SBF Asks For 5-Year Prison Sentence, Calls 100-Year Recommendation 'Grotesque' (arstechnica.com) 189
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Convicted FTX fraudster Sam Bankman-Fried pleaded for a lenient prison sentence in a court filing yesterday, saying that he isn't motivated by greed and "is already being punished." Bankman-Fried requested a sentence of 63 to 78 months, or 5.25 to 6.5 years. Because of "Sam's charitable works and demonstrated commitment to others, a sentence that returns Sam promptly to a productive role in society would be sufficient, but not greater than necessary, to comply with the purposes of sentencing," the court filing (PDF) said. Bankman-Fried's filing also said that he maintains his innocence and intends to appeal his convictions.
A presentence investigation report (PSR) prepared by a probation officer recommended that Bankman-Fried be sentenced to 100 years in prison, according to the filing. "That recommendation is grotesque," SBF's filing said, arguing that it is based on an erroneously calculated loss of $10 billion. The $10 billion loss asserted in the PSR is "illusory" because the "victims are poised to recover -- were always poised to recover -- a hundred cents on the dollar" in bankruptcy proceedings, SBF's filing said. The filing urged the court to "reject the PSR's barbaric proposal" of 100 years, saying that such sentences should only be for "heinous conduct" like terrorism and child sexual abuse.
The founder and ex-CEO of cryptocurrency exchange FTX, Bankman-Fried was convicted on seven charges with a combined maximum sentence of 110 years after a monthlong trial in US District Court for the Southern District of New York. The charges included wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud, securities fraud, commodities fraud, and money laundering. US government prosecutors are required to make a sentencing recommendation by March 15, and US District Judge Lewis Kaplan is scheduled to issue a sentence on March 28.
A presentence investigation report (PSR) prepared by a probation officer recommended that Bankman-Fried be sentenced to 100 years in prison, according to the filing. "That recommendation is grotesque," SBF's filing said, arguing that it is based on an erroneously calculated loss of $10 billion. The $10 billion loss asserted in the PSR is "illusory" because the "victims are poised to recover -- were always poised to recover -- a hundred cents on the dollar" in bankruptcy proceedings, SBF's filing said. The filing urged the court to "reject the PSR's barbaric proposal" of 100 years, saying that such sentences should only be for "heinous conduct" like terrorism and child sexual abuse.
The founder and ex-CEO of cryptocurrency exchange FTX, Bankman-Fried was convicted on seven charges with a combined maximum sentence of 110 years after a monthlong trial in US District Court for the Southern District of New York. The charges included wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud, securities fraud, commodities fraud, and money laundering. US government prosecutors are required to make a sentencing recommendation by March 15, and US District Judge Lewis Kaplan is scheduled to issue a sentence on March 28.
OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:2)
Start with 10 years for his role in this mess and after that parole him as soon as everyone with these "illusory" losses is made whole.
Re:OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:5, Funny)
Peg the length of his sentence to the (wildly fluctuating) price of a crypto currency. :-)
Maybe one day he'll get lucky and his time served will surpass it.
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Prisons should only be used for violent people who need to be physically separated from civilized society.
For everyone else, there are better punishments.
It's silly how putting people in cages has become the default remedy for every problem.
SBF could wear an ankle tracker while cleaning bedpans in nursing homes for 60 hours per week.
That way, he can contribute to society instead of being a burden.
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That way, he can contribute to society instead of being a burden.
Sociopaths don't contribute to society. He has shown no remorse for his crimes and still denies he did anything wrong [apnews.com].
Better to just shoot him and move on.
Re:OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:4, Interesting)
Sociopaths don't contribute to society.
Why not? Sociopaths can clean a bedpan just as well as anyone else.
He has shown no remorse for his crimes
So? Why is it better for him to be unremorseful sitting in a prison cell instead of being unremorseful while scrubbing a bedpan?
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Why not? Sociopaths can clean a bedpan just as well as anyone else.
But how do you make sure he never, ever touches a computer?
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Are you so afraid of his salesmanship that you don't trust yourself to withstand his pitches unless he's in jail?
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But how do you make sure he never, ever touches a computer?
Do you really believe that if he touches a computer, he will instantly become a billionaire again?
Re:OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:5, Interesting)
Why not? Sociopaths can clean a bedpan just as well as anyone else.
