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United States Operating Systems Software The Almighty Buck Windows Your Rights Online

Federal Grant Applications to Require Windows 78

Posted by timothy from the please-don't-blame-this-on-the-free-market dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Grants.gov requires MS Windows to apply for a Federal grant. This will eventually replace all Federal grant application processes. If the federal government does not change this policy and allow multiple operating systems to work with the application process, it will effectively be a Microsoft tax on Federal grant money. You must purchase (or acquire by other means) Microsoft Windows to apply for a Federal grant. There are currently web based Federal grant application processes that work on multiple platforms. However, they will be moving to the new system that requires Windows. I recommend writing your federal representative and senators. Resources provided by public funding should be OS independent."
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Federal Grant Applications to Require Windows More

Federal Grant Applications to Require Windows

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  • Quit WhINEing.
    • *Turns on Sarcastic Voice*

      This guy is right. Its not our job to support what we believe in. Its our job to be quiet and let corporate america and the government do what they want cause thats what good citizens do!

    • Re:Oh for God's sake (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tacocat ( 527354 )

      Cute line, but you're being an ass.

      This is an excellent point and needs more consideration than you are willing to give it. If I go to a University, they may require Windows. But they have a few things different from the Government.

      1. You signed up for going to that University. No one asked me in the birth canal.
      2. You can ask beforehand if they have a Windows only policy. I don't recall that conversation in the womb.
      3. They offer computer labs with Windows. Where are the US Government supplied computers a
    • Quit WhINEing.

      Point taken (for what it was worth - i.e. not much). I get very tired of the message that "We do not support Linux/OS X/BSD/alternative operating system of your choice". OK, I am not a denizen of the US, but common sense says to me that this requirement on the part of the Grants office is inequitable.

      Personally, my faith is not in politicians, so I wouldn't bother canvassing them to redress the balance, but if I had a stake in this I would consider legal action against the authority. The mill

  • Mail (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Pinefresh ( 866806 ) <william DOT simpson AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @09:17PM (#12288219)
    It seems like there would be a way to apply by mail. If not, then this doesn't matter, since you already must purchase (or acquire by other means) a computer.

    • Re:Mail (Score:3, Insightful)

      by node 3 ( 115640 )
      It seems like there would be a way to apply by mail.

      TFA doesn't point to a mail-in form, or even mention the existance of one. It does, however, state, "You will submit the application online."

      If not, then this doesn't matter, since you already must purchase (or acquire by other means) a computer.

      No one is complaining here that you have to buy or acquire a computer, but that you have to buy or acquire a Windows computer. Not only did you not RTFA, but you didn't even RTF slashdot summary.
      • actually I read both. my point that a computer being a prerequisite to a federal grant is exactly as unfair as a computer being a prerequiste to a federal grant. I suppose I didn't spell things out as clearly as I should have, I assumed that most people at slashdot are smart enough to understand what I was trying to say. I hope this clarifys things for you.
        • I hope this clarifys things for you.

          Actually, it doesn't...

          my point that a computer being a prerequisite to a federal grant is exactly as unfair as a computer being a prerequiste to a federal grant

          OK, that's logical and all. A=A. But this isn't A=A, it's A (you need a computer) and B (you need a Windows computer). In this case, A!=B.

        • Re:Mail (Score:3, Funny)

          by RealityMogul ( 663835 )
          Yes, everybody but node3 understands what you mean. But since this is /. we have agreed to only bitch about any usage of Windows, and not the sacred computer itself. Its in the TOS somewhere.
        • Perhaps you haven't heard yet, but it there are computers being sold today without Windows. There are even computers being sold on which Windows will not ever run.

          Yes, you are correct that requiring a computer at all is perhaps unfair, although in reality most federal grant applicants will probably need to have a computer anyway. However, the ADDITIONAL requirement of having Windows is not merely unfair, but pointlessly so (as proven by the fact that many of the current systems this is supposed to replace
    • But I bought a Mac.
    • We don't seem to generally complain too much when government processes require the use of a telephone. Or postal mail. Both of which cost you money. Both of which seem to be reasonable ways of conducting business with anyone including the government.

      I don't have a problem with the government conducting business on the Internet, as long as it doesn't require Windows. The government doesn't require you to use a particular brand of envelopes or paper or pen for snail mail, you are not required to use ce

  • Mac support (Score:5, Informative)

    by avalys ( 221114 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @09:19PM (#12288233)
    If you click the "PureEdge for Mac" link, you'll see that their solution to supporting Macs is having you buy Virtual PC.

