Police Using Dogs To Sniff Out Computer Memory 415
First time accepted submitter FriendlySolipsist points out a story about Rhode Island Police using a dog to find hidden hard drives. The recent arrival of golden Labrador Thoreau makes Rhode Island the second state in the nation to have a police dog trained to sniff out hard drives, thumb drives and other technological gadgets that could contain child pornography. Thoreau received 22 weeks of training in how to detect devices in exchange for food at the Connecticut State Police Training Academy. Given to the state police by the Connecticut State Police, the dog assisted in its first search warrant in June pinpointing a thumb drive containing child pornography hidden four layers deep in a tin box inside a metal cabinet. That discovery led the police to secure an arrest warrant, Yelle says. “If it has a memory card, he’ll sniff it out,” Detective Adam Houston, Thoreau’s handler, says.
Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:2, Insightful)
Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that?
hidden four layers deep why that for a USB stick? doing that will make them want to look at the data.
Just shipping them unhidden is more likely to just pass though
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that?
Uh, yeah. Most judges rubber-stamp search warrants.
Also, does concealing a memory device now automatically imply child porn?
The cops get bolder every year, and people just go along.
Cop: "I asked him for his ID, and he went fishing in a pocket. IT COULD HAVE BEEN A GUN OR KNIFE, SO I SHOT HIM".
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does bubble wrap count as concealing now?
If so how can you safely ship stuff like HDD's with USPS, UPS, FEDEX with out damage?
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Funny)
If so how can you safely ship stuff like HDD's with USPS, UPS, FEDEX with out damage?
Include a few dried habanero peppers in the package.
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Aren't there like three actual sins against humanity, all of them including domination of the weak or innocent? .... is there a third?
Sure, the abuse of government warrantless searches in spite of that being directly prohibited by the Fourth Amendment. Let's call that number three and for a fourth let's take the paramititarized police forces using extrajudicial methods to suppress dissent from ordinary American citizens.
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Actually diddling kids has been standard practice in many cultures until fairly recently - it's only in the last few centuries that it's begun getting a bad name in the West. Hell - take the word "erotic", derived from the Greek "eros" - an emotion that was accepted to only be possible within the confines of a relationship between an adult man and a young boy - something that was openly embraced at the time.
Moral of the story: don't assume that your modern moral compass is of any use in determining histori
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Those that use Leviticus are idiots as crazy as Jew and Muslim fundamentals
Leviticus is the entire basis of sharia law in Islam exact book is used and mosaic law in Torah
Jesus was specifically asked in new testament about the old law of moses, Jesus replied that he was the new law, inferring that the old ways were over and antiquated, he simplified the entire belief. Instead of all the stupid rules Jesus says there is just one, "god sent his only son, so that anyone believeth in him shall have everlasting l
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Insightful)
i guess if dogs can smell memory sneakernets into dictatorships to provide outside information is doomed. i wonder can they smell a blu-ray too? cause 25 GB is a lot of storage...
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:4, Funny)
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Maybe you can help me find my copy of Step Brothers.
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Given how bad that movie stunk, if it's still around, it should be trivial to find.
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:4, Insightful)
The dog is not being used to establish probable cause, it is being used to aid in the execution of a search warrant where probable cause has already been established.
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Insightful)
>where probable cause has already been established.
Or where a suitably incriminating memory stick has been prepared just in case there isn't one inside the metal box
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Interesting)
Guess how convenient this is if the powers that be want to get rid of inconvenient you...
And for what? Even if some pervert watches child porn doesn't make him a rapist or molester any more than you wanking off to "normal porn"[1] makes you a rapist or molester. If you say he's supporting child porn, then you should follow the money and jail those responsible for creating it. If he's torrenting it, then using the **AA's logic, he's killing the child porn industry
[1] in some countries "normal porn" is illegal. Go figure.
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Yeah that's my real worry about all this child porn stuff - "everyone" turns their brains off and starts getting their pitchforks ready to lynch you.
