HUD Files Complaint Alleging Facebook Ad Tools Allow Housing Discrimination (gizmodo.com) 102
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Gizmodo: The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development has filed an official discrimination complaint against Facebook, saying the site's dizzying array of advertising tools makes it simple for advertisers to illegally exclude wide swathes of the population from seeing housing ads, Politico wrote on Friday. In a press release, HUD wrote that Facebook's "targeted advertising" model more or less constitutes a way for said advertisers to skirt the federal Fair Housing Act, specifically by excluding members of protected categories: "HUD claims Facebook enables advertisers to control which users receive housing-related ads based upon the recipient's race, color, religion, sex, familial status, national origin, disability, and/or zip code. Facebook then invites advertisers to express unlawful preferences by offering discriminatory options, allowing them to effectively limit housing options for these protected classes under the guise of 'targeted advertising.'"
Specific examples cited by HUD included showing display ads "either only to men or women," as well as preventing users flagged as interested in disabilities-related topics like "assistance dog" or "accessibility" from seeing display ads. HUD also said that the targeted advertising tool can be used to prevent people interested in specific religions or regions from seeing ads, as well as "draw a red line around zip codes and then not display ads to Facebook users who live in specific zip codes." The complaint is just a complaint, but it does start an official process that will either end in Facebook reaching a resolution with federal officials or a lawsuit. CNN Tech notes that the National Fair Housing Alliance is simultaneously suing Facebook for the same reason. "Facebook is trying to dismiss the suit by claiming it has limited liability for user-generated content, though HUD and federal prosecutors claim the site operates as an internet content provider with respect to housing ads and therefore is subject to civil rights law," reports Gizmodo.
Specific examples cited by HUD included showing display ads "either only to men or women," as well as preventing users flagged as interested in disabilities-related topics like "assistance dog" or "accessibility" from seeing display ads. HUD also said that the targeted advertising tool can be used to prevent people interested in specific religions or regions from seeing ads, as well as "draw a red line around zip codes and then not display ads to Facebook users who live in specific zip codes." The complaint is just a complaint, but it does start an official process that will either end in Facebook reaching a resolution with federal officials or a lawsuit. CNN Tech notes that the National Fair Housing Alliance is simultaneously suing Facebook for the same reason. "Facebook is trying to dismiss the suit by claiming it has limited liability for user-generated content, though HUD and federal prosecutors claim the site operates as an internet content provider with respect to housing ads and therefore is subject to civil rights law," reports Gizmodo.
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It's people like you who give the Democrats such a bad name.
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Well, at least Trump did not (yet?) start any of the many wars Hillary had promised. That's a big plus in my book.
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Um, HUD *IS* part of the Trump Administration.
Re:Trump will probably stamp this out (Score:5, Insightful)
When your TDS goes so far that even when they(Trump various offices where he's appointed people) do the right thing, your mind conjures up something in order to reinforce that social and political viewpoint so you can feel smug.
What a fucking shitty way to live.
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This is why house ads show up in the local newspaper... something everyone should have access to.
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Newspaper readers have a highly skewed demographic.
Re: Not just FB (Score:2, Insightful)
False equivalence: you can buy a high end magazine if you're a lower class person. On fpthe internet, once you've been profiled, you can't get out ofthe bubble crafted for you by others.
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You can set a private profile and browse from somewhere besides your home I.P.
It gives you a very different view of the world.
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Sure you can: you can turn off targeted advertising, or you can give false demographic information.
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Read the whole sentence: or you can give false demographic information. If you want to see what kinds of ads are targeted to transgender Asian midget billionaires, just enter that as your demographic information.
What "various regulations"
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Newspaper readers have a highly skewed demographic.
Perhaps for subscriptions. But a person actively searching for an apartment, a house, a job, etc may make an anonymous purchase of a paper at vending machine, newsstand, grocery store, convenience store, etc.
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And likewise, you can make a free Facebook account with any demographic information you like.
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Facebook forbids fake accounts. They will delete them.
It only needs to last long enough to get the home, the job, etc.
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Doesn't matter, the point is that the suggestion is already forbidden.
And discrimination in advertising homes, jobs, etc is also forbidden. Yet it happens, similar story for the countermeasure.