    • Re:Mac support (Score:5, Insightful)

      by shufler ( 262955 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @09:46PM (#12288433) Homepage
      The parent was modded Informative, however a few more points need to be considered:



      This means you are now paying Microsoft for Windows AND the program to get it running on your Mac. Perhaps Mac owners can afford to do this.
      • It may be that a research shop that uses Macs could afford to do this, but considering that I've heard of research groups choosing Macs because they can be cheaper after you factor in the cost of custom software development, I doubt that that is necessarily the case.

        Besides, you could probably pick up an eMachine or similar for less than the cost of a copy of VirtualPC and a copy of Windows.

  • contact info link (Score:5, Informative)

    by bersl2 ( 689221 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @09:23PM (#12288271) Journal
    http://grants.gov/ContactUs [grants.gov]

    Let 'em have it.

    • Re:contact info link (Score:5, Informative)

      by WhiteBandit ( 185659 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @10:07PM (#12288610) Homepage
      Sent the following email to support@grants.gov [mailto], as well as my local representative. We'll see what happens:

      Hello,

      I'm writing to protest that the website Grants.Gov requires Microsoft Windows to apply for a federal grant, effectively placing a sort of "Microsoft Tax" on all grant applications.

      Interestingly enough, there is link on the website entitled, "PureEdge Support for Macintosh" which opens up the following PDF: http://grants.gov/GrantsGov_UST_Grantee/!SSL!/WebH elp/MacSupportforPureEdge.pdf

      This PDF states that you can use VirtualPC on your Macintosh to apply for a grant.

      VirtualPC is also a Microsoft Program, which requires you to buy VirtualPC ($129 base price) in addition to Microsoft Windows! It's downright ridiculous, especially since Apple users are basically being charged twice to apply for a grant.

      VirtualPC Link: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/vi rtualpc.aspx

      I hope something can be done about this situation. Thank you.
      • It'd be almost Orweillian, and yet sickly appropriate, if Microsoft Word crashed while you were writing that letter.

        • I'm afraid I don't own Microsoft Windows.

          Perhaps I could apply for a Federal Grant, to fund the purchase of a new machine with it installed?

      • This is the mail I sent:

        I would like to apply for a grant to buy Windows computers for my school. Can you give me the grant money now, so I can apply, as Windows is required for application? I promise I'll pay you back if I get turned down.

    • Re:contact info link (Score:5, Funny)

      by Omega Hacker ( 6676 ) <omega@omega[ ]net ['cs.' in gap]> on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @10:16PM (#12288680)

      Thanks. You prompted me to finally get off my butt for once and write something up. Here it is:

      I was thrilled to discover that should I ever need to apply for a Federal grant, I must give my hard-earned money to Microsoft, before I am even allowed to view the application, let alone fill it in.

      Good to see that the government really does take its own judicial rulings seriously, and really puts the clamps on a (twice) convicted monopolist.

      It's also good to see that the government communicates smoothly and efficiently, so that when the Office of Management and Budget requires that all new government purchase *not* require specific brands (such as Microsoft) when there is no reason whatsoever to do so, and the Department of Homeland Security *STRONGLY* suggests that people avoid Microsoft software in any situation where security is even remotely important (like say submarines <cough>), other branches of government actually pay attention and adjust their practices accordingly.

      And I'm glad to be informed that Adobe Acrobat, which is available for all major platforms, is shockingly not sufficient for the process of filling out forms on the computer. I never would have guessed, having done my taxes via that method just days ago.

      Oh, and you might be glad to have me tell you that this message is *dripping* with sarcasm. Very appropriately deserved sarcasm, for a very stupid, wasteful, and inappropriate decision to require Windows.

      Thanks for spending my tax dollars so wisely! (sarcasm again, in case you somehow missed it)
    • Hello,

      I'd like to apply for a grant to enable the grants.gov grant application
      process to be platform independent so applicants using non-Microsoft
      operating systems can apply on an equal footing with Microsoft
      customers.

      But I can't because I don't have any Microsoft operating systems.
      Am I required to pay Microsoft to get eCitizen support?
    • I received a reply today, the contents follow: Dear Mr. ....., Thank you for your recent inquiry to Grants.gov concerning the Pure Edge viewer. Grants.gov has been working with Pure Edge to offer a viewer that is compatible with as many operating systems as possible. We feel that we are not too far from achieving that goal, and when we do, be sure that information will be posted on our website. In the meantime, we apologize if the viewer options we offer for your operating system are not acceptable.
      • Oops, I forgot to format it. Sorry.

