China to Regulate Internet Map Publishing

hackingbear writes "After text, pictures, and videos, China starts regulating Internet map publishing (here is the google translation.) The government believes that Internet maps can represent the state's sovereignty and its political and diplomatic positions in the international community — and consequently, inaccurate maps could harm national interests and dignity, produce bad political influences, reveal national secrets and harm national security, in addition to harming consumer interests. So from now on, publishing maps would require approval and (yet another) license from the state survey bureau. That means Google, Yahoo, etc., need to remove China from the map; or maybe they just pay up some officials and their agents to acquire yet another license. And our newest 80Gbps DPI monsters need to be upgraded to identify maps together with porn."

What does this mean?

Does Google need to pay to use the map that China produced, or to even show the country on a map that anyone produced? Are they licensing the map itself, or the representation of China's IP of the shape and layout of the country itself? If it's the latter, that's just... ill.

What happens if they just ignore their weirdo regulations and continue to publish the maps? How about just not in China?

A better article

This link has more info: http://tech.sina.com.cn/i/2008-03-25/21362099485.shtml [sina.com.cn]

Google licensed PRC geographic data from Beijing United Map Technology Limited (just a guess translation) who has a electronic map service license from the National Survey Department (apparently the prime driver for the regulatory initiative). The reporter speculates that the regulatory initiave may be related to the competition between Beijing United Map Technology with its duopoly competitior, Beijing Map Advanced Technology.

The official reasons given by the Deputy Director of the National Survey Department are:
1. Inaccurate boundaries show parts of PRC as soil of other nations
2. Omission of south sea islands (disputed islands with Japan)
3. Omission of Taiwan or labeling of Taiwan as independent
4. Inaccurate boundaries between administrative regions and dissemination of important geographical data
5. Annotation of sensitive, nonpublic, or national security information on the map.
          (Think of Dick Cheney's house...)

Part of Google's objection is that there are no clear laws pertaining to online maps in PRC. Thus the regulators are not acting on a solid foundation. There remains wide spread confuson on what exactly is required by these regulations.

As for Google's choices, they are actively protesting this initiative. But unless they prevail or pull out of China they would be subjected to their laws and likely to adapt to publishing only authorized versions of PRC maps.

Re:A better article

Your summary, which explains how this is a dispute about the use of data which was provided by a Chinese source, is much too focused and accurate, and prevents people from the ceremonial outrage which constitute their 2 minute hate against China. You should be ashamed of yourself.

How in the hell

Now how am I supposed to get from my house to Shanghai? I need those directions dammit.

Fort Knox on U. S. maps

I wish I had tracked this a little more closely, but for a couple of decades ordinary maps of Kentucky in atlases like Rand McNally and Hammond did not indicate the existence of the city of Fort Knox, despite showing far smaller cities.

It was actually a little bit exciting to see the map in Ian Fleming's novel Goldfinger, showing the United States Bullion Depository located at the intersection of Bullion Boulevard and Gold Vault Road. In those days before Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] and Google Earth, this gave at least one reader frisson of forbidden information. I wondered whether Fleming would be the target of any mysterious reprisals for publishing it.

Maps have propaganda value

If people get used to seeing "The Republic of Taiwan" instead of the "Shitty, Upstart Province of Formosa (or China's name for it) that Dares Act Independent," then that would give people the expectation that Taiwan is a sovereign country. If China goes to war, then it's not to reclaim a break-away province that has been acting like a renegade, but rather just another conquest like Iraq on Kuwait.

Maps do have real political value behind them. There are a lot of people in Mexico that would love to see the reconquista of the Southwest, and the Mexican government has said in the past that expanding its territory back into the original territory is its goal. That's actually why the map that Absolut did in their advertising campaign was so controversial in the U.S.

Spot on

That means Google, Yahoo, etc., need to remove China from the map

A much better option than going along with what China wants them to publish. Sometimes the best course is to let jackasses make jackasses of themselves.

rj

English language article from CCTV

CCTV's English language service ran this article a couple of months back: http://www.cctv.com/english/20080410/101774.shtml [cctv.com]

I can see the bookmarks now...

"On this spot in 1989, nothing happened".

Here, thar be dragons!

Ahh... but if we remove China from the map, we can actually have an excuse to put "Here, thar be dragons" on the map!

Re:

Alternatively, Google et al could highlight Tibet (imperial pink, perhaps?) and tell Hu Da Fuk and all his friends where to get off.

Anyone who even slightly agrees with this measure is a pawn of the fascists, and would be better off sharing a forum with Go

Re:...national secrete...

I know China is potentially representing a LOT of money. But, at some point, don't we just say "Fuck China"...and all the rules and regulations and monitoring they are wanting to impose on a system that has worked just fine without them for decades?

If they want to wall off themselves from the world, then let them. If they don't want to use what a company from another country is doing, fine just block it if you want to (or can) but, quit bitching about everything we free people do outside your fucking borders.

They want it both ways

They want to kinda wall themselves from the world but still be part of it.

If we had governments representing people, then the UN would would have told China to where to go a long time ago and China would have become something Cuba could laugh at.

But instead, we have governments representing corporations. (we elect them but the corps control them) To ignore china because of their fascist ways is not good for the corporate bottom line and the CEO's annual bonus. So the corps will bend and jump through hoops until they control China as well. When that happens, we will have become Star Trek's Ferengi race. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi)

Re:They want it both ways

"China has resources we need if we are to have the standard if living "we" want. (and by we I mean first and foremost you and myself)"

Actually, they (along with India) are rapidly sucking up resources we need...mainly, oil.

