EMI and Sony Lose Lawsuit Over Crippled Music Disks 407
neves writes "A brazilian consumer has sued EMI and Sony, and won! The reason was a copy protection technology in the best seller album "Tribalistas" that didn't play in his car. You can read about it in Folha de São Paulo (babelfish translation here), brazilian biggest newspaper. They must be very afraid, since EMI vice-president defended the company himself in a lawsuit involving less than US$ 350,00. A more detailed report is in my music site Agenda do Samba & Choro (babelfish here), where we release some of the lawsuit files to make it easier for others to sue them. Since last year, we are calling for a boycott (babelfish) of copy protected albums. The companies appealed, and said that they will take the case to the Supreme Court, because it is a 'question of principles'. The consumer is sueing them again, because all new EMI albums in Brazil are being released with copy protection and won't work in his car."
Funny (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Funny (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Funny (Score:3, Insightful)
The court ruled that the customers had been decieved as to the nature of the disk, the corp tricking them into believing it was a regular CD. EMI now has a month to appose a label on all modified CDs saying "Warning, this disk cannot be read on any home or car player".
I still think they should have hit them at the wallet wh
CarMac! (Score:5, Funny)
Carmack! (Score:4, Funny)
No, but id Software might sue you for trademark infringement.
Help, my brain hurts (Score:5, Funny)
If you find that this process is little thing, the recorders you do not agree.
I'd like to read the articles, but...
--RJ
Re:Help, my brain hurts (Score:3, Funny)
Crippled disks? (Score:4, Funny)
Well if you put Holy Water on your CDs what do you think's gonna happen when you try and play them!?
Re:Crippled disks? (Score:2)
I think 'christened' would probably be a better translation. ;)
Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:3, Insightful)
In Brazil OTOH they're more used to being told what to do by more socialist governments, and the idea of a standard is more easily applicable to the way they work within regulations anyway.
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:2)
what is the ia supposed to be ?
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:2)
Let me know if Boston and Miami Amalgamate.
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:2, Interesting)
Call it an linguistic attempt of anti-propaganda.
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:3, Informative)
1) We are going to discuss Canada policies.
2) We are going to discuss Canadian policy.
The first would mean that we are going to discuss our policy about or towards Canada(maybe we want to punish them for letting people smoke pot or something). The second means we are going to discuss the policies promulgated b
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't defame the laissez-faire approach.
I don't endorse it, but to be fair most laissez-faire economists still believe that market participants have to label goods and services accurately.
Even a laissez-faire capitalist recognizes that selling a "CD" that will not play in a standard CD player for what it is - fraud.
Republicans on the other hand can probably come up with some idea why this is a good thing.
oh please (Score:5, Insightful)
If you seriously believe that the Democrats wouldn't do the same, you need to wake up and smell the fucking coffee.
Stop the partisanship and recognize that both parties have serious issues.
Re:oh please (Score:5, Insightful)
If you get past posturing being above politics, you'll quickly realize that both parties do indeed have very serious flaws and limitations.
But they are very different flaws.
If you think Democrats are prone to immunize large corporations from truthful labeling in the marketplace then you haven't been paying attention.
There used to be a wing of the Republican party that really believed in the strength of the market system. They've been gone since Reagan. So it's true that neither party has sufficient faith in a true free market, but the ways that they interfere with the market are very different.
Re:oh please (Score:5, Insightful)
With a Democratic president. Clinton could have vetoed the bill. If he had vetoed it, it would have been DOA - neither party had the strength needed to pass the bill over his veto. So, yeah - the Democratic president had a lot to do with the DMCA getting passed.
<shrug> It probably wouldn't have made a real difference, anyways. The problem with the current state of politics in the US is that the vast majority of the population thinks that everything is divided on party lines, and that "Democrat" and "Republican" continue to mean something; when in fact, the majority of professional politicians in the US pay attention to monied interests (big business, big media, big unions) and no one else. When you have a Congress that's split 50/50 "Democratic"/Republican" but 80/20 "monied interests"/"we the people", something like the DMCA is going to manage get passed.
