Monster Cables Pushes Around the Wrong Small Company 572
Alien54 writes "Audioholics has a fun read regarding a recent legal dustup involving Monster Cables. The well-known (some might say notorious) cabling company sent a cease and desist letter to Blue Jeans Cable over a supposed patent violation. What the Monster folks couldn't have known was that Blue Jeans president Kurt Denke used to be a lawyer. His response is as humorous as it is thorough. ' Let me begin by stating, without equivocation, that I have no interest whatsoever in infringing upon any intellectual property belonging to Monster Cable. Indeed, the less my customers think my products resemble Monster's, in form or in function, the better ... If there is more than one such connector design in actual use by Monster Cable as to which appropriation of trade dress is alleged, of course, I will require this information for each and every such design. On the basis of what I have seen, both in the USPTO documents you have sent and the actual appearance of Monster Cable connectors which I have observed in use in commerce, it does not appear to me that Monster Cable is in a position to advance a nonfrivolous claim for infringement of these marks.'"
The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Insightful)
They're just going to harass someone else now. They don't really care that much. The basic business plan here is "threaten to sue", "threaten some more", "If target refuses to settle then give up, else settle". They know full well that some people are going to call their bluff. He just happened to do it in a very long winded, wordy way that has saved them a lot of time and effort.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Insightful)
I would say Monster's days of running around suing competitors will be drawing to a close soon.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
I about shit my pants I laughed so hard at this.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Informative)
Wonderful. Monster Cable hates America!!!!
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Informative)
But, but it wasn't Monster Cable International, Ltd, that issued him with the letter and claim. It was Monster in the US, so keen to litigate that they did something they had no onus to do ("on behalf of") - they completely forgot that their corporate shell game had given the patents to a company in Bermuda, and that they had no right to claim patent infringement when they weren't the patent owners.
More clear now?
"That, that's not ours! We don't have to pay tax on it! Oh, wait, you're using this thing of ... uh ... not ours ... and we ... uh ... they ... can't have that!"
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Fucker.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Insightful)
My favorite quote:
Good to see a little guy who seriously intends to go not only to trial but to final judgement against a big patent bully. They definitely picked the wrong person to pick on.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:4, Interesting)
But it's really good to read!
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:4, Funny)
Go ass themselves?
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, there's a much shorter lawyers' way to tell somebody to do that.
"We refer you to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram."
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Dear Monster Lawyers"
Priceless!
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Insightful)
But really, you're right -- threatening their tax shelter was a masterstroke.
My favorite quote (Score:5, Interesting)
Bravo. Just fucking bravo.
Re:My favorite quote (Score:4, Interesting)
So in the end, he had to settle cases he desperately wanted to fight. He was a big part of the reason we got involved in patent reform several years ago.
Morgan
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:4, Interesting)
[...]
Tax laws are riddled with loopholes and investment firms make lots of money figuring out how to work within the rules.
Basically, by questioning the "arm's length" relationship between the two entities in their licensing agreements, he's saying that they'd better make sure their financial house is in order before bringing him to court.
Then again, I run away screaming at the prospect of having to learn corporate tax law, so I may be too trusting of his oblique threat.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Informative)
Tax law is the only area of the law where a lawyer is expected to obtain
a speciality post doctorate degree (that is another advanced degree above
and beyond the usual JD) just so that you can be considered qualified to
START practicing in it.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:4, Interesting)
However. He then shows that they've cocked up once, by forgetting to send the patent infringement claim from the Bermuda company that actually owns those patents. Do they really feel the rest of their ducks are correctly aligned, should the IRS come knocking?
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Insightful)
The threat here is not "you're going to jail", but "we're going to expose you to political ridicule for not passively bending over and paying whatever the government demand."
If you don't consider this method as a part of your tax planning, you're paying more than you need to. As Judge Learned Hand said, "Anyone may arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible, everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right; for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands. Taxes are an enforceable action, not a voluntary contribution."
Helvering vs Gregory
60 Fed (2d) 809
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind PWNED (Score:3, Informative)
I believe the proper iSlang is PWNED!
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, notice how he replied on the last day of the two week period Monster's lawyers gave him. This, combined with the number of requests for clarification he made, demonstrates that he will ensure any actual court proceedings drag on for as long as possible.
He sure as hell didn't blink.
