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RIAA Protests Digital Radio 255

prostoalex writes "Afraid that digital radio listeners might soon be able to cherry-pick certain songs and share them with others on the Internet, RIAA urged FCC to consider broadcast regulations that limit such copying. The National Association of Broadcasters is not too happy with RIAA's request, as more than three hundred broadcasters either have digital CD-quality radio, or are in the process of setting them up. Meanwhile, as MSNBC notes, products like The Bug from Pure Digital are already capable of recording digital radio."
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RIAA Protests Digital Radio

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  • by dotslashconfig ( 784719 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:32AM (#9407080)
    The RIAA will try to outlaw singing. After all, they can't sell as many records if people can just reproduce the music with their voice!!! Bahahaha... ::tear::
    • //sigh (Score:5, Funny)

      by Ieshan ( 409693 ) <ieshan@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:40AM (#9407140) Homepage Journal
      I mean, pretty soon, the RIAA will have so many high tech snooping devices that we won't be able to even sing "DO RE MI F-- NO CARRIER
    • Re:And next up... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by thepoch ( 698396 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:44AM (#9407159)
      My post won't really be very helpful...

      But I remembered reading once about the RIAA or some recording studio not liking the idea of cellphone ringtones of popular music. This resulted in cellphone companies having to pay royalties for every ringtone that they sell. Imagine... ringtones (the old ones anyway) are just beeps in different notes! It seems that, technically, you're also not allowed to whistle anymore.

      Just some lame and useless info for everyone.
      • Well i should have no problem with that, seeing as how i whistle so out of key, that its not even funny
      • by JudgeFurious ( 455868 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @08:46PM (#9410013)
        I truly wanted to write something insightful about this story. I wanted to make a logical balanced statement about why the RIAA is simply wrong and will eventually die due to their own greed. I wanted to write something that would illuminate and entertain and was suitable for all age groups to read.

        Unfortunately I couldn't do that. Every time I now think about the RIAA and whatever approach they are currently trying to keep their grip on the fat cash they make screwing over the artist, customer, and anyone else who gets in the way I can only ever think of two words.

        "Fuck Them"

        So that's my post. Don't be too hard on me mods because I tried. Maybe I've seen one too many RIAA stories or something but those four letters just draw one response from me at this point and that was it.
    • Re:And next up... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kfg ( 145172 )
      They don't have to. Singing in public is already legal infringement (as is playing a radio), but that falls under the auspices of ASCAP and BMI.

      The lawyers have divided up the turf between themselves and singing isn't on the RIAAs turf.

      KFG
      • Sing songs written before 1923. They are in the public domain. If Congress had stuck to the original copyright law, anything more than 28 years old would be in the public domain.
        • Re:And next up... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by kfg ( 145172 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @02:29PM (#9408046)
          Sing songs written before 1923.

          Pretty much half my stock in trade. Die Gadanken Sind Frei goes back perhaps a thousand years and is still, unfortunately, topical today.

          Stephen Foster, Scot Joplin, Civil War songs. Lots of good public domain stuff out there.

          Unfortunately Mississippi John Hurt didn't record until 1929 and that's when the copyright starts counting from, Robert Johnson later than that. The blues, a pure folk medium, is propriatary. Even given life of the author plus 50 years it will be some time before it becomes public domain, and many publishers are claiming that the clock starts at the time they copyrighted it, not at the time it was first protected by copyright, and if they can assert that legally the there's a 95 year clock on Hurt starting in 1963.

          This isn't the first time Congress has fucked up royally.

          KFG
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Wake up RIAA, your customer base isn't happy with you. Stop doing idiotic crap to piss it off.
    • by rpozz ( 249652 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:39AM (#9407133)
      Unfortunately, the main RIAA customer base is dumb kids who buy manufactured crap like Westlife etc. They will continue to buy that shit and continue to fund these retards.
    • by sarah_kerrigan ( 764949 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:40AM (#9407137)
      Hello,

      They don't want it to end, that is the plain answer. The RIAA lives of the customers who buy "legal" music (they never remember the Creative Commons license, isn't that curious?). They are not interested in the earnings of the artists, of course; they only stand for their own earnings. Take into account that a musician earns more money playing in concerts, than selling discs.

      To sum up: money rules.

      Muaaaaaaaaks
      --
      • Artists do not make money playing concerts; promoters make money, bands break even.

        Bands make their money selling CDs* and Official Merchandise. Think of the concerts as a comercial for the CD.

        *They make money on volume sales. For a Major Label, the breakeven point for a band could be as high as 1.2 million; ie, they make dollar number on the 1.2 millionth +1 CD. Minor labels, the point could be as low as 100,000 CDs.
        • Hello,

          Sorry, I strongly disagree with you. They make money selling CDs only if they sell a huge amount of them; that is, if they are a well-known band. But for those who are not as famous as them, it is better to have 100.000 "illegal" fans than 1.000 "legal" ones, because this way they will manage to get to more people, so more people will buy a ticket for their concerts. At least that's the way I see it.

          Anyway, thank you for answering. I'll think of what you have just said.