Re:Limitations of USian capitalist model (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's see, Sony is from Japan, Vivendi Universal from France, BMG from Germany. What's that about the US? This anti-American BS is completely pointless, not insightful. The US has no monopoly on greedy capitalism.
Excellent news! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Excellent news! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Excellent news! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Excellent news! (Score:4, Interesting)
I know Philadelphia has a fairly large number of unemployed Lawyers. Surely one of them would take up the charge. Hell, I'd set up a fundraiser to pay the court fees.
Although, the folks to be doing the suing should really by Phillips (and ironically) Sony. They license the CD logo and the CD-Audio trademark. Producing materials that cripple the standard is grounds to have a license revoked.
Re:Excellent news! (Score:3, Interesting)
In case you haven't noticed, the CD or Conpact Disk Digital Audio logo has all but dissappeared from the display bins, even at CitGo/7-11.
If it doesn't carry the logo, it gets dropped back in the bin like the trash it is.
Re your sig, I started programming on a 1.79 mhz RCA 1802 cpu, where it took 8 of those 1.79 mhz cycles for one machine cycle. You had
In related news.. (Score:5, Funny)
The President has announced that he is specifically not taking the nuclear option off the table, though he declined to comment further on what exactly he meant by this.
Worldwide fight ? (Score:5, Informative)
you can read the complete article at : http://linuxfr.org/2003/06/26/13036.html/ [linuxfr.org] (in french)
Fine them all their money (Score:2)
What would be a reasonable fine for the music corporations to pay?
Given that they recently forced a student to pay over his life savings, the vile evil filth should have the same done to them -- force them to turn over all their assets, including all their money, property and intellectiual property.
The french lawsuit is two pronged (Score:3, Interesting)
A quick summary of this story. (Score:3, Interesting)
1. There are not one but MULTIPLE lawsuits on that matter in France. The lawsuit ruled this june was brought by the "Consommation Logement et Cadre de Vie" (CCLV) association against EMI. There are pending lawsuits against sony and BMG. Then there is another french consumers association ("UFC Que Choisir") who sued EMI France, Warner France, Universal Pictures Video, Fnac and Auchan (the two latter are distributors).
2. The court
Under US Law (Score:5, Interesting)
I hope it does go to the supreme court so we can get rid of these CDs that infringe on my rights.
Re:Under US Law (Score:2)
Re:Under US Law (Score:2)
pay my legal fees plus 10% (Score:2)
Re:pay my legal fees plus 10% (Score:2)
Re:Under US Law (Score:5, Insightful)
Ummm, yeah, only the 150 and growing signatories to the WTO will be subject to TRIPS, plus what 20 pending applicants. Hell the TRIPS treaty even mentions countries may be as liberal as the USA by 'allowing' american style "fair-use" exceptions to 'intelectual property' (The single quotes are mine, the double quotes theirs.)
Unless you plan to live in Cuba you ignore your rulers in the American congress at your own peril.
Re:Under US Law (Score:3, Informative)
De-Jure yes. I wish Europe was as enlightened in this respect.
De-Facto no. You have fair use, until you use it.
One university I attended, New York University, is under a very strict settlement with the major book publishers because they were sued agreesively by them. After many of the professors named died of heart attacks, presumably from the stress, NYU settled out of court. They now have an office that licenses excerpts of texts for use in
Re:Under US Law (Score:2)
Re:Under US Law (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Under US Law (Score:3, Interesting)
I was looking at Weird Al's "Poodle Hat" in the store the other day, but was confused as to whether or not I could play it in my PC without some Windows-only copy protection thing kicking in, because there was no "CD" symbol on the case.