        Dear Mr. ......,

        Thank you for your recent inquiry to Grants.gov concerning the Pure Edge viewer.

        Grants.gov has been working with Pure Edge to offer a viewer that is compatible with as many operating systems as possible. We feel that we are not too far from achieving that goal, and when we do, be sure that information will be posted on our website. In the meantime, we apologize if the viewer options we offer for your operating system are not acceptable. Our goal

    • I sent them an email yesterday, and this was their response:

      Dear Mr. Lesniak,

      Thank you for your recent inquiry to Grants.gov concerning the Pure Edge viewer.
      Grants.gov has been working with Pure Edge to offer a viewer that is compatible with as many operating systems as possible. We feel that we are not too far from achieving that goal, and when we do, be sure that information will be posted on our website. In the meantime, we apologize if the viewer options we offer for your operating system are not ac

    • The actual address is support@grants.gov [mailto]

      I just emailed them the following:

      I do not have a Windows computer. I do not have access to a Windows computer. I would be willing to start a group to port your PureEdge Viewer application to Linux and/or other operating systems such as Solaris (Sun).

      I object to the government requiring the use of specific and costly COTS software in order to access and use a public function.

      I heartily agree with the suggestion that /. readers should email the govt en mass

  • One step forward, one step back (Score:4, Insightful)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @09:27PM (#12288304) Homepage Journal
    Just after the federal government emphasized the importance of being brand-neutral in purchasing (i.e., don't specify Intel chips when AMD will do the job), they turn around and do essentially the opposite with grants.

    Sure, it's two totally different arms of the a giant bureaucracy.
    • http://grants.gov/GSIAbout [grants.gov]

      I think there was a period for taking comments (end of the plan document), but no one mentioned ability to be cross-platform.
    • This reminds me of a cartoon I saw once.
      There were two disembodied hands at a desk, the left is juggling with a few balls, and the right has a piece of paper on which it was scrawling in angry writing "tonight the left hand gets it. die die DIE!"
      • There were two disembodied hands at a desk, the left is juggling with a few balls,
        Government grant for surfing pr0n?

      • I believe it was a Far Side cartoon, and the hands weren't disembodied, but attached to some poor unsuspecting schmuck.

        But yeah, that pretty much describes our government.

        Dan Aris

  • Write and complain (Score:5, Informative)

    by Holi ( 250190 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @09:35PM (#12288359)
    Here is the the contact info

    Grants.gov Program Management Office Mailing Address:

    200 Independence Avenue, SW
    HHH Building, Room 739F
    Washington, DC 20201

    Grants.gov Contact Center Phone Number: 1-800-518-4726

    • 200 Independence Avenue, SW

      Question to grammar/language nazis: isn't THAT irony (in relation to the submitted story)?
    • Last night I wrote them a quick email to show my feelings, this morning I got a reply:

      Thanks you for your recent inquiry to Grants.gov concerning the Pure Edge viewer.

      Grants.gov has been working with Pure Edge to offer a viewer that is compatible with as many operating systems as possible. We feel that we are not too far from achieving that goal, and when we do, be sure that information will be posted on our website. In the meantime, we apologize if the viewer options we offer for your operating system

  • Lets see (Score:5, Informative)

    by dtfinch ( 661405 ) * on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @09:36PM (#12288367) Journal
    run installer in wine
    wait a long long while
    when the error dialog pops up, do not close it yet
    find the windows temp directory (example: /home/david/.wine/drive_c/windows/temp), and make a copy of the pftbdb~tmp
    you may close the installer
    open a terminal and cd to the copy of the temp install director you just created
    install "unshield" if you do not already have it
    $ mkdir data1
    $ unshield -d data1 x data1.cab
    $ cd data1/Java_Classes
    $ ls
    WTF!?? It's Java, but with tons of Windows dependencies.

  • You have not spent enough time in Washington. (Score:3, Funny)

    by mbstone ( 457308 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @10:44PM (#12288901)
    1. Purchase copy of Windows.
    2. Mark up copy of Windows and bill Uncle Sam.
    3. Profit!!
  • from the please-don't-blame-this-on-the-free-market dept.

    Oh, but we will.....

  • Logical Fallacy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DustMagnet ( 453493 ) * on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @10:57PM (#12289002) Journal
    Just because the current grants.gov requires Windows and all federal grants will eventually use grants.gov, does not mean that eventually they will all require Windows.

