US Patent Office To Re-Examine Blackboard Patent

Mr_5tein writes "Groklaw is reporting that the US Patent and Trademark Office has just ordered a re-examination of the e-learning patent owned by Blackboard Inc, thanks to a filing by the Software Freedom Law Center. SFLC's press release states, 'The Patent Office found that prior art cited in SFLC's request raises "a substantial new question of patentability" regarding all 44 claims of Blackboard's patent...' The SFLC explains that though such re-examinations may take a couple of years to complete, approximately '70% of re-examinations are successful in having a patent narrowed or completely revoked.'"

its nice, but...

Its good that there are agencies out there that look for bad patents and bring them to the gov't's attention, but it would be much better if the patent clerks did a better job screening the patents, or these challenges came during the comment period.

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If patent service worked as designed those patents shouldn't have been granted in a first place.

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I asked the same question to a friend a while ago, his response was rather discouraging.

As he explained to me, patent clerks are paid on a commission basis on how many patents they grant, not on how many they review. That, in and of itself, is rather disc

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As he explained to me, patent clerks are paid on a commission basis on how many patents they grant, not on how many they review. That, in and of itself, is rather discouraging

your friend is an idiot. patent clerks are paid a salary. there is no 'commission

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If you're going to make corrections to someone else's post (which is perfectly fine), try refraining from making direct insults. "Commission" isn't the most appropriate term to use, Quota is more appropriate, but my description of the system is still corr

Re:its nice, but...

Right now, he patent clerk's job is to assess prior patents (easy) but not prior art (expensive).

[...] it would be much better if the patent clerks did a better job screening the patents [...]

That would require the patent clerks to be, or to hire, experts in the relevant field. That's possible but expensive. The cost of doing so is almost certainly higher than the cost of the current system: hire experts only when the patent gets challenged.

Since very few patents ever do get challenged, we are probably all saving money with the USPTO the way it is.

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Since very few patents ever do get challenged, we are probably all saving money with the USPTO the way it is.

If you count just the tax dollars that fund the salaries of the USPTO, perhaps you're right.

If you count the list prices paid by end-users of p

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Evil? Not necessarily. Incompetent? You bet. Useless? Not if you can afford it.

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Your trolling is sophomoric at best. Often times, these patent reviews come at a time when most of the damage has already been done and businesses are closed/jobs are lost. You probably think it's alright if somebody breaks your leg too as long as they giv

HEY MODERATORS

There was no reason for the parent post to be http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=218926&cid=17 7 69878 [slashdot.org] modded down

It hasn't gone unnoticed that the people who bitterly wined about it couldn't make a counter claim, why? Because they know that if they

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"boo hoo, i got modded down."

i hear the waaaaahmbulance on it's way...

I don't care if I got modded down, I've been posting for nearly a decade with thousands of posts and have plenty of "karma". But because of that I also recognize bullshit and game play

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Ah yes, proof by repeated assertion. ...

Hypocrite. Fine, then show me that I'm wrong when I said that patents stopped the generic manufacture of AIDS drugs in Africa and the death of a million people. Show me that I'm wrong when I said that patents he

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Hypocrite.

Oh, I don't necessarily disagree with the message, only with the manner in which it was expressed. Repeated assertions of key phrases like that just annoy the hell out of me. You'll alienate people less if you write more like a person and less

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Oh, I don't necessarily disagree with the message, only with the manner in which it was expressed.

I apoligize then, I didn't mean to come off like that. It's just that I feel the same way, people say ... it's a property ... it's a property ... it's a p

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I'd be happy to go hunting for evidence of such on the same day you show me a reasonable argument that any of the advances you describe would have been researched and developed in a country without strong patent protections. The fact that they weren't ten

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I find that to be a thoroughly depressing response, see reply to the post above yours. Yeah, you're wrong allright.

Blackboard patent?

I read the title and I thought: "Hey, has someone patented the blackboard? Cool!"

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No, just the internet-based equivalent ;)

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As a student that has to use it, I'd say you're not missing much. The real thing is better, even if I'm all about the dry erase boards.

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Damn marker sniffers.

Re:Blackboard patent?

I'm starting my fourth semester of blackboard classes, and while it sure is nice not to have to trek to a classroom miles away to go to night school, the software really is pathetic. I can only imagine what cool things could be done with it if there was a motivation to innovate.

Oh, wait, that's why there is a patent system isn't it? This is going to be an object lesson in how much better the software (or its competitors) gets real quickly once stupid, overly-broad software patents get overturned.

