Leaked Emails Show Crime App Citizen Is Testing On-Demand Security Force (vice.com) 98
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Crime and neighborhood watch app Citizen has ambitions to deploy private security workers to the scene of disturbances at the request of app users, according to leaked internal Citizen documents and Citizen sources. The plans mark a dramatic expansion of Citizen's purview. It is currently an app where users report "incidents" in their neighborhoods and, based on those reports and police scanner transcriptions, the app sends "real-time safety alerts" to users about crime and other incidents happening near where a user is located. It is essentially a mapping app that allows users to both report and learn about crime (or what users of the app perceive to be crime) in their neighborhood. The introduction of in-person, private security forces drastically alters the service, and potential impact, that Citizen may offer in the future, and provides more context as to why a Citizen-branded vehicle has been spotted driving around Los Angeles. The news comes after Citizen offered a $30,000 bounty against a person it falsely accused of starting a wildfire.
In short, the product, described as "security response" in internal emails, would have Citizen send a car with private security forces to an app user, according to the former employee. A private security company working with Citizen would provide the response staff, the former employee added. A second Citizen source confirmed this description of the service. Citizen has been actively testing the program, with what the company describes as quick response times and instant communication between Citizen and security partners, according to the emails.
Currently, Citizen offers a subscription product called "Protect," which costs $19.99 per month. Protect sends a user's location to a Citizen employee when it's turned on, can stream video to a "Protect agent" when activated using a safeword, and is pitched to users as a "digital bodyguard." Protect also advertises "Instant emergency response to your exact location," and says "Live monitoring means you never have to walk alone." It is not clear if the private security response would be tied to Protect or another service. A Citizen spokesperson told Motherboard that "LAPS offers a personal rapid response service that we are testing internally with employees as a small test. For example, if someone would like an escort to walk them home late at night, they can request this service. We have spoken with various partners in designing this pilot project." They declined to answer other questions from Motherboard.
In short, the product, described as "security response" in internal emails, would have Citizen send a car with private security forces to an app user, according to the former employee. A private security company working with Citizen would provide the response staff, the former employee added. A second Citizen source confirmed this description of the service. Citizen has been actively testing the program, with what the company describes as quick response times and instant communication between Citizen and security partners, according to the emails.
Currently, Citizen offers a subscription product called "Protect," which costs $19.99 per month. Protect sends a user's location to a Citizen employee when it's turned on, can stream video to a "Protect agent" when activated using a safeword, and is pitched to users as a "digital bodyguard." Protect also advertises "Instant emergency response to your exact location," and says "Live monitoring means you never have to walk alone." It is not clear if the private security response would be tied to Protect or another service. A Citizen spokesperson told Motherboard that "LAPS offers a personal rapid response service that we are testing internally with employees as a small test. For example, if someone would like an escort to walk them home late at night, they can request this service. We have spoken with various partners in designing this pilot project." They declined to answer other questions from Motherboard.
Wake up samurai (Score:2)
Business model (Score:1, Insightful)
"Uber for mercenaries".
Re:Business model (Score:4, Insightful)
"Thugs as a service"
"The Karen button"
Re: Business model (Score:2)
Re: Business model (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit. Sounds like a great service. I am happy to pay for my protection. Everyone who pays taxes effectively does. Private security that follows you beyond your HOA. Sounds great
Uh, just remember one thing here when sourcing the private security force in charge of your life.
You get what you pay for.
You're expecting Chuck Norris out of this "service". You're gonna get Karen Kuntstain, who can't stop bitching about your overzealous meat-grilling that's offending her vegan cat.
Re: Business model (Score:5, Insightful)
You will get guys who like playing cop but for some reason can't be real cops.
Presumably the will be Uber-style "independent contractors", controlled by an app.
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
You will get guys who like playing cop but for some reason can't be real cops.
And cops are of course guys who like playing soldiers but for some reason can't be real soldiers. So these will be basically reject rejects.
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You will get guys who like playing cop but for some reason can't be real cops.
And cops are of course guys who like playing soldiers but for some reason can't be real soldiers. So these will be basically reject rejects.
There are many police officers who used to serve in the military. The U.S. even has a program to help and support them in making the transition.
https://cops.usdoj.gov/vetstocops
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Re: Business model (Score:1)
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Playing cop is much more fun than playing soldier. You get to be the king of your little domain, instant respect in your town or city because you have the uniform, badge and licence to murder people with impunity.