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You can put in any demographic information you like, but does FB follow it.
For example, your IP address is from a 'poor' neighborhood.
Or, you don't have friends with any other high class FB users.
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How is that a racial discrimination issue? Are you saying that I'm not allowed to advertise expensive products to rich people and cheap products to poor people anymore?
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Facebook is hitting the wall when it comes to growth... the hot new app appears to be called "Delete your account!"
Re:Not just FB (Score:5, Insightful)
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Infowar's pages were removed for repeatedly inciting violence with race war and deep state civil war conspiracy theories, and for trying to dehumanize transgender people.
You are right, other people did the same thing, but Facebook moderation reacts to reports rather than actively seeking out ToS violations. So naturally the pages at the centre of it all, the ones were there stories and memes being shared originate from, are the ones getting the most reports.
FB doesn't want to be the town square. It wants to
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If human rights are a "left" issue then yes, I'm far left. I fully support human rights, including for trans people.
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I hope it occurs at some point to both your buddies in the Antifa crowd and the far-right KKK types that you can't have free speech coexist with bullshit-right-to-not-be-offended. If hurling a pejorative or label at som
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So just to be clear, are you complaining about considering mis-gendering a trans person to be a form of abuse?
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Yes, in the sense that you cannot state discriminatory terms in your ad.
I am aware of no precedent for this claim, nor does the law say that. So where does your belief that this is the law come from?
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Did you think HUD didn't think this through?
The head of HUD almost certainly didn't think this through; he was probably too busy shopping for dining room furniture. However, there are probably a quite a few lower-level people hanging on there who still have some shred of integrity.
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The act makes it illegal to state a preference for or against a protected class. It does not make targeted advertising illegal as far as I can tell.
You claimed that "For example you cannot distribute advertising pamphlets for housing only to white people." I'm asking you where in the law that is based and whether it has ever been enforced. I mean, there are regulations like that, for ex
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This has been tried against newspaper publishers, and upheld.
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Well, then you should have no trouble citing a case, because I can't find any.
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United States v. Joyce, 2008
United States v. Penny Pincher, Inc., 2011
A related suit [apnews.com], claiming that using predominantly white-skinned models in advertisements constituted discrimination by presenting the appearance that the market was assumed to be predominantly white... And it seems to have been dismissed [justia.com], apparently on technical grounds, like standing and such.
By the late 80s it was well known, to landlords at least, that trying to advertise with illegal restrictions would not be tolerated by mainstream n
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You're just giving examples of what isn't in dispute, namely that the Fair Housing Act makes it illegal to state a preference against a protected. A violation can be determined simply by reading the ad.
Targeting is a completely different activity from putting discriminatory language into an ad. That is, with targeting, the ad contains no discriminatory language, it simply doesn't reach certain demographics. Nothing in the Fair Housing Act, nor any case law that I can find or that you cite, seems to prohibit
Re:What is the problem? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you can't see the Facebook ad, how do you know the house is for sale? A discriminator can advertise only on Facebook, and then set the blocks against whoever, and assure the sale isn't an equal opportunity.
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chump change (Score:2)
Government is responsible for the 2nd goal, because people's individual desires tend to compete with societal desires. And frankly, government is failing in its job / losing ground in the fight for its purpose in this technology age. Either because our state / federal governme
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The government is there to do what ever the people want it to do. Your lie is a lie, you are just claiming the government is there to do, only what YOU want it to do. Sorry, it is meant to be a representative government, not an elected monarchy, a government of representatives of the people, not the corporate bullshit idea of a government of leaders. The electorate are the leaders and the government is meant to follow them and represent them in the political offices they hold. Want minimal government, nothi
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No, I'm claiming what is fact: that the US government is a government of limited, enumerated powers. That is the kind of government that people agreed to under the articles of confederation.
Not the US government. The US government is explicitly one of enumerated, limited powers. In most areas, it is constitutionally constrained not to do what th
Sure is hard to write a app these days... (Score:2)
Contest sites have to be careful who they hand a million dollars to...
Gun sites need to follow 51 sets of laws (federal plus 50 states)...
Radio streams have to obey local rules on products and prices....