          Muaaaaaaaks
          --
        • by Johnathon_Dough ( 719310 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @09:25PM (#9410321)
          Artists do not make money playing concerts; promoters make money, bands break even.

          ummm, no, unless you are a major promotion company Bill Graham Presents, Clear Channel, etc. As a promoter you are luck to make a living wage.

          As an example:

          My girlfriend used to promote bands here in SF, one show she did sold approximately 1200 tickets, at $25 a ticket, she had $30,000 coming in. sounds good.

          oops

          band cost: 12,000
          rider costs: 2,500 venue rental: 4,000
          promotion: 2,000
          equipment rental for night of show: 5,000
          staff costs: 1,500
          for a rough total of: 27,000

          she worked her ass of for one month, and worked somewhat hard for another month. So let's call it $3,000 for working her ass off for one and a half months. $12.50 an hour. whoopee.

          The band, showed up, had a hotel room waiting, had all but their specialty lighting waiting, had half their instruments waiting. did a 45 minute sound check, played for an hour and 15 minutes, and made 12,000, minus 10% for management, and let's say another 20% for incidentals, they made 8,400 for one nights work. 3 people in the band, 2800 each, they played a city a night for something like 3 months, with a conservative 2 days off a week, each band member made about $150,000 in three months.

          this is a relatively niche oriented band, with a consistent following, but they are making decent money at it.

          promoters don't really start to make money until they own venues, and can negotiate multiple shows, etc.

          I could go on and on, but as in anything music business related, the bigger you are the more you make. not much to do with talent, most the folks I know that are in the live music business are in it because they really like a certain style of music, or possibly they just love music, but you sure aren't in it for the money.

      • by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Saturday June 12, 2004 @02:49PM (#9408158)
        The RIAA lives of the customers who buy "legal" music (they never remember the Creative Commons license, isn't that curious?).

        Excellent comment. In fact, the part about the "legal" music is almost taken verbatim from their about us [riaa.com] page.

        They are not interested in the earnings of the artists, of course; they only stand for their own earnings. Take into account that a musician earns more money playing in concerts, than selling discs.

        This is what I've been thinking about lately. Who else is remotely similar to the RIAA or the MPAA? Technically, they are classified as an industry trade group [wikipedia.org]. And that industry trade groups are put together by a group of corporations that are in a common industry for the purpose of government legislation and public relations. Other industry trade groups are the American Plastics Council [americanpl...ouncil.org] and the National Cattlemen's Beef Association [beef.org].

        These other two organizations I know of though their TV comercials where they have slogans like "Beef, Its whats for dinner", or the plastics ads where they show how our lives have been improved with the advent of plasic materials.

        Now, lets think of my interaction with the RIAA and the MPAA. Its been on the news, and how they are pissed off that people are downloading files, then suing these people, etc.

        The RIAA and MPAA do not have a product. They are not a corporation. They cannot ever loose money. They are given money from membership fees from thier members [riaa.com]. These fees are solely based on the market share and size of the corporation. They are like a voluntary tax!

        Does this remind you of another organization that is purely based upon lawsuits and pres releases? You can find them by searching google for litigious bastards [google.com].

        Dont worry about these guys. They will not be around too much more. SCO is almost out of amunition to prove thier existance, and being that the RIAA and MPAA have no more amunition than SCO, they too will just disipear.
  • Blunder (Score:3, Interesting)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland@yaFREEBSDhoo.com minus bsd> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:33AM (#9407089) Homepage Journal
    This is a Blunder by the RIAA. Now every broadcaster has more too worry about with Digital TV. Clearly, the broadcaster will have to kowtow to the **AA groups, and broadcaster do not like that one bit.
    • Re:Blunder (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tsg ( 262138 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @01:09PM (#9407619)
      The radio stations should stop playing RIAA songs altogether and see how many they sell then.
      • That just simply wouldn't work as it would be effective suicide for the radio stations. What, precisely, would be left to play? fifty year old yodelling tapes? The consumers expect that stuff.

        Listening == advertising == money for the radio station.

        Eventually someone would come along who *was* willing to play RIAA stuff, and he'd be rich, because he'd be able to sell advertising again, because people would be listening -- unlike the guys with the yodelling tapes.

        Unfortunately the great masses of people
  • by GreyWolf3000 ( 468618 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:34AM (#9407090) Journal
    is if the RIAA created a new digital radio that had a CDR in it, and the user could select "download & rip" for 1$ like in iTunes and the radio would compress the song into FLAC, ogg, or mp3, and burn it to the next track.

    Or can digital radios already do this?

    • by Dun Malg ( 230075 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:38AM (#9407121) Homepage
      is if the RIAA created a new digital radio that had a CDR in it, and the user could select "download & rip" for 1$ like in iTunes and the radio would compress the song into FLAC, ogg, or mp3, and burn it to the next track.

      No, you see, that would be innovation. The RIAA isn't a company that comes out with products, it's an association of old-school record companies trying to protect their old-school business model.