Re:Under US Law (Score:5, Informative)
"Consumers" have no "rights" (Score:2, Flamebait)
What is the Legal Framework of the Judgement ?? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would be interested in knowing as to what the logical reasoning and the legal framework of the case was.
Was the winning based on something substantial, or could it be just overcome by the CD producer putting up a disclaimer sticker on the CD saying the "this might not work on certain devices." Basically the intention is to understand the depth of the victory.
Could somebody help with some links or any more info??
Re:What is the Legal Framework of the Judgement ?? (Score:5, Informative)
Put the CD on a Mac (I'm running OS X) and 2 partitions are mounted: The first one with the 'player' used to play the disc on Wintel PCs, and the second one with the audio tracks. Drag them to the desktop and... voilá! Instant rip!
Re:DRM data on non-DRM systems (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think you know what DRM is. It is a form of copy protection which uses encryption and tracking data to make sure you can only copy or use the "product" as many times as the "creator" wants. Since when has DRM been used without encryption?
How would your triangle shaped CD work? Even if they have a serial number on it, not everything is connected to the internet to check how many times it has been played. Is there an area which is writable? If so, the players are going to be damn expensive because t
copy protection doesn't work (Score:5, Insightful)
The real solution to stop piracy is to drop the prices on software, music, and movies to a reasonable amount. A friend of mine was offered a free copy of Windows XP and turned it down because he got such a large student discount (I think $20) that it didn't matter to him. Before anyone points out loss of profit from discounted prices, if more people acutally BUY these things at a discount instead of grabbing them off Kazza, these companies would make the same money that they do today.
Re:copy protection doesn't work (Score:5, Funny)
Retailer: How does $200 sound?
C: Way too high.
R: Then $100?
C: I'll pass.
R: But that's a deal! The last guy who was in here paid $150!
C: Would you take $20?
R: If I say no are you going to download it from Kazza?
C: Yep.
R: Where is the pre-crimes enforcement division when you need them?
Re: Where is the pre-crimes enforcement division (Score:3)
Re:copy protection doesn't work (Score:2)
I believe that one of the major reasons in introducing new copy restriction technology is to get the legal system to protect that technology. The technology itself might not be so effective but if circumventing the restri
Re:copy protection doesn't work (Score:2)
Re:copy protection doesn't work (Score:2)
I don't understand why it would be immoral. If it were medicine, I could see how one could consider such a practice immoral, but in this case it's just music.
corporations (Score:4, Insightful)
The deal is, it's too easy and hardly ever have corporations been dissolved, which is also the right of the government (meaning we the people) to do. IF we did that easier and according to law,when these artificial person corporations cease being of the public benefit because of excessive profiteering, we wouldn't be seeing all these abuses and gougings. We regulate commerce in this nation, so YES, we could easily decide if a company was violating the terms of the corporate charter by "making too much profit", ie, "gouging" the people and by so gouging would be in violation of being of benefit to society, and that definetly falls under morals and ethics. that's reason we have so many problems now, attitudes such as you espouse, where "profit" is the ONLY factor in an incorporation. It is ONE factor, but that's the one seized on, but it's not supposed to be the only factor.
For an obvious example, Microsoft needs their corporate charter dissolved, IMO, blatant long running gouging and selling broken software and committing felonius acts. These large music and movie companies, again, chronic serial price gouging and actually engaging in fraud and deceit and bribery (payola). They should have been dissolved a long time ago and the boards of directors chucked in the pokye and disallowed from being in any other corporations, ever. And corporations donating money to political campaio\gns? That's pure bribery, anyone can see that, illegal as all get out. Buying votes, it should be illegal as hell and the ones who engage in it strung up as traitors, both the recipients and the givers. I'm completely serious,struing up, hung, treason charges, this "bribery as legal" is insane, it's nuts, it makes a mockery of the vote, and now we have a professiobnal class of politicians who's sole job is to garnner as much bribe money as possible, then to use slick PR advertising and controlling the government as a shared junta to make sure they stay in their positions to be bribed. We need to lose that stuff, like yesterday, and rein in these out of control INTERNATIONAL -not "US" but international- corporations who gouge the US citizen. Do that to a few hundred or so of the most abusive corporations and corporate/government crooks posing as "leaders", and the honest ones could make the money then, still be profitable, and consumers wouldn't be taken all the time, and the nation as a whole would be better off.