Google has to target people who will buy the product, they can't just randomly send ads around...
Facebook has to follow regulations on ads too... sorry, no exemptions to the laws about what you could advertise in the newspaper.
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And some people wonder why others just skirt around the regulations and do shit on the side, away from the oversight of Big Brother.
As the Laffer Curve applies to taxation, there is a similar curve that applies to regulation in general. Over-regulate, and people will just avoid the system entirely.
It's a stupid complaint (Score:1)
Yes, this tool could be used to discriminate. But that's the point of the tool. If you are selling women's jeans it's perfectly legal to target a particular audience, i.e. women. Do they have any example of using this tool to illegally discriminate against a protected class? If so, file a lawsuit. Otherwise, stop speculating about what it could be used for.
Re:It's a stupid complaint (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.engadget.com/2017/... [engadget.com]
Secondly, there are quite a few examples, such as:
https://consequenceofsound.net... [consequenceofsound.net]
All this is just the stuff on the surface, where advertisers are abusing Facebook's targeting system. One abstraction layer further you get the Cambridge Analytica stuff. Databrokers taking your Facebook data, and then selling all kinds of derived scores to employers, insurers politicians.
Women don't see high paying job adds:
https://www.theguardian.com/te... [theguardian.com]
Getting red-lighted at job interviews:
https://www.theguardian.com/sc... [theguardian.com]
Easier to get a loan if you have 'good' friends:
https://trustingsocial.com/ [trustingsocial.com]
IRS looking at social media posts to determine who gets an audit:
https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Health insurers figuring out who they want to insure:
https://www.propublica.org/art... [propublica.org]
As Cathy o Neill pointed out in her book "Weapons of Math Destruction", all this tech doesn't remove discrimination, it just hides it behind the facade of 'neutral math'.
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20 GOTO 10
My favorite word to explore in what documentation I come across is "granularity". I had not seen it used since a kid reading about the surface of the sun. Applying relational databases has been overshadowed by networks modeled on neural connectivity, but the latter serves the former. These advances are largely legitimate, but the Valley's greatest minds can't stop social hacking in the name of disruptive commerce and a rentier class has the resources to beg their for
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HUD is suing Facebook, not for actually discriminating, but for having tools that allow other people to discriminate. If Facebook was making the ad targeting decisions, you might have a point... *maybe*.
This is like suing Intel and Microsoft because of Napster music piracy. It *should* be laughed out of court, But this is the era of ignorance and feelz in law, so God knows what will happen.
I agree with the AC. I bear no love for Facebook, and I understand the importance of rules against housing discrimination. What I do not understand is why HUD is filing a complaint against Facebook. Facebook is not posting the ads.
What HUD ought to be doing is asking FB for a list of any instances where real entities posted illegal ads. Facebook has that data. Then HUD would have a list of entities to investigate for illegal activity. They may even be able to get FB to send them such lists periodically.
Does
opt out of targeting (Score:1)
Note that Facebook lets you opt out of targeting and nobody forces you to give correct demographic information. So, if you want to receive ads targeted to geriatric transgender Asian billionaire midgets, set up your profile accordingly and enjoy!
*sigh* NTSA (Score:2)
pointless arguments to hurt the consumer (Score:2)
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Someone please forward you the ghost of Ferdinand Porsche post haste; You have a world to conquer.
Stuff? Are you a senator's son?
This has been going on for many years with mail (Score:2)
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It is called redlining [wikipedia.org] and a simultaneously and sufficiently blunt means to result in what I "personally" would characterize as a form of genocide of the Black American male and a banal evil. A "best" deal includes extractive economies and ghettoization. Prior to that-- hangings.
But to move on, comparing zip codes and credit bureaus (who have of late been rendered meaningless by data breaches so serious the government has only wrung its hands and waits for public attention
Problematic Assumptions (Score:2)
If I'm interested in seeing eye dogs, I might not necessarily be blind.
I could be a dog trainer, or an animal lover interested in the topic. I know a lot of people like this.
Being interested in Islam or Buddhism doesn't necessarily make me either thing, and liking rap music doesn't really say anything about my ethnicity. Although, they might have a point on the zip codes.
Time will tell.