    • by Ninwa ( 583633 )
      would it take for it to be hacked and used as a free music CD generator? :)
    • That would be stupid. It'd have no advantage over something like iTunes, and you'd have to wait for the song to come on (which could be a long time if you're not looking for one of the five most popular singles).
      • It would have no advantage over iTunes for music you've heard before and know you want, but if you like listening to stations that play music you haven't heard before, it'd be a really cool to buy the song after you've heard it.
        • by damiam ( 409504 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @01:22PM (#9407680)
          Yeah, it'd be cool to buy a song after you heard it, but I don't think a radio with built-in CDR would be the best way to do that. You could just as easily go and buy the song online right after you heard it, and save yourself a couple hundred dollars in radio hardware. Besides, the radio would have to record everything, and only let you listen to the recording if you decided after the fact that you want to "buy" the content that's already on your radio.

          That'd require some mega-DRM - the digital broadcast would have to be encrypted to prevent unauthorized radios from "pirating" songs. I don't really think we want the RIAA getting into the radio business, they've fucked up the CD business enough as it is.

    • by Enraged_jawa ( 641736 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:11PM (#9407286)
      You don't need a digital radio, programs like StationRipper (http://www.ratajik.com/StationRipper) have been around for quite a while that let you save songs from streaming radio (like Shoutcast) as mp3's, including the correct tags.
    • by AKnightCowboy ( 608632 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:28PM (#9407390)
      is if the RIAA created a new digital radio that had a CDR in it, and the user could select "download & rip" for 1$ like in iTunes and the radio would compress the song into FLAC, ogg, or mp3, and burn it to the next track.

      No, the RIAA's digital radio would automatically charge your credit card $18 per song which you would be able to replay as many times as you wanted* on that particular digital radio for a period of 24 hours.

      * Note, does not include permission to play it to audiences greater than a single person. Everyone person must have their own $18/24hr license.

  • Massinova (Score:5, Informative)

    by PrintError ( 708568 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:34AM (#9407097) Journal
    Does anyone still remember Massinova? They offered near CD quality streams, a great request system, etc etc...

    And to thank them for their efforts, the RIAA sued and screwed em, and now that great Trance stream is no more.

    Long live Massinova.
  • Shocking!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by carrett ( 671802 ) <gmclean@@@gmail...com> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:35AM (#9407106) Homepage Journal
    The RIAA is now seeking to eliminate ALL music in an attempt to make sure people don't steal it. Buy CDs while you can, they'll soon be outlawed! LPs and audio cassetes will also soon be collected and destroyed. The RIAA will begin raiding people's homes and taking away all audio equipment to be incinerated in giant ovens, never to be heard of again. During the burn-fest, Metallica will be paying a huge concert at $500 a head... blah blah blah, maybe I dragged this joke out for too long, but you'll have to excuse me...I just work up and this isn't the way I wanted to start my day.
    • Fortunately they can't do the job completely without running afoul of some fairly serious laws... like murder.

      I'm a member of a classical choir that specializes in a capella music... and we've got a couple of composers among our ranks, too.
    • yeah and in other news RIAA members are paying radio companies to play certain songs.. .. so like, what the hell, do they want people to listen to the songs or not????
  • by reub2000 ( 705806 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:36AM (#9407110)
    Ever hear of taping a song off the radio. A lot of people do it.

    Git off ma fair use before aye shoot ya.
    • This is slightly different though. Taping off the radio gives pretty poor sound quality. Ripping a high quality digital stream (with metadata so you can tag it on-the-fly) would yield a copy nearly as good as buying the original.
    • by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:46AM (#9407173) Homepage Journal
      I agreem.

      My understanding is that recording from radio is perfectly legal, and I wish it to remain legal and not encumbered by copy prohibitions.

      Where people go wrong is that it is just as illegal as it ever was to redistribute the content without permission, the only thing changing is that it is easier. Being easy to do doesn't make an argument for legalization - there were almost always things that are easy to do yet were still illegal.
      • by ahfoo ( 223186 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @01:34PM (#9407767) Journal
        Well this is the whole bizarre point.
        The RIAA has spent all this effort and garnered all this bad publicity over P2P, but there's this alternative to P2P that leads to precisely the same result and it is clearly legal.
        And it's not just P2P. The whole notion of the PVR is almost identical to time shifting digital radio. The end result of using time shifting technology on digital radio and HDTV is identical to using P2P. The user ends up with a hard drive full of MP3s and MPEGs. But this is hardly an argument in their favor, this is daming evidence against their earlier quixotic foibles.
        The conclusion that digital radio and PVR technology brings to center stage is what everyone has said all along --they were wrong. P2P was legit all along and this is the best evidence. The identical result of P2P still arises even without P2P. The simple fact is that this has never been a moral issue, it has been a technical issue that they have tried to simply run from because they procrastincated too long on innovating.
        The digital radio issue isn't the **AA's next victim, it's the last straw.
      • by Omnifarious ( 11933 ) * <eric-slashNO@SPAMomnifarious.org> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @01:37PM (#9407794) Homepage Journal

        It is an argument for legalization. Copyright was concieved of as a balance. Since copying is now so easy, the cost to society of restricting it is much higher.

        One way to look at constitutional protections is to see them as a set of restrictions that are designed to prevent the government from being able to pass, or enforce laws that are obnoxious burdens on freedom.

        It's very telling that drug laws require serious weakening of the 4th ammendment to enforce. It's now to the point where enforcement of copyright law will require even more obnoxious violations of the 4th ammendment, by some interpretations, the 3rd ammendment, and by some interpretations, the 5th ammendment.