Guess how convenient this is if the powers that be want to get rid of inconvenient you...
The NSA has a huge stash of child porn just for this purpose...
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Imagine, if you will, people filming murders and then trading those videos around.
Then arrest the murderers. This is not hard. Stop trying to push draconian laws and censorship on everyone else.
I think the problem is that the video drives people to create more. Making it illegal to possess them might cut down on the child abuse happening. If that's not good enough, then consider it a form of copyright infringement to possess said videos.
Not only do you have no good scientific proof that this is true, but even if it were true, censorship is 100% intolerable even if it did cut down on crimes.
As for copyright, that needs to be gotten rid of as well.
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Imagine if you were kidnapped, raped, while being videotaped. Should said video be allowed to circulate all in the name of anti-censorship?
Absolutely.
While I feel copyright reform needs to be dealt with, I don't believe it should be gotten rid of.
The problem is, there is no valid scientific proof that it's even effective to begin with. Furthermore, it violates free speech rights (to enforce it, censorship is often required) and private property rights (Can't have people sending certain non-private data using their own equipment!). I would oppose it outright solely because of the latter two reasons combined.
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Informative)
A search cannot be legally executed unless there is probable cause established before hand.
1. That's naive. It's quite common to conduct a search and then dream up the probable cause later.
2. Establishing probable cause is easier than most people think.
3. They don't need probable cause to search when crossing the border of the country.
4. Or when you're within an area referred to as a 'buffer zone' or 'national security corridor', which extends something like 100 miles from the international border itself, and can go even further in some cases.
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4. Or when you're within an area referred to as a 'buffer zone' or 'national security corridor', which extends something like 100 miles from the international border itself, and can go even further in some cases.
Dont forget what is found during a traffic stop in some areas of some states that then leads to civil forfeiture.
ie your cash is removed and the hidden digital storage device is also examined.
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The dog is owned by the Rhode Island State Police, who don't do border searched. The regular police still need search warrants in the "buffer zone".
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Yes they do. And i have seen the cops training snd talking about it first hand.
My brother got a german shepard pup and took him to be trained. I picked them up once when his car was broke down. The cops use the same training facility to recertify their dogs so i figured i would watch a bit. I overheard one officer telling another that each dog will use one of three different cues when they want them to go off. He said they use three different ones to keep it simple yet different enough that its hard to tell
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, does concealing a memory device now automatically imply child porn?
Where have you been the last ten years? Trying to conceal anything at all from a law enforcement officer implies you're up to something. Only criminals insist on privacy now, citizen!
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Either child porn or you are part of a terrorist cell.
Because you have something to hide, you are obviously guilty of something.
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Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Also, does concealing a memory device now automatically imply child porn?
No it could be something really serious like copyright infringement
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, does concealing a memory device now automatically imply child porn?
This is a fine argument for universal use of full-disk encryption.
And I sincerely hope that real child pornographers get it wrong.
Even so, let's drop political correctness and tell it like it is: our culture embraced "innocent until proven guilty" and "freedom from unreasonable search and seizure" for very good reasons. While we can all agree that harming children is abhorrent, removing those rights and freedoms from society at large does far more harm, to more people, and is the greater evil.
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Per TFA they generally have evidence that someone connected to the house they want a search warrant on is connected with criminal activity. And asking for a search warrant for all the data storage devices present at the house seems perfectly valid to me.
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Funny)
This might be a fun thing to do. Get a lot of old flash drives, sd cards, and the like, the old super cheap ones of course, and stick them everywhere. Under the carpet, taped to the bottom of the drawers, in the hem of the curtain, etc. After 30 or 40 of them, somebody is going to get sick of playing that game, and it might be the dog, If you're really mean, store a picture of a treasure map on each one, and maybe some lists of random hexadecimal numbers.
It'll drive them nuts. To really get the point across when they ask, just tell them the truth, that it's a joke, there's absolutely nothing of value stored on them, and yes, you want them back and undamaged.
