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Video Game Industry to Sue Michigan's Governor 505
hapwned writes "A news release at Warcry writes that the ESA (Entertainment Software Association) plans on filing suit in Michigan to overturn the recent Violent Games Act. From the article: 'The ESA argues that this bill is an effort to substitute the government's judgment for parental supervision and turn retailers into surrogate parents. Lowenstein said that the industry's products were being unreasonably and unfairly singled out. He contends that while there is no question that a few games have content that some audiences will find offensive, the same can be said for some content in TV, films, music, and books. Since the government does not regulate the sales of those entertainment industries, it should follow suit for the sale of video games. Ultimately, he concluded, parents, not government or industry, must be the gatekeepers of what comes in the home.'"
These guys have my full support. (Score:5, Insightful)
Really, it's gone way the fuck too far.
Re:These guys have my full support. (Score:2)
Yeah, yeah...I hear all of you saying "keep control of your kids!" or "Don't let your kids buy it!"
Well...tis is one tool to help parents do just that.
No one is removing this from shelves, but rather giving parents a little more of a choice in what their kids do and see.
Re:These guys have my full support. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:These guys have my full support. (Score:2, Interesting)
As far as I know, it simply defines what you can't sell to minors.
You also can't sell alcohol, tobacco, or pornography to minors. So what?
If a parent wants their kid to play Grand Theft Slaughter Rape Party, they can still buy it themselves.
Re:These guys have my full support. (Score:4, Insightful)
Firstly, I don't believe alcohol and tobacco are appropriate comparisons. These items do well-documented, scientifically provable, physical harm. They are provably physically addictive. They do not qualify for Constitutional free-speech protection. None of these things are true of video games, so I don't think it follows from "It's legitimate to age-restrict alcohol and tobacco" to "It's legitimate to age-restrict video games."
Scientific studies on video games are conflicting at best, and tend to find that the harm is slight (mildly elevated aggressive tendency for an hour or two), nonexistent (no noticeable change in behavior), or even an actual benefit (Johnny takes his aggression out on the virtual bad guy that might've otherwise gotten taken out on his real classmate/sibling/etc.)
What I'm most concerned about, though, as that with this issue (and so many others!) it seems the focus is on taking care of peripheral, relatively unimportant issues, rather than the central ones. The central issue here is that many kids have bad, or uncaring parents, or parents who are simply clueless on the right way to raise a kid. What can we do to solve this? I propose that a few things can be done-freely available birth control, to ensure that those who don't want children don't have them, easily accessible and comprehensive education for new parents as to the basics of child development, etc., a stop to the "not my business, not my problem" attitude, and the corresponding "I won't take any advice from anyone" mentality, a universal living wage to ensure that parents will not both have to work long hours just to stay afloat...
Obviously, these are harder things to do. They require challenges to people's comfort zone. They require money. They require planning and cooperation. They require careful thought and community involvement. It's easier to point another finger, slap another fine on something peripheral, and then run "stings" every so often to net a fine or two and get a pat on the back. But we have so often forgotten to ask the fundamental question about any solution to any problem, and that is:
Is what we are doing, WORKING? Is the problem decreasing in severity and frequency? To the current methods being used to combat bad parenting (scattershot "education" which generally consists of a couple hour-long sessions on how to burp a baby and change a diaper, underfunded social services divisions which take away kids who were with good parents and then quite often leave genuine abuse/neglect cases behind, age restrictions on a few things) I would say the answer is no.
When the current solutions and methods have been tried for quite some time, and the problem is only getting worse, it is not time to "strengthen" the existing, non-working structure-it's time to tear it down, rethink, and rebuild. Unfortunately, that takes guts, brains, planning, and money-and in terms of doing anything really worthwhile, all of those seem to be in very short supply currently.
Re:These guys have my full support. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that they've passed laws before to protect people from themselves doesn't mean it was the right thing to do, nor is it justification for passing even more of them.
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:5, Insightful)
C.S. Lewis
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:2, Troll)
Governments and civil societies construct legal systems to server the populace. The populace, under 18, needs to be prevented from pr0n, booze, weapons, and in this particular case, violent video games or those video games with adult images in them.
No, it's not fair to arbitrarily have 18 as the age, but there is no other accepted metric for separating youthful impessionistic people from adults within our society.
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:5, Interesting)
"We"?
