Best Buy: 20% Of Customers Are Wrong 1234
Mr Show writes "Ars Technica has an article up discussing Best Buy's strategies to drive off the deal hunters. It's a good follow up to the Slashdot story from back in July, and offers some details on what they're actually trying to do."
Best Buy's Reward Zone now ignores rebates (Score:5, Informative)
I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder to myself ... what customer gave feedback that they wanted to the program to be more difficult to earn rewards?
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Interesting)
Example:
Dear Comcast Customer, you can now pick from an exciting new cable package with more home shopping channels plus the Hallmark channel! Try not to notice that it's $10 more expensive than you are used to paying.
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Insightful)
"We promise you that you will not get another rate hike for another year."
Actually they're promising that they'll raise my rates again exactly one year from now!
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Funny)
In my local supermarket, they've put anti-theft devices on one wheel of each shopping cart. It makes the wheel lock up if you remove the shopping cart from the parking lot.
My favorite part about it is they sign they have posted letting people know about this feature. The sign prominently says that this is "for the convenience of the customer". Yeah, it's a great convenience for me --- for years I've been wishing they'd put an anti-theft gizmo on the shopping cart wheels; it's been such an inconvenience without it. Those marketing folks just have to squeeze their crap in wherever they can, huh?
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Informative)
Insightful? I think not.
Re:shopping cart cost... (Score:4, Insightful)
Have a look at your neighborhood shopping cart. Those chrome plated wire mesh suckers with a weld at every joint. Take the time to sit in one and roll around. I don't know what they are rated for but they can support the weight of two adults easily (don't ask). These suckers are not cheap, think $500/$1000 a unit easily. They don't look like much but alot of work goes into that shopping cart.
Re:Shopping cart madness (Score:5, Informative)
The area where I work had this problem; the scrote housing down the road had shopping trolleys lying about on street corners where they'd simply been discarded, having finished being useful. They'd get wrecked, dragging into the canal, littered about on the industrial estate...
You have to understand just what animals some people are, and how little concern they have for anyone or anything outside what they want to understand why supermarkets do this. They have absolutely no regard for the expensive involved for the shop or the inconvenience for customers for whom there are no longer enough trolleys.
They won't even push them back the next time they go, because it's uphill and now they let go of the trolley, it's not even "not their problem" anymore. It's not even in their environment.
So Asda bought a whole new fleet of shopping trolleys along with the wheel locks and little red "don't cross" lines.
Net effect is that at least most of the trolleys are abandoned at the red lines now... although we STILL find them in the industrial estate, lying wrecked where they were abandoned because they'd made it down the hill that far before getting bored of dragging something with one locked wheel...
The trolleys are, actually, quite expensive. The stores cannot afford to go around giving away a "disposable" 200 pound trolley with every tenth purchase of a bag of potatoes.
Think of it as a tragedy of the commons thing - some people are such mindless thugs, they can't be trusted to borrow and return a shopping trolley and they've wrecked it for everyone else.
Re:Shopping cart madness (Score:4, Insightful)
ALWAYS!
Do you know why? In order to get a cart you have to put a quarter into the lock to get them out. When you are done, you can get that quarter back if you put your cart back. Only if you put the cart back.
What does that tell you about humans and their values?
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Funny)
1. $125
2. $2500
3. $5000
4. $10000
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this representative of a trend away from PDAs, perhaps as a result of more-capable cell phones? Or has Best Buy just decided there isn't enough money to be made in this market?
I left without buying anything. I used to go to Best Buy because, in a pinch, I could find just about anything I needed. If this is part of a trend away from that "we have everything" approach I'm willing to bet that they're going to lose a lot of traffic in their stores.
If all they're interested in is selling $10,000 home theaters I think you're going to see a lot of Best Buys closing down within a few years. Sure, there's a lot of margin on those big-tickets but the volume isn't there to support stores of the size that Best Buy runs.
Re:I love the letter that announced that change (Score:4, Insightful)
You're over-simplifying. Define "fair price." How do you know that the current prices are not "fair?" If they are able to produce increased profits year-over-year, instead of just continually breaking-even, does that mean they're "ripping you off?" Should a company be content with simply breaking-even, or holding steady at 5% profit every year?
Now the big question: Should the shareholders be happy? You want to retire someday, don't you? Presumeably, you'll invest in stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. You'll demand what you consider a "reasonable" rate of return on those stocks and mutual funds, right? What's "reasonable?" It has to be better than savings bonds or GICs, so we're talking at least 6-8%. How is a privately held company supposed to increase its stock price continually by 8% annually? Answer: By continually increasing profits.
See, people like you fail to see the big picture. You want to have your cake and eat it too. You don't want companies you BUY from to make any profit at all, yet you want companies you will INVEST in to beat the market and allow you to retire in comfort. I'm guessing you're presently not too involved in investing? Perhaps you're unaware that these evil, faceless "shareholders" that everyone is always villainizing are mostly just ordinary folks like you, me, and our parents, trying to make enough money to survive in retirement.
Re:Best Buy's Reward Zone now ignores rebates (Score:4, Insightful)
The best example is when buying a video game. I go in to pick up GTA:SA, get the game, and get one of their 'Gamer Giftcards' (a coupon on the back of the case gives you 5 dollars off a game price $20 dollars or more). You go up to the register and make a pile for the gift card, and then leave the out of reach of the clerk. You buy the gift card using your Best Buy CC, putting fifty bucks on the card. This gives you $100 dollars towards the new minimum. You then take the gift card and the aforementioned coupon from the gift card case and proceed to check out with the game. The coupon from the back of the gift card takes care of tax (effectively) and you use your reward zone card with the gift card to buy the game, giving you $150 towards the new minimum and earning you $5 in Best Buy bucks for a $50 dollar purchase.
