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Four Dutch Uberpop Taxi Drivers Arrested, Fined 282

An anonymous reader writes with news that authorities in the Netherlands have arrested four drivers sharing their car for money through the Uberpop app. The drivers were then released with a fine of EUR 4,200 (USD 5,300) each and further threatened with additional fines of EUR 10,000 (USD 12,600) for each time they might be caught doing it again. While similar bullying applied to short rentals of private rooms through sites like Airbnb hasn't had the same success so far the thoughts go to the fined drivers, hoping they won't ever be caught carrying their grandmother to the supermarket then have to explain how they dared. Uber says it will "fully support" the affected drivers."
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Four Dutch Uberpop Taxi Drivers Arrested, Fined

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  • News at 11. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by queazocotal ( 915608 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @04:47PM (#48125903)

    It's not legal just because you saw it on the internet.

    • But "on the internet" makes for an entirely different legal situation. At least according to a lot of laws passed recently.

    • by burne ( 686114 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @05:46PM (#48126195)

      TCA, the largest 'traditional' taxi switchboard used to stand for "Taxi Criminals Amsterdam', not 'Taxi Central Amsterdam'.

      Much of the TCA 'staff' had 2-3 feet dossiers at the local prosecutors.

      Uberpop is a threat to local mafia.

      Need I say more?

      • by sabri ( 584428 )

        Uberpop is a threat to local mafia.

        They're a threat to all scumbag "taxi" drivers, not just TCA. Uberpop will soon come to Haarlem :)

      • Re:News at 11. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Kabukiwookie ( 2677869 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @06:42PM (#48126405)

        Yes indeed. If you're a tourist coming to The Netherlands, expect to be severely ripped off when when using a taxi. Not only are the taxi drivers generally obnoxious and sometimes downright hostile, there's no alternative other than the few privileged companies that are allowed to pick up travelers from Schiphol airport.

        A 30 minute ride will quickly add up to over 150 Euros and there's no recourse if there is any disagreement

        Rent a car if possible or take the train. It's cheaper and saves you a lot of hassle.

        • or take the train

          How? You can't even buy normal tickets anymore in The Netherlands.

          • Re:News at 11. (Score:4, Informative)

            by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @11:07PM (#48127565)

            How? You can't even buy normal tickets anymore in The Netherlands.

            You can get a ChipCart (I think that's the name) at the airport or at Central Station, then use that to ride the trains. You check in at readers on the platform before you board, check out when you get wherever using the same technique and it deducts money from your card.

            You can use that same card for buses, trams, trains, etc. You can keep it and use it again when you come back.

            • You don't have to buy an "OV-chipkaart" (public transport chip card) to get anywhere by train. If you use the train only incidentally, you can buy a paper ticket with a chip on it. You have to check in and out with it, but for the rest it's the same limited functionality.

              The chipcard has been met with criticism since its inception, though. Aside from the usual privacy concerns, it's poorly implemented. You have to check in and out between different transport companies, for example. And of course the compani

            • How? You can't even buy normal tickets anymore in The Netherlands.

              You can get a ChipCart (I think that's the name) at the airport or at Central Station, then use that to ride the trains. You check in at readers on the platform before you board, check out when you get wherever using the same technique and it deducts money from your card.

              You can use that same card for buses, trams, trains, etc. You can keep it and use it again when you come back.

              I've had trouble buying train tickets in NL - my memory said it was a combination of the train company not accepting bank cards without chips in them as well as refusing visa / mastercard.

              Perhaps someone in NL can clarify.

          • Eh? I was in Amsterdam a few months ago and took the train (and a tram) between my hotel and the airport. There were kiosks at both ends that would sell the tickets, taking cash or credit cards, and they were quite cheap - far less than a taxi. Buying tickets for the tram worked the same way. They contained a chip that you tapped on the readers, but aside from implementation details they were single-use tickets.
    • It's not legal when the people already in the field have grandfathered rights to screw over the competition.

    • by DrXym ( 126579 )

      It's not legal just because you saw it on the internet.

      There are plenty of apps which will hail a licenced cab, e.g. Hailo. It's the car and driver that matter and not the manner in which they were dispatched.

  • Biased summary (Score:4, Informative)

    by excelsior_gr ( 969383 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @04:49PM (#48125923)

    What kind of person bills his grandmother for taking her to the supermarket? Jeezz...