The other way, the way it's run now, is some weird form of international corporate anarchy based on bribes and blackmail mostly, it doesn't exist inside our constitutional framework, much as some people think it says that. The US is not organized anarchy, it's a union of organized individuals and states, based around that union, organized for some modicum of common good and benefit, defense, and trade. But the trade is supposed to not only be profitable for the companies and indidividuals inside those companies, but ALSO good for the nation,it's SUPPOSED to be an equal deal there, ie, they are SUPPOSED to look out for the nation, not just their international "bottom line". That's not to say they can't make m
is US$ 350,00 a lot of money, or a little? (Score:3, Funny)
US$ 350.00 - A little bit of money, but waste of time
US$ 350,000 - A lot of money, well worth the lawsuit
US$ 35,000 - A fair bit, still worth the lawsuit
BUT WHAT THE HELL IS US$ 350,00
-isolenz
Re:is US$ 350,00 a lot of money, or a little? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:is US$ 350,00 a lot of money, or a little? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:is US$ 350,00 a lot of money, or a little? (Score:2, Informative)
hmm brazillian $1,000 dollars is what was awarded
using this [xe.com]convertor i get
345.639 USD
$350 (Score:2)
Oh RIGHT. (Score:5, Insightful)
It is difficult for me to read this sentence and not be a little angry at its blatant hypocrisy. "Principles" indeed:
The vice-president of EMI, Bannitz Luiz, affirms that she is inevitable will happen problems in situations of implantation of new technologies. "the consumer complains, we changes the product. But it is lamentable that certain people use this as extortion form "
Right, because not being able to listen to a CD in my car is an "inevitable problem." And suing them because I can't do this is "extortion." Exactly what principles do these companies subscribe to? (Don't answer.)
The only principle involved here is an affirmation of one's rights as a consumer.
Re:Oh RIGHT. (Score:5, Interesting)
When the consumer sues its Extortion.
When the RIAA sues its protecting your property rights
Re:Oh RIGHT. (Score:2)
Right, because not being able to listen to a CD in my car is an "inevitable problem." And suing them because I can't do this is "extortion." Exactly what principles do these companies subscribe to? (Don't answer.)
I hope the appeal court changes the $350 fine to $350,000.
I didn't buy it (Score:2, Insightful)
If I can't copy the songs to my MP3 player, I won't buy the damn thing. I imagine they've lost a lot of sales.
By the way, all of Tribalista's songs are available in Kazaa, proving copy protection doesn't work. Talk about the medicine being worst than the disease.
Setting a precedence (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Setting a precedence (Score:5, Insightful)
That thought right there is what seems to scare the big guys the most. See, what they want is for you to own nothing after putting down your hard-earned cash.
They don't want you to own the cd iteself, because then you could give it to someone else since it is your physical property. They most definitely don't want you to own a perpetual license to listen to the CD, because then they couldn't charge you for each time you hear the song.
Looks like (Score:3, Funny)
Brzailians have their priorities right (Score:5, Funny)
Consumers are copying music ... No es nada
Music company puts in anti-piracy system ... Who cares
You can't play music in you car while trying to seduce the seniorita ... LAWSUIT! Revolución!
Clear Labeling (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Clear Labeling (Score:2, Interesting)
Surely there _is_ something wrong with copy-protected CDs if at the same time all blank media is "piracy-taxed"?
Barking Cats (Score:5, Insightful)
A copy-protected 'CD' is a contradiction in terms.