The decent clerks just get pissed about having to do two transactions and send you on your way, but the extra time this takes is more than made up for by the joy in watching someone who takes clerkin' at Best Buy way too seriously scan your cards over and over again trying to figure out a way to prevent you from doing this. I love leaving their checkout and looking back at the line that has formed behind me while I give them the old lady with a coupon act.
Just out of spite, any purchase over 20 bucks now results in a gift card purchase first.
Re:Best Buy's Reward Zone now ignores rebates (Score:4, Informative)
Reward Zone Program
Reward Zone program membership fee is $9.99 for a 1-year membership. It is available to U.S. residents 13 years of age or older. Reward Zone lets you earn points towards reward certificates, which are redeemable towards future in-store purchases. Points are not awarded for online purchases, prior purchases, Gift Cards, sales tax, shipping charges and restocking fees. Full program rules are available in store or at www.MyRewardZone.com.
source [bestbuy.com]
Re:Best Buy's Reward Zone now ignores rebates (Score:4, Funny)
Only 20%? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Only 20%? (Score:4, Interesting)
Absolutely no way they'd let me exchange an unopened video recorder to buy a more expensive one.
So the clerk said. Walking up to any manager, however, quickly reveals that common sense prevails.
Wear a Name tag! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wear a Name tag! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wear a Name tag! (Score:5, Interesting)
"If the customer was always right, he/she wouldn't need me."
I definitely tell my customers when I think that they are wrong about something, respectfully of course. Customers pay *me* to be right. Yes, my customer base is growing largely on the basis of customer referrals.
But Best Buy is doing something different and extremely counterproductive. The customer might not always be right about the technology, or other things where they pay an expert, but the customer is *always* the expert on the customer's needs. Best Buy is second-guessing the customer's intentions and integrity. If you are hostile towards your customers (like the ??AA) your revenues will shrink, and you will find yourself in a viscious cycle fighting with your customers and losing money in the process!
Re:Wear a Name tag! (Score:5, Insightful)
Several years back, when the Diamond was a big name in the video card market, and 3dfx was the king of the hill, I frequented comp.hardware.ibm.pc.video -- many of the forum regulars made no bones about the fact that they were devil customers: They purposefully would "buy" a video card, hold it for just under the return period, and then return it. They'd get a full refund of their original purchase price which they'd use to buy whatever was new (again starting the return clock anew). These customers are hugely costly for retailers -- it would be better not to have them as customers (in fact you wish them on your competitors). This sort of person will rationalize their behaviour (much like the cable modem user who rationalizes saturating their connection 24 hours a day) under the guise of "if they let me, let them suck it!", but the end result is naturally restrictive policies that hurt everyone because of the abuses of a few. Simliarly it isn't cost effective to have customers who'll bogart your salespeople's time for hours while they ruminate over a trivial decision -- one which they'll likely recant on, reappearing in your returns line. These people do exist.
Re:Wear a Name tag! (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of instituting things like "restocking fees" and draconian return policies which effect ALL customers, both angels and devils, why doesn't Best Buy actually institute policies to address the core problem.
If people are buying items, collecting rebates, and returning them, why doesn't Best Buy just deduct the amount of the rebate from the credit? Simply match up an ID number on the return receipt with an ID number from the submitted rebate receipt. If the rebate has been submitted but not processed, simply flag the rebate in the system as denied, so the person doesn't receive the rebate after the fact.
Those are just two ideas off the top of my head that will solve the problem without alienating your "good" customers.
Re:Wear a Name tag! (Score:4, Informative)
Personally, I think that an instant rebate with the deduction at checkout would eliminate the buy-and-return. But that would make it so everyone would actually get the rebate, and they don't want that.
Not an upsatanding policy (Score:5, Interesting)
This is yet another attempt to dumb down consumers to make the more receptive to truly weak sales pitches. Best Buy won't be getting any more of my business if they value this philosophy.
Re:Not an upsatanding policy (Score:5, Insightful)
Reverse psychology ;-) (Score:4, Funny)
Best Buy Guy (Sounding like Mr. Burns): "Excellent"
Not upstanding? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't even stretch to call people who would do this shoppers. Thats not looking for the best deal, thats borderline robbery. If you engage in that sort of activity, I'm sure you promising to never shop there again is exactly what they want. Win/win.
Re:Not upstanding? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't even stretch to call people who would do this shoppers. Thats not looking for the best deal, thats borderline robbery. If you engage in that sort of activity, I'm sure you promising to never shop there again is exactly what they want.
No I don't do that kind of stuff. I was referring more to the other parts.
They load up on "loss leaders," severely discounted merchandise designed to boost store traffic, then flip the goods at a profit on eBay.
That's not robbery. It's called commerce. Buy low, sell high. Nothing illegal or shady about it at all. Is Best Buy saying they don't want any of their customers to be able to sell any of the things they purchase?
And then this:
They slap down rock-bottom price quotes from Web sites and demand that Best Buy make good on its lowest-price pledge.
Why even have a lowest price pledge if you aren't going to honor it?
Sorry but Best Buy is not the injured party here. They are simply bitching because selling to consumers who exercise some initiative makes it slightly less easy for them to earn maximum profit.
Re:Not upstanding? (Score:4, Insightful)
The purpose of a "low price guarantee" like that is ensuring that your prices are competitive. The problem comes in when someone can find a quote at a particularly shady outfit [pricegrabber.com] on Pricewatch or Pricegrabber, favorites of companies who deal in subpar and even stolen goods. The linked company was just the first in the list on a quick search for "lowest ratings" on Pricegrabber; there are pages upon pages more.
