Google To Launch Censored Search In China Despite Denials (thenextweb.com) 116
Google intends to launch a censored version of its Search app for China sometime in the next six to nine months, according to a leaked transcript from a private employee meeting held last month. The Intercept's Ryan Gallagher today reported the company's Search engine chief, Ben Gomes, held a meeting to congratulate a room full of employees working on the platform, dubbed Project Dragonfly. From a report: According to The Intercept, Gomes talked about the launch timeline: "While we are saying it's going to be six and nine months [to launch], the world is a very dynamic place." He goes on to point out that the current political climate makes it difficult to pinpoint a definite timeline, but indicates employees should be ready to launch whenever a "window opens." These comments come in stark contrast to public statements given recently by both Gomes and Google's chief privacy officer, Kieth Enright.
Speaking to members of Congress last month, Enright tried to skirt the issue of the Dragonfly project by playing dumb. According to Wired he didn't quite deny involvement, and in fact admitted the company had explored the idea, but simply stated Google wasn't "close to launching" the censored Search engine and that he was "not clear on the contours of what is in scope or out of scope for that project." Gomes took the soft-denial a step further when he told the BBC "Right now all we've done is some exploration, but since we don't have any plans to launch something there's nothing much I can say about it."
Speaking to members of Congress last month, Enright tried to skirt the issue of the Dragonfly project by playing dumb. According to Wired he didn't quite deny involvement, and in fact admitted the company had explored the idea, but simply stated Google wasn't "close to launching" the censored Search engine and that he was "not clear on the contours of what is in scope or out of scope for that project." Gomes took the soft-denial a step further when he told the BBC "Right now all we've done is some exploration, but since we don't have any plans to launch something there's nothing much I can say about it."
Question for Chinese (Score:5, Interesting)
Does anyone in China actually care about Google search? The topic is a hot potato in the US for a number of reasons, but the fact is that search isn't that hard and there are already search engines available in China. It isn't as if Chinese internet users are lost among the myriad domains for lack of Google search...
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Does anyone in China actually care about Google search? The topic is a hot potato in the US for a number of reasons, but the fact is that search isn't that hard and there are already search engines available in China. It isn't as if Chinese internet users are lost among the myriad domains for lack of Google search...
Helwo, wound eye. The google want us to see the ads - that is all.
-- Chicken Ball
Re:Question for Chinese (Score:5, Informative)
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Reason people care is it shows google has the coding needed to selectively censor speech they claimed they weren't doing. Well they lied about it and they could and probably already censor results you see to fit the views they want. Everyone has their panties in a bunch (all the left) about Russia's interference but reality is companies like Facebook and google have done far more then Russia could ever hope to image in interfering in US election's.
When you are an American, swaying the votes of others via your Freedom of Speech is participating in the American election.
When you are a Russian, swaying the votes of anybody by any means is interfering in the American election.
You do understand the difference right?
Or at least understand why allowing foreign nationals to influence/interfere in our elections might be a very bad idea?
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You do understand the difference right?
Reading between the lines of his post, he probably identifies as a conservative, so no he doesn't understand.
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How can voters choose responsibly when they're they're inundated with misinfo, disinfo, and outright lies?
Re: Question for Chinese (Score:2)
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Reason people care is it shows google has the coding needed to selectively censor speech they claimed they weren't doing.
Um, they have been quite proud of that capability and open about how they use it since the start.
The search engine is the best because it filters out the crap. They filter out illegal images from image search. Gmail filters spam. YouTube filters everything randomly with an extremely broken copyright detection system.
"Censoring" shit people don't want is their USP. Without that they would be Yahoo! or Alta Vista. Remember those?
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I don't think most Chinese will care. This would mostly be a boon for all the tourists and non-Chinese-speaking expats who cannot currently easily access Google search, Google Maps, Google Transit, etc. For this reason, I hope they do it.
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Exactly. I'd say the vast majority of Chinese people wouldn't care at all. I doubt many would know or care at all, tbh, since Google has lost in China, for Chinese people anyway...they're very happy with the services they get that cater directly to Chinese people.
The only difference it might make is to 'westerners' who currently use Google services and can't while they are there, and that only depends on this appeasing the authorities there to not mess with Google's IP addresses or whatever it is that is do
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It's not about search, it's about Android. Android is huge in China, but they can't use any Google apps/services because they are all blocked. If Google just relents and provides a censored search engine then they can get their apps on to Chinese phones and partner with OEMs who are already shipping their customized versions of AOSP.
It's disappointing, but Microsoft (Bing) and Apple have been doing it for years so I guess it's unprecedented.
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That market is long gone. Tencent effectively owns android in China with WeChat.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hey, Google (Score:4, Insightful)
There's only 1 thing on their mind, even though they have plenty of it anyway: more $$$
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They're a public company, it is expected they produce the maximum returns for their shareholders and shareholders are stupid enough to believe the maximum return is caused by expanding forever rather then having principles.