        • And you didn't even mention the First Amendment. Copyright, by locking up ideas as property; saying that once they are expressed, they can't be re-expressed without formal permission and the payment of fees; is a form of censorship. That isn't freedom of speech or freedom of the press, is it?
      • by cballowe ( 318307 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @02:29PM (#9408047) Homepage
        Where people go wrong is that it is just as illegal as it ever was to redistribute the content without permission, the only thing changing is that it is easier.

        Not entirely true... Up until (I believe) 1976, copyright law regulated the right to "publish," not "copy" -- there is a subtle but huge difference between the two.

    • but I have always wondered how come there were never tape recorders in cars. That seems like the time I would most often come across a song I liked and not be able to tape it.
      • Actually there were a few tape recorders in cars. One was a double-cassette recorder made by a Tiawanese company and put out by JC Whitney and CO. I know - I had one. It even had a microphone input on the front.

        The problem with tape recorders in cars - at least when I had mine - was vibration. I couldn't record anything really without a lot of engine/road noise as well as wow and flutter in the tape when played back.

  • Meh (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thewldisntenuff ( 778302 ) * on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:37AM (#9407113) Homepage
    Let the RIAA complain all they want-it will not get them anywhere anyway....Personally, I don't think the NAB would let this fly

    There are other ways to get around this (casettes, radio to line-in, etc - and watch out, they'll want to ban obsolete hardware next) and the RIAA can really do little to stop it...Another RIAA attempt to stifle pirates, terrorists, and baby-killers, and innovation as well, all in the name of saving their bottom line
  • this posting might be of interest/relevance [slashdot.org] to this discussion.

    Posted without a karma bonus so I'm not accused of karma.... well you know. I would have posted anonymously but I've alrealy posted anon 10 jokes today :-)
  • Well, this was only a matter of time. Most people I know listen to Internet Radio more then their own libraries anymore especially on iTunes. Does this mean that Sirius is going to get regulated too because of broadcasting music at such a high quality? What about the people in the 80s/90s who listened to regular radio and recorded songs to tape?

    Second, I was always a subtle Howard Stern fan, but now with what is going on with clear channel, his broadcasts are more entertaining then just the stupid fart jokes. He really is going through a struggle, and the FCC/RIAA are seeing great times to strike out with the election.

    Let's stop going back in the time machine...

    Thanks,
    Aj

    GroupShares.com [groupshares.com] - Free Stock Logs/Commentary
    • Howard Stern Gone.. Internet Radio Gone...

      Well, this was only a matter of time. Most people I know listen to Internet Radio more then their own libraries anymore especially on iTunes.

      Please correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think this current battle is about internet radio (yet), but more satellite radio and radio stations that send out digital versions of their normal broadcasts.

    • Regarding Stern; first, I don't really see what this has to do with the RIAA (granted, censorship is censorship, but the motivation for censoring Stern is quite different from that of the RIAA). Stern's case, if anything, is quite a bit worse; where the RIAA is hampering people through an abuse of the civil court system, the FCC is actually using government-granted power to clamp down on him.

      Also, you mention that he's gone, but he's still got an audience of millions. Clear Channel was not the only network
    • by SmurfButcher Bob ( 313810 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:19PM (#9407343) Journal
      Slightly OT, but...

      Actually, ClearChannel *wants* Stern off the radio. CC only had him in 6 markets... and competed against him in the others. Actually, they competed against him in those markets also - they have sister stations (with competing morning shows) in all of them.

      Obviously in those markets, their morning drive takes a bath going up against him. Where I live, Stern fluctuates between a 38 to a 45 share, and peaked in one book at a 53 share... imagine driving to work, and *every-other car on the road* is listening to him (every-other as in "even-odd"). Half. Freakin HALF. This leaves the other 12 stations in my area competing for scraps - 12 stations competing for 48%. Right off the bat, their numbers are starting at half. Stern cornered a 53% share. 2nd place came in with a 7.3 share (prior to Stern, they averaged 15-17). 3rd came in with a 6.2. 4th... rofl... 3.1. The rest were all 1s and 2s, and most dropped their morning shows and simply play music. Doomed.

      Six stations is all CC had him on, and he kind of slaughters their morning drives in all markets where he competes against them. Business decision - if he's in your market, none of your stations will make any money in Morning Drive, the most important day-part in Radio. Even if you have him on one of your stations - your others in that market are still screwed. What do you do?

      It kind of explains why CC won't buy out his contract - depending on how it works, one possibility is that upon termination, the exclusivity goes away - any other station in those six markets would be free to pick him up. They'd be right back at square one, where none of their morning day-parts would make money. They'd need to delay the "ending" of that contract for as long as possible. It also explains why their lobby "donations" have gone up a bit as of late.

      So, Stern isn't gone - what we're seeing is yet another almost-monopoly trying to maintain itself. If there's big money behind getting Stern thrown off the air, it's from ClearChannel...
    • OT but Howard Stern gets dropped from Clear Channel because he is critical of Bush's War on Iraq. Clear Channel happens to like Bush. So they drop Stern from all stations that carry him, which was six.