Anyhow, as I was saying: the problem comes in when I can get a price quote from some guy selling stolen goods out of his room in the basement of his Mom's house, then take that to Best Buy and demand they give me the same price. That's just unfair. Best Buy may be a buy-low-sell-high retailer out to make money, but they're following the letter of the law. Taking advantage of that seems like a devil to me.
Re:Not upstanding? (Score:5, Interesting)
Best Buy's CEO (or one of the chiefs) is a firm believer that one of the best ways to boost profitability is to reduce the customers that don't make you any money and provide excellent service to those who make you tons. It's a bit like the difference between a Nordstrom's and Wal-Mart (grew up in the NW so Nordy's was the only high end retailer for a long time). One has free coffee, and salesfolk who kiss your butt. The other is doing volume business. The former makes up the services they offer with a markup, the latter makes a smaller margin on each sale, but has much, much lower overhead so they each net about the same amount on each dollar spent. Best Buy's goal is to become more like Nordstrom's but without pricing themselves out of the latter market. This is a very tall order, and we won't know if they succeeded for about a decade.
If it wasn't over in the Ars article, the WSJ (free today) has an excellent article about the whole topic. It's available here. [wsj.com]
Re:Not upstanding? (Score:5, Insightful)
I used an ad to get a price match at a retailer that I will not name. The competitor was local, and they DID have the item in stock. The salesdrone asked me "Well, why didn't you buy it there?" as if I were annoying him just by trying to spend my money there.
So, why didn't you buy it there? Reward the retailer who was willing to discount without any prodding.
Often, if you take advantage of price matching, the retailer then goes back to his supplier and puts pressure on the supplier to stop supplying the usually-smaller business that is undercutting him. This happens all the time.
I believe there is an ethical problem with taking advantage of price matching. Just go buy it at the better price. If you doon't want to deal with the person making the lower price, pay the higher price. Don't punish the person competing and thus keeping prices low.
Re:Not upstanding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not upstanding? (Score:5, Insightful)
CompUSA and Best Buy cater to rich gadget freaks and clueless newbies because THEY are the kinds of people who will pay retail price and leave the store without thinking twice about it. The math is simple here... Higher product profit margins plus lower sales staffing costs equals MORE MONEY FOR THEM. By ignoring savvy shoppers like you, they're actually increasing their profits in the long run.
Why even have a lowest price pledge? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's all economics. Game theory, to be precise.
In a game where price is the only determining factor between two goods, and you have at least one competitor, you are forced to sell your good at rock-bottom prices, or they'll go to another store. Thus, the Nash equilibrium of this game is that you all have to sell the item for no profit (assuming you all get it for the same price--otherwise, you just undercut the next lowest bid by one cent or the least you can & steal all their customers).
Now then, when you introduce this pledge, it turns out that all the people selling the product can, in effect, collude and sell it for a higher price! Sadly, I forget all the details of how it works out in recalculating the Nash equilibrium, and my game theory textbook is probably propping something up just now (sorry, I took that class quite a while ago now--the textbook on it is nowhere to be found). However, I can tell you for sure that this was one of their examples on how "hyper-competetive" seeming strategies can actually be anti-competetive in effect.
The good news? They're not the only ones who can change the rules, as we saw from some of the ways people got back at them. In fact, the article mentioned one person doing this to buy things at a loss from them just because they wanted to hurt the store (this in the Wall Street Journal article I saw in a comment here).
It's funny, too, because one of the other quotes was from them worrying that culturally, they might be seen as consumer-hostile. A worry it would seem is well-founded, given how many people seem to hate that store.
Upstanding but treacherous (Score:5, Interesting)
We all know that rebates will most likely NOT get sent in, extra money for them... Most people will buy the service policy AND throw the unit away when it breaks 6mos. later. Don't fall for these stunts... That's the best way to transmit the message to the Best Buy management. Punish them on the bottom line. That's all they've thought of, so it must be important to them. Show them that you are watching too. Say "NO" to the service plan, no matter how many times they ask, then walk out without purchasing anything when they try again (for the 4th time).
Secondly, there must be a supplier SOMEWHERE that treats the customer like they're smart and offers a fair deal without the tricks. Seems like that merchant should be looked to as the "place where cool & tech. savy people" shop. That would help boost their sales as almost EVERYONE would want to be flattered by being thought of as "hip" and "tech. savy" just for shopping there. You get the idea, it spirals up... Help those places to succeed!
Changing this works a little like the election strategy, when you get another customer to switch, you actually hurt Best Buy TWICE! Once when they lose the customer, and again when they vote with their dollars for the competition, making them relativly weaker in the marketspace.
Anyone reading this, start the change by putting down some places where you've felt like you got an AWESOME deal without any tricks, from a sales guy that you trusted and who didn't try to sell you with a bunch of technobabble (that you know is false). The list of Cool places to shop starts here --> (you reply)
Re:Upstanding but treacherous (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.newegg.com/
Re:Upstanding but treacherous (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Upstanding but treacherous (Score:4, Informative)
As for online stores, I second the vote for newegg. They consistently have among the best prices of any reputable online reseller, and their service is always top notch.
Re:Not an upsatanding policy (Score:4, Interesting)
WSJ has more on this too... (Score:5, Interesting)
cLive ;-)
Re:WSJ has more on this too... (Score:5, Informative)
Not plagiarism so much as piss-poor editing.
Best Buy is not that evil... (Score:4, Insightful)
The devils are its worst customers. They buy products, apply for rebates, return the purchases, then buy them back at returned-merchandise discounts.
Kudos to the people who figured this out, but clearly it is costing Best Buy money. These are customers that should be weeded out. It's Best Buy's fault for allowing this scenario to happen.
Once someone discovers something that is "too good to be true" like the returning scenario, many people start doing it, and the company catches on. Since they're losing money, they stop it.