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Playing cop is much more fun than playing soldier. You get to be the king of your little domain, instant respect in your town or city because you have the uniform, badge and licence to murder people with impunity.
Make no mistake that a large invisible blue line often protects those you label as having a "licence to murder people with impunity."
And it's only gonna less than a six-pack of Joe Rednecks trying that shit that go to fucking prison, before society wakes up and realizes they don't have that protection or immunity. To a judge and jury, you're just a untrained moron with a gun.
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Just wait until someone calls them on you.
You could end up in the middle of a shootout between rival apps.
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...this is like the prequel to Snowcrash.
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Exactly what I was thinking.
If this is a model for a "corporate security force" then when bullet's are flying, who's going to be the meat and what do you do when your friend is the meat.
In a vehicle, many years ago, over the radio, I could hear my friends pinned down, and under heavy fire. The other's in the vehicle wanted to go to that location and help. I reminded the team that our job was to protect the principal ( the contract employer ).
That decision did not go well at first, because we almost have a s
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And how much are you willing to pay? Because I don't know what you think a personal bodyguard costs, but it is likely more than you think.
Re: Business model (Score:1)
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Yeah I bet 90% of the responses to this app will be âoebrown person walking down street.â
And when these rent-a-cops try to detain said brown person for "questioning" hilarity will definitely ensue.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"Goons on demand"
"Thugs as a service"
"The Karen button"
To me, it's more like, "Now that we have defunded the police, this is what replaces them."
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To me, it's more like, "Now that we have defunded the police, this is what replaces them."
When did that happen? And how are they still killing people without funding? Are you saying cops don't kill for money; it's just for fun?
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More than ten years ago, my van was stolen out of a parking garage in SF. Called the cops, they said "you can come down to the station and file a report." They wouldn't come to the garage and look at the security tapes. Couple of days later, I get a notice that it was towed. The perps apparently drove it around for a while, filled it up with trash, and then walked away from it. SF wanted me to pay for the towing and the parking ticket.
Re:Business model (Score:4)
You really think cops not doing follow-up on stolen cars or burglary or other small crimes is a unique thing to SF or I assume you think it's "Democrat cities" but sorry to break it to you, that's many police departments nationwide. If we're just doing anecdotes I've personally had it twice in two towns and know at least a dozen who have similar stories.
Something I have heard from many defund/reform advocates is supporting an increaseof funding for detectives and other means to increase case close rates instead such of a focus on patrols and traffic cops. I mean for fucks sake the clearance rate on motor vehicle theft is 13.8%. Who actually expects the cops to find your car? You'd like them to but deep down you know they both can't and won't and you just need the report for your insurance.
https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
Re: Business model (Score:1)
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Arguments they actually can't are a bit undermined by the fact soldiers have stricter rules of engagement and can perform their job just fine even against armed insurgents
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Because
a) They wasted all the money on military gear instead of detectives
b) Many crimes like theft are basically unsolvable unless there is clear video of it happening
Yet crime rates are mostly down anyway.
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Or Dallas. Or Houston. Or San Antonio. Or Kansas City.
This was a trend 10+ years before "Defunding the police". Also you're an idiot with no grasp of the history on this issue.
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"Goons on demand" "Thugs as a service" "The Karen button"
To me, it's more like, "Now that we have defunded the police, this is what replaces them."
* grabs popcorn *
Yup. Sure as hell is. Go get 'em, Karen. I'm voting for you in the Darwin Awards. You've earned that shit like Leo DiCaprio.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Now that we have defunded the police, this is what replaces them."
My understanding of "defunding" is that it's primarily about things like military tech and equipment for 'hardened' interventions, and absolutely not about the funding for local police presence or for increased interventions, and cooperation, between the police and community based organizations.
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Exactly. This service is aimed at people who want the police to have military gear, because they know it won't be used against them.
This could be the next arms race. Tap here to unlock RPGs and an armoured personnel carrier for your squad. Don't let the other guy pay-to-win!
Re: Business model (Score:1)
Re:Business model (Score:5, Informative)
Right, systemic racism on steroids. Their customers are people who can afford the service and it's good business to pander to Karen's fear of dark skin.
The first name they came up with was Vigilante. They changed it when Apple rejected it from the app store.