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:4, Interesting)
Since the dog can't smell memory, it must have been trained to smell something about the electronic components. That's bound to trigger a LOT of false positives in the modern world.
Officer: "May I see your driver's license and registration?"
Driver: "Yes, here it is."
Officer: "I noticed that your middle interior brake light is out and a little bit back you swerved."
Driver: "Yes, I know the light is out, I just haven't had the time and money to get it fixed. And I swerved because a saw a small rabbit hop toward the road on the other side of a tree."
Police Dog: "Bark! Bark! Bark bark! Bark!"
Officer: "Alright, so have you done any drugs?"
Driver: "No."
Officer: "Do you have any drugs in the car?"
Driver: "No, I told you I don't do any drugs."
Officer: "Well my dog smells something suspecious, so I have the probable cause required by law to search your car."
*officer opens glove compartment; dog gets excited"
Officer: [saying quietly under his breath:] "Shit, it's just a fuse box."
Officer: "Looks [smells?] like you've got a burnt fuse there, buddy. You might want to get that fixed."
Driver: "I know. It's been blown for about two weeks. My interior lighting doesn't work."
Officer: [silently thinking to himself:] "I guess I'm going to have to find some other way to nab this guy or work on finding someone else to nail. I need to meet my quota for this month."
For some reason, I *totally* imagine that or a similar situation occuring, and probably more than a few times in the future...
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The future is now....
Re: Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:2)
Also, put some encrypted files on each. From ROT13 to something serious. Make sure the encrypted content is creative commons so that you can't be accused of copyright violation.
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On a serious note, that could actually be illegal in some places.
Absolutely it is. Depictions of fictional characters involved in a a fictional molestation of a fictional victim of unknown age (because it is fiction) but which, if translated into the real world, may have been an underage individual, is absolutely illegal in many jurisdictions.
It is also illegal in some jurisdictions to possess video in which a person who IS of legal age engages in sex while dressed up to appear to be someone not of legal age. It would also be illegal to film that video in those jurisdi
Re:Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? (Score:5, Informative)
Any Memory?? what judge will go on just that? hidden four layers deep why that for a USB stick? doing that will make them want to look at the data. Just shipping them unhidden is more likely to just pass though
No judge will go on that......in this case, the police had been following the guy compiling evidence for seven months before getting a warrant. The guy was abusing a 7 year old girl and taking pictures of her. They brought the dog in after the search warrant was obtained, because a lot of times child-molesters hide the pictures on small SD cards in ceiling tiles or something. At least read the article before getting outraged. Even if it's not as fun.
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The article is written in a way that makes it sound like they might be talking about one case, but there are two separate cases. The case you referenced, where they compiled evidence for seven months, was in Warwick, RI. The case the person you responded to referenced, with the USB stick hidden in a tin in a metal cabinet, was in Connecticut.
Chances are that the Connecticut case was similarly investigated before a warrant was issued and the USB stick found, but the article doesn't give any details on the
Sooo (Score:5, Funny)
Can he packet sniff?
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What if you loaded the thumb drive with pictures of squirrels? Would the dog recognize that?
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Amazoing (Score:5, Insightful)
I had no idea the contents of a physical drive changed its smell!
This is very intriguing!
Re:Amazoing (Score:5, Funny)
It's true. As soon as my computer downloaded this, I could smell the bullshit.
Re:Amazoing (Score:5, Interesting)
I also smell the bullshit. I remember watching a USAF security specialist with a "drug" dog. He walked down the bay with the dog trotting beside him, stopped at a door and bounce a rubber ball off the door. The dog began to bark and scratch at the door. The CQ opened the door and they searched the lockers finding a bag of pot. Imagine that. That's when I realised that someone narced and the dog was for looks so no one would suspect.