    I'll be much happier when NASA doesn't require sending physical paper (15+ copies!).

  • A little Googling (Score:5, Informative)

    by mchawi ( 468120 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2005 @11:13PM (#12289138)
    http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:OTOiWnGpzuMJ: www.grants.gov/assets/MinutesJune.doc+pureedge+rea der+linux&hl=en&client=firefox-a/ [64.233.187.104]

    The article states:

    Q: Is PureEdge going to be available on the Macintosh and Linux platforms soon?

    A: We hope that over the next nine months to a year, we will be able to serve the Macintosh and Linux users. It is currently supporting both Netscape and Explorer.

    Some of the PureEdge products say they support Linux / Unix / Windows - so the reader might already support it. It's hard to tell though, since their website kind of sucks.

  • EFF (Score:4, Insightful)

    by xgamer04 ( 248962 ) <xgamer04NO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Wednesday April 20, 2005 @05:19AM (#12290634)
    If this actually happens (which it hopefully won't), I'll definitely be donating heavily to the EFF and encouraging them to file suit against the gov.

  • Reply from grants.gov (Score:5, Informative)

    by LordNimon ( 85072 ) on Wednesday April 20, 2005 @08:12AM (#12291149)
    I also sent them a nasty email, and this is the reply I got:

    Thank you for your recent inquiry to Grants.gov concerning the Pure Edge viewer.

    Grants.gov has been working with Pure Edge to offer a viewer that is compatible with as many operating systems as possible. We feel that we are not too far from achieving that goal, and when we do, be sure that information will be posted on our website. In the meantime, we apologize if the viewer options we offer for your operating system are not acceptable. Our goal is to ensure the widest possible acceptance of Grants.gov and certainly not to exclude anyone from the electronic grants submission process. To that end, as a first step, we ensured that the Pure Edge viewer will work with a Windows emulator program, as described on our website.

    Grants.gov employs the PureEdge Viewer 6.0 for viewing and completing application forms. The PureEdge viewer's 508 compliance is described at http://www.pureedge.com/products/products/PureEdge AccessibilityGuide.pdf. Grants.gov sponsored testing of the PureEdge viewer demonstrated the viewer's compatibility with the widely used Jaws screen reader. An enhanced version of the PureEdge Viewer that will include compatibility with a broader range of screen reader products through support for industry standard interfaces for accessibility is in the process of being tested and upon successful completion of testing will be posted to the site.

    Feel free to contact us should you have further inquiries.

    • Re:Reply from grants.gov (Score:2, Interesting)

      by turbosk ( 73287 ) *
      I just did get off the phone with a wonderful person named Estelle (sp?) at the grants.gov phone #, and she cheerfully took my complaint and made an effort to be most helpful and polite. She did say they "have received many emails today for some reason" :)

      I suggested they use PDF, and I see from your comment that PureEdge uses it "....oducts/PureEdge AccessibilityGuide.pdf" and complained about the MS lock-in system that grants.gov has right now. She read me the standard reply they send all the emails.

      Any
    • I sent them a "not so nasty" email, and got the same response as above. I was about to post it here, actually. I knew that the reply came too fast... I got the automated reply, and then this came a few minutes later. Of course now I see it was another automated reply...

  • I need a grant to buy Windows (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Dear Government:

    I am the head librarian for AnyTown's public libraries. Last fall, we outfitted all of our libraries with state of the art PCs running the Linux operating system.

    Many of our patrons depend on us to apply for federal grants.

    We currently have 30 workstations spread over 4 sites. To convert each workstation to Windows will cost $4500 in licensing fees plus an estimated $2000 in employee time and $2000 in training costs.

    Where can I apply for a government grant to cover this cost?

    Sincere
  • "the left hand doesn't know what the right foot is doing". Between OMB and DHS, you'd think, wrongly, that they'd understand not to do this sort of thing. If you did think that, you might also the government exists for your benefit and not the other way around. Silly theorist...
  • They do point you towards WINE. They're not the bad guys you think they are.

    http://grants.gov/DownloadViewer [grants.gov]

    Take a look for yourselves, call customer support. They gave me a tutorial even on installing WINE!
  • Al Gore is on Apple's board of Directors. I'm sure he has contacts.

    There's no reason this all can't be done on the web. There are existing accessibility solutions for web browsing, so I don't want to hear that lame excuse.

    Go git 'em, Al!

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