    Repeat after me: "it's against the law to drive people around for money without the proper credentials".

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You do realise that the whole reason this is a story at all is because the law is perceived as bad. It's not that people don't know the law; it's that this law is, at best, a bad joke.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Wrath0fb0b ( 302444 )

      What kind of person bills his grandmother for taking her to the supermarket? Jeezz...

      Repeat after me: "it's against the law to drive people around for money without the proper credentials".

      Your bit about "without proper credentials" makes it sound like all that's needed is for a driver to apply for a license and meet some objective requirements like driving records, vehicle inspections and insurance. If that were the case, you'd have a lot more folks siding with the law.

      Instead, in order to pick up a fare in Amsterdam [amsterdam.nl], you need to meet some other arbitrary requirements, chief among them being a member of a TTO ("Regulated Taxi Organization") with at least 100 cars. And to pick up a fare from

      • Re:Biased summary (Score:5, Informative)

        by WoOS ( 28173 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @05:46PM (#48126191)

        The arbitrary requirements you linked are to be allowed to use buslanes and taxi parking spaces in Amsterdam not to be a taxi driver in the Netherlands (it explicitely says that taxi drivers from outside Amsterdam are still allowed to drive into and out of Amsterdam without the "Taxxxivergunning"). So how about some information on the real requirements? Another page [amsterdam.nl] on the same site you linked mentions e.g. the "regels van de Wet Personenvervoer 2000" but my Dutch is not the best.

        At least in Germany the "proper credentials" do include e.g. a special driver license [wikipedia.org] which includes a medical analysis, a police clearance, a check of the driving penalty points registry, check of local knowledge, ... .

        • At least in Germany the "proper credentials" do include e.g. a special driver license [wikipedia.org] which includes a medical analysis, a police clearance, a check of the driving penalty points registry, check of local knowledge, ... .

          That would be a license that allows you to transport up to eight passengers commercially. No idea if you need such a license in the UK, never bothered to find out, but my UK car insurance doesn't cover commercial transport of passengers, and an insurance that does is _significantly_ more expensive than the one I have. Which means I would be illegally driving without insurance if I drove people around for money.

        • I really don't have any problem with any of the requirements you've listed at the end there, so long as they are administered objectively and impartially. They all seem unobjectionable.

          But providing favorable treatment to some licensed taxi companies over others -- such as the use of taxi stands and spaces -- rubs me as unjustified favoritism.

      • Re:Biased summary (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Harlequin80 ( 1671040 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @05:53PM (#48126217)

        And frankly I think this is a good thing. Getting in a car with a stranger can be a dangerous act. Knowing that the marked taxi that you are getting in is, most likely, driven by a vetted individual, maintained to at least a minimum standard, fitted with cameras and tracking equipment, all mitigate some of that risk.

        I don't care that you can drive your car on the road. Just because you do that doesn't mean you get to be a taxi. You state that being a member of a TTO of 100 or more is arbitrary. I say that it means the government has a single point of inspection and contact to manage a large number of vehicles. As for the professionalism, it is much harder to define. But if you want to be a busker in Brisbane city for example you need a license. There is absolutely no cost in getting that license but you have to do an audition. Basically it is the council deciding are your professional enough, and again no issue from me.

        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          Wow, you're really scared of cars. You must be terrified to sacrifice liberty for security so readily.

          This has nothing to do with product quality regulation. Product quality regulation is great and all, and a simple commercial drivers license would cover that. This is artificial scarcity. This is fucking the passengers and small businesses so that the large corporations make money. Why would you support that?

          • Because in Australia, where I live, it isn't about that. I don't know what taxi services are like in the US, but here I wouldn't change them. We have a commercial drivers license and we have taxi licensing and a centralised booking and ordering system which frankly works very well.

            I see no benefits to me to having an unregulated taxi operator working here.

            • by lgw ( 121541 )

              So price doesn't come into it then? Freedom to start your own small business (assuming you have a CDL) doesn't come into it then? What you really want is a government-appointed driver for a government-appointed car to take you to your government-approved destination at the government-approved time? Isn't that what busses are for?

              • I obviously see it differently. Yes price is a factor. But Australia went to regulated taxis for safety reasons. Both that safety of the driver and the passenger. Here most taxi drivers are their own business and operate under the banner of the major brands.