Re:The word "owned" comes to mind (Score:4, Funny)
Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Informative)
Performance of audio systems is not heavily affected by cables, if only the size of the wires is adequate.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Didn't somebody do a "golden ear" A-B test that determined that Monster speaker cable was no better than an extension cord with the connectors cut off?
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Informative)
That's hardly what I would call a reliable source of information, and yet people continue to perpetuate the mean as truth because it appeals to their pre-existing notions.
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
By the way, this isn't the first time Monster Cables
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.electronichouse.com/article/the_truth_about_high_end_cables/C29 [electronichouse.com]
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Quality matters for some high-speed cables. (Score:5, Insightful)
Amusingly, for many years Monster stayed away from the types of cables where quality matters, like VGA cables. VGA cables have a high-bandwidth analog signal, and long (10m or so) VGA cables have transmission-line type problems, where mismatches or crosstalk result in ghosting or blur at the monitor. For short tables, it's not a big deal, but as length increases, it matters. There are lots of crap VGA cables out there. Still, above $15 for 10m, you're overpaying.
HDMI cables have to carry 340MHz, so they're transmission lines. There's a certification process, and if the cable passed it, it should be OK. There are phony HDMI cables out there that don't pass the spec, but all certified cables should work equally well.
There's something to be said for gold-plated connectors, especially for something that's frequently unplugged, but the cost of the gold is trivial.
Re:Quality matters for some high-speed cables. (Score:4, Informative)
Gold plated ends are a sham, the gold wears through so fast (because it's barely plated on to begin with) it's not funny and the brass underneath it looks like gold so you dont know. The real high end stuff are solid nickel connections.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Most of the other sellers offer it for $2 with $3 shipping, if you prefer...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Monster continues to charge up towards $100
Actually they aren't the biggest thieves, how about $5900 for 1m of low-bandwidth data cable [thecableco.com]? It puzzles me somewhat that no one has sued the so called high-end audio cable industry for fraud and false advertising.
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, you can buy a DEFECTIVE HDMI cable. One that actually works will - quite simply - work.
Second, error correction is meant to fix
Digital systems have very specific signal s
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Mabye urs r, but mine hav obvius signl 2 noiz isues. It muzt b teh cabels, and not ne problams with are skool sistems.
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:4, Informative)
There is one Monster product, however, that was worth the purchase. I sought an FM modulator and while none that I tried had any problems with reception, the several I tried before the Monster unit had awful, flat sound quality. In this case the premium was for a superior product, not just a name.
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:4, Insightful)
Performance of audio systems is not heavily affected by cables, if only the size of the wires is adequate.
But yeah, there are standing offers out there from a number of sources for anyone who can consistently double-blind ABX the difference between various "high-end" cables and much cheaper large gauge copper wires.
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Informative)
Now, that's really for analog signals... As for digital, it's not really a concern. A $15 HDMI or DVI cable is just as good as a $85 HDMI cable, assuming they're both rated for the same frequency response and distance (HDMI has several classifications, and it CAN make a difference).
As for fiber cables, light is light. A thicker, stronger shell simply helps protect you from over bending the cable and refracting the beam, but it adds no shielding or signal quality improvement of any kind, and in fact, the fiber core itself must be a very specific size in microns. Changing this size like you do in ordinary cables is not optional.
If you have a high end system, increasing cable thickness, adding better cable contacts, and improving shielding can be important, and can improve audio and video quality. On the other hand, unless you're running cables across power lines, very close to speakers, close to tube TVs, or over long distances, Monster offers no "discernable" differences vs their half priced competitors.
That said never use the cheap shit cables that actually come in the box. Allways buy quality replacements, and ensure the connectors are made from materials that don't corrode (i.e. not copper, silver, or aluminum) gold contacts are great, platinum is not worth the expense. In most cases you'll need new cables anyway just to make the distance between devices as 3' is almost never enough, but don't buy cheap unshielded cables ever. Allways look for decent stuff.
When buying a stereo or speakers, look to buy models that support screw on connections or tightening rings for the speaker wire. The cheap little clip style slots, like you typically find on the back of cheaper speakers and all-in-one stereo units do not provide a sufficient contact surface for 100 watt and higher outputs.
