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Crime Communications Media Network The Internet Technology

Blogger Stabbed To Death After Internet Abuse Seminar (theguardian.com) 449

A prominent Japanese blogger has been stabbed to death minutes after giving a seminar on how to resolve personal disputes on the internet. The Guardian reports: Media reports said Kenichiro Okamoto, better known by his blogger name Hagex, died on Sunday evening after reportedly being attacked by a man he had argued with online. The suspect, Hidemitsu Matsumoto, allegedly followed Okamoto into the toilets after he had ended his talk at a venue in the south-western city of Fukuoka.

Okamoto was stabbed several times before staggering out of the toilets after his assailant, who fled on a bicycle, according to the Mainichi Shimbun newspaper. Okamoto, who sustained stab wounds to the chest and neck, was taken to hospital where he was confirmed dead. His attacker reportedly handed himself in almost three hours after the attack.

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Blogger Stabbed To Death After Internet Abuse Seminar

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  • Or maybe some cutting-edge research on how to improve his product was the problem?

  • by grep -v '.*' * ( 780312 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @06:23AM (#56852380)

    stabbed to death minutes after giving a seminar on how to resolve personal disputes on the internet.

    Not to be snarky here, but my first thought after reading this was "So I guess that's exactly NOT what you should do, huh?" (Sorry to be morbid.)

    At least the guy turned himself in soon afterwards. But he bothered the guy online, even kept making new IDs to hassle the guy after the previous one was disabled.

    What the hell is wrong with people? "Someone's wrong on the internet / in life and it's my duty / job / addiction to permanently correct them? Get over yourself and come up with a better argument. Make them come over to your side instead. Hell, maybe you'll even learn something yourself.

    Winston Churchill: A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

    • by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @06:30AM (#56852400)

      Could just be a twist on the classic stalker, who thinks he didn't get the attention he deserved from his target. Less about the concrete difference of opinions, but the fact that he thought he deserved replies.

    • What is wrong with people?

      They don't have meaningful goals driving their life decisions, combined with too much free time (that isn't being used towards meaningful goals).

      Rather than invest in relationships with family and friends, they decide to hate.

      Rather than try to make the world a better place by volunteering or something similar, they decide to hate.

      Rather than work on a hobby or project (learn instruments, write stories, even just play games), they decide to hate.

      Rather than worry about their own pr

      • When enough people get together to hate they can be globally influential.

    • stabbed to death minutes after giving a seminar on how to resolve personal disputes on the internet.

      Not to be snarky here, but my first thought after reading this was "So I guess that's exactly NOT what you should do, huh?" (Sorry to be morbid.) At least the guy turned himself in soon afterwards. But he bothered the guy online, even kept making new IDs to hassle the guy after the previous one was disabled. What the hell is wrong with people? "Someone's wrong on the internet / in life and it's my duty / job / addiction to permanently correct them? Get over yourself and come up with a better argument. Make them come over to your side instead. Hell, maybe you'll even learn something yourself. Winston Churchill: A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

      I know, right?

      They need to look at our progressive American way of doing things instead: throw people out of your restaurant, get them fired, and gather in mobs outside their house.

      • by Green Mountain Bot ( 4981769 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @10:36AM (#56853518)
        Freedom to be an asshole doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of being an asshole.
        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          Believing that someone is an asshole gets you nothing. You have no right to harass someone, even someone you think is an asshole.

      • by jeff4747 ( 256583 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @11:50AM (#56853916)

        They need to look at our progressive American way of doing things instead: throw people out of your restaurant, get them fired, and gather in mobs outside their house.

        Or the conservative American way of doing things, throw people out of your bakery or restaurant, get them fired, gather in mobs outside their house, shoot them at church, firebomb their business....

        • Or the conservative American way of doing things, throw people out of your bakery or restaurant, get them fired, gather in mobs outside their house, shoot them at church, firebomb their business....

          You forgot enslave them for 246 years; drag them behind first horses, then wagons, and finally pick-em-up trucks; burn crosses on their lawns and burn their churches for good measure; hang them by the neck for any crime at all, including imagined ones; massacre natives, and students, and veterans, and asians, and brown people... To be fair, I suppose we could just go on forever.

