Legal Victory for P2P in France
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:37 AM
from the all-their-slimey-lawyers-on-loan-to-riaa dept.
from the all-their-slimey-lawyers-on-loan-to-riaa dept.
nietsch writes "The Register is reporting that a french Kazaa user that had been sued by the SCPP (the french equivalent of the RIAA) has been acquitted by the courts in his county. 'The Judges decided that these acts of downloading and uploading qualified as private copying' Ars Technica has more coverage on the subject, or you can read it in english from the organization that lead the defense."
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who knew? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:who knew? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:who knew? (Score:5, Insightful)
Like why France was the first country to declare war on the Nazis in Sept '39 while the US just sat on their hands?
Re:who knew? (Score:2, Insightful)
George Washington also surrendered to the French once .
Re:who knew? (Score:3, Informative)
Once, winter won after Napoleon burned most of Moscow to the ground.
Re:who knew? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:who knew? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's funny how people always mention WW2 and the french Vichy Government, while completely ignoring the whole history of social and democratic progress.
The Vichy government was a mistake and a shame. But that doesn't erase the fact that Americans owe France their freedom, most of their constitution, and a pretty statue. Looking at thing from a different angle, America's image as bringers of freedom, fighters against tyranny, and lighthouse of the world for democracy was right at the end of WW2. Since then, it's been going downhill quite frankly. Yet nobody seems to blindly ignore America's more glorious past. So give France a rest, read up some of its history, and understand that every country can sometime slip.
Re:who knew? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:who knew? (Score:3, Funny)
Dude we do wear deodorant, and lots of it. It's the single micacle that allows us to wash only once year, for valentine's day !
Re:who knew? (Score:5, Informative)
France had some of the best organised Resistance movements in the War
French Aristocracy and rulers have a habit of Bending over , The French People have a habit of Kicking them up the arse when they do .
Re:who knew? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, they opposed Bush in his "omg teh terroristz lets bomb iraq!" madness.
Re:who knew? (Score:4, Insightful)
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:who knew? (Score:3, Insightful)
The _companies_ of those countries might've opposed the war because of that.
The _citizens_ of those countries opposed it because they thou
Re:who knew? (Score:2, Troll)
They are so pro-consumer, who would ever consider even starting a business there?
Yay socialism.
(I feel moderator rage building...It's OK. Ive got karma to
Re:who knew? (Score:3, Interesting)
Early Days (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Early Days (Score:5, Insightful)
Because God Forbid the music industry actually gives any of that money to the people that write/play/record/produce/create the music that makes them an industry. I figure the artists should actually see some of the money instead of it being spent on lawsuits and red-tape.
I mean, that's like winning the $100M lottery and only getting $5 out of it because someone decided that they'd use the rest of the money to sue other people to make sure someone doesn't steal my $5.
I guess I just don't see how the RIAA isn't a wholy owned subsidiary of the Mafia.
Re:Early Days (Score:2)
I couldn't agree more. How else would they get away with the crap they've been pulling for so long? They've done much worse than cracking down on filesharers; it's just now
Re:Early Days (Score:3, Funny)
That's because you have it backward.
Re:Early Days (Score:3, Insightful)
That's really not fair. You're comparing a group of terroristic thugs who sell protection rackets and shady distribution channels with a group of Italian-American business
Private Copying (Score:2, Insightful)
Somehow I doubt copying is truly "private" if it involves people you don't know, who could possibly number in the thousands or more...
Re:Private Copying (Score:5, Informative)
Private? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Private? (Score:2)
Re:Private? (Score:3, Insightful)
The industry would like you to believe that YOU, in
Everyone's doing it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Everyone's doing it (Score:2, Offtopic)
Your statement is a classic case of logical fallacy called ad hominem tu quoque. Please read up about it here [utm.edu].
Re:Everyone's doing it (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Everyone's doing it (Score:4, Funny)
Your statement is a classic example of the logical fallacy no humorus tu assholio de Slashdot. In this fallacy, someone fails to get a joke and thus responds to an absurd or amusing post in a serious way. Moderators, such as the one who gave you +1 Insightful, also sometimes suffer from this malady.
I'd like to see a clear definition of... (Score:3, Interesting)
At what point does retrieving a file from someone else's computer stop being private? I completely understand someone making copies of all kinds of things within their home. When someone I don't know is making copies of my files - this is when it seems to be anything but private. I'm not advocating a particular POV about copyrighted materials here... I'm thinking in terms of the moment that a file ceases to be "my" file and becomes "someone else's file."
Transcript of court proceedings (Score:5, Funny)
Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. If he will give us money for the MP3s, he can join us in our quest for the Holy Racketeering Scheme.