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Be interesting to know how much Apple and Microsoft make out of the Chinese market. iPhones are quite popular, but I have no idea about Bing.
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Maybe rethink?
Unless, of course, their thinking is that this will help them support the "What?!?! Liberal bias?!?! Not us. Nope. Just look at how we are willing to jump into bed with the Chinese government."
Obama would have done nothing (Score:2)
Obama would analyze the situation from 100 different angles. Focus on forming a consensus. And have a dozen sophisticated reasons for saying nothing.
Pence and Trump just say the first thing that enters their small minds.
Sometimes, I prefer Pence and Trump.
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He's a closeted little weirdo who calls his wife Mother
Wow, that really is weird. I mean I assumed he's gay because he's so obsessed with dude-on-dude action, but calling his wife mother?
That's just pervy.
Re: Hey, Google (Score:2)
You know there's a whole culture of people who call their wives "mother". As in "mother of our children". Like millions of people. Typically very very boring small town people. The kind of people who wouldn't know how to get pervy if they tried.
Check your privilege and get out of your little bubble.
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Liberals who's only experience with kids is taking their underage girlfriends to Planned Parenthood aren't familiar with cultural norms of two parent families. So Pence does seem "weird" to them.
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Nearly all the weirdo talking points in one post. You forgot to blame Al Gore for something though.
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Making hay while the sun shines (Score:2)
You can see why Google is doing this now. Now that the US has its own authoritarian regime that doesn't care too much for human rights, it's easier to collaborate with China's government than ever before, and it likely won't be this easy ever again.
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Fun part being that this "authoritarian regime" is repatriating powers to regional actors, and "not caring about human rights" while doing a whole lot less assassinating of its citizenry people abroad. All while being in open opposition to China, making any co-operation potentially trigger sanctions.
Do you even realise you're spouting Ministry of Truth level material here?
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He doesn't realize that the "authoritarian" government he hates (at the moment) is exactly the same as the one he loved just a couple years ago. He is a fan of authoritarian governments, as long as it is his guy, and not the other guy that will be gone in 2 or 6 years from now.
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This is such a terrible idea that even Mike Pence is telling you not to do it. MIKE FUCKING PENCE thinks it's likely to undermine human rights.
Hey, human! Listening to what Mike Pence says as if he believed it is a terrible fucking idea. Remember when he said that a President who besmirches the office should be removed from same office, something which he clearly never actually believed? Pence is a liar. Don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
It will be a failure (Score:2)
The Chinese know that their searches are censored and they got used to it. Google has no hope of being popular in that country unless it is not censored. It simply cannot differentiate itself from the myriads of established search engines there.
My guess is that it won't be launched as Google, it'll be an engine behind another name to test the waters and to avoid humiliation that would certainly happen when we all find out that the name Google means nothing in China if it is still censored like all others.
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Goolag?
Better to be a player than to not play at all... (Score:2, Insightful)
You would think that having a search engine created for China, by a United States company, would be something googlers would be behind. You can not affect change in a place where you have no market penetration. Boycotting the Chinese market of over a billion people, is really just turning your back on them.
--
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?! - Pink Floyd
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Because it is much more likely that China will change Google than Google will change China.
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Going into China increases their liability surface area. If they were really trying to undermine China's govt. they'd have done so years ago. This all about making money from Chinese internet users.
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Falsely assuming that the Chinese government is going to change for Google...
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Hint - (They want to make lots of money in China.)
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Once a foreign company has gotten permission to operate in China and has invested there, the ruling Communist Party can use that as leverage to influence that company's operations everywhere.
Nudge, wink, or else.
As the Communist Party feels increasingly powerful and finds these methods are working (as they have been) they will only become more brazen.
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Last time they did it to google, they left China. I would suspect that both parties learned something from that experience.
Billions of people (Score:2)
What US ad company would not want to go full Communist?
Just find US staff who are ready to totally remove terms like
Emperor, Two term limit, 1984, Disagree, a bear cartoon.
Personality cult, emperor’s dream, emperor’s reign, incapable ruler, yellow gown. Long live the emperor.
Tiananmen Square. Operation Yellowbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Years of hard work at a top US university only to work all day at an ad company to please a Communist party and
How do I buy Duck Duck Go shares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Once Google starts up in China, it is only a matter of time before someone accuses Google of censoring US search results to please China. It will be very hard to defend against such claims, especially as China will want something in return for allowing Google in.
Google will never become more than a niche player in China, they will simply not allow it.
Bing is already there.
I bet they are sipping Champagne at Duck Duck Go. Finally, a solid reason to exist.
The 'Good Censorship' document from Google (Score:5, Informative)
Once Google starts up in China, it is only a matter of time before someone accuses Google of censoring US search results to please China
Google doesn't need to go to China to practice CENSORSHIP ON AMERICANS
https://www.scribd.com/documen... [scribd.com]
Above is a leaked document from Google, with the title of "Good Censorship'.