The populace, under 18, needs to be prevented from pr0n, booze, weapons, and in this particular case, violent video games or those video games with adult images in them.
No, they don't. European children manage to handle nudity and alcohol at younger ages, and they're turning out all right. Hell, they have lower rates of teen pregnancy than the US.
There's nothing wrong with watching porn or violent imagery, as long as you know the difference between fantasy and reality. That comes along in the single digit age range, not at 18.
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:3, Funny)
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:4, Insightful)
because he chose not to wear his seat belt?"
The same people that pay for crack babies, welfare moms and homeless people. The same people that indirectly sponsor cancer research through government grants. Taxpayers.
No matter what the system is, there will be those that contribute and those who unfairly benefit from it. All you can do is try to intelligently manage it and keep the damage low. However this is all unrelated to the topic at hand, which is a small, lazy, vocal group grabbing the reins of the government and steering it into an Orwellian domain where what you see and what you play is strictly monitored by the government.
The less responsibility you take for yourself, the more responsibility society, and by extension, the government, must take for you. Stop expecting the government and laws to solve your problems, and stop trying to pass laws that circumvent the freedom we all take for granted in this country.
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know what pisses me off more, the government sticking its dick in everyones proverbial ass, or the parents that expect laws to do their jobs for them.
Shit like this is proof positive that democracies and republics are goddamn shams, because damn near everyone is goddamn stupid and their combined ineptitude ends up fucking the whole thing up.
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh huh. Because precisely what we need are more laws, because we can't trust parents to be responsible enough to apply their moral values (which may not be the same as yours, by the way) to their little bastards.
Hey I'm a parent, and I'm extremely vigilant in this regard. I certainly don't need laws to do my job for me! On the other hand, I'm surrounded by people who don't seem to give a rat's arse about what their kids are exposed to. I used to love free speech before it was taken away, but letting your 4 year old watch the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? C'mon!
My problem is this: I can raise my boys to be ethical and as they get older, to understand entertainment violence in context, but my family is not an island. My kids (and my self for that matter) will have to live in a world filled with the demon spawn that other parents have negilently released into the community. So while I don't need laws to tell me to do my job, I do need laws to tell those other parents to do theirs.
That being said, the Law is a very blunt instrument when it comes to getting parents to take their responsibilities seriously. You can't censor out all the violent cultural material, at lest not without creating an intolerably saccharine culture. (Conversely, of course, some material is so objectionable that no civilised society should tolerate it, eg. children's programming which extols the virtues becomming a suicide bomber.) I'm just no sure how we can get parents to take an interest and to realise the responsibility they owe to their fellow citizens.
Re:It's the government's right to protect minors (Score:3, Interesting)
IMHO, the first step would be to stop pushing parenthood and stop providing incentives for it.
If the only people who had kids were those who really give enough of a shit to take the responsibility seriously (like it sounds like you are) rather than just every dipshit who wants to be a part of something or wants something to love them then that problem would dissipate
Part of this is
Re:These guys have my full support. (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice strawman, but no one here thinks it's OK when parents don't give a shit, so take your strawman and stuff it back up your ass. I think that most /.ers believe that as bad as parental neglect is a nanny state that steps in to regulate
OMG. (Score:5, Funny)
"In soviet russia, games sue you!"
were doomed!
Re:OMG. (Score:3, Funny)
Dear Mastadex,
DOOM ("DOOM") is the owner of United States Federal Trademark Registration(s) No. 12345678 and *numerous other trademark registrations pertaining to the mark. DOOM uses this mark in the United States in conjunction with its three main manifistations, DOOM 1, DOOM 2, and DOOM 3, and other products. DOOM's federal registration has been in full effect for over a horking high number of years. A copy of the federal trademark registration data is
Smackdown! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Smackdown! (Score:2, Insightful)
when's the last time (Score:5, Insightful)
or better yet, a cartoon.
or an orson scott card novel.
Re:when's the last time (Score:2, Insightful)
And many of the more freakish God pushers that support the Bible seem to be pro-murder and child-rape. Many are tax evaders to boot.
I want them kept under raps too.
A big fine per offence should do nicely.
C.
Holy cow I'm torn! (Score:5, Informative)
Come on guys, you know that name.
The IDSA. The same guys that were tearing down emulation sites by the dozens between 1998 and 2000. I still have some screwed up pictures of the guy someplace on my hard drive from back in the days of utter hatemail over the issue.