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Right, systemic racism on steroids. Their customers are people who can afford the service and it's good business to pander to Karen's fear of dark skin.
Fear is a powerful selling tool.
The first name they came up with was Vigilante. They changed it when Apple rejected it from the app store.
I wonder if Apple gets their 30% cut. Seriously, I am somewhat surprised Apple would allow such an app, for the reasons you mentioned as well as being drawn into a lawsuit when things go south.
Re: Business model (Score:2)
I like how this is what you all want to talk about instead of how to reduce the number of American citizens killed by police... the actual problem.
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Come on now. Citizens as police worked really well in CHAZ/CHOP. I mean they did kill more civilians in one small neighborhood than the real cops did over the same period of time across the entire region of three states but we only care when it's government sanctioned agents doing the killing. So still a win, right?
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In other words, they've borrowed the same Uber idea from Westworld's last season.
That is step 1, step 2 is RoboCop... (Score:2)
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You mean step two is ED-209.
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No, no, ED-209 is step three.
"Profit" has been pushed to step four.
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Next time Karen calls the cops on someone doing $mundane_thing while black, instead of a cop they'll get someone with a bigger gun, an itchier trigger finger, less training, and more racism!
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Next time Karen calls the cops on someone doing $mundane_thing while black, instead of a cop they'll get someone with a bigger gun, an itchier trigger finger, less training, and more racism!
That's even possible?
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they'll get someone with a bigger gun, an itchier trigger finger, less training, and more racism
And that person and their company have no qualified immunity; plus they'll potentially be under greater scrutiny should anything happen --- given the increased liability; Probably mostly unarmed and have to deal with tighter restrictions... You think their company's liability insurance is going to let them have armed guards with little training?
Although... TBH their security workers will probably wind up inc
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Although... TBH their security workers will probably wind up including many Cops moonlighting and ex-Cops, etc; maybe they could even reduce their training costs that way.
I wonder how many real cops would want to take on such a job? They're still cops off duty, with all the restrictions and requirements; this job could thrust them into a position where they put their real job at risk depending on their actions. I doubt many jurisdictions would want them to be in uniform when responding. Plus, why put yourself in situations that could not only cost your job but potentially your life when your regular job already does that? Far better to do security at a jewelry store where
Re: Cowards with a gangs of hired thugs (Score:1)
Holy shit (Score:1)
This is cyberpunk AF, maybe NRA members will get in on this an they'll turn into a mercenary organization like in Jennifer Government.
Yeah this is totally William Gibson (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Snow Crash.
The Deliverator was a corporal in the Farms of Merryvale State Security Force for a while once. Got himself fired for pulling a sword on an acknowledged perp. Slid it right through the fabric of the perp's shirt, gliding the flat of the blade along the base of his neck, and pinned him to a warped and bubbled expanse of vinyl siding on the wall of the house that the perp was trying to break into. Thought it was a pretty righteous bust. But they fired him anyway because the perp turned out to be
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, with ambulance services being what they are today, we've already got DocWagon and Trauma Team, so yeah, you're right.
Well, that's confusing (Score:3)
This Will End Well (Score:2)
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You know who doesn't have qualified immunity?..
Nobody should have qualified immunity. I tap a bumper of another car with mine and get sued. A cop accidentally kills the wrong person and its "Oops sorry about that".
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Private security has a pretty bad reputation.
Poorly vetted staff, their only interest is what the customer wants, and a trumped up sense of authority. They regularly break the law by overstepping the bounds of what private citizens are allowed to do.
And that's just the UK where they aren't armed or in so much danger.
I see this as loss of faith in police (Score:2)
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Stranger in a Strange Land: Fair Witness
I live in the 16th most violent state (Score:3)
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I live in Texas. As of 2019 statistics, it is the ranked 16th in the US [msn.com] for # of violent crimes per 100k people. Alaska is number 1. California and New York don't even make the top ten.
In Texas, they'll kill you even if they think you did something wrong [cnn.com] but have no evidence.
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> In Texas, they'll kill you even if they think you did something wrong but have no evidence.
And that wasn't even the police.
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Actually the violent crime rate in California is bigger than the Texas one (2018 data)
You can see this even from the very same article you linked: Texas 16th, California 12th.
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Actually the violent crime rate in California is bigger than the Texas one (2018 data)
You can see this even from the very same article you linked: Texas 16th, California 12th.
