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Class Action Suit Against RIAA Can Proceed
Posted by
Zonk
on Thursday January 17, @02:03PM
from the nothing-but-net dept.
from the nothing-but-net dept.
fourohfour writes "Ars Technica is running a story on Tanya Andersen, who was awarded attorney fees in September of last year after the RIAA dropped their case against her. The RIAA subsequently appealed that award, but a US District Court judge yesterday not only upheld the award, but also upheld the dismissal of her counterclaims without prejudice. They may now be heard as part of a malicious prosecution lawsuit against the RIAA. Andersen is seeking class action status for her lawsuit, so that anyone else who has not engaged in illegal file sharing but has been threatened with legal action by the RIAA may join in. This is the case that alleges that the RIAA attempted to contact Andersen's then eight-year-old daughter under false pretenses without her permission."
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RIAA Drops Tanya Andersen Case 164 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "After 2 years, the RIAA has finally dropped its longstanding case against disabled single mother Tanya Andersen in Oregon, Atlantic v. Andersen. The dismissal (pdf) relates merely to the RIAA's claims against Ms. Andersen, and does not relate to her (a) claim for attorneys fees or (b) counterclaims against the RIAA, which are presently before the Court on a motion to dismiss. The counterclaims were first interposed in December 2005. This is the same case in which the RIAA insisted on taking a face to face deposition of a 10 year old girl. Prior to the case, neither the mother nor the child had ever even heard of file sharing."
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Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
/. readers are excluded then (Score:5, Funny)
Counts us all out then
Re:/. readers are excluded then (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:/. readers are excluded then (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I get your overall drift, but this doesn't follow. Being presumed innocent has nothing to do with what
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Gotcha.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually in most areas, if not all, you merely have to pay a percentage of the bail amount set by the judge. I believe 10% is the going rate.
I'm from Oregon where they don't have bail bondsmen and you simply pay your percent to the jail itself. So I'm n
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you wish to protect the rights of the masses, then you must accept that you'll take some losses as a result. If losses are not acceptable, then take away the rights. Only pr
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:/. readers are excluded then (Score:4, Insightful)
There is a difference between jail and prison, despite the way these terms are used interchangeably. In general, prison is punishment for convicted criminals.
If you think about it a bit, it seems very difficult to create a system of justice whereby "presumed innocent" criminals can be permitted to roam free during the weeks or months of their trial. Crimes occur. Someone commits them. The chap you found may not actually be guilty. But if your policy is that you cannot apprehend someone until a court conviction, what guarantee do you have that the accused will stick around for the trial? The policy of arrest/jail/bail may have false positives. But a system of never putting someone into jail into convicted seems horribly naive. Either you don't let them know you're "proving them guilty" and just catch them when you've done so (which doesn't provide for a defense) or you let them know they're a suspect and politely request they don't bolt for Mexico and please don't kill anyone else while they're gathering evidence.
Having said that, we must have safeguards for Habeus Corpus and the right to a speedy trial for this to work. Otherwise, we devolve into a system whereby the police (or corrupt leaders) do indeed judge you guilty (or otherwise deserving of punishment/pain) and toss you into jail where you rot. Think "Les Miserables".
This is why the recent diminishments of Habeus Corpus and the fact that several people (US citizens apprehended in the US) have spent YEARS in Guantanamo Bay before any charges were filed are so incredibly troubling.
In principle, your view that we're "guilty until proven innocent" seems quite wrong. In practice, it also seems we're sliding somewhat in that direction.
Re:/. readers are excluded then (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:/. readers are excluded then (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is a good thing, since it would be evidence against all of us.
No, I'm not worried.
Seriously.
Nope (Score:2)
Firstly I'm in the UK, the RIAssA et al can stuff themselves.
Secondly I don't share music. (Yep, that's a full stop!) I'm able to afford to buy any that I take a fancy to. Haven't bought a CD for almost a year now though, prefer to switch on the radio.
oohhh yeeesss... but... (Score:5, Interesting)
End Result (Score:5, Funny)
RIAA loses. Everyone gets a coupon worth $1 off the latest (DRM laden) Britney Spears CD.
Re:End Result (Score:5, Funny)
But if they lose, why do we get punished?
Re: (Score:2)
But if they lose, why do we get punished?
Re:End Result (Score:5, Funny)
bin Laden's rapper brother?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Just ever so slightly more than the lawyers will charge for their services...
Re:oohhh yeeesss... but... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a great question. Will the member companies use the RIAA like an umbrella company saying that the liability is the RIAA's or will they take responsibility for filing these frivolous suits?
More to the point, these suits are filed as Record Label vs. some poor joe not as RIAA vs. right? This case is Atlantic vs. Anderson, is Atlantic responsible for the damages? It would certainly seem to me that the RIAA cant claim all the liability when Atlantic's name is on the suit. Any Lawyers out there who know whether the RIAA can be used as an umbrella to protect the label from liability in this kind of litigation?
