Store Says DRM Causes 3 of 4 Support Calls 155
Carter writes "Ars Technica is reporting that Musicload, one of Europe's largest movie stores, has found that 75% of its customer support problems are caused by DRM. Users have frequent problems using the music that they have purchased, which has led Musicload to try selling independent label music without DRM. Artists choosing to abandon DRM in favor of good old-fashioned MP3 have seen 40% growth in sales since December. Good to see someone in the business both 'gets it' and is willing to do something about it."
These Are Desired Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
I submit to you the anecdotal evidence of my sister's "iPod." She purchased songs through iTMS and attempted to move the DRM'd files onto her SanDisk MP3 Player. Then she wondered why it didn't work. It didn't work because the files have digital rights management & only brand specific players will play it--and vice versa.
You know, right now iPods are probably the most popular portable music device. But I don't know of any other music download DRM services that they work with. So if some third party download service called Musicload is reporting that 75% of problem calls are DRM related, I'm going to wager that every single call went a little something like "Do you have an iPod?" "No." "I'm sorry, iPod doesn't support our DRM." (or the German equivalent). In fact, on their site, I don't see an iPod [musicload.de] as being supported.
I think a DRM standard that everyone adopts would avoid these issues but I don't forsee that happening in the future. It benefits Apple somewhat because they can have a great service or a great player and reap the market. I don't blame them, however, because they do a fine job on both ends. I am concerned about any sort of free market existing here.
In the end, the RIAA wants these problems. They don't want you docking a player with many computers and soaking up the files. They want one player associated with one computer associated with one account and any attempt to anything else should wipe everything off the face of the planet. Why? Money. Somehow the consumer no longer has a voice.
Re:These Are Desired Problems (Score:5, Informative)
From the Musicload site:
Auf Englisch (my translation):
IPod unfortunately does not support Microsoft's popular format, Windows Media Audio (WMA). Therefore, Musicload recommends that you buy a Mobile Player which can play WMA and MP3 formats.
Specifically, Musicload's offerings are in WMA unless they fall in the subset of non-DRM'd media now available -- so no iPods is right on the mark.
Re:These Are Desired Problems (Score:4, Insightful)
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Don't worry, a free market for this otherwise DRM'd material already exists. And they are selling their "warez" at bottom barrel prices!
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Re:These Are Desired Problems (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't buy anything with DRM. If there is DRM, I'm more likely to just get it from bit torrent or a Russian site. It will have much higher quality, too.
However, if you have good music and the money is going to you and I can get it simply via digital download, I'm all over that. I won't pay a dollar a song on iTunes and have never used that. For a buck a song, I might as well just go buy the CD and rip them myself so I don't have any DRM restrictions in the first place! But if you have unrestricted, quality MP3s available for a simple download (like Anders Manga, The Low, etc) I will gladly pay $10 or $12 an album and - quite recently - have a number of times.
I think this goes to support the growing swell of "I'm willing to pay if you're willing to give me what I want".
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I'm pretty sure that's how the free market has always worked. It is not a new thing.
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Why do people post stuff like this? Does it advance the discussion? Sure, you have a great attitude towards DRM and happy happy, but how does that solve anything *for the general population?*
Re:These Are Desired Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
http://defectivebydesign.org/ [defectivebydesign.org]
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It really shows how ignorant they are. I wonder if the people who crafted that letter have even read the DMCA?
Point 1 and 2 ignore the fact that if they don't DRM content, the provider will just say No. They won't even consider it until they have a sizable revenue history to look at the loss they wuld aquire if Apple stopped selling music and movies.
Point 3 would be bad becasue the safe harbor provision would go away, making ISP's liable for an
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The support phone call. Each and every one of them is like tick after tick after depressing tick of red ink.
C//
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We still do. We speak in the only language they understand. Money.
Speak with your wallets, not your voice.
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That's exactly why I haven't ever bought something from iTMS and won't buy DRM encumbered files. I still own the first CD I bought. It's a Herbie Hancock album that I bought over 21
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The truth is that the vast majority of music purchases don't last ten or twenty years. How did you know that CD would last so long? Nor do most people buy it with the expectation that they will even want to listen to it decades later. So, to be fair,
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We're talking about keeping the music in a playable form for decades. "Space-consuming" is meaningless in that context. At the very least, it's less meaningful than what "space-consuming" means in the context of any physical media. Furthermore, my post was mostly about why you probably won't need to do this at all.