The other things in TFA, like profiling customers and selling them what their profile dictates is just common sales practice. Sure they might be forcing people to get things they might not want/need, but then again, when was the last time a sales person tried to sell you something you don't need (car options, clothes, dinner specials, etc). It's the nature of capitalism to increase the profits.
Re:Best Buy is not that evil... (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankly, if they're not being evil, they're atleast being a bit cheeky. From TFA:
They ["devils"] slap down rock-bottom price quotes from Web sites and demand that Best Buy make good on its lowest-price pledge.
If they don't want to sell things at the lowest-price, then they shouldn't pledge to. Problem solved. But of course, that's no good, because what they really want is to give people the perception that they can get things for the lowest prices, without actually following through on it. My heart bleeds for them.
Re:Best Buy is not that evil... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or Best Buy could just stop trying to fool their customers into thinking that they are getting a deal when they are really being screwed over. If Best Buy did not have crazy rebates, then they wouldn't be having people abuse them.
It's like how Microsoft claims to lose money on each XBox sold. If people buying XBoxes to use as MythTV frontends costs Microsoft money, then maybe Microsoft should quit subsidizing the XBox. Problem solved.
Personally, I think that customers buying Best Buy products purely for the rebates is great. It helps make up for the fact that 80+% of all rebates go unredeemed. Note that even if you subtract out the returned products from the sales and still include those rebates as redeemed, they still make up a redemption rate of less than 50%. Perhaps Best Buy will eventually drop rebates and just lower their ridiculous prices! Or they will just go out of business and I will continue to buy from Circuit City and the web. Either way works for me.
Glitch in the Matrix? (Score:5, Funny)
I think this explains alot...
Shady (Score:5, Interesting)
Best Buy's rebate scams are among the worst in the industry. I've been told that something would be free after rebate, only to find out the rebate expired a week before I purchased the item.
Those who know most issue recommendations (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Those who know most issue recommendations (Score:4, Insightful)
I've gotten in the habit of going to the local stores first, then Best Buy as a second choice (only if I need to.) I'm spending more money in some cases, and less money in others, but my overall satisfaction with my purchases is much higher.
And while some people seem to enjoy the game of shopping in a store with a knowledgable staff, then purchasing the product online at a steep discount, I'm not one of them. I know that when I went to National Camera to purchase my Canon G2 that the salesman helped me for over an hour (even while the store was packed with customers.) He showed me the details of each camera, options, discussed battery life, etc. I know I received at least $60 worth of advice from him that day, and purchasing the camera from him at their retail price was very much worth it to me.
The same experience has been true for me at other stores as well. I'm willing to pay for service, and I give out my recommendations commesurate with my experiences. As the family's "Tech Guru" my recommendations do carry some financial weight. Best Buy simply isn't my first choice for anything other than a simple "just get a little 13" TV at Best Buy" type recommendation.
I don't remember, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I don't remember, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
BUT we still hate BB for calling the cops on customers who ordered stuff on their website. [geek.com]
Re:I don't remember, but... (Score:4, Funny)
I stood about 10 feet away from this guy and seriously laughed out loud at him. He was visibly annoyed, but white collar dad was entranced. Oh well, it's not my job to save people from making dumb purchases. In this case, he suckered that guy into buying a computer, and all I can say is God bless him.
best way to deal with this (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and when you carry that cash, be extra cool and put the money in an aluminum briefcase that's handcuffed to your wrist.
Re:best way to deal with this (Score:5, Funny)
You: 662-352-0151 [66.35.250.151]
I've also given 66 dot 35 dot 250 dot 151 [66.35.250.151]
Clerk: Your phone number
Me: That is the number I use for voice communications
Clerk: No, your telephone number
Me: I don't use 20th century technology, get with the times.
Re:best way to deal with this (Score:4, Funny)
I've been to a best buy that wouldn't take cash unless I provided a picture ID.
Just hold up the $20 bill (or whatever) in front of your face and say, "Hi, I'm Andrew Jackson and I'm legal tender for all debts, public and private!"
Extended Warranty and Accessories (Score:5, Funny)
Well, there was one guy here who didn't get it, I heard something happened with his ears after he read the article and he was left helpless and with some HUGE bills. The bills were bigger than just getting the warranty and even more than a new article would have cost.
We were trained to recognize the people who would refuse extended warranties. They're like Barry's, but we call them Dingle Barry's since they're really like unwanted poop that clings to us. If you tell me one more time you're refusing the warranty, I'm going to get on my radio and "start combing out the 'barry's" so to speak.
well of course they are (Score:4, Insightful)
This is probably a very intelligent scheme, and certainly the first of many from America's electonic retailers.
"Pigeonholing Customers" (Score:5, Insightful)
As a young adult, I run into plenty of prejudice among employees and managers (though most of it is annoying rather than seriously detrimental). Would they look at me, and decide, "Here is a young person. He doesn't have a lot of money, so we're not going to waste time helping him find what he wants, since he probably couldn't afford it anyway."
What if they do the same thing based on ethnicity? or noticable disability? or a myriad of other potential factors that go into stereotyping?
All I can do is hope that the free market will sort things out, and prove to Best Buy that this policy is hurtful to customers.
Re:"Pigeonholing Customers" (Score:5, Interesting)
Having worked retail as a profession for 9 years, most sales staff do not have the ability to help me. They're not skilled enough. Therefore I have an easier time if they don't bother me. Luckily most of them do look at you and make decisions, so I usually use my "annoyed and disinterested" face to ward them off.
Most of the time I find consumers know more than the sales staff because the sales staff at most places are not paid high enough to have high quality sales staff.
Who needs the training? (Score:5, Insightful)
Shouldn't they be training them on the stuff they sell?