                Also I don't see how I am being taken from a government approved start to finish? Unless you mean a street address? I think you are stretching a bow here. Regulation is not inherently bad

                • by lgw ( 121541 )

                  Regulating product quality is fine. Regulating who's allowed to buy and sell (government-granted monopolies) is inherently bad.

                  • This isn't a product, it is a service. So ergo the only way to regulate the service is to regulate the person doing the selling.

                    • by lgw ( 121541 )

                      Yes, yes, but you can do that in an open an objective way that anyone with a car can qualify for, if the goal isn't monopoly-granting. If someone who's currently working as a taxi driver can't trivially become a legal Uber driver (assuming his insurance carries over), or just start his own service or whatever -- that is, it's the driver, not the business, who qualifies -- then it's all a sham to stuff corporate pockets.

                    • This isn't a product, it is a service. So ergo the only way to regulate the service is to regulate the person doing the selling.

                      And you can regulate the person doing the selling and the car he's driving without favoring one person over another or empowering a cartel.

                      Falling into the "regulation-bad" "regulation good" dichotomy is really killing us here. Regulating the driver's record, the vehicle and his insurance is eminently sensible. Beyond that, it's just protectionism.

                • I obviously see it differently. Yes price is a factor. But Australia went to regulated taxis for safety reasons. Both that safety of the driver and the passenger. Here most taxi drivers are their own business and operate under the banner of the major brands.

                  Also I don't see how I am being taken from a government approved start to finish? Unless you mean a street address? I think you are stretching a bow here. Regulation is not inherently bad

                  This is bullshit. Each state racket has their own scheme of licensing, it isn't unified across the continent. As for most taxi drivers owning their own business; you'll more likely find that the licenses are owned by (and traded amongst) a class of wealthy investors who wouldn't see fit to sit their arses in the driver's seat of a cab.

                  The drivers are likely to be impoverished newly minted immigrants who get paid a pittance and, typically lacking in local language fluency, get fleeced when legal things go a

          • Liberty requires a functioning society and the rule of law to protect it. How bout we start with "its currently illegal, and not causing any gross injustice, so you obey the law"?

            Because otherwise, its not liberty you like, but license.

          • What part of "Getting in a car with a stranger can be a dangerous act" did you fail to understand?

        • by mysidia ( 191772 )

          And frankly I think this is a good thing. Getting in a car with a stranger can be a dangerous act.

          They background check their drivers. IIRC you see a picture of them and a profile before they can even pick you up.

          You know more about these drivers than you would know about the taxi driver who is coming to get you.

          • Re:Biased summary (Score:4, Informative)

            by Harlequin80 ( 1671040 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @08:14PM (#48126841)

            Uh huh...

            NBC recently tested Uber’s background checks by putting forward reformed criminal Beverly Locke, who bragged about her “three-page rap sheet”, as an UberX driver. Locke, on probation after nearly beating a woman to death, had prior convictions for burglary, drugs and assault, but was hired to be an UberX driver after filling out the online application.

            But this is where regulation comes in. I have no trust in Uber. I mean my should I? There have a vested interest in approving drivers. The regulator however does not. A regulators signoff on a person is worth something to me, seeing their picture on Uber's website is now.

        • liability issues do you want to be a victim and be left to fend for your self?

          http://www.theverge.com/2014/3... [theverge.com]

      • I don't speak Dutch, but usually these laws make a distinction between a taxi, that charge in arrears, park at taxi stops etc and private hire services like limos.

        The objective requirements you talk about is all you generally need to provide private hire services.

    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      What kind of person bills his grandmother for taking her to the supermarket? Jeezz...

      Apparently, this is quite common in impoverished areas where the grandmother and lots of relatives may be living in shared space and the grandmother incapable of driving, but she needs to buy groceries for herself, and possibly some children whose care has been foisted on her, BUT everyone else does their own shopping.

      The kids will bill the parents/GPs for everything, and depending on the circumstance, even charge th

    • Repeat after me: "it's against the law to drive people around for money without the proper credentials".

      No society based on consent can *enforce* laws a significant portion of the public disagrees without commensurate erosion of state legitimacy or otherwise moving of needle from "consent" toward "force".