"California and New York don't even make the top ten."
Tell me, oh contrarian Slashdotter, how is it going through life functionally illiterate?
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But, but, but, guns!
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Dangerous? WTF are you talking about? You live in fear, my little snowflake.
Great idea in some cities (Score:5, Insightful)
San Francisco police take forever to respond to a complaint or incident, if they respond at all. Having this option may be a very good idea, especially when it comes to disorderly conduct, fights, fireworks, and other incidents that the SFPD conveniently ignores. Since 2019 they tend to show up only there are major injuries or very large destruction of property. As a Citizen user, I support this idea.
Cheers,
pr3d
Re:Great idea in some cities (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem is an armed rent-a-cop turns up with a clear bias in favour of the customer. It's a recipe for disaster, for illegal behaviour, for harassment.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when non-customers call the real cops. Or how they handle the first murder by one of their staff.
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You are talking about security with a clearly defined employer and place of work, not gangs that can be called out to rough up some up-to-no-good hoodie-wearing black teenagers.
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Problem is an armed rent-a-cop turns up with a clear bias in favour of the customer. It's a recipe for disaster, for illegal behaviour, for harassment.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when non-customers call the real cops. Or how they handle the first murder by one of their staff.
I think this could turn out better for the general public than calling actual police to the scene. Armed rent-a-cops don't have qualified immunity and will have to actually stand trial for flagrant abuse or murder of unarmed people.
Imagine if police themselves were actually held accountable for their actions like that!
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Problem is an armed rent-a-cop turns up with a clear bias in favour of the customer. It's a recipe for disaster, for illegal behaviour, for harassment.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when non-customers call the real cops. Or how they handle the first murder by one of their staff.
I think this could turn out better for the general public than calling actual police to the scene. Armed rent-a-cops don't have qualified immunity and will have to actually stand trial for flagrant abuse or murder of unarmed people.
I'm not sure it will be better. I doubt they will train their staff to deal with the variety of situations they might face, instead will be sending someone predisposed to be the tough guy. That is a recipe for disaster since not only do they not have immunity but could very well wind up shot in self defense. Can yo imagine them intervening in a domestic dispute? The cops I know say that is the one of the most dangerous parts of their job because you never know how someone may react; can yo imagine a rent
Defund the American people (Score:1)
Otherwise they'll find some alternative way to fund their racist protecting of their property and themselves.
What could possibly go wrong? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not as if the some guy out jogging was run down and shot to death [cnn.com] because he was "in the wrong neighborhood". Imagine the possibilities of a bunch of wannabe cops being called to investigate "suspicious" behavior.
Re: (Score:2)
"Called my squad but suspicious guy is still alive, 1 star"
Re: What could possibly go wrong? (Score:2)
What's the evidence he was trying to rob anything?
Goons (Score:1, Troll)
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Back in the old days (Score:3)
So, anyone want to start a deadpool on this? (Score:2)
I'm betting three months from initial rollout to first rent-a-cop killing someone, six months to first high-profile murder. Would also like to do a side-bet: Within six months there'll be reports - substantiated or otherwise - of people using this like IRC script kiddies swatting each other.
Who’s to blame for false reports? (Score:2)
They have services like this in Johannesburg (Score:5, Insightful)
I distinctly remember seeing private security vehicles driving around notoriously dangerous South Africa, advertising "Real Help, Real Fast.", and that was 20 years ago.
This is what happens when the publicly (de)funded police become worthless; the private sector finds a way. So yes, make all the obvious jokes of mercenaries-as-a-service, etc. It's sad commentary that there is a market for this, and even worse that our cities appear headed the same way as JoBerg.
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I distinctly remember seeing private security vehicles driving around notoriously dangerous South Africa, advertising "Real Help, Real Fast.", and that was 20 years ago.
This is what happens when the publicly (de)funded police become worthless; the private sector finds a way. So yes, make all the obvious jokes of mercenaries-as-a-service, etc. It's sad commentary that there is a market for this, and even worse that our cities appear headed the same way as JoBerg.
Rich people are protected. The middle class and the poor deal with anarchy. The murder rate is currently way up in Democrat-controlled cities that have attacked the police. For the most part, it's not wealthy white liberals paying the price for their ideas.
Oh great. (Score:2)
They've gone from citizen to illeg.. uh, undocumented.
it's all fun and games (Score:1)