Not only you are unable to make a backup, but you may not be able
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True, but after you borrowed your friend's CD player for an hour, you can easily play music on a tape or MD. If I can borrow my friend's computer with iTunes and transfer the movie to tape or DVD, this will solve all my problems.
Most products you buy do not have a guaranteed useful lifetime.
Don't know, most of mine come with a 3 year warranty. And after that, if they break down, I have an option to repair it myself or bring i
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The "consumer" has never had a voice, since they are just things whose job it is to consume whatever shit is getting pumped out.
Back when people were customers or, heaven forbid, *citizens* they did.
Hell, you even refer to yourself as a consumer. That's how far downhill we've come just in my lifetime. When I was a kid, I don't remember any business having the audacity and contempt to refer to the people whose custom their business depends on by such a derogatory te
Re:These Are Desired Problems (Score:4, Funny)
I can't wait for 2010. No more DRM and I'll have my flying stainless steal DeLorean!
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I dont get it. (Score:5, Funny)
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See? It's already in the Linux kernel!
Four? (Score:5, Funny)
The wrong person is "getting" it (Score:5, Insightful)
Woohoo. Great. Little happy dance. Big fucking deal.
They aren't the ones who are pushing DRM. They ahve it because without it they wouldn't get the major label tracks which (I presume) form the bulk of their income. This isn't hurting the labels who are requiring the DRM, its simply sqishing the middle players. Now, this is certainly better than just squishing the consumer, but it's still a far cry from leverage to affect change where the change can actually occur.
Re:The wrong person is "getting" it (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a huge deal. (Score:2)
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Thing is, they don't really have that much leverage against the labels because the labels have a monopoly on their products. You can't just go somewhere else and pay for the latest Beyonce hit like you can go buy corn or beef. Right now the retailers would prefer no DRM, because they think that would make them the most
Musicload, one of Europe's largest movie stores (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyway, I've returned a DVD because it wouldn't play on my computer. Not surprisingly, it was due to DRM. If the stores lose money trying to sell it, then they will stop carrying it.
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It sounded a lot better in the original German.
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More often than not, the answer is "Not very". And the training is "when in doubt, refer to company policy" - and I've seen plenty of examples in recent years where company policy is in complete contradiction to statutory rights.
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More often than not, the answer is "Not very". And the training is "when in doubt, refer to company policy" - and I've seen plenty of examples in recent years where company policy is in complete contradiction to statutory rights.
Yes, but in my experience if you know your ground they'll cave in. I've had just this problem with Asda (the UK Wal-Mart subsidiary) and I just kept asking to speak to somebody who could "override company policy and give me my statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002". The clerk on the counter eventually called the manager who gave me the refund.
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So I called the DTI, who told me to call consumer direct (on an 0870 number no less!). Consumer direct told me that because the goods were opened and not in a saleable condition, the vendor was not obliged to take them back.
I explained that the goods did not work with my equipment, but that didn't make any headway.
So I gave up.
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I don't believe their data (Score:3, Insightful)
As a side note: why don't the famous musicians dump their majors and start selling mp3s independently? I would suppose they'd earn much more.
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As for people not knowing what DRM is
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A label can dumb an artist. However how many bands do you know have switched labels?
none that I know of maybe someone else knows where to look.
The only thing left to do is to make DRM look bad. Which isn't that hard. heck just look at all the problems they are having trying to get HDCP to work properly.
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The problem is the bar to get into the field is high. Not only do you [normally] need talent, but you also need gear and people who know how to use the gear. unless you're sitting at a piano or playing an accoustic on your own it's fai
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However how many bands do you know have switched labels? none that I know of maybe someone else knows where to look.
Never heard of Paul McCartney? [dailymail.co.uk] While I may not like her work, I've heard of Jessica Simpson. [billboard.com]
These examples were found within 2 minutes of looking. Try checking a little more closely next time before you post.