Not sure about sociopaths, but after living with a narcissist (which is more likely what Sam is) I can tell you that attempting to force such people to do any productive work they don't want will create MORE work for the people doing the forcing than it would be if they'd just do it themselves. Or in other words: A net loss for society.
I do agree that prison isn't the only answer to crime. But there are things between cells and community work. Scandinavia has prisons that are essentially prisoner-run and focus on teaching crafts and useful skills to the prisoners so they can re-integrate with society. I hear the model is quite successful.
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At a prison in Sweden, the guards accidentally left the doors unlocked overnight.
The prisoners escaped from their room, went to the kitchen, and ... baked a cake.
They then ate the cake in the common area while they watched TV.
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I can tell you that attempting to force such people to do any productive work they don't want will create MORE work for the people doing the forcing than it would be if they'd just do it themselves.
Total state expenditure for locking people up has topped $43bn / year. There are costs to keeping someone locked up as well.
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That's true. The net minus may be less than locking him up. I'm just saying anyone who thinks that people like Sam would contribute a net plus to society don't understand how such people think.
Re:OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:5, Insightful)
He has shown no remorse for his crimes and still denies he did anything wrong [apnews.com].
He separated a bunch of fools from their money, which is perfectly legal in different contexts. Some examples off the top of my head:
You can sell someone a college education in an unmarketable major and convince them to pay for it with a loan that can't be discharged in bankruptcy.
You can offer revolving credit schemes where your customers can easily end up paying more in interest than the original cost of their purchases.
You can sell supplements that have no scientifically proven medical efficacy.
You can sell vacant land that isn't zoned to be improved.
You can sell a used vehicle with no warranty that breaks the moment it is driven from the lot.
You can sell a timeshare with maintenance fees that are so high, the ownership itself is essentially a burden, and where it's not uncommon for third-party resale to involve the seller actually paying a buyer to take the timeshare off of their hands.
Gambling, but granted that is an activity which is illegal or limited to specific forms (such as state lotteries) in most states.
SBF's mistake was that what he did was already recognized as fraud, and that's mostly the case because rich investor types really hate being taken advantage of and they have the wealth and influence to buy favorable laws to protect themselves. If SBF was instead selling boner pill supplements that didn't actually work, to the average middle-class Joe who can't get it up, we wouldn't be reading this story right now because that's perfectly legal.
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Oh honestly, theres a part of me that thinks he should have been given the presidential medal of honor for what he did. He turned billionares into millionares, and millionares into bankerupts, and mostly his victims are the same people that have gentrified san fransisco into a place where most of its long time families cant afford to live anymore, and have turned our kids into zombies with 24/7 social media gadgets. Oh no, some rich douchebag cant afford a secon superyacht, well cry me a river while I try t
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This is like saying Ted Bundy shouldn't have gone to prison because soldiers don't go to prison for killing the enemy during a war.
Actually, captured enemy combatants do go to prison. They only avoid prison if they manage to make it back to their home country without being captured, so that's a matter of context as well. Some people actually aren't okay with the concept of murder being considered acceptable under the right context; we call them "conscientious objectors."
Re:OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:5, Insightful)
So should Ted Bundy have just started a war and joined the army to get his kicks?
When I served in the military, I knew a lot of guys who would've been in prison if they had stayed in the civilian world.
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He separated a bunch of fools from their money
Yes he did, but to be clear that was *not* one of the crimes he is being punished for since that isn't illegal. What he is being punished for is what he did with that money.
It's not the context that matters, but rather your understanding of the fundamental crime involved. None of what you listed is fraudulent and as such completely irrelevant to what SBF has done.
You're entitled to be an arsehat. The line gets drawn when you break a clearly defined rule. E.g. you can sell a bomb of a vehicle. However if tha
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You fail to follow the logic.
High security Prison's are for people who will likely re-offend violently.
Everything below that is for those who killed someone in self-defense, or a crime of passion but perhaps it came off as premeditated. Everything else, from drug crimes to financial crimes are "society damage" and letting someone back out into society where they basically got a slap on the wrist, isn't a punishment.
The only people who should be allowed back into society without serving time in jail or priso
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Believe it or not, it was specifically written into the 13th Amendment as an exception.
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
So that's not true, actually, one could sentence him to bedpan emptying.