As for filtering, modern home theater equipment is more computer than TV or stereo, and this stuff is VERY sensitive to low quality poewr. A surge protector is WORTHLESS! You need power filtration with real time voltage regulation. Monster does a good job providing very high quality filtering systems for as little as $200-300. If you have high def, a suround sound stereo, a PS3 or xbox360, keep this in mind. 97% of all electronic failure is the result of low or inconsitent power. Surge protectors only stop massive oversurges (typically over 160 volts). Damage to computer electronics cn occur at voltage below 104 or above 116. Do your lights ever flicker in your house? Especially when your AC turns on or when your fridge kicks in? If so, GO BUY A POWER FILTER for every digital device in your house!!!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... (Score:5, Funny)
LOL!
Those are probably one of the biggest scams yet from Monster.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Mostly true, but quality is worth paying for.
Gold plating will help resist corrosion. Thicker cables are also more likely to resist breaking. For line-level audio & video stuff, more shielding is better, especially for long runs and near 120V lines. Also the connectors (and the wires where they enter the connectors) is the place most likely to break, so premium connectors with nice strain relief
Once again... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, since when is slashdot in competition with them? If I want to read stupid stories (surprised all the legal talk didn't scare the farkoids) and even worse comments, I will go to fark/reddit/digg. I come to
Amen, brother, Amen (Score:5, Interesting)
And since then,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Layne
Re:Amen, brother, Amen (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Once again... (Score:4, Funny)
I, for one, welcome our new unintimidated former lawyer CEO of a cable manufacturer overlord.
Or, perhaps:
In Soviet Russia, former lawyer CEOs sue YOU!!!
Or maybe even
1. Set up cable company
2. Threaten lawsuits against other cable companies in existence
3. Get settlements on all but one.
4. Get bitchslapped by former lawyer CEO of said company.
5. ????
6. Pwned!!!!
Re:Once again... (Score:4, Funny)
From TFA (Score:5, Funny)
Re:From TFA (Score:5, Funny)
Re:From TFA (Score:5, Interesting)
But either way, I'm glad he's sticking up for himself, and not just himself but making it public. Others will catch on, I hope, and be able to use similar arguments and techniques to evaluate settling versus taking a stand.
Re:From TFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:From TFA (Score:4, Informative)
What will piss them off, of course, is that the letter has been made public. But that's his perogative.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If Monster doesn't, again IANAL, but doesn't Denke (the CEO of the small company) have a claim against monster for threatening frivolous litigation? Maybe even for anti-comp
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Summary... (Score:5, Funny)
The mention of similarity between my company and yours makes me throwup in my mouth a little. Your threats are empty and vague. You provided no details to your patent hissyfit.
If you're actually attempting to prove you own a patent on the RCA connector, then fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
Sincerely,
Kurt Denke
Re:Summary... (Score:5, Insightful)
A shorter answer (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A shorter answer (Score:5, Funny)
This is exhibit "A" ..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is exhibit "A" ..... (Score:4, Funny)
This is someone attempting to bully using the patent system, it is not the fault of the patent system at all.
I would argue that these kind of people would threaten under some other pretense.
Classic Small-Guy Shakedown (Score:3, Insightful)
Step 1: Giant company sees small company as a real or imagined threat.
Step 2: Initiate patent or Trademark litigation.
Step 3: Repeat step 2 until small company is sunk under a mountain of legal bills.
Step 4: Profit!
Obligatory... (Score:3, Funny)
This sounds familiar (Score:5, Interesting)
I will begin by addressing your trademark/trade dress claim. You have referred to two trademark registrations, and have attached some printouts from the USPTO system but the depiction of the marks on the drawings provided is small and indistinct, making it difficult to determine exactly what the alleged resemblance is, and I need further information from you.
The world needs more Kurt Denkes (Score:5, Insightful)
And we need them in a serious way. People who know their stuff, know what the legal system is supposed to be used for, and stand up for themselves in a positive way.
I hope we see more small companies and individuals do this in the future.
Summary Missed Best Paragraph (Score:3, Informative)
When I was more naive (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:When I was more naive (Score:5, Insightful)
Ahhh, that was joyfull (Score:5, Funny)
I think I have a new rule, right after "never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!" "Never challenge a former litigator who misses his old job."
This is poetry (Score:3, Insightful)
Although it may have taken some time to write this he absolutely ensures that Monster will never mess with him again and decreases the chances of Monster going after anyone in a similar fashion. He has done in probably less than a couple of hours what would normally take months of messy litigation.
This guy is a hero.