Re:Amazoing (Score:5, Informative)
That's called 'parallel construction' - the practice of fakeing a source in order to conceal the real source. It's used to protect informants by allowing for plausable deniability, giving the appearance that the police stumbled upon a crime by other means or sheer luck.
It's still controversial because it can also be used to aid the police in using illegally gathered evidence while concealing that fact from a court.
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Re:Amazoing (Score:4, Informative)
That's called 'parallel construction' - the practice of fakeing a source in order to conceal the real source. It's used to protect informants by allowing for plausable deniability, giving the appearance that the police stumbled upon a crime by other means or sheer luck.
No, what GP described is NOT the potentially legal version of "parallel construction." Parallel construction, done properly, is supposed to involve the construction of a legitimate alternative chain of evidence, where the original chain of evidence came from a questionably legal information source (e.g. NSA wiretap, improper search) or a source that can't be exposed for some reason.
The way this is supposed to work is that all the legally obtained evidence is given to a separate law enforcement person, who doesn't know the case or have the detailed evidence and who then investigates in a legal fashion. As long as there is no "fruit of the poisoned tree," the investigation can be legit. The recent controversy is often that in new cases, the NSA will convey an "anonymous tip" or something to law enforcement to search a particular place... but after that tip, the police are still expected to act legally.
In GP's case, the officer presumably received a tip that that particular house had drugs. The dog was brought past to provide probable cause (in addition to the tip) for a search. However, in this case the dog didn't sense anything, so the officer chose to commit an overt illegal act and fabricate evidence for the probable cause.
So, while "parallel construction" is on questionable legal ground in many cases, GP's description involves fabrication of evidence... which does not lead to parallel CONSTRUCTION, since no legitimate chain of evidence was legally constructed.
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Actually, GP was correct, and you seem to be misinformed. The notion of parallel construction originated in protecting CIs, and has been used for that purpose for decades. Extending it to cover illegal NSA wiretaps was a more recent development.
you need to be on the jury (Score:3)
you need to be on the jury.
While child pornography is bad the lost of rights / junk science to by pass your rights is much worse
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you need to be on the jury.
Even if this story was about using the dog's response to establish probable cause for a search, any assessment of the validity of that probable cause is done during the preliminary stages of the trial, before the jury is called in. The jury is then merely instructed that the search was valid. It's incredibly rare that a jury is allowed to assess the validity of evidence gathering, or even told that the defence raised any issue at all.
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It's not like it matters. No one gives a shit anyway. As long as he's small potatos he can rant his drivel all he wants. It's like a fart in the wind. Only a tiny percentage of the people in this country want to be free.
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It is the self-important nobodies like you that are special.
In a country where most people support the TSA, the NSA's surveillance, free speech zones, protest permits, DUI checkpoints, copyrights, patents, stop-and-frisk, unrestricted border searches, constitution-free zones, mass public surveillance conducted by the government, anti-gun laws, plea bargains, or some form of warrantless wiretapping in general, it is not difficult to be "special"; you just have to oppose all of those things.
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It would be an incredible act of good faith to suppose that law enforcement would never use this technique outside of this narrow venue.
Likening the use of storage devices to repositories of child porn is but a step away from condemning personal computers for the same principle. "You wouldn't mind us searching if you have nothing to hide, right?"
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Police K-9s are routinely used during roadside automobile stops to establish probable cause in cases where consent to search is not granted.
Police K-9s who can sniff illegal substances. Silicon memory chips/processors are not an illegal substance.
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Re:you need to be on the jury (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not the dog that decides if the car contains drugs. It's the handler. If the handler wants to see a search carried out, the dog will find something suspicious.
Re:you need to be on the jury (Score:4, Informative)
And the supreme court ruled that even if there is evidence that the dog was broken or the handler was lying (a case where a dog supposedly indicated on the same guy twice and no drugs were found either time) as long as there is some test in the past that indicates that the dog works that there is no evidence of misconduct on the part of either the dog or handler.