    • What the hell is wrong with people?

      Knives.

    • by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @09:12AM (#56852982)

      What the hell is wrong with people? "Someone's wrong on the internet / in life and it's my duty / job / addiction to permanently correct them? Get over yourself and come up with a better argument. Make them come over to your side instead. Hell, maybe you'll even learn something yourself.

      Scott Adams has theorized that you simply can't reason with any human being and get them to change their mind on anything because all decisions are made on emotions, not facts. While I don't agree with him and have a differing theory, I can't at this time disprove his theory.

      I have a different theory that I'm not sure I want to fully go into here, but I'll summarize. I suspect that about 10% of the population sees everything in black and white terms. According to my theory, you simply can't reason with such people because they don't see anything in terms of gray and even worse, they don't understand that the way they see the world isn't how the vast majority of humans see it. So when you try to reason with them on anything they have a different opinion on, they think you are crazy because they think you have access to the exact same information they do and see the universe in the exact same way they do so thus you are stubbornly refusing to go along with reality by having a different point of view. They are truly incapable of understanding a different point of view on a subject.

      It could also simply be that the killer is mentally ill and none of the above applies. And in reply to another comment elsewhere, all I can say is killing someone you disagree with and then turning yourself in to the police and is a very Asian and in particular a very Japanese thing to do.

      • You might find the concept of the Philosophical Zombie [wikipedia.org] interesting, if you're not already aware of it.

        Robert J. Sawyer has an excellent piece of fiction exploring the idea called Quantum Night.

      • I have a different theory that I'm not sure I want to fully go into here, but I'll summarize. I suspect that about 10% of the population sees everything in black and white terms.

        In a more or less recent conversation here about bad cops, someone brought up a possibly apocryphal but plausible-sounding anecdote about a cop suggesting that there's about 15% good cops, 15% bad cops, and the rest are followers who will just go along with whatever is happening. We could argue about the percentages (both in policing, and the general population) but I think a similar effect is at work in simply thinking. About 15% of people think, about 15% of people refuse to think, and the rest just go along with whatever is happening around them. If the people around them are thinking, they will give it a go. If the people around them aren't, they won't.

    • by TWX ( 665546 )

      stabbed to death minutes after giving a seminar on how to resolve personal disputes on the internet.

      Not to be snarky here, but my first thought after reading this was "So I guess that's exactly NOT what you should do, huh?" (Sorry to be morbid.)

      At least the guy turned himself in soon afterwards. But he bothered the guy online, even kept making new IDs to hassle the guy after the previous one was disabled.

      What the hell is wrong with people? "Someone's wrong on the internet / in life and it's my duty / job / addiction to permanently correct them? Get over yourself and come up with a better argument. Make them come over to your side instead.
      Hell, maybe you'll even learn something yourself.

      Winston Churchill: A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

      I hope that the attendees of the lecture got their money back, as clearly the presenter's technique doesn't work.

    • Some people want to be incorrect, but they still believe they're right. These people have emotional baggage that it's not your job or competency to fix and your time and attention can do far more good with the other seven billion people.

    • Not to be snarky here, but my first thought after reading this was "So I guess that's exactly NOT what you should do, huh?"

      It's like the George Costanza method of dispute resolution.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        then what the hell is wrong with blocking?

        If people sincerely believe things you think are dangerous or evil (as opposed to actual trolling: pretending such beliefs to get a rise out of you), perhaps you have a moral duty to attempt to convince them otherwise.

        Words and violence are our only choices for dispute resolution. I prefer words.

  • by CrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @06:24AM (#56852384)

    Seems to me that he either didn't practice what he lectured on, or his lecture probably wasn't worth attending....

    That said, I have to wonder what drove his attacker to (a) kill him, then (b) turn himself in within a few hours (but not immediately)....