So I'm torn to even begin to support anything the guy or the new name of the computer entertainment mafia. But they are right.
Re:Holy cow I'm torn! (Score:2)
Not that it means I like it, but they do have a point.
Re:Holy cow I'm torn! (Score:2)
Just in case you don't remember. If you require a further reminder of awful things past:
http://www.mediamatic.net/article-200.5683.html&q
Re:Holy cow I'm torn! (Score:2)
I mean, duh. There's no real difference between what he was doing then and what he's doing now.
Re:Holy cow I'm torn! (Score:2)
Just because they're illegal, it doesn't mean they're wrong. If we're talking about ROM images for games you can currently purchase, like GBA games, then I'd say that's wrong. If we're talking about things that you can only get used - and once in a blue moon at that - then who's being harmed? Collectors will still drive up the value of the actual carts, and yet the people who want to just play the games can still get their hands on them.
I don't do things (or not do things) just because of legality. I do
Re:Holy cow I'm torn! (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm all for overturning the law... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'm all for overturning the law... (Score:2, Informative)
It's the State that will be sued, not actually the governor.
KFG
Re:I'm all for overturning the law... (Score:2)
Re:I'm all for overturning the law... (Score:5, Informative)
Some of the problems with the legal system are *solved* by lawsuits. If you disaprove of lawsuits in general, then you don't understand our legal system.
Parent is not insightful or interesting. Slashdot is full of this crap. Whenever we hear "Scumbag backstabs littleguy; littleguy sues for violation of contract", someone here says, "While I'm all for littleguy, suing is never the answer." It's exactly the fucking answer. Yes, I know that's a different misunderstanding than this one. Still.
Makes me weep for all those poor lawyers out there.
Just kidding.
Government, absolutely (Score:2, Insightful)
So too is it important that industries concentrate on producing high-quality, wholesome products.
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:3, Insightful)
I honestly don't know. For TV, there is the V-chip. For movies, the theatre and video stores are supposed to check ID before allowing a child to see or rent a movie. I believe blockbuster and hollywood video do a decent job on that for video games and movies.
I'd be interested to find out if stores like Target, Wal-Mart, etc. that sell R Rated DVD movies are checking ID. If not, then I would think they should be busted. Maybe I'll se
They should have a role (Score:2)
There's a big difference between this and selling drugs or booze to minors. First of all, street drugs are illegal to all... and both are something that despite any mental maturity, young people initially have little physical resiliance to.
Give them ratings, enforce, and inform... but don't hold the game companies accountable when parents buy their
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:2)
There is a rating system in place that is more than adequate and quite easy to make assumptions based on (ie you do not need to know the specifics
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:2)
This is lower middle class. 40k per year is like two parents working at Walmart. But as usual, there is much nitpicking on slashdot: have you BEEN TO MICHIGAN LATELY?
So back to the real topic at hand *sigh*
Communi
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it fucking is. Granted, it is 100% the responsibility of the gaming industry to provide information (e.g. ratings) about the content of their games. But it is the parents' responsibility to make decisions for their own children based on that information. Parents are not being deceived here; each game has a recommended age printed on it, along with a laundry list of potentially offensive topics or images that appear in the game.
Any parent who buys Grand Theft Auto for their child (you don't even need ratings - read the title!!!) is a either a goddamn psychopath, or woefully ignorant. Either way, it's their fault for accepting or ignoring the consequences.
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:2)
Although, in some cases, the effects of GTA on these kids might not be the biggest thing society has to worry about. OTOH, do you really want a child who is already a sociopath playing GTA games?
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:2)
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:2)
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
People try to make wholsome products... problem is nobody buys them. Or at least not enough people to make them profitable.
Video games are not chemicals ingested in the body. Yes, you can argue that the playing of video games does alter neurochemistry somewhat, but that is totally a different thing. Regulating video game sales WITHOUT regulating the sales of books, movies, cds, magazines on the same basis is uneven and therefore unethical. There is far more violence in the bible than in any video game that I have seen... would you accept banning sales of bibles to children? The number of people killed by religion [google.com] is far greater [google.com] than the number [google.com] of people [google.com] killed [google.com] because [google.com] of video games.