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I'm not defending record companies here. They're crooks through and through, and have been for decades. They'll lie, steal and cheat at the drop o
Re:I don't believe their data (Score:5, Interesting)
As Dick Dale said:
This is a guy that's survived a shark bite, beaten cancer, and has been supporting himself playing music since the early 60's. Anyone who tells you that you need a major label to promote your work is either ignorant or actively trying to defraud you.
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Customer: "The song i downloaded doesn't work on my MP3 player!"
Support Person: (Thinking) "DRM again..."
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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...
I would agree with everything that you said if you change the word "go" to "start". As people have already stated it is very difficult for a new band to get access to equipment, recording time, media exposure etc without the help of a label. That is a large part of why new bands usually jump at the chance to join a label.
On the other hand there are a number of large bands that could potentially go independent now and do just fine. A prime example is Radiohead, who are in f
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I definitely agree that their control over production and distribution allows them to manipulate supply. But I'm not sure I see it on the demand side. Sure, they can make ads to try and get people interested in diamonds, but I don't see how they have any more control over demand than a non-cartel.
Am I missing something?
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Then why are french fries served underdone almost everywhere?
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Simply put, the user is too dumb to realize they even have a problem, let alone link it to DRM. Nobody knows what DRM even is, there is no awareness at all. 'nuff said.
Do you actually think the customers call support and tell them: "I have an incompatibility between the used DRM on file ABC and player XYZ, because the used DRM Coding BlaFasel v1.04.02 is not recognized by the player firmware 2.42!" If they had a clue like this they wouldn't call support in the first place.
No. The statistics come from the resolution put into the support ticket. And those resolution was found by the support people probably after lengthy discussions with the customer to find out what actual
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Rather, the average user goes "Why won't your fucking file work on my computer? What's wrong with you people? What a ripoff!" And then tech support gets to waste time and money trying to help them work around the problem.
I vaugely recall reading that the average tech support call costs the average company a total of around $2/minute (most of which is infrastructure and overhead, not the te
Could be a way to protest DRM (Score:5, Interesting)
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How is this informative? If you want to succeed in driving online music sales out of existence, which will in turn cause the RIAA to scream even more about piracy, and start slapping even more people with lawsuits, then great.
How about, if you don't like DRM, you don't purchase music from artists & labels which support DRM? Shift that money to indie labels & inde
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Which they still have to prove to sue people. If you have no music from the artists on that label on your computer, that's going to be pretty hard. Not to mention the fact that other indie labels reporting record profits will make it pretty hard to convince anybody with half a brain that piracy is rampant, and is destroying the entire recording industry. But even in spite
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They have to prove it to _win_ a lawsuit, not to file one, and in civil suits, "proof" is simply a preponderance of evidence, not the "beyond reasonable doubt" of criminal law. If your main goal is intimidating people, then the act of filing a lawsuit may be more than sufficient, especially if their lawyer tells them that it will cost significantly more to fight the case than accept the proffered settlement.
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Protest to your local retailer (Score:2)
So... If local retailers stop carrying RIAA/DRM'd music, that sends a much louder message than anything that consumers, even collectively, could manage. And local retailers DO listen to their customers, because otherwise
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Considering
Just out of curiosity, have you contacted the RIAA and suggested that they might want to be ashamed of themselves for randomly proposing settlement fees to people who haven't even violated DRM?
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Not buying won't work. The demographic of people who won't buy is small enough and easy enough to chalk up to 'lost sale due to piracy'.
The people with the real power are:
A)The group that get signed. They could make 'no drm' as part of the contract.
B)retails who buy the discs for resale. If they say 'no DRM' it would go away as well.
Both theose group nede to relize the labels need THEM, not the other way around.
Apple iTunes (Score:3, Interesting)
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Right after Apple allows interoperability between their other products and other manufacturers'.
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Setting up the technical and support structures for interoperability is a huge deal though, and it's not the sort of thing you can try on a limited basis, or back out of shortly after, without pissing off a lot of people and organizations who have put a lot of effort into setting up new code and new organizational structures.
On the other hand, allowing selected tracks to go DRM-free is less of a big deal. It probably requires some code changes to iTunes, and requires some legal discussions with the speci
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naw, must be some huge conspiracy.
If you note, the article says are pulling DRM from indie music. Apple wants to sell popular music. Two different beasts.