    • by The Cynical Critic ( 1294574 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @06:44AM (#56852440)
      My understanding is that the Japanese consider the risk of being caught of a crime to be pretty high, which it AFAIK is as their police isn't as overburdened as police is in many parts of the world, and you do get an unusually large amount of leniency if you do it. If you know you're almost definitely going to get caught, it's probably not worth it trying to run or cover your tracks.
      • My understanding is that the Japanese consider the risk of being caught of a crime to be pretty high, which it AFAIK is as their police isn't as overburdened as police is in many parts of the world, and you do get an unusually large amount of leniency if you do it. If you know you're almost definitely going to get caught, it's probably not worth it trying to run or cover your tracks.

        That I understand. What I don't understand is the three hour delay. If you assume you're going to be caught quickly, why not

        • It might be a bit spur of the moment kind of attack (on the other hand, he got whatever he used to stab with from somewhere) and he had things he wanted to handle before going to prison.

        • That I understand. What I don't understand is the three hour delay. If you assume you're going to be caught quickly, why not just stab the crap out of whomever, then just stand there waiting for the police to show up?

          Hookers and coke.

          If I was an internet troll, and probably still a virgin, that's what I would do if I knew I was going to spend the next 10+ years in prison.

        • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

          You seem to be of the impression that killing a human being (or any animal) for the first time was somehow easy.

          Have you ever had a near-hit? Or an actual accident? There is such a thing called shock.

          Circumstances make me believe that this was premeditated, however planning to do something and even really wanting to do it is something entirely different than standing before the result.

        • From a purely rational point of view (which is not what I would expect from the assailant) there is an advantage to cleaning up, calling a lawyer, and walking into the police station with the lawyer to turn yourself in. You will receive better treatment and reduce the risk that you will be injured during your arrest, and mugshot photos of you covered in gore are never helpful in either your trial or sentencing.
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Not so much leniency as avoiding a life sentence or the death penalty.

        We don't know the details but maybe he didn't even intend to kill the guy. He ran off before he was dead. Maybe once he realized he was facing murder charges and dying in jail he decided to hand himself in and hope for 10-15 years for cooperation and good behaviour.

    • Yeah, because if a person who doesn't take on information from his murder victim's lecture, it's because the lecture wasn't worth listening, or because his victim didn't do a good enough job conveying his argument...

      • by fazig ( 2909523 )
        The phrasing in the article is a set-up for jokes about the irony in it. It was the first thing that came to my mind as well when reading the first sentence and after looking into the comment section I wasn't surprised to find several other people who apparently thought the same.
        It's not the fault of GP if morons mod it (up) as anything other but 'funny' or maybe 'underrated'.
    • by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @08:20AM (#56852742) Journal

      That said, I have to wonder what drove his attacker to (a) kill him, then (b) turn himself in within a few hours (but not immediately)....

      That's not uncommon, actually.

      People do the crime out of high emotion, then a little reason kicks back in afterward and they realize their situation is hopeless and they will be hunted down anyway.

      I actually know someone who did that (though he turned himself in in a couple of days, not hours).

  • by The Cynical Critic ( 1294574 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @06:39AM (#56852430)
    So I guess we can safely assume that he wasn't as great at resolving internet arguments as he thought he was?

    Because an argument that lead to one of the parties getting to pissed off they decided to find the other in meatspace so that could stab them to death can't have ended particularly well...
    • So I guess we can safely assume that he wasn't as great at resolving internet arguments as he thought he was?

      You really cannot say that based on a single incident, and not knowing more about this specific issue (assuming you don't know more than I do).

    • So I guess we can safely assume that he wasn't as great at resolving internet arguments as he thought he was? Because an argument that lead to one of the parties getting to pissed off they decided to find the other in meatspace so that could stab them to death can't have ended particularly well...

      There are always a few people out there who will resist any reasonable attempt to resolve differences, no matter how well done.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      He was probably thinking about securing online accounts and avoiding doxing... Which maybe he did, because the guy didn't go to his house or workplace, he had to wait for him to attend a public event to get near him. Avoiding murder was probably a bit beyond the scope of his talk.