      Either stepped up enforcement actions bring about increased pressure to change the law or otherwise resolve disagreements by amicable compromises such as reduction in licensing burdens or the industry goes underground where state looses visibility and ability to regulate while wasting resources and good will

      • by qbast ( 1265706 )

        No society based on consent can *enforce* laws a significant portion of Slashdot readers disagrees without commensurate erosion of state legitimacy or otherwise moving of needle from "consent" toward "force".

        FTFY. Slashdot-dwelling Randbots are against it, not Dutch public.

  • I wouldn't trust the company to have my back. I may be a bit gullible and trusting, but I know enough to know that Corporate America will fry you in the name of money or image perception.
    • Image perception is the reason you may be able to trust them. They'll fail in all regulated markets if their attitude is "if you get fined, too bad"

  • Bullying (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ZipK ( 1051658 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @04:59PM (#48125965)

    While similar bullying...

    Enforcing laws is bullying?

  • by gman003 ( 1693318 ) on Sunday October 12, 2014 @05:30PM (#48126123)

    The level of astroturfing for Uber is getting ridiculous. I was sympathetic at first, because I can see how the existing monopolies are bad, but:
    a) They aren't even trying to change the laws, they're just ignoring them. There are some laws that are so bad civil disobedience is a valid tactic. This is not one of those laws, and even then, when you do civil disobedience you're supposed to *accept* the legal punishment, because you *did* break the law.
    b) They're astroturfing like crazy to frame the debate as "the common man versus the big bad taxi monopolies" when it's really "big international web-based corporation versus big local corporations". I don't care how many times you make sockpuppet comments about it, nobody's getting arrested for driving their grandma to the grocery store. People are getting arrested for running unlicensed taxicabs.

    Licensing taxis is a good thing. The current laws may be overly-restrictive to protect existing businesses, but the spirit of the law is good. Uber? You're not. Any sympathy I once had is gone, purely because of your PR tactics. I was already unlikely to be a customer (I *have* my own car), but now I'm definitely not going to.

    • Thanks for the insightful comment. I had no opinion on the matter (and no mod point, alas!), but you've
      shed some light on it, at least. And prodded me to read up on Uber a bit, and what they're up to. Thank you.

    • Couldn't agree more. There is nothing inherently good about Uber and some of their tactics are down right scummy.

      Uber has been issued a cease and desist here in Brisbane, will be an interesting one to watch as taxis here is Australia are pretty damn good. They are far from perfect of course but they are clean, and reasonably timely. The real issue with them is the system creaks under the load on a Friday and Saturday night.

    • We have a separate class of 'Licensed Hire Vehicles' which are not as flexible as taxis - you have to book them rather than hail on the street. This does require explicit registration of the vehicles, but I've seen one with 'Uber' flashes, so it seems to work. This is a good solution for people who want to make a real living out of Uber, rather than just occasional.

      http://green.autoblog.com/2007... [autoblog.com]

      is an alternative outcome - registration to avoid London's congestion charge (for driving in the street
      • Not knowing the intricacies of UK rules, what you mention still means that not just anyone who happens to own a car may start offering rides for pay.

        The key is "Licensed Hire Vehicles" - they're licensed, so there must be some requirements for those that do not apply for normal private cars. Probably extra driving course and insurance, that kind of things. And as soon as they're licensed, they're legal to drive people around.

        The problem of most Uber drivers is that they are not licensed to carry paid passen

    • I wish Silicon Valley would start developing market schemes like this for the medical field. How often do I take cabs? Now how often do I stuff the pockets of the Pharma monopoly?

      • There's nothing requiring you to go to registered doctors or official hospitals.

        When getting sick, why don't you fly over to Africa (the plane tickets cost you about as much as a night in hospital in the US), and ask some witch doctor to treat you (his fees for a full treatment may be less than what your regular doctor will charge you for a consult)? Maybe it's because you hope to get a proper treatment at your registered doctor, who you know has finished a rigorous training, and that the hospitals you're t

    • What laws have they broken in Amsterdam? Do you know? The article doesn't seem to know either. Limousines seem to operate fine in Amsterdam. Limousines are just not allowed to use the taxi stands. Why is Uber not allowed to operate the same way as limousines?

    • by brunes69 ( 86786 )

      I don't care how many times you make sockpuppet comments about it, nobody's getting arrested for driving their grandma to the grocery store. People are getting arrested for running unlicensed taxicabs.