Everytime I go in there to buy a camera, I'm usually faced with a deer-in-headlights sales man who only know how to say, "I'm sure it's in the manual." And I end up helping the poor helpless chap next to me who thinks a 9 mega pixel still camera will produce wide screen movies!!
Get real Best Buy!
Extended Warranties (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Extended Warranties (Score:5, Informative)
And it doesn't "extend the warranty," it goes above and beyond what a manufacturer's warranty will cover. Just simply read the terms of both plans and tell me I'm wrong.
Obligatory Simpsons Quote (Score:5, Funny)
Back at Moe's Tavern, Moe begins to put the crayon in Homer's nose.
Moe: All right, tell me when I hit the sweet spot.
Homer: Deeper, you pusillanimous pilsner pusher!
Moe: All right, all right. [with a small hammer and chisel,
taps the crayon further up Homer's nose]
Homer: De-fense! [woof-woof] De-fense! [woof-woof]
Moe: Eh, that's pretty dumb. But, uh
Homer: Extended warranty? How can I lose?
Moe: Perfect.
Play Acting (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems that the publishing of this info is going to hurt Best Buy the most. If they were to target their *devil* customers and kept it on the lo-down, maybe nobody would have noticed. Having it on
Thanks for the idea about getting a rebate (although I still hate them) and then returning the product. That's a great plan. I'll be sure to try it out this weekend.
Re:Play Acting (Score:4, Funny)
No Sympathy (Score:4, Informative)
Wow (Score:5, Informative)
- Don't buy their "loss leaders", but stock up on their overpriced stuff.
- People who don't check other companies price, but get attracted by the "Best price policy"
- People who don't return their mail-in rebates.
Why don't you just ask me to give you my money?
On the Canadian side, FutureShop is exactly like that : Best price policy, overpriced stuff... and they "labeled" me a devil, for sure (a seller once "recognized" me : "Yes, I remember you...", first time I meet the guy). When price matching Camera-Canada for a new Canon G5, a seller even told me
-"I can't match that price, maybe remove 50$ off the total but that's it".
-"But your policy is to match the price, and remove 50% of the difference"
-"Yeah but I'll lose money that way!"
-"Well its not MY policy, isn't it?"
They promise you customer heaven, but slowly draggin you in hell. They're the devils, not us, the intelligent customers.
Best Buy may want to be careful (Score:5, Insightful)
I fit the profile of a "bad" customer: I watch the rebates and advertised prices and make sure I'm not paying more than I have to. They probably want to be rid of me. But, when it comes to computer parts and systems, a lot of my friends who fit the "good" BB profile come to me for a recommendation. If BestBuy's been pushing me out, you can bet I'm not going to recommend going to them. End result: annoying me, the "bad" customer, causes "good" customers to end up somewhere else.
Perfect timing (Score:5, Funny)
Clerk: I just added these for you.
Dad: Why?
Clerk: This is a UPS. It will protect you against power surges and lightning. And this will protect you against all those viruses.
Dad: I already have a surge protector.
Clerk: Surge protectors are useless against power surges.
[A moment of silence, no doubt induced by the store's mind-numbing window dressing]
Me: Just the computer will be fine.
Clerk: Okay, but if lightning hits it tonight and you bring it back to us tomorrow, we won't take it.
Dad: That's fine. I'll buy another one.
We proceed to checkout, where we are told that not purchasing a service plan puts our souls in danger of perdition, etc. My father has agreed to let me build his next computer.
Good ol' Dell (Score:5, Funny)
Man, Dell makes a living off being that girl that drops by 5 minutes after your girlfriend dumps you. And you wake up the next morning with a headache, an empty wallet, and a big smile.
Re:Good ol' Dell (Score:4, Funny)
Insurance/Warranty (Score:5, Interesting)
These "extended warranties" are an insurance policy. The buyer is buying insurance, not a warranty.
Question: why buy insurance if you can insure yourself. Think of it this way: most people could afford the loss that the insurance covers, so, if you really want to be anal about it, instead of buying the insurance, put the money into an account. Pretty soon, that account will have sufficient funds in it to cover any losses that you could possibly imagine an extended warranty covering. The difference is that it now YOUR MONEY, not the insurance companies'.
You will be in effect, your own insurance company.
There is a small, but finite chance that over the long term you will be worse off if you self insure, but I think most people would acknowledge that the risk is small in comparison to the gain.
Since, for many sales by Best Buy and others, there is no profit on the sale of the item itself and only the extended warranty provides all of the profit, that's why I will never be the sort of buyer Best Buy are looking for. Of course, I can always let a sales assistant THINK I'm going to buy the warranty, right up to the time comes to actually pay!
Re:Insurance/Warranty (Score:4, Interesting)
However, a few that I sold at radio shack were actually cashed in on.
One guy backed his truck over his laptop, we replaced it no questions asked.
Others would spill water/pop, drop them, jump on them, recover them from theft, you name it, and we would replace them all with no questions asked.
I sold those service plans like a mofo. That year I netted over $6000 in commission from service plans alone. They are so easy to sell it's insane.
Anyway, my point is that I've seen these payoff big time. Though a majority of my old customers probably never took advantage of the plan.
So, they can try doing this then.... (Score:5, Funny)
Salesguy: I won't sell it to you.
Customer: What? Why not? Isn't it the TV you advertised in this morning's paper as being on sale?
Salesguy: Yes, you see, that TV there is just a ploy to get you into the store. I'm not allowed to sell it to you, I'm supposed to convince you that this TV is just a "basic" model and this other TV we have here for $300 is much better.
Customer: I guess I'll just need to take my business elsewhere, then,
Salesguy: Good idea!