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Military conscription is also a form of slavery that is specifically allowed in the United States, should the government see fit.
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The conscription thing is interesting. The real crime is not signing up for Selective Service. After that, you've agreed to let it happen and you're not living up to your agreement, which includes criminal penalties. Nice dodge of the 13th Amendment. Like the world's worst EULA.
Re: OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:2)
Signing your selective service card doesn't mean you agree with the draft. Your agreement was never required and you can try fighting the draft regardless if you did your selective service card when you were 18. You sign to attest that the infornation is accurate to the best of your knowledge. They hate liars more than the people who never fill out the card.
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Failure to register with Selective Service is a violation of the Military Selective Service Act. Conviction for such a violation may result in imprisonment for up to five years and/or a fine of not more than $250,000.
Also, try filling out a SF86 and indicating you didn't sign up.
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Meh... they won't ever be made whole. 100 years is grotesque though.
Considering it's a non-violent crime: I would say give him 12 years, followed by 5-years of Supervised release.
One of the terms for completing his Supervised release should be that he shall complete Payment of restitution in full for all remaining losses.
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Meh... they won't ever be made whole. 100 years is grotesque though.
Considering it's a non-violent crime: I would say give him 12 years, followed by 5-years of Supervised release.
If one ascribes to this level of "justice," would that necessarily imply that stealing less than $10 billion should in a sentence of far less than that number of years? Yet, in our society, we push for 3-strikes and out for stealing thousands of dollars and leniency for stealing billions of dollars.
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Yet, in our society, we push for 3-strikes and out for stealing thousands of dollars and leniency for stealing billions of dollars.
Well of course. It's always been a fight between the haves and have-nots.
If the have-nots don't behave, the haves make sure they end up in a dark hole. If the haves don't behave, he's slapped on the wrist and they laugh about it at a cocktail party.
Unless of course the have rips off other haves... then you get Madoff'd.
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If one ascribes to this level of "justice," would that necessarily imply that stealing less than $10 billion should in a sentence of far less than that number of years? Yet, in our society, we push for 3-strikes and out for stealing thousands of dollars and leniency for stealing billions of dollars.
Indeed if 10 billion is worth 10 years then the typical shoplifter is hardly worth arresting for the few seconds that would be an equivalent sentence.
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Re:OK, so 10-100 years with early parole if (Score:5, Funny)
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No parole in Federal prisons.
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I don't really have a lot of sympathy for the people who gave a bunch of dumb twenty-somethings in Bermuda obscene amounts of money and "money" to do, uh, something with. Consider it a valuable lesson in not being a not-twenty-something-anymore idiot.
Imprisoning one of the dumb twenty-somethings for a hundred years because Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan lost their collective minds does seem pretty harsh.
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Oh hell no. If you cause financial losses, you are personally responsible for all of it. If you can't pay it back, then you stay in jail until you work it off.
Good luck working off those literal slave-wages in jail.
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Oh hell no. If you cause financial losses, you are personally responsible for all of it. If you can't pay it back, then you stay in jail until you work it off.
Good luck working off those literal slave-wages in jail.
That's what I said. Minimum 10 years, can parole after 10 years only if everyone is made whole
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Start with 10 years for his role in this mess and after that parole him as soon as everyone with these "illusory" losses is made whole.
Or better yet, stick him with the 100 year sentence and then after the defense can prove that every victim was made whole, drop the sentence to 5 years minimum, minus time served for the 100 year stint.
If we get caught, we're not going to white-collar (Score:5)
If we get caught, we're not going to white-collar resort prison. No, no, no. We're going to federal POUND ME IN THE ASS prison.
Re: If we get caught, we're not going to white-col (Score:2)
Much more appropriate sentence (Score:2)
Judge:
"Sam Bankman-Fried, you lead a trite, meaningless life. And you are a
very bad person!"
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Am I the only one that when I hear that name, Sam Bankman-Fried.....that the first image I get in my head is a hobbit?
productive role in society? (Score:5, Insightful)
"...a sentence that returns Sam promptly to a productive role in society would be sufficient"
What would that productive role be? Defrauding people. Did SBF ever do anything else? Born in 1992, fraud is all SBF knows.
Re:productive role in society? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Because of "Sam's charitable works"
The "charity" was to buy political favors with stolen money.