Re:Barking Cats (Score:3, Insightful)
We know this, being up on such issues, but the average music buyer does not. Jane Q. Public expects that what she buys IS a CD and will work in any player/drive she owns. Instead she ends up with a shiny, high-tech coaster.
Another related problem is that real CD's usually aren't labeled as such on the outside of the jewel box. You can't be sure it's the real deal until you've taken it home and opened the package. I've checked my own collection and none have a CD logo on the outside. It's invariabl
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
babelfish everywhere. (Score:5, Funny)
Reading article i not can.
Like Yoda speaking am.
Help.
Remember.... (Score:2)
However, its perfectly acceptable to insult their lineage, mock the size of their respective genitalia, and generally make them feel inferior to you in every way, which, of course, they are =).
I'd be surprised if something like this managed to happen in the US though. Theres to much lean and sway in the judicial system for megacorps. If it did happen however, I can only liken Sony and EMI to a three year old sent
annoy the shop, leave them at the counter (Score:2, Interesting)
Shop will have to put them back themselves. It's their fault if they sell faulty items.
Re:annoy the shop, leave them at the counter (Score:2)
Re:annoy the shop, leave them at the counter (Score:4, Insightful)
Tell the artist directly (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure enough, out he came to sign copies of his CD for those who were going to buy a copy. I worked my way to the front with a copy of his CD in hand, and handed it over. I pointed out the copy protection notice, then said "although I really liked your show and your new stuff, I'm not going to buy a copy of your CD since I can't play it on my PC or in my car".
He looked a bit shocked, and asked what I was talking about. I said that the copy protection would prevent me from playing the CD on my PC or in my car, and that since that was where I listen to music 99% of the time, his CD wouldn't be much use to me. I handed him one of my business cards and told him to call me if he wanted to talk about it further - there was a bunch of people behind me waiting for their CDs to be signed...
I got the impression that he either didn't know his CD was released copy protected, that he wasn't sure what copy protection actually meant for a CD, or that he was surprised that someone like me (a 40 year old, normal looking guy, not an obviously raving half-wit) would confront him with something like this after his show.
I also got the impression that he was going to look into it further - he's a 40ish guy also, with a fairly niche appeal and presumably wife/kids/mortgage etc. like the rest of us. He probably didn't like hearing a fan tell him people couldn't play his music in the car or at their PC.
I'll check out his CD in the stores again in another month or so to see if it's had the copy protection removed.
Seriously, can the editors do their jobs please? (Score:3, Insightful)
Music Disks?
Ahem. Compact Discs, Hard Disk Drives. It's not that hard to get right.
I'm sure someone will mod this down as flamebait but, seriously, would it kill the editors to do their jobs and actually edit the articles that get posted?
I second that (Score:2)
The editors should left the ",00" off of "$350" also. I swear, half of the comments are about that. It's been educational and all, and that's how the poster posted it because he/she's probably from a country where that's the decimal separator, but the fact that the suit was an exact dollar amount is irrelevant to the story, and should have been left out
Did you ever notice... (Score:5, Interesting)
I am strongly in favour of globalization, but it must be done with the interests of the public, instead of large vested interests. That means doing away with crap such as region coded DVDs and damaging tariffs. I should be able to travel whatever products I choose from anywhere I want, excepting only really offensive stuff like narcotics and weaponry.
Re:Did you ever notice... (Score:4, Insightful)
I should be able to travel whatever products I choose from anywhere I want, excepting only really offensive stuff like narcotics and weaponry.
Baptists:
Nudists:
Muslims:
Jews:
Loggers:
Earth First:
Move along people. There's nothing to see here. (Score:3, Interesting)
Laissez faire? Not in USA (Score:3, Informative)
Several replies to this article have mentioned the US's laissez faire capitalist system. It isn't. Capitalist, yes; laissez faire, no.