Profiling 101 (Score:5, Interesting)
The name of the store was "Computers Cheap!" which was a great draw for audience. We were the only guys in town who'd sell a used computer with warrantee.
But, with a name like "Computers Cheap!" you can be sure that we got plenty of people we called "bug people". Named after the nerdy entymologists on "Silence of the Lambs", they were people who had lots of time, and very little money. They were VERY good at wasting time and demanding refunds on used, "AS-IS" hardware that turned out not to work.
We built our own customer-filter - the $1 box. A box set in the corner, with a bright orange sign that said something like: "Wow! $1.00, no warrantee". It was filled with MFM hard drives, ancient motherboards, ISA video cards (when AGP had long since come out) and stuff that was generally worthless.
It was out of the way enough that you had to get down on your knees to get to it. It was also nearly 100% effective at identifying the "bug people".
It was incredible... over months and years we found that it was simply never wrong.
If you were caught kneeling in front of that box, you were immediately put on my "ignore" list. I'd be nice, but wouldn't give anything but a monosyllabic response from anyone.
On a side note, that $1 box came in real handy selling OEM copies of Windows legally. See, the contract requires that it be sold with a hard drive or motherboard. No mention of new/used, nor was there any requirement for a warrantee. So, we sold lots of copies of Windows with a used motherboard for $1....
Re:Profiling 101 (Score:5, Insightful)
That's pretty funny (and probably true, your post even puts a picture in my head... *shudder* :)
But there are actually legitimate reasons why people would want those sorts of components. Namely if you are a hardware experimenter. I bought a good number of pieces of "throwaway" equipment at Goodwill Computers in Austin because I wanted to rip a rare component off of it, take its connectors, or even just have a piece of test equipment (one of my projects involved building an ISA bus).
It had nothing to do with the price, I probably would have been willing to pay more than the going rate for an equivalent piece of modern equipment in some cases. Finding a store that actually stocks that stuff is pretty hard these days. After I moved away from Austin I ended up having to wait until I took a visit back there to get some stuff like that!
Re:Profiling 101 (Score:5, Interesting)
Eh. (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, something similar was posted on Fark a couple of hours ago, so I've already read it (given, at work.) Looks like it was a different article on the same topic.
From what I can tell, they're pissed off at people buying items, getting the rebates, then returning the items, and more. Basically, they're mad that people are turning a profit on stuff bought from a Best Buy store.
I've heard complaints and gripes about Best Buy all over. However, you get horror stories from every store, regardless of big name or how crappy it is.
Perhaps I'm biased, but I've never had a bad experience at a Best Buy. The one near where I live has gotten good recommendations from people, while the one near my college tries to skate around the extended warenties at all costs, among other things. But that's what I've heard from others, never experienced myself.
I worked at a Best Buy (the one near my home) for about three months (occasional/seasonal, in Computers.) I felt I was lucky in the fact the people I worked with actually knew a good amount about Computers, whereas other places have had general sales people. The atmosphere I worked in was nice one, everyone was helpful, and I can't remember having a bad day (not even Black Friday, but I was just a gopher then.)
Was I told to push the replacement plans/extended warrantees as often as possible? Try and get people to buy accessories? Try and sell services with computers? Yes on all accounts. But you know what, it's a business, they turn a profit with that, and they need the profit to counter the low profit they make off, say, video game consoles.
If you have that much of a beef with Best Buy, stop whining and just got shop NewEgg. I'll be browsing around Best Buy, using the sales and rebates as I like, and still getting a good experience. If I ever get a bad experience from a Best Buy, I'll just stop going to that one, but not the entire chain.
Umm... I don't think so. Try again. (Score:5, Informative)
Go ahead. Try this. Apply for the rebate (by submitting the UPC symbol) and then return the product. You can't.
Crap detector going off big time.
Re:Umm... I don't think so. Try again. (Score:5, Funny)
What if you're Jill stuck in Barry's body? (Score:4, Funny)
Have to go drop off the kids on my way to my Wall Street job in my brand new hovercar.
Later.
Let the SELLER beware (Score:5, Interesting)
What Best Buy and other corporations haven't figured out is that we, the buying public, don't have any sympathy for them. They've set the rules, and we will take them for everything we can get.
It would be different if it was a single owner. When I buy from a family-owned business down the street, I'm not going to cheat him; I will even pay more than the going rate, because I like the person and I like how the business is run. But when I buy from a corporation, the gloves are off. If they offer a half-price deal and forget to specify a limit -- fill the shopping cart! About 5 years ago, I figured out that they are trying to TAKE EVERY PENNY THEY CAN GET FROM ME, so I don't feel the slightest pang of conscience when doing the same back.
I'm not talking about stealing. I'm only saying that, when dealing with Circuit City or Best Buy or Dell or WalMart or Safeway or ToysRUs or Home Depot or anyone else, the megastores have lost all pretense of actually caring about their customers. It isn't even slightly dishonest to gouge them if they let you do it -- because they're gouging you with every means at their disposal. Try it -- you'll find you enjoy the challenge of sticking it to them!
(And yes, I'm sure I'm the devil incarnate for some stores I shop in.)
The only fair price is the lowest price (Score:4, Insightful)
I knew this would make them come out of the woodwork.....that certain demographic of people who somehow think that the only fair price, is the
There's more to shopping then just price folks, and that attitude is exactly what led us to the situation we find outselves into today. There used to be a large number, of helpfull, friendly, local audio / tv / computer stores....but over time people passed them up to go to a larger box store...then an even larger box store and now these.
What motivation does a business have to provide good service when they know their "clients" would abandon them in a heartbeat just to save a few pennies on the dollar? Then..
Hmm...hadn't meant to turn this into a rant...but I guess it just kinda headed that way.