So how does one get through to a full blown narcissist? It's times like this the Eighth Amendment becomes inconvenient.
Lock him up until Full Retirement Age, then make him live on Supplemental Security Income?
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It's really easy to be charitable with other people's money.
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SBF didn't kill himself.
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SBF didn't kill himself.
Yet.
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What kind of threat is that? So he's threatening to make a few politician's lives uncomfortable? In what way is that a conce
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Blackmail being a crime, that's quite of interest to the justice system.
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That's why he needs to be in prison... to prevent him from committing more fraud... for a long time.
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What would that productive role be? Defrauding people. Did SBF ever do anything else? Born in 1992, fraud is all SBF knows.
Don't be ridiculous, SBF isn’t even really in prison for defrauding people. He’s in prison for defrauding extremely rich people. Just like Elizabeth Holmes and Bernie Madoff, stealing from the wrong people while rich is actually a crime. Stealing from the plebs is a time honored American pastime, that’s AOK. Take a penny from a Billionaire and a death sentence is too light.
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But see - defrauding millionaires and billionaires is OK. They'll recover.
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The real question is what is the purpose of locking him up?
If it's to reform him, then it only needs to be long enough to do that. If it's to deter other people from doing likewise, it's unlikely to work and no amount of time behind bars will have the desired effect.
If it's just revenge for the victims, then making them and the rest of us pay for the rest of his natural life doesn't seem like a good way to get it.
Honestly, 5 years and close monitoring afterwards seems like enough, IF he is willing to help p
The punishment should be based (Score:5, Insightful)
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Guy deserves 100 years for being stupid rich and his choices of sex partners.
You don't understand (Score:4, Insightful)
Sam says - "I'm rich. I come from an affluent family. Prison isn't for people like me!"
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While I have no doubt that's what he says inside his head, since Leona Helmsley's [wikipedia.org] " "We don't pay taxes; only the little people pay taxes" comment, defense attorney's have coached their clients a lot better on what to say out loud.
Re: You don't understand (Score:2)
The only thing grotesque here is his rhetoric-diarrhea he keeps spewing. It gives an interesting glimpse into the psyche and thought process of a filthy rich, wealthy privileged family background mindset. Even in the face of utter greed, corruption and stealing literal billions, Sam-Fraud is STILL running his mouth and trying to get a better deal and still trying to twist and bend reality.
He is the prime example of rules for thee but not for me. He is the picture book perfect face of some of the worst the f
Free Translation Service (Score:2)
Bankman-Fried requested a sentence of 63 to 78 months, or 5.25 to 6.5 years. Because of "Sam's charitable works and demonstrated commitment to others, a sentence that returns Sam promptly to a productive role in society would be sufficient, but not greater than necessary, to comply with the purposes of sentencing," the court filing (PDF) said
TRANSLATION: "Yes, I fucked over tons of people and caused loads of families to lose their homes and savings while I partied in the Bahamas, but I mean, gosh, I'm reall
100 years in not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
He stole 30441 years of peoples time/money (at $40 p/h),
this chump has no idea of the value of money, he took more time than society has ever existed, mf is lucky he ain't dead, lotta people don't take kindly to losing that kind of time/money.
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If you can't do the time, don't do the crime (Score:2)
The poor baby.
1,000,000+ accounts (Score:5, Insightful)
Gimme that money and I'll be charitable too (Score:2)
Keep that psycho away from people. No remorse: he'll do it again.
Ross Ulbricht (Score:2)
Interesting to compare with the sentencing of Ross Ulbricht who is serving a double life sentence plus 40 years without parole.
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I find it really illuminating that libertarians find THIS guy to be a hero. It tells me there’s really not much line between libertarianism and anarchism.
SBF’scrimes arent
Wasnâ(TM)t he already sentenced to be CEO of (Score:2)
Seems like punishment enough.
It still hasn't registered in SBF's tiny brain (Score:3)
A 100 year setence IS grotesque... (Score:3, Insightful)
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Idiotic Americans... zero "innovation" or creativity when it comes to crime. I've lived in the USA all my life and you'd not believe how fast their brains turn off when the topic of crime comes up. Emotions, yes, but no brains.