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:2)
Hiting someone else's child is never appropriate. If the child is acting inappropriately and the parent is not around, it is OK to say something reasonable to ask the child to behave. If you are a store owner, it would be perfectly reasonable to ask the parent to remove the child from the premises if they are allowing bad behavior. But, you have to u
Good God man! (Score:5, Insightful)
Parents ought to keep a close eye on the things their kids do, but it is also the community's responsibility to raise kids rightly.
But? But?!? Parents ought to keep a close eye on the things their kids do. PERIOD. There is no 'but.' You're just making excuses for bad parenting, and then blaming it on society. Right. It's everyone ELSE'S fault you're a shitty parent and your kids is going nuts in a public place. That kind of attitude is part of the problem.
So too is it important that industries concentrate on producing high-quality, wholesome products. Whether this be something as nutritious as breakfast cereal or as empty as your typical R-rated movie, it is important that the community standards to which a majority of a community profess are supported by the corporation's product.
It is important for industries to concentrate on goods and services that people want to pay for. Thats it. No, no, stop, really. That is ALL. If it isn't in the industry's interests to produce what you call "wholesome" products, then it has no responsibility to do so. The industry doesn't owe you anything. Why should anyone be able to hold them to their own personal standards of decency through enforced legislation? Thats just crazy. If you don't like what they're selling, don't buy it.
There always seems to be a handful of outspoken activists railing against one thing or another that they consider offensive. There is always talk about common decency, community standards, etc. But you get right down to it, most of the stuff they find offensive (popular Movies, TV shows, GTA) is hugely popular. Many many many times more people are actually buying and enjoying the very things these "defenders of decency" are opposed to. This leads me to ask "Just what mythical puritan community ARE these people representing?" Because when you look at the numbers, THEY are the ones in the minority.
It is good business to provide people with things they need. But there is also a lot of money involved in selling people their vices. We do not accept people who wish to sell drugs to minors, nor do we absolve of guilt those who would ply them with alcohol.
You're comparing video games drugs and alcohol? You've got to be kidding me....
It is not always 100% the job of the parent.
Um, yes. Yes it is.
The community must be held responsible to the extent that they have offered moral corruption from beyond the purview of the child's parents.
As I said before, the community is not responsible for your child. You are.
But say you're right. What if this mythical magical "community" is responsible? What are you going to do about it? Who are you going to punish? All community is, is a group of individuals. Are you going to just start selecting subsets of individuals and punishing them for their 'irresponsibility'? In the case of GTA, who do you pick? Do you punish the head of Rockstar games? The development team? The marketing guy? Suddenly one of these people is responsible for your kid? Or what? It just doesn't make any sense. These people don't even know you, or you them. There is no way they can be blamed for your poorly raised child.
Your kid, Your problem
Re:Good God man! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:5, Informative)
No, it's not. That's because the parent has the right to teach their child THEIR VALUES, and not have to worry about you ("the community") brainwashing them with YOUR VALUES.
The fact that many parents don't act responsibly doesn't mean we take that innate right away from everyone else.
But that is doing a huge disservice to the child who will not learn proper behavior.
And the parent and the child will have to suffer with that improper behavior, or do something about it, or wait until it escalates into a criminal act, and then the legal system will do something about it.
So too is it important that industries concentrate on producing high-quality, wholesome products.
I disagree completely. Industries produce nothing, companies do. Companies produce what people want to buy. People want to buy what suits them and their values. Don't worry about other people's values, worry about your own.
We do not accept people who wish to sell drugs to minors, nor do we absolve of guilt those who would ply them with alcohol.
I absolutely believe it should be the right of a parent to allow their child (and themselves, in the case of drugs) to ingest those things. Many countries have lowered or no cutoff year for when you can drink alcohol. Many of the best parents I know allow their children to responsibly enjoy alcohol before they turn 21, with no ill effects.
It is not always 100% the job of the parent. The community must be held responsible to the extent that they have offered moral corruption from beyond the purview of the child's parents.
Uh huh, and just who is going to decide what moral corruption is? Your signature reveals you are a Jesus worshiper, should you be allowed to force your ideals upon my child? If my child is walking through Wal-Mart talking about how Satan is his personal savior, should you have the right to enforce your belief system upon him?
Just mind your own business. That's a good rule of thumb forgotten by most right-wingers.
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
No.
Repeat as necessary.
one question survey for you (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you successfully raised two or more children?