-Chris
after tax rebat? (Score:5, Insightful)
In Canada that's 15%. So instead of paying $11.25 in tax you are paying $15. So your sale prices of $75 is actually $78.75. I know it's only three dollars, but dammit I'm cheap!^H^H^H^H^H^it's the principle of the thing!
Not only that, in order to get the mail in rebate it costs you postage. There's another 50 cents. And my time. (That's gotta be worth at least $20 per hour flippen burgers, so it takes me 5 minutes to fill in the stuff. 5 minutes to find a stamp. 15 minutes to walk down to the mailbox, 15 minutes to walk back.)
Hey this rebate is COSTING ME MONEY!
Hey Best Buy/Future Shop! Why not just put it on sale if you want to put it on sale. Why give your consumers more problems. One of the reasons I perfer to buy from the small independants. (No I'm not a devil customer. I'm not a customer at all!)
We are the "Tipping Point" and Karmic Retribution (Score:4, Interesting)
First: anyone who's read Malcolm Gladwell's _Tipping Point_ is familiar with what he refers to as human networking hubs. These people process and relay information to their friends and family and are often responsible for purchasing decisions not only for themselves but upwards 10-20 families.
I would venture to say that most of the people BB is actively trying to alienate are those type of people. Yes, those people will go to great lengths to manipulate rebates and pricematches and loss leaders to walk away from the store having spent as little money as possible. But these human deal hubs don't just pass on information about what BB would consider rip-off deals, they also pass on information about other products in the store.
I think what BB is really experiencing is what Wired covered in their last issue: brands mean piss in the information age. How much are these human hubs, these financial "tipping points" financially responsible for is hard to gauge, but I imagine BB will soon find out.
Secondly, what BB is experiencing is merely karmic retribution. What are rebates but a similar way to manipulate customers into paying more? It is boldly advertising one price and requiring a substantial amount of work to obtain. That rebates have pretty much maintained legality is beyond me. BB could stop offering rebates. They could stop pricematching. They could simply offer a product at a fair price and that be the end of it. But they don't, because these systems inherently take advantage of the consumer. Wal-mart, for all their sprawling corporate evil, are rarely on the deals sites because the price they advertise is the price you pay. So what's up BB's ass?
Well, the internet has empowered individuals to turn the tables on corporations like BB and take advantage of these manipulative systems on wide enough scale that it obviously causes BB execs to lose sleep and break par on the golf course.
I am a FWer, and I have walked out of BB with some pretty good deals. But I've used BB to buy dvds on opening day, I've bought several hundreds of dollars worth of electronics without finnegaling, and I've refrerred people to BB many times over. In fact, I planned to go buy Halo 2 from them tomorrow. Now, I'll be going somewhere else. I'll be visiting BB again, but when I do it will cost BB, and it will be paid for with untrackable cash.
Way to go, Brad. Enjoy your golf.
That's not what IBM taught me ... (Score:5, Informative)
I have a friend... (Score:5, Funny)
Best Buy & Extended Warranties (Score:4, Interesting)
I must be one of those 20% of devils. Best Buy pissed me off so bad when I was buying my mom a $500 e-Machine computer that I go out of my way NOT to shop there. It took me 45 minutes to get out of there. All I wanted to do was take a computer off the shelf and check out, but it was much more complicated than that. The saleslady kept pushing the extended warranty, software packages, and various services. They wanted to open up the computer in their service department to check out it because "e-Machines have a high rate of returns." Well if they're so bad why are you selling them? She had no answer for that.
Then more pleas for the extended warranty, software, and other crap. When I refused the extended warranty the second time I actually had to talk to her supervisor to let him hear for himself that I really didn't want it. The saleslady stressed that they aren't on commission, but I found later their managers ARE.
Finally (with escort of the sales lady) I was allowed to check out. If it wasn't for the price and the fact my mom needed the computer, I would have walked off. The good news is the cheapo e-Machine is still happily running years later.
sorry, should have previewed... (Score:5, Informative)
i worked for best buy for just about a year and quit around the time they were doing this training. instead of just one generalized customer, they've created 5 categories that would best fit their target groups. not all stores have all these categories. some stores may be a Jill or Barry, while others may be more of a Buzz. let me explain.
Barry - usual income is over $100,000 - wants a "my guy" type of environment (similar to having a specific mechanic you go to, they want to be the epicenter where "Barry"s go for high end products, installation, information, etc). - time = money, so having a specialized, well trained place (a Barry specific store) to go to grab everything from install to products will be worth the money. they could care less about spending time to bargain shop. - will pay extra to have product delivered, installed, set-up in house
Jill - "soccer mom" - will want a "shopping friend" that will help her pick out all the products with her (a specific Best Buy employee will literally guide her through the store and shop with her) - a prime target for in-home installations
Buzz - early adoptor - wants the latest and greatest and usually doesn't stop to think about the price - 18-30 age group, college students, disposable income
Ray - wife, and 2 1/2 kids - must consult with wife before buying - tendency to look for bargains
Best Buy for Business - small business owner - will have a specific employee assigned to him/her as a conduit for business transactions - target for Best Buy's Geek Squad (tech department; aside from regular computer problems general customers have, Geek Squad for business users will be more of an "on-call" IT department. small businesses don't need a full-time techie on their pay-roll. so Geek Squad can come in for a "small" fee per hour, or last i heard, Businesses can pre-pay for an alotted amount of time per month)
working for Best Buy gives one a different perspective. as the management says, they must continue growing to avoid Circuit City scenarios, or Walmart/K-Mart power shifts. the main competition they see is Walmart, Dell, Amazon, Ebay, and a fifth that slips my mind. so in order to grow, they're trying ot learn more about their customers. they're catering to specific customer needs of the area. so your local store can be labeled one of the 5 possible categories or a mix of them. employees are trained to identify who best fits what mold so they can pass them off to someone who can better help with your needs. the cynic in me also thinks the best employee to grab every possible penny from the customer, but that's just, argueably, business.