      This is not a first amendment issue. The bill of rights protects you from the government, not your asshat employeer. And office politics is a major issue that you have to juggle in a career.

      In short, this isn't government censorship. Clear Channel didn't like what Stern was saying so he gets dropped.

  • by overbyj ( 696078 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:39AM (#9407132)
    Breaking news: the RIAA has appealled to the FCC to help regulate individuals from singing out loud.

    An RIAA spokesman, I. M. Prick, has indicated "That people pose a very serious threat to our industry because they are able to reproduce music by vocalization. It appears that if other people hear individuals hear others singing songs illegaly, then they might remember the lyrics, tune and beat and thereby infringe on our copyrights."

    • Re:What's next? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Entropius ( 188861 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:50AM (#9407190)
      There's a story that gets retold in music history classes a lot.

      Around 1800 there was an old and incredibly beautiful choral piece that a particular monastery/order/whatever wanted to, in effect, keep a monopoly on. They'd perform the thing as part of the Mass, but wouldn't share the score with any who weren't in the order and performing themselves. This had been the situation for around two hundred years.

      Well, around 1800 a smart-aleck goes to one of the Masses, hears the piece, comes home, and writes down all the notes from memory. (Anyone familiar with Renaissance motets knows what a feat this is.)

      That smart-aleck? Mozart.

      (Dr. Sanders, forgive me if I got a few details wrong.)
      • Didn't he die too early?

        I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't to blame for his death. Pro-copyright zealots have always been willing to go to any extreme....
      • Re:What's next? (Score:5, Informative)

        by ZeissIcon ( 67281 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:46PM (#9407482)
        The piece was Allegri's Miserere and it was deemed too beautiful to be performed anywhere outside of the Sistine Chapel. There are numerous stories surrounding incident which is quite possibly one of the earliest urban legends. Anyway, the whole story is recounted here [classical.net]. Mozart may have reproduced the piece from memory after a 1769 visit (when he was 12). Mozart died in 1791, so it was "loosely" "around 1800" as the parent suggests.
  • Unfortunately people keep buying US music. (I'm fortunate that most of my tastes are non RIAA controlled imports.) We can hope they end up like SCO and only getting revenue from lawsuits but overall this still just speaks that the masses are uneducated. Also, with the RIAA getting their brainwashing on copyright into public education systems they are around for the long haul.
  • by MurrayTodd ( 92102 ) * on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:40AM (#9407136) Homepage
    Oh come on! There's an (overused) trick to prevent people from creating their music libraries from taping off the radio today: it's when the radio DJ "talks" into the first 10 seconds or so of the song, or fades one song into the other.

    That makes every piece annoying enough that I doubt many people are going to want to record anything other than maybe entire programs.
    • This is done all the time on conventional FM radio, but does satellite/digital radio do this also? I'd think that audience would be more inclined toward the "stfu and let me hear the song as it was meant to be heard!" mindset.
    • Dead air (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Night Goat ( 18437 )
      They don't do it to prevent you from making copies of the music, they do it because it's a slicker way to DJ. It sounds better, and more importantly, it prevents dead air. Dead air's a real no-no if you're a radio DJ.
      • That's no excuse when the idiot DJ jabbers through the first full minute of a song, and yes I have heard them do that, especially if the song in question has a long musical intro..
  • CD-quality... NOT. (Score:5, Informative)

    by weav ( 158099 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:42AM (#9407144)
    Last I heard, "HD Radio" [ibiquity.com] was compressed using MPEG-4 AAC. I forget the bitrate, but it's likely around 128 Kbps. This is real good, but not CD-quality. Eric Weaver Chief Engineer, KFJC [kfjc.org], 1993-1997
    • They know that. A transmitter manufacturer at the last Vega NAB also related to me how very few American broadcasters have adopted digital because of the technical demands. This isn't about 'protecting the artist', digital's penetration and permanently limited bitrate will forever prevent 'perfect' copies being made for distribution. This is about the filling legal holes and setting the legal precedent to skim fees for all audio distribution, a strong form of anti-free market protectionism.
  • "Roughly 300 stations now broadcast digital signals or are in the process of setting them up, according to the FCC"

    Why are the RIAA kicking up about this now? Wouldn't it have caused alot less hassle if they had mentioned their concerns to the FCC before the broadcasters spent wads of cash implementing digital radio schemes?

    Seems to me like they are just trying to make enemies of everyone. But then again, this comes from the industry that has spent the last couple decades screwing over its customers, i

  • Tired of them (Score:5, Interesting)

    by div_2n ( 525075 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:44AM (#9407162)
    I for one am completely and totally tired of their antics. We geeks have power and can be a serious force. I am issuing a challenge at this moment. We need to develop an alternative path for customers and artists to take to bypass them.

    I am confident that if we can all band together, we can overcome. I am talking about a distribution system that is based on open standards that allows payment to go directly to artist with minimal (if any) overhead.