My theory is that people who have don't dispense parenting advice in glib little phrases and hold forth that parenting is simple.
Re:one question survey for you (Score:2)
Waah! Parenting is hard. Boo hoo. Many who don't have children CHOOSE to not have them, and many who do should never have been allowed to be parents.
Yet somehow, those people's inability to realize they shouldn't be parents is screwing with the rights of the rest of us.
Re:one question survey for you (Score:3, Insightful)
It is not my understanding that it does. So, please tell me how you are affected by the law? (Because now you can't make money selling GTA to kids without their parents present?)
I would assume that if you did in fact have children and you did want them to play GTA, you could buy it and then give it to them. You could also buy them bondage pr0n DVDs, cartons of cigarettes, and bottles of Jack Daniels, too, but then you wouldn't be that great
Re:one question survey for you (Score:2)
$12000? You have to be kidding me, how are restricted video games more dangerous than alcohol/tobacco or unrestricted poisonous chemicals(Drano for instance).
What if I employ someone who sells an age restricted game to a kid? Do you honestly think the lawsuit will stop with the guy who rung up the sale? I doubt it.
Whats the big deal anyway? When do they start fining news organizations? I've seen hundreds o
Re:one question survey for you (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not arguing that parents shouldn't stop their children from playing San Andreas, and stop them from watching R movies when they are too young (or The Jerry Springer Show, for that matter.) I'm just saying that it seems like almost everyone I ever hear say something like "Jeez, parents, just...its not rocket science." isn't qualified to have an opinion.
Re:one question survey for you (Score:2)
With your logic I could reply by asking you how long ago you reproduced, and how many children you've had and plan on having.
Then, when you say "I had them X years ago, had Y children, and plan to have Z total." I'll reply with yea but you're not as qualified as slashdot user ABC over here who had children when he was X+1 years ago, has had Y+1 children, and plans to have Z+1, total.
Qualifying someone's point of view on parenting by quantifying parenting skill is stupid because we
logic (Score:3, Insightful)
Because I would think that a person with more parenting experience than myself is more likely than not going to know more about it and have a more valuable opinion. I think your reply that x+y
I think the notion that we were all kids once so we all equally knowledgeable about parenting is not logical.
Re:one question survey for you (Score:2, Interesting)
You have to worry about the possibilities of the child playing the game while you are away.
You have to worry aobut the possibilities of the child buying the game himself.
Let me ask you this... Have you been a politician? If you have, then you would understand how hard this is. A kid has many many many friends in his life and even though some people may not think so, having a kid's friends hate a parent can make
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:3, Insightful)
Video games aren't cheap. Where are kids getting the $40-70 to buy a Grand Theft game in the first place? I'm not talking about 16-year olds with fast food jobs, I mean the elementary and junior high kids who we're passing laws to protect. Seems to me like one way for a responsible parent to monitor what their kids are bringing home would be to limit their disposable income. I question the morality of giving a 9, 13 or even 15-year old the spending power to buy an M-
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:3, Insightful)
Your kid gets out of school at 2:30pm and you probably get home from work at 6? If you are lucky enough to have a stay at home wife, great. But what if something happens and no longer have that luxury?
And if you are OK with GTA, what if it were cigarettes or liquor? Doesn't society have some responsibilities?
Re:Government, absolutely (Score:3, Insightful)
a) He's probably old enough to know that the game is a GAME, if you did your job as a parent up to that point.
b) You are WAY too lenient with a younger kid
c) If the money isn't coming from you or some sort of job, you may have far larger problems than what games he is playing.
Re:Please... (Score:2)
Why is it that there aren't more games like these today?
OTOH, I would be very afraid of a remake of Dig Dug with today's realistic graphics!
Where is the Common Sense? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't see why this compromise can't be reached. At that point we will be conducting due diligence, and can reach that wonderful state of plausible deniability.
Re:Where is the Common Sense? (Score:2)
Basically:
U
12
15
18
If you're under age, you can't get them. Legal requirement to abide by the BBFC ratings.
Re:Where is the Common Sense? (Score:2)
Re:Where is the Common Sense? (Score:2)
Until it is, it's not fair to the video game makers to single them out. It smacks of the old modern luddite battle cry: "Video games are for children!"