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In that lies their problem with this particular patent. Several companies have had internet-base elearning for a long time. Several were built before Blackboard was created. Innovation has absolutely occurred outside of blackboard's LMS. When we go int

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Hey, has someone patented the blackboard?

Don't be silly, a blackboard has many years of prior art. They patented the instructional use of blackboards as a teaching device. It's a business method, so the patent is totally legit.

Who drives it and will they succeed?

I develop educational software myself, so I'm very pleased with this. Two points seem to be especially interesting:

• Although Blackboard sued Desire2Learn, a commercial entity, for patent infringement, the reexamination is drive by three open source projects, supported by pro-bono Software Freedom Law Center. So a tendency of free software to fight patents directly.
• According to TFA 70% of all reexaminations lead to narrowing or revoking the patent, but this is an average over all reexaminations. There has been a lot of prior art here, so I think the chances are even higher here.

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Yes, but doesn't your second point assume that many of the earlier reexaminations weren't based on substantial reasons? I'm not sure this is common; I'd assume that reexaminations in general have such a high rate of overturning patents specifically becaus

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Anyone else find it infuriating that 70% of re-examinations result in them revising their initial findings?

What kind of crappy department accepts an error rate of around 70%? And you know it's worse than that, because these are just the cases that people g

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70% of reexaminations being "succesful" does not mean that 70% of all patents are invalid. All we know is that 70% of the patents that are reexamined are invalid. We need to know the proportion of patents that are reexamined in order to draw any conclusion

Re:Who drives it and will they succeed?

Reexaminations cause a change to be made in the claims in 70%. In only 12% are all of the claims cancelled. In the remaining cases, the applicant amends at least one of the claims. However, that really doesn't mean that much as most patents have 20-30 admitted claims. As a patent litigator, I find reexams mostly useless because the Patent Office cannot look at any art other than patents and printed publications. Also, in inter partes reexams (the most common type), the person requesting the reexam only has one shot to say anything. After the reexam starts, it is all between the PTO and the patent holder. During litigation, I can have my experts, my clients, and myself telling the court why the patent is invalid.

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I agree with you about needing more data to make an accurate claim, but it's my intuition that there are a great many more patents that would be invalidated if someone bothered to make a challenge.

And since we know that, of the patents that get challenged,

"But its on the Internet" patents

For years, the patent office was granting patents based upon adding the words "Internet based" to what was otherwise an unoriginal idea.

Education? Not new.
"But its on the Internet". Hey! That's new!

There are still literally thousands of patents floating around that were based on this mindless logic, and it still happens today.
Just last week, Microsoft patented a "digital means of recording one's life history". One might call it a diary -- or a time capsule,
but no this was something new. Why? Because its ...wait for it.... "digital".

Sigh.

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A handwritten diary is also digital (unless the handwriting is really bad).

Prior Art...

I guess it would be pretty difficult for them to get over the prior art issue, considering they started in 1997. Maybe they're contending that all that other elearning before they even existed wasn't REAL elearning.

As I work for a company that would have been negatively affected by this patent, I am really glad that this is happening. We've had "prior art" elearning related to basically all of their patents since 1995/96 specifically in a web-based format. Now watch the stock ticker on their site go zooming down once this actually goes through.

I think that, like frivilous lawsuits, frivilous patents should have equally painful repercussions. Blackboard should have to pay anyone showing reasonable claim to prior art a penalty for this ;)

Years you say?

Anyone knows how much work is involved in checking up if those claims are valid or not? I seem to be underestimating the task. I would have expected that this was something that could be handed off to an intern to just run off a checklist: yes|no

Re:decades I say

Anyone know how much work is involved in checking up if those claims are valid or not?

Typically tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of dollars in attorney fees for the patent owner and hundreds of man hours for some of the most experienced patent examin

Free courseware

To higher ed faculty who are unaware, Available [nfomedia.org] is a modern day web appication, free alternative to BB, et al.

Here's the link to the Patent

The Patent seen at Google [google.com]

Oh well...

I guess its back to the old drawing board...

Neither Novel Or Innovative

As an LMS tech at a community college, I'm very hopeful that this will be reversed. I've evaluated several LMS's because we are currently near the end of our contract with our current one, and there's really nothing that Blackboard does that is very different than what everybody else offers. Right now, we're looking into Moodle [moodle.org] and Sakai [sakaiproject.org], as well as some commercial products.