FRENCH JUDGE:
Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. Uh, MP3s are free you see...
SCPP:
What?
RIAA:
He says MP3s are free!
SCPP:
Are you sure they're free?
FRENCH JUDGE:
Oh, yes. They're very nice-a. (I told him MP3s are free.)
POLICEMEN:
[chuckling]
SCPP:
Well, u-- um, can we come up and have a look at your MP3 collection?
FRENCH JUDGE:
Of course not! You are English types-a!
SCPP:
Well, what are you, then?
FRENCH JUDGE:
I'm French! Why do think I have this outrageous accent?!
RIAA:
What are you doing in England?
FRENCH JUDGE:
Mind your own business!
Re:Transcript of court proceedings (Score:3, Funny)
Also, John Cleese was wearing iPod earphones throughout the whole sketch.
That's a pretty shaky defense (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't help but wonder if that's just going to give legitimate fair-use copying a bad name.
Re:That's a pretty shaky defense (Score:2)
I usually make it a policy not to be completely negative, but this HAD to be said.
kthxbye.
Re:That's a pretty shaky defense (Score:5, Interesting)
FYI, CD-R/DVD+/-R/RWs are taxed in Europe, as insisted by artists. IOW, if you have downloaded MP3s or movies and burned them on CD/DVD - you are clear, since you are already compensated artists thru recordable medium tax. (And every CD/DVD burner is taxed too.)
And to cool off your hot (in legal sense) American heads, I have to remind that European legal system is NOT precedent-based. IOW, one case over here means nothing. Judge decides the case after looking into the circumstances of the case before him, not by searching prehistoric records of how Gutenberg/etc were judged.
What can you tell from the case, is overall mood over here. People in Europe are sick of taxes. And another association asking for another compensation and protection against competition is just what it is - another association asking for another compensation and another protection against competition. And artist associations here are far from being first in the queue of the beggars, looking for gov't help.
What is illegal here putting such CD-R pile for a sale. But I think it's illegal everywhere. As long as you give it away for free - you are Okay.
Sit and wait... (Score:2)
TFA... (Score:4, Insightful)
What they seem to be looking at is accepting that people are going to use P2P networks anyway, and look at implementing some kind of revenue model to ensure that music publishers don't get so antsy in france that they sue dead people who have never used a computer.
"But," I hear you cry, "what's to stop me using Brand X esoteric open source P2P software?". Well, if you are using and not paying, you are now committing an offence against the state.
Which makes it a damn sight easier to get your arse put in prison.
Cunning.
Uh. Not quite. (Score:5, Interesting)
France uses the "civil law" system (as opposed to the "common law" system used in the U.S., the U.K., and the Commonwealth, past and present). It's based on the Roman corpus iuris civilis, and it doesn't have any such thing as "precedent." Each and every case is decided purely on the facts of the case, the law as written, and the judge's... erm... well... judgment.
This doesn't mean P2P is legal in France. It means someone got away with it.
Re:Uh. Not quite. (Score:5, Informative)
And when the judge deviates (because the precedent is obsolete for example), he better have good reasonning wrapped around its verdict, because higher courts will break the judgment if not.
Re:Uh. Not quite. (Score:3, Interesting)
Social Networks + P2P? (Score:4, Interesting)
They are changing the law now (Score:4, Informative)
Then P2P networks and the use of them, even to share innocent files, will be illegal. This law will also affect Open Source software development, so it might matter more than you think.
You can help the French community by signing a petition here:
http://eucd.info/index.php?English-readers [eucd.info]
So does this mean .. (Score:4, Insightful)
As they say in french (Score:4, Funny)
Is Paris P2P Paradise? (Score:3, Informative)
I would have assumed that encouraging legal downloading of mainstream, copyrighted files would have discouraged the growth of shared, open alternatives. But the opposite seems to be true.
Re:Not Sure If I Agree (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not Sure If I Agree (Score:5, Informative)
The act of downloading is considered fair game but the act of uploading without the correct licence is still illegal.
you also have to know that in France there is a "tax on the private copy". When you buy a blank CD or DVD, you pay a tax that goes directly in the SCPP's pocket. The judge recognized that by burning most of the downloaded stuff, this particular person was in fact paying for his stuff and denied his responsability.
BTW, isn't it a last year news ?
On a side note, French parliament is currently examining a law that would legalize a "P2P fee", legalizing 100% of P2P downloadable stuff. Its chances to pass are thin, but there is currently a heated debate (most politician think about the 2007 presidential elections)
Re:Not Sure If I Agree (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:France surrenders to the War on P2P (Score:5, Insightful)
But I'm just French. And not even Republican. What do I know about spinning news?