Uhm.... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Uhm.... (Score:5, Informative)
Porcupine (Score:5, Funny)
Calling the bluff (Score:5, Interesting)
The main thing to keep in mind is that such patent infringement claims are mostly bluff. Sending a letter to a company claiming patent infringement is a relatively cheap thing to do, and might result in a competitor discontinuing a product or paying a license fee. But responding to such a letter in a coherent, technically competent, and determined manner is often enough for the patent holder to back off. They don't want a legal battle any more than you do.
Indeed, if you can make a case for prior art then the patent holders will really want to avoid a fight, for such a battle might invalidate their patent.
Looking for a job? (Score:5, Funny)
Good cheap cables... (Score:5, Informative)
My new Hero....Monster BitchSlapper (Score:4, Interesting)
Two things. I've had some high-powered lawyers across the table from me on 3 occasions and so far, I'm 3-0. There IS an assumption these big firms make along the lines of threaten and terrify people until they give it up. Sadly, that works pretty well...until someone like Mr. Denke comes along and says "wait just a damn minute!"
In my most "fun" case, I leased a new Jeep Cherokee for business use in 1984. I had it for exactly 35 days, several of which the Jeep spent in the dealer's service department. The thing was a TOTAL lemon. The first time I tapped the horn, the entire button, retaining ring, and spring flew off. The first cassette I popped into the "premium" audio system was eaten so badly the unit broke. Rear window defroster...no electrical connection. And so on. On day 35, I picked the Jeep for the 4th or 5th time...in a month...and discovered they hadn't fixed the latest problem, just ordered parts, and I was to "call every few days to see if the parts have arrived". I walked into the Leasing Manager's office, handed him the keys, notified him I was surrendering the vehicle under the terms and conditions of the lease in the Section for Early Lease Termination. I agreed to pay $900 to get out of the lease as the agreement stated a 6% charge on a 1st year termination. OK, $15,000 Jeep....that's $900. I walked out, got a cab, and bought a Nissan truck the next day.
A few weeks later, I get served. The leasing company WHOLESALED a new Jeep that had 400 miles of driving on it for $9500 and presented me with the difference...about $6000. And placed an entry with the credit bureaus that I had "defaulted" on a loan. I countersued the dealership, their employee, and the leasing company. We went to deposition...myself and my small-town lawyer...and sat down with about 15 people from the other side. Other than myself and the lady typing, it was all lawyers. The lead guy, "Rudy", did everything but punch me. I smiled, we presented our evidence, and left. In the hall, the dealership lawyers offered to pay the leasing company themselves if I would drop the countersuit against them. In the end, I paid them nothing. They even paid MY attorney. I still smile every day or so about that one.
2nd thing: Monster cables are NOT very good. I have an extensive background in electronics and have made thousands of cables of every description. I also play bass in a working band and run 3 basses during a big show. I tried a Monster Instrument Cable...at a premium price...and found it to be trash. A handmade "Radio Shack" special worked as well. I now use Planet Waves cutout cables and have never had a problem. In the studio, I'm going straight to the board and listening to the mix with Sennheiser phones and the PW cables sound as good as anything I've made or used. And before the "audiophiles" jump in with the "warm" and "bright" crap, MY former life was as an engineer for a major A/V firm that does work from coast-to-coast. Wire is wire. 12 gauge copper wire in bulk from the hardware store is just as good as the horrendously more expensive Monster Cable stuff. I only use the PW cables for my basses because of the cutout switch makes instrument changes on stage a QUIET snap and I'm too lazy to build my own....yet.
RTFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Perfect! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Monster Cable versus wire coat hangers (Score:5, Informative)
The Consumerist did no such comparison. Rather, a reader sent them a 4 year old post from a random dude on another forum, which the Consumerist quoted and posted, turning it into a popular Slashdot meme.
Groupthink at work, gotta love it. The burden of proof is always non-existent when it backs up your pre-existing notions of truth.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The article gives plenty of detail on their testing methodology, assuming the original poster didn't make it up, and nothing posted on the Internet can easily prove or disprove that possibility. Thus, take it with the same grain of salt you take with everything else on the Internet.
Re:I'll be sure to .. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
The 5 seconds of silence on the other end of the line before the "Uuuh, I think I need to talk to my supervisor" was classic. Took them only a few more minutes before all those horrible problems with my mortgage just vanished.
Since then I've been a lot more accepting of lawyers- calling down the legal napalm on those assholes was one of the most fun things I've ever done.