Re:Where is the Common Sense? (Score:4, Insightful)
Every time the society has banned books or otherwise tried to control what enters the hands of the populace, technological and societal advance has been put on hold for centuries at a time. Sure, it's for the sake of the children now, but aren't we all God's children?
Remember: They aren't called the Dark Ages because it was dark!
Re:Where is the Common Sense? (Score:2)
A settlement... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:A settlement... (Score:2)
Too late (Score:4, Insightful)
&sniff;
Not in America! (Score:2, Insightful)
Why should parents raise their kids when the government is happy to do it?
Parents...the forgotten authority (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure the government regulates those others (Score:2, Insightful)
Um, the V-Chip, Janet Jackson's nipple...
films,
It seems to me that the movie industry, haveing been made an offer it couldn't refuse (from the US gov't back in the '20s) set up self regulation: Films get rated, distributors won't screen X, unrated or (often) NC-17 films.
music,
Content labels, and the world's largest retailer won't carry potty-mou
This isn't a ban issue (Score:2)
Re:This isn't a ban issue (Score:2)
Re:Sure the government regulates those others (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhm. So has the games industry... what the heck do you think the ESRB *does* exactly?
The problem is that video games are being harassed by lawmakers *despite* having set up a mature self-regulation system, and movies (for instance) are not. Novels, which can be extremely disturbing and violent (see: American Psycho) have never had a self-regulation system, and they're entirely ignored by politicians and the press. Why? THAT is the issue.
Re:Sure the government regulates those others (Score:2)
You have to be able to read in the first place. Novels don't get burned but I suspect a lot of redneck types sublimate their illiteracy by having a spot of book burning now and again.
Anyone intelligent enough to read for their entertainment has already been written off by the "family values" freaks. Although now that I think of
Re:Sure the government regulates those others (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow wal-mart is a government institution???/ (Score:3, Insightful)
Dunno. How long has Wal mart been running US foreign policy viz China?
more lobbyists !!! (Score:2)
you know what ethics, and all that crap aside, and yes I said crap. In todays capitalist society the gaming industry needs to pony up and lobby the hell out of this. Thats the real driving force behind law making in this country isn't it. I'm tired of people pretending that this is a moral issue. All it is about is about Hillery Clinton preping her self for the 07 presidential race, and paying off enough senators to make this go away.
Don't give them ideas! (Score:2)
Why'd you have to bring other media into it?! Now we'll all have to show ID at the Barnes & Noble checkout!
I agree... (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow thats weird.
I hope they win... (Score:2)
I refer you to VGCats. (Score:2)
It's ok to kill prostitutes but not sleep w/ them (Score:2, Insightful)
Also I think we should ban high school football. God knows how much violence that has caused outside of playing it.
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Otherwise, the kid could just buy the game and hide it until the parents aren't around.
Yes, this is an inconveinece for the store clerks, that have to vet customers ages, and yes it'll reduce sales because there'll be fewer games being sold. But saying that this bill does NOT support a parent's interjection in a child's activities is just stupid.
I don't really understand it (Score:3, Insightful)
But you can't at age 18 walk into a pub and order a pint of beer...
I don't really understand it, computer games are like videos, just so far worse graphics and more interactive, but I'd imagine soon it'll reach video quality. Which begs the question... isn't letting a minor buy a sex-rape-killathon style video game over the counter the same as letting a minor walk into a dirty sex video shop and buy the equliviant video off the shelf?
Help us game industry!! (Score:2, Insightful)
The Bill itself (Score:4, Informative)
HOLLY CRAP!!!!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
I have always maintained that kids blaming their anti-social behavior on video games, music, movies, etc was a cop-out, a way of deflecting blame and reducing their possible heavy sentence.
I grew up watching the Big Bunny & Roadrunner Show. The most violent cartoons of their time (not to mention Tom & Jerry) and I don't go around smacking people with a 2X4. I was also seriously seriously teased throughout my grade school life. I also thought about grabbing a gun and blowing away more than a few of my fellow students. I didn't because.......
MY PARENTS TOOK AN INTEREST IN RAISING ME!!!!!!!
Parenting is not just having offspring but also raising that offspring to be a productive member of society wether they be ditch-digger, philosopher, politician or scientist. It doesn't matter what they become as long as they contribute to society rather than interfering with it.