    • by HalAtWork ( 926717 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @11:39AM (#56853862)

      How do you resolve an argument with a deranged person? That's a different type of negotiating skill

  • by fibonacci8 ( 260615 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @06:43AM (#56852438)
    Relevant XKCD [xkcd.com]
    • The thing I didn't like about that XKCD comic was that for the numbers to be comparable, you need to divide by the number of people participating in that activity. For example, a helluva lot more people ride elevators than go surfing or skateboarding. So even though elevators kill more people overall, the number of fatalities per participant is a lot lower for elevators.
    • Relevant XKCD [xkcd.com]

      Holy crap, a 50% increase in death by blogging!

  • Any word on whether the victim was heard gasping "Quod Erat Demonstrandum" as he was rushed off for treatment?
  • by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @07:48AM (#56852624) Homepage Journal
    That is why I never mess with you people online. You are all my friends.
  • by Martin S. ( 98249 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @07:51AM (#56852638) Journal

    There is also the case of the guy that flew from New Zealand to the US to attack teenage girl, and was shot.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor... [bbc.co.uk]

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by KiloByte ( 825081 )

      Where the difference between dead victim and barely surviving assailant was that in the US you are allowed means to defend yourself.

  • Hey ladies! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @07:58AM (#56852662)

    For your information, I give seminars on how to avoid crazy sex with multiple gorgeous women.

    Hint hint...

  • Wrong assumption (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @08:18AM (#56852732)
    Deceased made wrong assumption - that you could resolve arguments and reach understanding with all people. This is just not true.

    Additionally, Internet is unlike person-to-person communication in a way that you don't screen your audience for sanity and you don't get non-verbal clues giving you an early warning that someone is about to blow the lid.

    More so, once people made up their mind it is virtually impossible to change their mind with logic. People change their behavior and convictions due to pain (social or otherwise) and not due to being convinced by evidence and reason.

    As such, the only rational approach to online and social media discourse is to act pseudonymously and acrimoniously.
    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      As such, the only rational approach to online and social media discourse is to act pseudonymously and acrimoniously.

      The latter might not be a good idea if you can't absolutely ensure the former. Doxing is a thing.

      you don't screen your audience for sanity and you don't get non-verbal clues giving you an early warning

      You don't from sociopaths either. Or was that psychopaths? I always get them mixed up. Either way, I'm not going to rely on my amateur psychology skills to keep myself safe.

      • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @10:49AM (#56853592)

        Unfortunately, doxing is a thing regardless of how you behave. There are plenty of rational, civil, and well-meaning people that were dragged by a social mob. It is almost arbitrary on who gets targeted and why.
         
          Acting rationally and civilly is a handicap if your goal is to advance your ideas. Slogans and soundbites, shaming and insulting, and marginalization and uncharitable vilification of opposing views is by far more effective.
         
        This isn't how it should be, but this is how it is. Our society and norms are not designed for instant, global, and non-individual communication.

  • Reminds me of a local murder case decades ago, where a teen had been murdered in a store robbery where he worked, having given a speech in class earlier that week about how to talk one's way out of being murdered in a robbery.

  • by zioncat ( 632849 ) on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @12:40PM (#56854276)
    The suspect is a mentally unstable person who spent all day spamming comment sections of many blogs. The victim didn't really have an interaction with the murderer, he was just one of the victim of spam messages and reported him to admins. Suspect got flamed [archive.org] by some other commenter (not the victim) how internet warrior can't do anything in real life. After further taunting he decided to prove them wrong [archive.org] and randomly chose the victim because he happened to be holding a seminar near his house (the seminar [atnd.org] wasn't really about 'how to resolve personal disputes on the internet' and more generally about dealing with multitude of problems in maintaining a blog).
  • The gun people will talk about how you "don't need guns to kill people" and miss the point that any single murder in Japan is NATIONAL NEWS on an island where half the population of the US is crammed in a space the size of California. A relatively "interesting" Japanese murder (like this one) frequently ends up GLOBAL NEWS because it's so damn rare.

God doesn't play dice. -- Albert Einstein

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