    Here is what I propose:

    -A non-profit organization comprised of volunteers
    -Create a website to serve as a repository of songs to be distributed via bittorrent
    -Payment taken in the form of Paypal donations
    -Payment is artist AND song specific based completely on an honor system
    -To encourage reasonable sized payments, offer bonuses for tiered donations
    -For example, after $100 is donated to band X, the customer becomes eligble for free concert tickets or something
    -Payment is dispursed to artists in entirety
    -Artists are encouraged to donate back a portion of their payments to cover costs of bandwidth, etc.
    -No DRM to be used and only open formats for music.
    -Songs should be available in varying qualities.

    Maybe this exact model has already been proposed, I don't know. Comments and suggestions welcome. I have issued the challenge, will anyone answer?
    • Won't work (Score:3, Insightful)

      by gclef ( 96311 )
      Your system relies on two groups (consumers and artists) behaving well and selflessly. There's no evidence that either one will actually do so.
      • Those that won't will take the selfish route regardless of laws, DRM and any other measures you throw at them. At least this way, all of the useless overhead that goes into trying to stop that behavior is cut out of the model.

        I think you would be surprised at how well the majority can and will behave if faced with the opportunity to do so with minimal effort.
  • I was actually just discussing this with a few friends yesterday. I wasked them whether they thought streamripping music off of shoutcast stations using winamp [winamp.com] and the streamripper plugin was illegal. We came to the conclusion that no, it wasn't because it's obviously the same thing as recording the radio with a cassette recorder. I also brought up the question of since it's obviously not illegal to share music with your friends in a car or something, what's so different about broadcasting it over the inter
  • by Ikn ( 712788 ) * <rsmith29@@@alumni...nd...edu> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:49AM (#9407185) Homepage
    But if I lose my Digitally Imported, I will commit arson. And homicide. And pillaging. And public urination. Not necessarily in that order.
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:50AM (#9407192)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:51AM (#9407195) Journal
    It would be a great idea, similar to the DeCSS Gallery, to document every possible way you can copy/save/record any auido/video stream including schematics and code for DIY hardware boxes (like phreaking boxes) and software in many forms (t-shirts, songs, art, or just plain code etc..). Cover every hardware platform, every media format and every method, from micro-phone-to-speaker to full digital stream copies. Make sure the site shows how much of a joke this is but at the same time gives a useful resource and of course, make many many mirrors of it. If its already been done then great, whats the url? but if it hasnt it would be a great project (funded by t-shirt sales). All these great copying methods from pressing shift to blacking out the edges of CDs to decryption need to be in one place. Device-by-device guides showing you pin-outs and wiring instructions, code for PICs etc and what country sells the tools you need. The site should conform to some basic common sense rules i.e displaying "copyright violation is a criminal offence" etc and the thinking being that what you do with your own property in your own home is your business.
  • by jimmy page ( 565870 ) <ug2bNO@SPAMjuno.com> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @11:59AM (#9407225)
    Sure it's from Russia, but for ~$1.00 a CD for 256 VBR MP3's... Who cares... If I don't like a song, I've thrown away $.07..
  • Tape Recorders. And I'd be more worried about the tape recorders than spicific software that can do the same thing, it's easier to record too, just a push of a button. And since you're willing to waste time with all that software configuration to get that 'specific' song, I'm sure you have enough time to get the song off the tape on to your computer..

    honestly who runs the legal show for the RIAA? wait.. don't answer that..(a thousand monkeys on typewriters is what I'm abut to hear)
  • Talk to your friends (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:04PM (#9407253)
    Do your part to talk with your acquaintances and encourage them not to support the RIAA.

    Whining on Slashdot won't get much accomplished. Convincing people that they won't be able to enjoy music how they like it in the near future will make a difference.

    Just last night I carefully explained to a friend who enjoys listening to Cold exactly why she should take a look at which record labels publish those CDs. It's pretty simple--sure, you may be able to buy the CD now, but the next one might be copy protected. If you buy stuff that is put out by those who aren't part of this major media conglomerate, then you won't be encouraging such business tactics.

    I don't know how much of my message was actually heard and how much was just glossed over, but by the time I finished talking she seemed to be at least a little more aware that there should be more to CD purchasing than just finding what you like.

    For me, it is COMPLETELY about the record label. I use the RIAA Radar [magnetbox.com] like nobody's business, and I try my absolute hardest only to buy CDs that come up clean when checked there. There are several highly-desirable purchases I refuse to make because I would be supporting the RIAA. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make because I understand the implications of giving in.

    Fortunately, my music tastes lean towards electronic ("techno"), which is quite predisposed towards free sharing and downloading. Right now I can give you URLs to four [epitonic.com] artists' [trancedomain.com] music [nyte.us] sites [badseedcreations.com] that allow you to download 128kbps or better mp3s of those artists songs without any DRM. There are plenty of indie labels and pro-P2P/sharing musicians out there in other genres, but it appears to me that my favorite type of music has the largest percentage.
  • CD Quality? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:05PM (#9407255) Homepage
    CD quality? I'd be happy if my radio produced FM quality. The typical American broadcaster takes a nice, clean audio signal and then proceeds to mutilate it beyond recognition with a "modulation optimizer" before feeding it to the transmitter. These devices ensure that the transmitter is run at 100% modulation, or greater, all the time, in every audio band. The result is badly distorted audio without the slightest trace of dynamic range. If they will not broadcast a clean FM signal, why should we expect them to broadcast a clean digital signal?
    • Re:CD Quality? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Theaetetus ( 590071 ) <theaetetus...slashdot@@@gmail...com> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:57PM (#9407556) Homepage Journal
      The typical American broadcaster takes a nice, clean audio signal and then proceeds to mutilate it beyond recognition with a "modulation optimizer" before feeding it to the transmitter. These devices ensure that the transmitter is run at 100% modulation, or greater, all the time, in every audio band. The result is badly distorted audio without the slightest trace of dynamic range.