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It's been going on a looooong time. Bloodhounds chasing convicts and other handy uses. Dogs are nifty for police work.
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This is why I store all of my flash drives in a Milkbone box: hiding in plain sight.
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A dog's sense of smell is amazing. I bet a dog could tell if a search warrant is valid or not by smell alone. Perhaps the ACLU should train some of those dogs, to find invalid search warrants and prevent violations of the 4th amendment.
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The summary is misleading. They can't smell the pornography, only the flash memory/hard drive. The idea is that if someone hides a memory device somewhere the dog can help them find it, regardless of what it on it.
Even so it seems a bit unlikely. Being able to separate a solid state memory device from any other random plastic/silicon electronic device is a stretch.
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I bet they really bark at the keyboard then. I wonder if the ones with the dirty pictures smell different than the ones with the TPS reports.
And what if your case for "probable cause" (Score:3)
Your Honor, this person of interest may have hard drives or thumb drives, and these types of storage devices are commonly used to store CHILD PORNOGRAPHY OHHHH GOD THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!! WHY WONT YOU PROTECT THE BABY JESUS??????"
Warrant granted -- get those scumbags. And I wont cry if they die before seeing a jail cell!
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Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.
HDDs smell bad (Score:2)
A little behind the times (Score:5, Funny)
Typical government bureaucracy, relying on outdated technology.
Nearly 10 years ago, top minds in the private industry [wikipedia.org] already developed super dogs that not only detected DVDs but could also determine the legal status of said DVDs by smell alone.
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I think WWJBD's point is that the dogs are actually useless exactly because they can't make this distinction, and that it was all a bullshit PR exercise; the subtext is that this is similar.
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. . . then-MPAA chairman and CEO Dan Glickman said . . . "the dogs are some of the greatest employees we have here at the MPAA"
You know what, I totally believe that the guy was speaking the truth. I mean, the characteristics possessed by the average dog puts it fair and square above an MPAA employee.
Dog's accuracy depends... (Score:2)
Dog's accuracy depends... (Score:2)
The dog then slobbers or moves ie 'alerts" - instant "probable cause"
Before we go down the misinformation rabbit hole (Score:3, Insightful)
The smell of YOU! (Score:2)
But then it occurred to me, it's not the card/usb-stick the dogs are smelling, it's the fact that some human touched it, probably repeatedly from using the USB-memory (or harddrive) for a long time, this is bound to leave your human scent on them, and thus making it easy for the amazing dog nose to
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If it is in your home, one would assume a great many things would smell like you, namely your clothes bed, couch, fridge, chairs, table, door handles, bathrooms, and any number of other things that would all register as false positives were that the case.
I agree with you on that, but it makes a lot of sense as the culprit would probably have used the drive quite a lot, especially during certain acts *no further descriptions needed*, I'd expect certain secretions to become transferred to the surface of that drive making it unusually easy for any dog to sniff out. You know how small micro-SD cards are, right? Imagine someone hiding it in-between the wafering of a cardboard box, or perhaps a crack in the wallpaper? Surely that must give off the odor of the co
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Using your *no further descriptions needed* scenario, the person would have touched many other things with the same scent: his keyboard, his mouse, his desk, the door of the filing cabinet, the tin box, possibly the key to the f
This is so incredibly stupid. (Score:2)
A) There is this little thing called "The Internet" that people use to send each other information. Why the hell would someone go to the risk of keeping a thumb drive that can be identified as in their possession and have their fingerprints, when they can just send an encrypted file?
B) I doubt the dog can smell memory in particular, he can probably just sniff electronics. Everything nowdays has some kind of electronic component, I doubt this will be very useful.
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I suspect that mechanical hard disks stand out since they are lubricated with some kind of oil. But otherwise not.
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Probably, but if the premise of the small flash drive for smuggling CP was implausible, a bulky HD is even more so.
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This is so incredibly stupid. (Score:3)
The big risk was having your laptop like device cloned at the border. Now just having a computer is part of a civil forfeiture risk.