If the US system were laissez faire, then the government would keep its bought-and-paid-for hands off the economic system. We would have a Free Market system, which is at its core a laissez faire system. It means keep your hands off and let the marketplace decide what products and companies survive, and for how long. Capitalism is not synonymous with a free market, nor is a free market needed in a capitalist system. Actually, they are incompatible.
Folks, the Republicans don't want a free market or anything resembling 'laissez faire' approaches to capitalism. They want what the Democrats want, a system that favors their big-money supporters. The only difference is who those supporters are.
Please, when you bandy terms about, at least have some idea of how to use them in context, and how the real world works.
Have a nice war,
Mal the Elder
Maybe I'll sue as well!!! (Score:3, Funny)
I just won't mention to the judge that I don't have a cd player in my car
commenting on was story (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I wonder how effective this will be... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I wonder how effective this will be... (Score:2, Informative)
I didnt realize the only things that matter
in the world happen in the US.
Re:I wonder how effective this will be... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I wonder how effective this will be... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wouldn't your posting this information on slashdot:
"buy your CD's from Brazil in order to get media that isn't crippled"
Just a thought.
FREENET=FREESPEECH
Re:I wonder how effective this will be... (Score:5, Informative)
Sec 103 of the DMCA amends Title 17 of the U.S. Code to prohibit circumvention of a technological measure that effective controls access to a work.
It then goes on to define the relevant terms thusly:
"(A) to 'circumvent a technological measure' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and
(B) a technological measure 'effectively controls access to a work' if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work."
Re:I wonder how effective this will be... (Score:3)
Languages and dialects (Score:3, Informative)
"Brazilian" is a language mutually intelligible with "Portuguese".
To many linguists such as Dr. John McWhorter (author of The Power of Babel, ISBN: 0716744732), "a language" and "a dialect" are synonymous. Defining "language" as a set of mutually intelligible dialects fails because mutual intelligibility happens on a gradient. It's possible for A and B to be mutually intelligible, and so B and C, and so C and D, but not A and D. Chickasaw and Choctaw "languages" are mutually intelligible but called sepa
Re:I wonder how effective this will be... (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:I wonder.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Pretty sure that in US terms it would be 350.00, but it's not a typo. Sound odd?
In a lot of countries they reverse the roles of the comma and the period in numbers. Confused the hell out of me when I first saw it, but it's true. $350,000.00 is written $350.000,00 for instance. Disturbing, isn't it?
Re:SCO!!! (Score:2)
Re:The irony of standardization.. (Score:2)
An irony of "standardization" is that that some of the pro-open standards crowd insists on using the comma-to-indicate-decimals notation that has is used essentially only in northern europe. it's time for that convention to die.
Since when is Brazil in northern Europe?
Re:The irony of standardization.. (Score:2)
The comma as seperator is far more prevalent than "just" in Northern Europe. I think it'd be safe to say a large portion the population of the world uses it.
Re:The irony of standardization.. (Score:3)
Except that I'm not an American. Still, your gratuitous anti-american comment fits in well in slashdot, the land of gratuitous slander.
What percentage of the world do you think still uses the comma separator? I estimate that is less than 15%. Asia does not. North America does not. Much of europe does not. Even my german research colleagues
Re:Why this is a dangerous precedent (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why this is a dangerous precedent (Score:5, Insightful)
perfectly, you know
I disagree.
Consumers buying a disk that looks like a CD, smells like a CD and might reasonably be expected to perform like a CD, have the right to also expect that that disk will play in any machine that carries the official Compact Disc logo -- that's what standards are all about.
The fact that the music industry has deviated from the standard, yet hardly go out of their way to explain that customers are no longer buying a Compact Disc, is deceptive business practice -- something most countries' consumer laws consider to be an illegal act.
If it's good enough for a pack of cigarettes to carry a large, obvious warning, why can't music disks be tagged in the same way by law. The current fine print that says "Enhanced Audio Disk" or whatever just doesn't cut it.