      It is not that simple in today's mobile world and the sharing economy.

      Tell me along where in this strata of events does driving in your car become illegal, because it seems to be an awfully fuzzy line to me

      • I agree to drive you to the airpot and we're close friends
      • I agree to drive you to the airport and we're w
      • by ZipK ( 1051658 )

        All they are doing is providing an app that connects two parties, one of whom needs a ride and the other who doesn't mind giving a ride.

        Selling a ride, not giving a ride.

      • The line is when the payment goes from "covering expenses" to "generating profit".

      • All of the above, except instead of my friend it is an application on my phone.

        At that point, because its no longer an agreement between friends.

        How about this appropriate analogy?

        I cook a meal.
        I cook a meal and invite you over to eat it with me as a date.
        I cook a meal, invite you over to eat it with me as a work thing.
        I cook a meal, invite my friend and my friend invites you to go in his stead.
        I cook a meal, invite my friend and my friend invites you to go in his stead, and you offer to reimburse me.
        You co

      • See the point here? Uber IS NOT RUNNING A TAXI SERVICE. All they are doing is providing an app that connects two parties, one of whom needs a ride and the other who doesn't mind giving a ride. So how do you make this illegal?

        Germany has the nice law principle that it doesn't matter how you dress it up and what you put into your contracts, what matters is what actually happens. So it's clearly a taxi service.

      • by dave420 ( 699308 )

        You missed the last one:

        I agree to drive you to the airport and although I don't know you personally my friend introduced us and I trust him, and you agree to reimburse me and pay me a profit for the journey.

        That's where it becomes illegal. Right there. That precise line. The one you conveniently missed out. Weird, huh?

    • Uber said it will pay all fines [nos.nl] forced upon its drivers by the authorities. Meanwhile the government said it will greatly increase the fines for multiple offenses by these same drivers, should they occur. I am with the government here, and welcome such regulation, as opposed to Uber's 'rating system' for driver's, or whatever Uber calls it.

      Full disclosure, I'm a bicyclist and a pedestrian, and I feel threatened lately with the increase of in-car gizmos, and I believe only government will help people like me

    • by tgv ( 254536 )

      You are completely right. I came here to say something to similar effect. The "share economy" is just shifting the employer's risk from employer to employee, almost returning labor to hour or piece wages. It's not sharing, it's another way of getting profit. So if Uber wants to sell taxi rides, they can get a license like everybody else.

  • The city just wants their cut of the commerce. No doubt they will frame it in the "for the safety and regulation of the city" terms.

    The vested interests will also complain about fair competition. The problem with that is you can't stop more efficient businesses forever. Holding them back too long creates more problems when the crash finally comes

    In the end the laws are just behind. There are all this under used goods and services in the cities. (Cars idle all day at work, rooms empty while people

  • I mean yeah this is slashdot but it feels like it's been quiet a while since I read such an opinionated summary here. How can you publish that crap? Oh right. Slashdot.
    • by tgv ( 254536 )

      It's dubbed "astroturfing": a form of propaganda whose techniques usually consist of a few people attempting to give the impression that mass numbers of enthusiasts advocate some specific cause. They are also completely ignoring the fact that nobody else wants it to be legalized. That /. publishes it, is the result of a lousy, commercialized editorial policy, and another illustration that you cannot trust sources that offer you new for free.

  • Operating a taxi in most of Europe requires a taxi licence, a criminal background check, a "knowledge" test plus additional road safety requirements for driver & car. Uber is not exempt from this and if drivers don't meet the requirements they're going to be treated like any other unlicenced driver and fined. Sucks to be them but its not bullying. These laws existed before Uber turned up and if the company and their drivers didn't bother to do the due diligence then whose fault is it when they run afoul
  • It was very obvious this was going to happen. Authorities even announced they would take action, and Uber has been very public about going to start this service and that they would pay any fines.

    I don't know what the playbook of Uber and the transport inspection services are, but it is obvious that for both sides have these fines as part of it.

    This makes it possible for Uber to fight it out in the courts, and will likely trigger discussion in the parliament that may lead to changes in the laws.

  • "the thoughts go to the fined drivers, hoping they won't ever be caught carrying their grandmother to the supermarket then have to explain how they dared"

    Unless they're planning on charging granny for the trip to the supermarket, this isn't relevant.

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