We are having to compete with them on this, and I think this will soon get nasty. China holds so much of our debt (US), that they will likely start using this as leverage against us in oil concerns.

Frankly, I'd like to get off China's 'teet' with regard to the resources I think you're alluding to...cheap labor.

I'm quite worried about not having any more manufacturing in the US any longer. That is a national security issues if I've ever heard one. It matters not if we have all the energy needs we need...if our suppliers of goods cut us off...we're toast.

As another poster mentioned...I'd gladly start paying 10%-20% more for most of my goods if they were made/raised in the US. I'd much rather pay a bit of a premium to support the local manufacturer and local food grower. I'm lucky that I live in LA, where we get such an abundance of fresh seafood from the Gulf....but, when I travel the US, I'm shocked to see how muchh seafood and other animal protein foods are coming in from China, or other countries, rather than our own, where we often have higher quality, and regulations on anti-biotics, drugs and pesticides that can be used.

But...that's a whole other rant....

Re:...national secrete...

...quit bitching about everything we free people do outside your fucking borders.

I don't remotely support the way China's oppressing their people, but criticizing this move as "outside your fucking borders" is off-base. They're restricting what comes into their country, just like almost every country in the world does. If you live somewhere with no copyright laws, start hosting movies that can be downloaded in the U.S. and see if it goes ignored. The only difference is that China is even more oppressive and aggressive than the MPAA and their goal is to enslave their citizens, not just suck them dry.

Re:...national secrete...

Except, there is possibly different ways to say 'Fuck China':

1) Publish and push data all the way into their living rooms until they cut off the Internet for their people completely.

2) Publish in a flippant way: publish maps but when it comes to China put a graphic that says sensored by assholes in China.

3) Publish a website that shows ALL the stuff that China does not want their citizens to see/read/hear so that the entire rest of the world can see/read/hear it and know what Chinese government types have censored from their own people.

4) invite the Chinese government to come make the rest of the world sensor material for their benefit. I'm not saying war is good, but if you intend to tell them to fuck off they will either hide behind the wall or respond to that message.

Personally, I believe that no one should be buying ANYTHING made in China. Yes, I know it's next to impossible but I would spend an extra 10% to support companies from my country that make competing products to Chinese products.

The entire China issue is completely out of hand, and the best way IMO to stop it is to stop dealing with them. Stop buying from them. Stop selling to them. Do not go to the Olympics either. Don't watch the Olympics. In fact, I say we censor China altogether from the world's information, business dealings etc. Don't let them invest in anything anywhere else in the world. Lock up their assets that reside outside of China, close their Embassies... everything.

Yes, that will eventually hurt their people but it is their people that must overthrow the government in charge at this point.

Re:Can they do this?

Can a country do this?

Well, considering the Dick Cheney had his house obscured... I suppose the answer is yes. Actually with Google maps the US government has a number of areas blacked out for security reasons.

Re:Can they do this?

Actually, it was possible in US because Google is US based.

China will be able to pull this off only because Google wants to do business there.

Let this be a reason for those who talk about "do no evil" and "Google" in same sentence (except me :) ), as if it is some person and not a corporation whose only thing they are looking for is more money for their shareholders.

Re:And google can move abroad

...the US gov would just get one of the ministers in sweden to lean on their mate in the police force and raid their offices there.

And thereby show that the US IS as bad as china and that, yes, other countries DO tell other companies what to do with online maps.

The US government has problems, but can somebody explain to me why stories that have absolutely nothing to do with the US government still attract US gov flames? This story is about China's oppression and mentions the fact that it may have an impact on a couple of US businesses. How is the US government involved any more than Holland's or France's? Yes, most of Google's censored map areas are in the US, but other countries have made similar requests and had them granted. I'm sure China could too. But that's a whole different ball game than requiring licensing and approval for posting maps...

Ugh - Maybe I should just filter out ACs...

Re:Can they do this?

considering the Dick Cheney had his house

I think you either left out a word or a comma.

Re:Can they do this?

As Google maps are satellite based, how inaccurate can they be?

The borders go onto the map after the satellite takes the picture. Like, say, the border between China and Tibet.

rj

Re:Can they do this?

I do not believe the satellite based images are the main issue here.

The Chinese government objects to maps that depict certain regions as being separate sovereign countries, such as Tibet and Taiwan, which the Chinese government holds are both part of China.

This would be similar to a map being published that showed Alaska as a separate country, or as part of Canada, as opposed to it being part of the USA.

Re:

As Google maps are satellite based, how inaccurate can they be?

Oh, they show an accurate picture of the geography.

But, political things like borders and sensitive areas are a different matter.

I don't believe this is the first time a country has objected to

Re:

Basically, they do not want any maps to be available on the Net to their own people (or anyone else, but that is impossible) which contain such counter-revolutionary ideas such as an independent Taiwan(even if only de facto).

No problem. Just show all of C

Controlling the truth

Remember, in China (and, increasingly more places), the truth is what they tell you it is. Their view on how information is handed out is a little different than ours...

Actually, the trend is going the other way. Governments have always tried to control the truth. What is changing is our knowledge of their actions.
They aren't doing it more, they're just being caught doing it more often.