Re:oohhh yeeesss... but... (Score:4, Interesting)
The way I see it is Atlantic and the RIAA have two choices:
1) Atlantic takes full responsibility for being a part of an organization that brings spurious claims to court and is the only business to be responsible for damages.
2) The RIAA attempts to intercede, or Atlantic tries to shift blame towards the RIAA, and forces all members of the RIAA to be culpable due to collusion.
Just one last note, the RIAA cannot bring the cases against the alleged copy-right violators because they do not have standing to sue as they are not directly harmed financially by the "infringement". If they did have standing to sue in place of their member businesses then that would make the argument for collusion, price fixing, and monopolization essentially set in stone.
Forget the end result (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
RIAA needs counseling (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Everybody knows that no amount of counseling will cure a person, unless that person's a congressman, then he'll go through re
What did they say to her daughter? (Score:5, Funny)
Hi, Sally, this is Mr. Nice calling, is your mommy home? No? Good... I mean, uh, well then can I just talk to you for a minute instead? Tell me Sally, how would you feel about living with a foster family after we toss your mommy in the clink? I mean, she's subjecting you to gangsta rap, for Heaven's sakes, we'd be doing you a favor!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:What did they say to her daughter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What did they say to her daughter? (Score:4, Informative)
Hope this opens the door for Extortion charges (Score:5, Insightful)
Then they should hammer the media companies on conspiracy charges because they are the ones knowingly financing the RIAAs shenanagins, that have already been proven illegal.
Ok, what gives??? (Score:5, Funny)
We have an article about how a class action suit can proceed against the RIAA. Scroll down a bit and there is a story about Microsoft opening up their binary formats. For free. Download them from their webpage. Scroll down a bit more and there is an article about a trial finally being set to see what SCO owes Novell.
What gives?
Did I slip through some wormhole in space and land in a universe where wishes are granted? Is it April 1st? Next thing I expect to see is a release date for Duke Nukem Forever.
I may just buy some lottery tickets on the way home tonight, just to see if the streak continues.
Re: (Score:2)
Time to check hells thermostat maybe..
Another Misleading Title (Score:5, Informative)
The Battle of New Orleans (Score:4, Funny)
The only way the class action suit against the RIAA can make any progress is if they sue for One novemdecillion dollars!!
Just the name of the number itself inspires awe.
Think about it.
Is it too much to hope for criminal charges? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I expect the mother to ask her child testify in court and the 8 yr old stating a male voice called her under false pretenses and "solicited" her. She do
Next, on To Catch a Predator... (Score:4, Funny)
RIAA: Hello little girl...
Chris Hansen: I'm Chris Haaaaansen
All Of A Sudden... (Score:4, Funny)
Unless, of course, the settlement is 5 coupons for CD's.
Coupons? For CDs? Never. (Score:2)
Class elements (Score:5, Informative)
A court will certify a class proceeding where there is:
1. An identifiable group
2. With a cause of action that has a triable issue
3. With an appropriate class representative
4. Whom all have common issues
5. and Whose conflict is best resolved by a class action.
In this case, on 1:
Is the identifiable group people who have been sued by the RIAA? The more it is a subset of individuals who have not just been sued by the RIAA, but a subset of that group that has suffered other behaviour and that other behaviour is key to the group, the less identifiable the group is (so to speak).
On 2:
Is there a cause of action for just being sued by the RIAA? If everything that the plaintiff pleads is true, and this would not give rise to a legal judgment, then the action may be dismissed at certification. This is often just a screener to certification of frivolous claims, and some jurisdictions do not have it.
On 3:
Is this lady the best class representative? Can she fund the litigation (in part, though not to the end)? Does she have any interests averse to that of the class?
On 4:
If the case requires more details of how the RIAA treated each individual, then there's an argument that the individual issues predominate over the common ones.
The stronger the case that the RIAA bringing a suit against any individual gives rise to legal remedy,the more the RIAA had a documented pattern of behaviour, the better.
On 5:
If a class proceeding is not the "best" way to resolve a conflict, sometimes it will not be certified. Alternatives including bringing a test case, individual cases, and alternative dispute resolution.
Again, the tests vary significantly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but that's the general framework of the hurdle that the plaintiff will have to get over in order to certify her action as a class action.
I wonder (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the only fair solution... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It'll never do any good! (Score:4, Interesting)
IOW, this could be yet another nail in the coffin of the RIAA. The bright side is that it could lead to a wider variety of marketing schemes, competition, and better prices for the consumer. The dark side is that it will likely just turn into a series of buyouts until we wind up dealing with the 'Ma Bell' of the recording labels that owns everything that used to be other major labels. But that's capitalism for ya, surf on.
-Rick
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
Ha, what do you want ? That was expected.
What the RIAA should do is throw us all off guard and say
"you're right! fair use! we're wrong, you're right! here take our ill-gotten gains and here have our Samauri sword and please please please be swift and merciful!
Then everyone would be completely confused, erase their file sharing software and run to Wal-mart to buy CDs.