Steve Jobs had no reason to say he wants to get rid of DRM if it wasn't true.
I would also like to point out that any company that includes IN THE PRODUCT a way to bypass DRM really isn't a fan of DRM.
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From TFA:
iTunes does carry indie music, so Apple does have lots of people they can negotiate with without the major labels getting in the way. For instance, all of CDBaby's catalog is available on iTunes. [1] [musicbizacademy.com] [2] [blogs.com]
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Apple doesn't "negotiate" with indie labels. There is one deal, take it or leave it. That deal is largely defined by what Apple negotiated with the majors. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, that deal includes DRM.
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Steve Jobs has a very good reason to say that he wants to get rid of DRM... multiple european countries considering sanctioning his products here.
The guy is a major part of Disney now, and Pixar before that. He's been massively into DRM for a lot longer than just the iTunes store lifetime.
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When the major labels cease to require it. Until then, those artists and labels are free to sell DRM-free elsewhere. In fact, it's rather hypocritical to continue selling through iTunes if you're opposed to DRM on your music, but people do it. Without the major labels, Apple doesn't have much reason to expend the effort to segregate their sales.
Re:Apple iTunes (Score:4, Insightful)
Going Out on a Limb (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the Entertainment conglomerates can plausibly claim at the PHB level, "there's no DRM standard and that's not our fault." This way they can maintain chaos and gain total control of the digital distribution channel when they pick a winner.
It also means that whoever is making these DRM schemes has to do a really good job creating code that has _lots_ of error condition controls. Which I just don't see anyone doing.
The end game is the media conglomerates to win unless the copyright law is meaningfully overhauled.
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No DRM can be effective. So they acn pick a 'winner', but then an hour later it will be cracked.
Copyright is changing. The laws aren't changing, but less and less people put up with it. You can have all the copyright laws in the world, if enough of the people break them, then it is, in effect, gone.
The new defacto copyright will be all about whats worth the bother to put on line.
used CDs work (Score:5, Funny)
Next thing you know, we'll be getting out the microphone and rip a song right from the loudspeakers - oldskool.
Re:used CDs work (Score:4, Interesting)
It's completely obnoxious in both scale and obtrusiveness, technologically speaking.
And WE get to pay for it! Don't we all feel warm and fuzzy now, knowing we're paying for people to protect themselves from us. God knows -I- can't be trusted with something as powerful as a nsync album, and I should have to pay to make sure that very complicated steps are being taken to make absolutely SURE I don't do anything dangerous with that music-like-abomination.
Deutsche Telekom interest in DRM? (Score:3, Interesting)
T-Mobile USA won't support non-DRM'd media out of the box (for ringtones!). I think a couple executives (and a few board members) are going to have to have a conference call and try to figure out DT's position on DRM.
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Right. And parent companies have to consider whether their subsidiaries' activities negatively impact other units' profitability.
T-Mobile not supporting non-DRM'd music may increase support expenses at Musicload, as customers try to buy newly available non-DRM'd music at Musicload and experience problems. A CBA would determine if the support for those customers is cheaper than the increased profits from sales of DRM'd music; if not, then these su
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-Rick
Pass the cost on (Score:5, Funny)
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"Music Load" (Score:2)
While the story is about DRM'ed music... (Score:4, Insightful)
DRM needs to die. Its only real-world impact is to inconvenience those of us who try to do things legally - certainly the pirates aren't being overly inhibited.
Also, pirated versions are always superior (Score:4, Insightful)
Music -- No DRM, can play anywhere, any number of times, no restrictions.
Movies -- You can copy only the main movie so it starts up immediately without the need to even touch any controls. No menus, no half a dozen previews, no FBI or MPAA warnings. And absolutely nothing, anywhere, that is "unskippable".
Games -- No CD checks. No hunting through your house to find a CD just so you can play an old game that's already fully installed. No losing your purchase because the disk is damaged.
So, the current option offered to people who want to be legit is to buy overpriced stuff that's a pain in the ass to use and isn't as functional as the free pirate versions. What a surprise that so many people opt out of that deal.
Proof that DRM is Good For The Economy(tm) (Score:2)
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#1 question (Score:2)