Good luck with that... (Score:2)
In my home I have way too many hard drives laying around from old computers - and a lot of other electronic parts. It will take quite a while for them to go through the stuff - provided that they can find useful controller cards for reading them.
There will be no changes. (Score:2, Interesting)
As the drugs war winds down... another war on freedom starts.
Memory? (Score:2)
All the devices mentioned are storage, not "memory".
Anyway, police dogs are a scam. Like Clever Hans, they are more attuned to their trainers emotions than s/he is, and can baffle and impress the unwary with seemingly impossible tricks as a result. Granting a warrant based on a dog alerting is effectively the same thi
Lots of false positives ... (Score:5, Insightful)
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And we have a winner! This is nothing more than a slightly more elaborate version of the plastic "magic wands" Iraqi security forces were (and probably still are) using to detect everything from explosives to drugs. The could be counting birds flying by or examining entrails: the point is to let them legally search (harass) citizens.
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One time pad (Score:2)
So now I can't even hide my one time pad? Which I keep for perfectly legitimate purposes.
I'm going to start hiding beef jerky in random places in my house.
useless. (Score:5, Insightful)
One step closer to 'thoughtcrime' ;(
Side note, there's a shortage of dogs capable of doing real work, like search and rescue. why waste good talent on this shit? I can't think of a reason this should ever be an issue.
Is the end game going to be that whenever going through customs all storage will be scanned and stored "just in case"? :(
Better idea (Score:2)
I think the cops probably need to do more old-school investigating and undercover work. I think that we need the death penalty for child molesters and life imprisonment for anyone caught in possession of or distributing child pornography. I think it'd be great if there were any t
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The justice systems of most countries have little focus on rehabilitation. While the term justice might sound noble, to many people it is just a polite way of expressing a desire for collective vengence: there is a natural urge to see evildoers made to suffer, and giving them access to education and counciling is not suffering.
1984 (Score:2)
A small quantity of _DRUG_TYPE_ were also found.
How do you defeat dogs? (Score:5, Informative)
There was a Mythbusters where they tried to fool a drug dog. I only caught the tail end of it (no pun intended) and the only attempt I saw was the target item inside a suitcase with dirty diapers in a room full of suitcases. If I remember the wrap-up scene the dog always found the target.
I'm curious what else they tried to trick the dogs with. The cynic in me believes the cops wouldn't have cooperated if they had actually come up with a technique that worked.
I wonder if vacuum sealing works -- presuming of course you wash the exterior of the vacuum sealed container and possibly double-bagged it. I use a FoodSaver model for food items and since the sealed bag holds a vacuum, presumably there's no way for the odor to migrate out.
Re:How do you defeat dogs? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's kinda remarkable how rarely Mythbusters bust a law-enforcement myth, or fail to bust an evasion myth.
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It's kinda remarkable how rarely Mythbusters bust a law-enforcement myth, or fail to bust an evasion myth.
The Mythbusters do what they have to in order to keep access to the Alameda bomb range and other law enforcement resources, especially after their little cannonball incident.
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Can they tell the difference between RDRam and SDRam?
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Yeah, selling expensive, failure-prone hard drives to criminals so that dogs can't find them and the police will instead tear their house to pieces to eventually find a specialized sealed hard drive for avoiding detection which only a (very, very stupid) criminal would want.
Sounds like a real business opportunity, are you selling shares?
I don't even want to know what you think the "few layers of aluminum foil" would be good for, but I am certain it wouldn't work, whatever it is.
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How much of the house would be left before they gave up searching if there was nothing to be found? Police do not like suspected criminals, they aren't going to be gentle. If I were hiding a memory stick I would hide it inside the float valve in the cold water header tank, cut along the seam and melted back together. So if they were really being through enough to find something like that they would have to be ripping apart the plumbing. I wouldn't be surprised if they carry out some deliberate destruction f
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