      Most people call them "Compressors". Anyways, yes, they compress the dynamic range of the audio. However, most pop albums today do that anyways, prior to going through our processing. Garbage in, garbage out.

      If they will not broadcast a clean FM signal, why should we expect them to broadcast a clean digital signal?

      Because modulation doesn't matter so much for a digital signal. The technical requirements are drastically different.

      With an FM (or AM) analog signal, more modulation=more power=less noise=farther range=more listeners. Also, more modulation=louder, which many market studies have shown makes people more likely to listen to a station.
      With a digital signal, the modulation is determined by a matrix as the digital bits are divided across multiple carriers and set by phase and amplitude. To get more modulation, you'd need more 1s (not really, since the bits are not linear that way, but anyways) - and that's not audio, that's DC.

      So, there is no longer the technical requirement pushing for compressed audio sources. Both the NAB and the AES are currently discussing processing for digital audio, and in all likelihood, much will change in the way it's done.

      -T

  • by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:08PM (#9407270) Homepage Journal
    Remember Digital Audio Tape? Wanna go buy one?
    Look at what the DMCA is doing to reverse engineering.
    Look at what's being discussed to close the 'analog hole'.

    Our nation is sacrificing it's technological competitiveness in the name of the entertainment industries. We have already sacrificed a LOT, though it's still reversible.

    One of my Senators is Patrick Leahy, and maybe it's time for me to become a single-issue voter. His response to my last letter on this was not satisfactory, I need to try again - well before November.
  • by Aquillion ( 539148 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:17PM (#9407325)
    The comment about fears of "cherry-picking" songs probably tells more about the industry's real fears than they intended. Their biggest fear, I think, isn't simply about piracy (which can always be fought as a crime) but that listeners will become accustomed to listen to what they want, when they want. The existing structure of the music industry depends on using the radio and favorable product placement to boost certain artists; that's why those artists are willing to sign such unfavorable contracts. If the people in charge of the music industry lose control of popular taste, they're finished no matter what else happens.
  • So on one side we have the RIAA representing their interests in "reducing piracy" by trying to stop people time-slipping radio.

    On the other we have companies like Clearchannel, who benefit from advertising revenues the more listeners they get.

    Clearchannel are sucked up to by record labels who want to get their output out there and promoted.

    So now we have this problem... do the labels want to be represented by the views of the RIAA, when those views will cause one of the greatest ways of promoting music t
  • Has anyone noticed? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by e9th ( 652576 )
    They propose allowing you to record "entire broadcasts", not individual songs, for later playback. What do you bet that the next step will be disallowing fast-forward/commercial skip?
  • The RIAA Sucks.

    You know that, I know that, Cowboyneal knows it, and pretty much everyone who frequents this site knows it. It's plain and simple, they are out to defend an old Cartel-like system, only because it continues to line their pockets with billions of dollars each year.

    Unfortunetly, we are still sitting here reading yet another article of hundreds on how the RIAA sucks, and everyone is saying how outrageous it is, "their just going to destroy all music next!" is a common thread. I'm sure most
  • by ChunkBeefpile ( 89059 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:23PM (#9407363)
    "U.S. regulators at the Federal Communications Commission should ensure that the broadcast format limits such copying so radio stations don't turn the airwaves into a giant file-sharing network, RIAA officials said."

    So the RIAA doesn't want radio to become a giant sharing network?
    You're the ones broadcasting your signal into our airspace. You don't want to share? Turn off the transmitter.
  • by Infonaut ( 96956 ) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:23PM (#9407366) Homepage Journal
    The fact that the RIAA is now pissing off the broadcasters may turn out to be the splinter that finally demands attention. The broadcasters have clout of their own, both economic and political. The RIAA is not just rounding up 12 year olds any more. They're now about to come into direct conflict with another industry group.

    While the NAB doesn't exactly have the best interests of you and me in mind, the RIAA's desire to regulate every single intersection of music and commerce might cause the NAB to recognize that if they espouse the cause of less restrictive copyright, they could gain tremendous political and economic benefit.

    Then again, the NAB might simply form some kind of cooperative scheme with the RIAA. But I don't think that's a foregone conclusion. Look at the good will IBM has generated by fighting SCO. Sure, IBM was forced into it by a suicidal Darl McBride, but others are likely watching how much goodwill IBM is garnering by their actions in the SCO/Linux struggle.

    I know, profits are more powerful than goodwill, but goodwill can lead to profits. Maybe the NAB will grok this and take the fight to the RIAA.

  • No kidding they are protesting this.. if they didn't i think the sky would fall in.