just to give everyone the heads up though about a simple fact. from last i heard from management, if you look at the top ten list of what makes Best Buy profit, #1 is home theatre (big screen TVs, etc). want to know #2-10 ? it's their PRP/PSP (product replacement plan and product service plans). that's the main reason they push customers so hard about them.
also, people sometimes wonder how they measure performance. employees aren't measured by individual performence (and that means non-commision). the deparments must reach given daily monetary amounts and percentages for specific things and that's how management keeps track. they make sure each employee says they are no on comission. what they don't say though is, the sales managers that are hounding each employee about the performance of numbers is given a "bonus" for the sales/rank/etc every month. so in essence, *they* are getting the comission.
that's enough rambling from an ex-employee. hope it gives people a clearer picture. and for those wondering, i was in the computer sales / tech departments.
Re:Words to Best Buy: Suck it up (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Words to Best Buy: Suck it up (Score:5, Interesting)
People are abusing those benefits Best Buy provides. Now, I think the Mail in Rebates are bogus. I really wish it was required that they put the price I have to pay when I get to the counter on the price tag (I know CompUSA is notorious for this, not sure about Best Buy).
Now, forcing people to honor their advertising about price matching. That I've got no problems with the customer doing. If Best Buy doesn't want to have to lower the price, they shouldn't have advertised it as part of their pricing. I don't know if Best Buy does this, but I know that I've heard some places have branded models that are only sold by a particular chain. They sell identical systems to 3-4 chains, but each chain has it's own model number. Thus they can claim that a competitor with a lower pice isn't exactly the same model, so the guarantee doesn't apply. That's crappy, but I'm not sure if that has any bearing on this article.
I know I don't like them discussion that people "buying up all the loss leaders" are a problem. Especially when they are discussing that people are re-selling the items on e-bay. That is capitalism at it's finest. The market is being highly efficient there, they just need to realize that communication and on-line auctioning have forced retailers to be more price competitive. The world has moved on, and this is a point at which Best Buy is just being left behind (the fact that people will buy it for cost plus shipping, means either people are stupid, or Best Buy is taking a serious beating on the pricing). If Best Buy corporate had any brains, they'd setup small retailers to just sell them directly over eBay and move lots of items that way to see if they can benefit from the insanity of the purchasers.
Retail is generally a very inefficient way to sell things. There's only a single price for everyone. They'd be much better off with auction style pricing (the optimal price is found in a good market). People pay what they believe something is worth, and the store gets the maximal amount of money the market will bear. As long as there are plenty of buyers for any given item, they'd probably get a better price then they do with the shelf price. Plus it wouldn't have to be trucked around the country, and they wouldn't need as much retail space.
I don't like what they are talking about in terms of profiling. Part of my problem, is well, I don't dress my income. I had the same problem when purchasing a vehicle. Fortuantely when I went to get a house, I did the loan info over the phone. Sometimes it is nice to just be a number.
Now, Best Buy's claim that 20% of their customers are doing this sort of thing is just silly. I'm highly doubtful that it is that rampant (it might be 20% of their transactions, but not 20% of their customers).
Kirby
Re:Words to Best Buy: Suck it up (Score:5, Insightful)
Using every loophole available isn't abuse. Its business. Do you think Best Buy's accountants look at some obscure tax regulation and say "well, this would save us alot of money, but it really wasn't meant to be used this way"? I don't think people owe corparations any more moral consideration than corporations typically excersize towards people.
Re:Words to Best Buy: Suck it up (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is it acceptable for a business to play the government's rules, but it is not acceptable for the consumers to play the business' rules?
Self-interest is what drives capitalism. Best Buy can suck it.
We got ourselves a communist here (Score:5, Funny)
It has always been one rule for the consumers and another for business.
Re:Words to Best Buy: Suck it up (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Are they going to chase you out of the store? (Score:5, Funny)
Buy on dude, buy on!
Re:Why not just drop rebates (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:In other words... (Score:4, Funny)
As I carry the little guy to the register:
Salesman: "Is that all for you today?"
Me: "Yup."
Salesman: "Have you heard about our extended warranty which will cover product failure?"
Me: "Nope."
Salesman: "Well, when the product breaks, this warranty-"
Me: "Oh nevermind, I don't want this TV if it's going to break on me suddenly. I thought I could buy a quality product here."
Salesman: "Oh no, it's quality product. See, if the remote breaks, that's $79 right there! We'd replace it if you lose it. The warranty is only $50 so it pays for itself."
Me: "Can I get the TV without the remote just for $60?"
Salesman: "Uhh, no."
Me: "But I can get a generic remote for $9 from one of your competitors, and that's still cheaper..."
Salesman: "Ok sir that will be $139."
At some point during one of my many moves the TV stopped working*. Technically, it would continually go up in channels regardless of what you instructed it to do. Having no extended warranty at this point, I wasn't bummed. (American Appliance had since gone out of business and was being liquidated. Some company was selling their computer inventory at a 10% discount from 1993 prices. We're talking $199 *Quad-Speed* CD-ROM drives on "sale"). I took a $3.99 toe nail clipper and wedged it into the TV through one of the front buttons. Being impervious to death by electrocution, I suffered no harm and automagically repaired my TV. The next time I moved, when I took the toe nail clipper out, it no longer switched channels by itself anymore. I was disappointed, as I had been looking forward to my monthly toe clipping time, by which I could channel surf without needing to do anything.
Check your controls/variables (Score:4, Insightful)