A huge fraudster needs to be prevented from doing any fraud again. This can be done without any jail time. He needs to pay back the damage he created; which isn't likely given his talent is fraud and not likely real business or real market value. He can pay back a massively high % of
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It's because the government has decided that basically every punishment besides prison is "cruel and unusual", so prison is it. It's insane, really. Nobody benefits from someone like him being in prison and there are other ways to punish him. Release him to the world, make him work a menial job with no computer access (not even a cell phone) for the rest of his life, have the court take all of his paychecks and give him enough to eat and pay rent, with any excess going to his victims. He can then be an
Entitled and privileged (Score:2)
This is a great example of the sense of entitlement and privilege held my many people today. Just because his parents are rich and influential, he does not deserve any special consideration for his crimes. All the people he defrauded and all the money he stole are the determining factors here and the amount is so high that the punishment deserves to be astronomically high, as well. It's clear from his attitude that this spoiled little snit will never be a productive member of society. Rot in jail, Sam.
That's what happens when you steal from the rich (Score:3)
If you want a light sentence, steal from the poor like Scott Tucker. If you steal from the rich like Bernie Madoff they'll lock you up for a zillion years.
priorities (Score:2)
saying that such sentences should only be for "heinous conduct" like terrorism and child sexual abuse.
What is he thinking? That children or lives are more important than MONEY ? What a daft assertion!
(he's a criminal and deserves to be locked up for all I know. But there is merit to the argument that 100 years is excessive and an artefact of how sentences are calculated)
Executing him is technically a shorter sentence (Score:2)
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Irrelevant since Democrats are currently in control of the legal system, and will be for quite some time.
If you believe that, then the Supreme Court is just like regular court but with sour cream and tomatoes.
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Eager to see you forget your prediction in 2 years when you're spouting new bullshit.
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Remember kids it pays bigly to support the party in power!
Indeed [theguardian.com]. Commit fraud to the tune of $230 million, go to jail, get pardoned by a criminal, then go about committing fraud again. What a life.
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Republicans spent a billion tax payer dollars trying to find Hillary guilty of something other than being a bitch.
Innocent. Probably not legally guilty definitely not.
Trump was in office for 4 years
How many hundreds of people where willing to spill the beans on him?
No one including Hickory is exempt from that kond of employee.
Look at Bill clinton how many people came forward about his sexual behaviors? 6,8 more?
Hillory for being a carpet bagging bitxh(still sore about her being a senato
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You missed the point people lined up to betray bill clintons sex secrets, trumps everything, twitter, etc
Hillary didnt have hundreds lining up to tattle on her. No matter how many actively disliked her. (Myself included)
Hunter biden has a laptop tech and a russian mole.
I asked for actual evedience. Every single charge againist trump has to stand up to a very protective of Trump supreme court. Hillary never had such a luxury.
Re:Robbing Hood? (Score:4, Informative)
Both sides bad, am I right? What crimes did Hillary commit again?
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Nobody ever wrote a song called Fuck The Fire Department
I think you're going to need to change your sig, because I asked ChatGPT to do exactly that and the result was terrible. [pastebin.com]
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Technically, ChatGPT isn't a somebody.
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Re: Robbing Hood? (Score:2)
Also, Biden's documents were at his private home, Trump's documents were in Mar-a-Lago, a private club that can be accessed by other individuals.
Many people like to equate those two situations because th
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How many years all together have the Republicans spent investigating Hillary now?
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Bankman-Fried said in an interview in late November that his donations to Republicans were roughly equal to those he made to Democrats, but that "all my Republican donations were dark." He also said he made all of these donations during the primary contests.
"Reporters freak the f*** out if you donate to a Republican, because they're all super liberal. And I didn't want to have that fight, so I just made all the Republican ones dark," he said in the interview, adding he thought he may have been the "second or third biggest" GOP donor this cycle.
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Sure, I believe a man who scammed billions of dollars while coking out in orgies on his private island and is now looking at 100 years for his fraud and deception.
You, too, huh?
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What reason does he have to lie?
FTX was a large donor to Republicans via not dark-money, and you're surprised that a billionaire donated with dark money?
Do you think he's some kind of political ideological megadonor? You can't seriously be that stupid.
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None, there's no way a man looking at 100 years for lying would ... lie.
I'm with you bro! All the way!
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Well for one, by claiming boaf sides he gets idiots like you to carry water for him, and a lighter sentence since he wasn't laundering money for a political party, just donating to keep them off his ass.