    Eventually they will get a clue, but in the meantime, everyone that likes music will have to suffer.
  • by dacarr ( 562277 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:32PM (#9407411) Homepage Journal
    It's pretty simple. If it is audible to the human ear, it is audible to a Shure SM58 wired to a high-falootin' sound card - or for the low budget, a condensor mic on a portable tape recorder. It's simple physics, and to misquote Scotty, ye canna change the laws o' physics by passin' laws in the legislation.
  • hmmmm (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bairy ( 755347 ) *
    Well the site's slashdotted so I wasn't able to read.

    I'm slightly confused. As far as I can work out, the RIAA wants to make it illegal to record (or spread) digital (/internet) radio.. well, since when has making something illegal stopped people doing it?

    If someone wants a song, whether it be a download from irc or a rip from a radio station, they're generally just gonna get it, unless they're scared off by the gestapo tactics of these organisations.

    The other thing is radio is public, so how can they

  • by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:39PM (#9407442) Journal
    Just remember, replacing every existing digital radio and upgrading every digital station just to install DRM is not a problem, other things that the RIAA might also consider an option in the near future: Rounding up all non-DRM hardware by force (first digital then analog), Breaking down your door and beating you on the ground for using Kazaa, Raping your wife/sister/daughter because you 'raped an artist of their work', Getting the death sentence imposed for copyright violation (by giving the government some 'gifts'), and 'buying' the rights to major historical composers such as Mozart, Beethoven and Vivaldi, sampling their work or reusing melodies to create really crap gangsta rap albums and charging orchestras royalties for playing any of the original music.
  • Reminds me of... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Wolfbone ( 668810 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:44PM (#9407470)
    A few years ago, when I was living in ancient Sumeria, the Hunter-Gatherers Association of Mesopotamia were not too happy about those meddling farmers with their disruptive wheat fields, orchards and dairies. "Whose gonna pay a hunter to hunt down an ox or a gatherer to gather berries from the forest when everyone's just growing their own right ouside their huts and giving away the seeds?", they whined to the Chiefs.

    Fortunately the Chiefs were wise in those days.
  • ...they have virtually perfected TCAC*, the world's only foolproof copy protection scheme?

    .

    .

    .

    .

    * Total Crap As Content.

  • by FullCircle ( 643323 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:50PM (#9407509)
    I've had XM for over a year and listen daily in the car. The reason I got XM was because I absolutely hate the junk that is heard in Clearchanel dominated market I live in.

    Not once have I thought of recording anything from XM. Since most XM radios have line outputs for amplifiers, it would be easy to plug in a laptop and record to wav or even mp3 with no problem. This article put the idea in my head, courtesy of the RIAA. Good job guys.

    I've bought quite a few CD's from "new" artists that I actually had a chance to hear on XM. XM definately helps the labels sell more CD's since Clearchanel doesn't play what the public wants to hear anymore.

    The few decent artists that are played to death on broadcast radio don't seem worth the $15 to buy. Hell, I could hear the same song every time I turn on the radio anyway. But the ones that I hear on XM are new and aren't jammed down my throat. I WANT to buy the CD's. Nobody feels good ripping off the underdog artists, but we all write off the radio artists as the enemy, thus they are exploitable.

    The RIAA seems to want control over which artists are popular more than they want money from listeners. In any other business, the stockholders would have voted out anyone who repeatedly made such bad decisions. It just makes no sense.
  • by CdBee ( 742846 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @12:57PM (#9407551)
    We're geeks, right? We're the sorcerers of the modern-day world. Without us, nothing happens and no-one works.

    The RIAA can try this all they like, but if they succeed in getting the restrictions they want, we'll break them, we'll show others how to break them and we'll pirate the content out over the web just to make sure they learn that if they fuck with us they'll get hurt.

    There's a lesson pending for the RIAA, and its this. Our rights as consumers are not up for renegotiation, and we don't want our rights to be protected (enforced) by expensive and unreliable DRM. RIAA, you can accept this, or you can pay up for the technology only to see us painlessely circumvent it. We will not be governed by you. That's not the way it works
  • by Snork Asaurus ( 595692 ) on Saturday June 12, 2004 @01:23PM (#9407686) Journal
    "We were total fools back in the 80's", a spokesmouth for the RSPC-RIAA proclaimed. "We listened to what customers wanted and gave them the better quality sound reproduction of digital CD's. Other than shitloads of money, this is how they thank us. We should have just raised the prices again and taught them a lesson. But no more - we're gonna stuff the digital genie back in and keep him there. We are announcing, today, the elimination of the digital CD as a distribution medium . All future recordings will be released on analog wax cylinders only."

    When asked for any additional comments, he would only say "Let them play wax - we'll show the customer who is king."

  • by wodelltech ( 168047 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @08:52AM (#9419330)
    At best, we're taking about 96kbps audio. However, many stations (e.g., NPR [npr.org]) are pursuing dual-program configurations in which the 'main' audio would be transmitted at only 64kbps.

    The RIAA is afraid of us recording 96 (or likely, 64) kbps (highly compressed) audio. With a good signal at a stationary location, some would argue that current FM sounds as good (if not better) than the compressed version. (At the end of the day, it's a subjective issue.) It would seem the RIAA is attempting to make radio more restrictive than it currently is.

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