I know this is kind of a rant/lecture but I care about human-kind. (Plus I've have a couple of Canadian-strength beers)
Lets Destroy the Parental Role! (Score:4, Funny)
Ahemm...
We need to destroy our constitution, human rights, marriage, religion, and of course, the common family unit consisting of a father, mother, and children. With our clean slate, we are now free to craft this new republic.
First off, a child is born and immediately sent into government processing. (I will explain how the child was produced later)
1 - Government is responsible for raising the child, this includes housing, feeding, and education.
-> Child lives in a type of nursery where trained (Beta) females, headed by an (Alpha) female, would raise all infants until the point of basic language comprehension (Typically 3 years of age). Other responsibilities would include recognizing birth defects, mental and physical retardations. Such children would be removed from the nursery and experimented on so as to identify the causes of these defects, they are later terminated.
-> Children passed the age of 3 are then formed into logical clusters based on specified breeding arrangements from their parents. They are then dormed together so that each cluster will receive a unique program of education designed to bring out the expected results concluding from their eugenic pattern.
-> Education typically involves physical training, lingual understandings and comprehensions, mathematics, sciences, technology, and creativity. (History, Philosophy, and Art doesn't exist anymore. We want our children to be intelligent, but we don't need them to 'Think')
-> Graduation from this education system will determine what classifications each child will have within our republic.
I will break these classifications down into 3 categories and then reduce each category by gender.
[Alpha Male & Female]
-> Forms the collective governemt to rule its people. All nation affecting decisions are decided solely on individuals who qualified necessary characteristics from their education. These people are not elected, but instead chosen products of perfect excellence who understand fully the needs and growths of our fine nation.
-> Designs all the mating patterns of the populace, combining both physical prowess and acedemic brilliance in hopes of producing a new generation of more superior (Alphas).
-> Forms all departments of theoretical sciences and invention.
-> Elders become professors in order to educate newer generations.
[Alpha Females]
-> Heads all nurseries so as to maximize the efficiency of infant growth.
[Beta Males & Females]
-> Organizes the developments of the common national needs, such as, food & water, medicine, transportation, government controls, and military.
-> Provides foundations to encourage creativity, entertainment, and growth. (Video games, movies, music and what not would occur here.)
-> Organizes breeding programs with the intention to produce a new generation to maintain these (Beta) programs.
[Beta Females]
-> Responsible for raising all infants produced for the government.
[Delta Males]
-> Those lacking in education are put into greater physical training programs and then placed in the military, programmed to be a meat shield for our nation, protecting and enforcing its interests upon the world.
-> Mental and physical experimentations for a wide array of reasons. Mainly to determine why eugenic expectations failed. Also to create cybernetic and geneti
Why I'm In Favor of This Bill (Score:4, Informative)
All this bill does, as best as I can understand it, is prevent a retailer from selling a "naughty" game to someone under 18.
It's nothing different than the age requirements for an R-Rated movie at the movie theatre. It simply says that little Johnny can't plunk down $50 and buy GTA.
If Johnny tries, and suceeds, then the retailer who sold it to him can be fined. If a game is given a Mature/Adult rating, then shouldn't we enforce it at the retail level like we do movies?
I'm all for parental supervision, but mom can't watch Johnny 24/7. If I were a parent, I would want to know that my kid couldn't go buy GTA without an adult's assistance.
BTW, the entire bill can be read here:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2005-2006
Re:Why I'm In Favor of This Bill (Score:4, Informative)
Except, of course, that the movie industry voluntarily enforces the MPAA rating system. There is no law requiring them to do so. Movie retailers agreed to this to prevent such a law being passed.
I feel the game industry should do the same -- game publishers have gotten on board, and so should game retailers.
A plus side of this, for those that wish the ommunity to protect the precious moral fiber of their children, is that there would be a disincentive to produce games with 'objectionable' material. There's a very real reason that the movie industry bothers to publish PG13 titles... catch the drift?
TFA is misleading... (Score:3, Informative)
According the to the bill folks 18 and over can buy or rent anything they want.
Re:Governor who? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Governor who? (Score:2)
Unless I'm crazy or just dead wrong, states are incorporated.
Re:Governor who? (Score:2)
Re:diputs reggin (Score:3)
ACCEPT != EXCEPT
Re:I don't understand the problem (Score:2)
Which is by the retailer with no force of law behind it.
Re:N/T (Score:2, Insightful)