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I'm in the same boat, but we're evaluating new LMSs 'cause we use WebCT 4.1 still and it will go to level B support Jan of '08. Havent' found one that is as easy to use (with no instruction, etc) as CE 4.x yet tho... be interesting to discuss w/ you over

Let's hope this is successful

Having VERY intimate knowledge of Bb (no, NOT an employee), I can tell you for a fact they are the quintessential bullies: they may be the biggest kid on the block, but they're none too smart.

They treat a good many customers as if Bb was the customer -- they are constantly issuing demands, determining their own timelines/deadlines. For example, they've been known to contact a school and say, "hey, we're taking your server down for maintenance/updates at such-and-such time, so be ready" instead of "when's a good time to do that?". They honestly feel these schools have no other choice as far as software, but a good many of their customers are waking up to the fact that Angel et al. are superior in most - if not all - aspects.

My opinion is the folks at the top KNOW their software just doesn't stack up well against the competition and that's why they're such thugs and so vehement in this whole patent mess. They probably figure "well, if we prevail in this patent mess, we can just license it out to these other vendors, make a nice fat percentage off that, and not even bother producing our own software anymore."

A good plan I guess. Make a piece off every distance learning program and lay off almost every staff member. That would make for a hell of an ROI.

BTW, be warned: I'm following Bb's lead of patenting a concept by patenting: the wheel, the lever, gardening, internal combustion engines, electicity, underwear, English AND Spanish language, and supermodels. Definitely supermodels.

Time to put patents to rest

The abuse of patents has become so widespread that it is time to drop the concept. If someone can implement a product or service, good for them. If they can sell that product or service and provide their customers to satisfaction, great. But when some c

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Actually, none of your money is spent to fund the USPTO. The agency is completely funded by the fees it raises for examinations, re-examinations and the myriad of other fees associated with the patent system. Actually, a lot of the money the PTO makes wi

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Yes, much like the Post Office. And *thst* is why they grant everything in sight; the USPTO is a profit center for themselves and the gov't.

USPTO a profit-center

Yes, you are completely right ... the USPTO is one of those rarest things ... a Government profit center. It's revenues come from the fees for the patents it awards. One granted patent = one billable fee.

This might explain why the USPTO shows so little interest in making sure that the patents it awards are of high quality. For the USPTO it makes absolutely no economic sense to it spend more time on individual patents than the absolute minimum.

After all, there is this appeal procedure right? So if people have objections to patents we issue they can use that. In the mean time, when you're paid by the item it makes absolutely no sense to spend too much time perfecting each item you make. And if people out there don't like a patent we issue, then they can pay us a fee for a review procedure.

Simple economics really. That's what management is all about, right?

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Yes, you are completely right ... the USPTO is one of those rarest things ... a Government profit center. It's revenues come from the fees for the patents it awards. One granted patent = one billable fee.

Actually, if a Patent survives its terms it is two or three billable fees. There are maintenance fees to keep a patent alive.

This might explain why the USPTO shows so little interest in making sure that the patents it awards are of high quality. For the USPTO it makes absolutely no economic sense to it spend more time on individual patents than the absolute minimum.

Actually, it has a lot to do with time constraints and the backload of patents. The system is already upwards of 3 years or mo

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No it's not, it's a zero cost center.
There's a difference.

Re:How much did *you* pay for this patent?

Government is slow for many reasons - and in most cases that is a good thing given all the stupid and strange things people try to do each year (at least that I see).

Realize that there is a tradeoff - if they make it fairly simple and quick to overturn patents, then the system will get bogged down with the same amount of spam through that pipe.

The patent system was designed with the idea that it would protect the rights of the patent holder. In the beginning, it was decently hard to patent junk and things that had prior art (due to the fact that each application was reviewed by someone who hopefully had some knowledge in the area). Fast forward to today when there are millions of patents granted each year. There is no way the system can check and review each patent application before it grants the patent (as it should).

Capitalism has little to do with it - the Patent office simply is getting overwhelmed by the numbers. It is more of a lack of qualified and trained staff to do the work (cause looking at patents all day is something that doesn't pay much and is fairly boring to most people).

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Well, several folks have commented that one should not be able to patent an educational process or method, implying that Blackboard has attempted to do so. They have not; instead, Blackboard has patented tools and features in it's online learning manageme

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So, by logical extension of your argument I should not be able to copyright a textbook I've written? I'm glad it's your humble opinion, because it certainly isn't your clearly-thought-out one.

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Blackboard helps to pull in resources so it's easier for education materials to get to the students and to help communication bewteen students and teachers.

It's too bad Blackboard sucks. My college switched from it to Angelhttp://ais.its.psu.edu/angel/