It outlines what Google is ALREADY DOING, that is, Google is already playing their so-called 'Good Censorship' on all of us !!
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Above is a leaked document from Google, with the title of "Good Censorship'.
It outlines what Google is ALREADY DOING, that is, Google is already playing their so-called 'Good Censorship' on all of us !!
So is Slashdot. When I submitted [slashdot.org] this story, it was gone from the stories you can vote on within an hour.
Re:How do I buy Duck Duck Go shares? (Score:5, Interesting)
Once Google starts up in China, it is only a matter of time before someone accuses Google of censoring US search results to please China. It will be very hard to defend against such claims, especially as China will want something in return for allowing Google in.
Search results for Chinese roamers in the US are already censored. I doubt the Chinese care about the viewing habits of Americans. The Chinese only want two things from Google: block access to forbidden things for Chinese and rat out Chinese who are against the party.
Google will never become more than a niche player in China, they will simply not allow it.
Bing is already there.
I bet they are sipping Champagne at Duck Duck Go. Finally, a solid reason to exist.
Bing is nothing. Google is nothing. Baidu has a dominant share, and all non-Chinese search engines are bit players in China. The curious question is why the party is playing with Google at all. They will never allow Google to be a significant player in China, so why even talk to Google? Perhaps the appearance of subjugating a supposedly high-minded and powerful Western company? Perhaps the acquisition of technology that is de facto required of Western companies doing business in China?
Why Google (Score:1)
Perhaps because they want to have influence over Google, by being able to throw them out.
Xi has ambitions beyond China.
Not sure what you mean by "Chinese roamers".
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Not sure what you mean by "Chinese roamers".
Chinese folks with Chinese SIM cards that roam outside of China.
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Where did you get the idea that they were censored anyway. Maybe by using Chinese phones, but not the SIM card. The Smart and the Phone are quite distinct remember. All the SIM sees is encoded packets.
Because SIM cards act as credentials, they allow access to networks. That's why US SIM cards bypass the firewall in China and why Chinese SIM cards outside of China still censor access. The actual phone don't control access, the SIM cards do.
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Google is already huge in China thanks to Android. Most Chinese phones run Android, just with the Google services removed.
That's why they want in. Search is just so that Google Assistant and other services that rely on it work. And they have an opportunity - Tencent have the speech recognition tech but not the search capability to make it intelligent, Siri is even dumber than the western versions, and Baidu have basically nothing.
I've used Baidu maps, it's no Google. The potential is huge, but they have to
Google Is A Clear and Present Danger To All (Score:1)
It is no longer a maybe.
Google thinks the goal is gaining access to China but the real goal is the Chinese are using Google to gain access to the rest of the world.
The US would do the same (Score:1)
Non-Denial (Score:2)
Translation: "Today we have no ultra-concrete plans, only very-firm plans. Once the scrutiny dies down, we will establish an exact plan."
Read between the lines.
Its a good thing. (Score:1)
market risks huge shareholders will punish them (Score:2)
ok so you launch a search engine in china and due to regulation you must operate within china (your Data Centre can not be yours) and you must "partner" for payments
so you think google is going to code a search engine from scratch or take some of the existing code over ?
do you think that it wont be "audited" ?
google IP (how its search engine works) is now going to be in the hands of "non google" I would say shareholders should be very worried
they would have been better to partner with a advertising firm in
Hilarious (Score:2)
Folks freaking out about a censored search engine in China.
While not OBVIOUSLY censored here in the US, the search results can be manipulated to drive folks to certain sites over others which can then be used to modify public opinion on any given topic.
Google et al can do this without most even realizing it, whereas the mainstream media doesn't even try to be sneaky about it at all. You KNOW if you're watching a Fox affiliate it's going to be nothing but Republican love whereas any CNN broadcast is going t
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How dare they support government censorship (Score:2)
How dare Google support government censorship like that ! [wp.com]
Who would have thought?! (Score:2)
The same people who think it's okay to censor the opinions of US citizens... thinks it's okay to censor the opinions of Chinese dissenters. ...SURPRISED?
That awkward moment when your ideology is literally the same one they use in China to crush journalists.
An unpopular idea deserve consideration (Score:2)
Google suppresses sites known to host malware, child pornography, and probably lots of other stuff. This is good in my opinion.
The question is where do you draw the line? As an American, I don't feel I have the right to tell the Chinese, where they should draw their line. I would offer advice if asked, but nobody is asking me and its not any of my business.
If Google wants to expand its operations abroad, it
Google (Score:1)
Still likes cash, despite denials. News at ten!
Bad sign for investors (Score:2)
This "we'll do it no matter what" attitude probably means they know the ads business is running on fumes and won't grow anymore in the future. A significant fraction of their market cap is dependent on continued growth, and cloud is not growing anywhere near quickly enough, so like a heroin junkie they need another hit of ad revenue even if they have to proverbially fellate the Chinese communist party officials the in a dirty bathroom stall. It's not really about search. It's about search ads.
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