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New Zealand Spy Agency Deleted Evidence About Its Illegal Spying On Kim Dotcom 222

Posted by samzenpus
from the was-that-wrong? dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The latest news in this: GCSB appears to have deleted key evidence in the case in a ham-fisted attempt to cover up its illegal activities. Even more ridiculous, GCSB is trying to cover this up by claiming that the material had 'aged off' — implying that it was deleted automatically. New Zealand Prime Minister John Key claims that they had to delete the information under the law. Of course, there are a few problems with that. The first is that under New Zealand law, like most countries these days, parties have an obligation to preserve documents likely to be necessary in a legal case. But, even more damning is that there's video of John Key in the New Zealand Parliament trying to defend against an earlier claim that GCSB had deleted some evidence by insisting that GCSB does not delete anything ever:"
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New Zealand Spy Agency Deleted Evidence About Its Illegal Spying On Kim Dotcom

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  • Fuck GCSB! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:23AM (#46171883)
    And fuck Beta!
  • FUCK BETA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:25AM (#46171893)

    FUCK SLASHBETA

    • Re:FUCK BETA (Score:5, Informative)

      by Joce640k (829181) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:33AM (#46172199) Homepage

      If it's as bad as you say (I haven't seen it yet) then there's a simple answer. Boycott the site for a week. Everybody.

      You can bet that classic will be back up and running if you do that.

      Can't live a week without slashdot? You're part of the problem.

      • Re:FUCK BETA (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:40AM (#46172235)

        Silence demonstrates complacency. The more people are vocal the more they'll feel pressure. Your idea basically amounts to giving up for a week when the time is now more critical than ever to be obnoxiously vocal.

      • Re:FUCK BETA (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Thanosius (3519547) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @08:07AM (#46172389)

        I expect what's more likely to happen is that people will spam FUCK BETA and make similar posts in the comments sections of all stories. Comments are what keep people around Slashdot these days and if the comment sections falls apart, the site will follow.

        It's much more likely than a boycott and since the idea of doing so seems to have spread rather quickly across Slashdot, people like feeling like they're part of a group of protesters who might actually be able to make the change they're after.

        • Re:FUCK BETA (Score:5, Insightful)

          by captainpanic (1173915) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @08:34AM (#46172521)

          I totally agree. I only visit Slashdot for the comments (the news is often posted elsewhere up to 2 days earlier). No comments, no slashdot. And I noticed that the comments section is pretty bad in the beta (far less comments fit on screen, with much more whitespace, making it more difficult to browse the comments).

      • by fatphil (181876)
        Submit a story about boycotting beta, so that we all know when it should be done. Seriously. People who can see the firehose would bubble it up towards selection. (Unless, like me, they can't see the firehose, or do anything if they can see it.)

        At the moment, with no javascript, and only select cookies, I'm managing to stay classic, but I'm prepared to boycott /. to make a stand.

        Can we resurrect Bruce Perens' Technocrat as a home for the old-school nerds?
      • If it's as bad as you say (I haven't seen it yet) then there's a simple answer. Boycott the site for a week. Everybody.

        You didn't say when. Fortunately, someone else already suggested a week to boycott. :)

        -- Common Joe

        Slashdot Valentines Day Massacre: Boycott Slashdot because "Fuck Beta!": February 10 - 17

        And Support Okian Warrior's Alternate Slashdot [slashdot.org] Idea!

    • by gl4ss (559668)

      if you use classic mode from prefs then you're not on beta. but every fucking reply takes you to a new page, which is kind of annoying as you can't see the whole thread.

      probably less annoying than the beta look though.

      • by Joce640k (829181)

        if you use classic mode from prefs then you're not on beta. but every fucking reply takes you to a new page

        probably less annoying than the beta look though.

        Ummm....no. When I hit 'reply' a box appears below the original message and I can type there.

        Check your noscript settings or something if it doesn't.

        • Which other site should I enable? I have /. and fsdn unblocked. Doubleclick is advertising (Which is disabled anyway), as is the two Google sites, and RPXNOW is social login. I don't see any others listed.
    • Re:FUCK BETA (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GameboyRMH (1153867) <gameboyrmh@gmail.cCOBOLom minus language> on Thursday February 06, 2014 @10:07AM (#46173121) Journal

      Just tried it. It's far from unsalvageable but it has a couple of simple, but massive flaws. One is the skinny comments section. That sucks hard, make it full-width. The next is that Slashdot seems to be following the trend of many sites to become more like Instagram. Lay off the pictures, don't put a big pic with nearly every article for the sake of having pictures, which is exactly what's happening. If it's really relevant use a small one, not some giant pic I have to scroll past taking up big chunks of valuable content space.

      Last one, and it's not a big one, I'm not sure I like the more minimalist content section. I'd definitely miss the comment ID link and friend/foe indicator.

      • Well, you know why it's skinny, don't you? Because everyone reads Slashdot on their phone and phones are skinny! Unless you turn them sideways, but no one does that! I hope they cut the comment width to about one inch. That way we can all see the quality ads that Dice wants us to see. Maybe they can make their ads blink, too, so that we have the full FUCK SLASHDOT BETA experience!

  • Maximum penalty... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Joce640k (829181) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:26AM (#46171895) Homepage

    There should be a law that says "Assume guilt, apply maximum penalty, put people in jail" when stuff like this happens.

    Same for Arthur Anderson and their shredding parties, etc.

    • by EmperorArthur (1113223) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:35AM (#46171951)

      Judges don't take kindly to things like this, plus Evidence Tampering is a separate crime.

      Then there's the fruit of the poison tree argument. I don't know about NZ, but here in the US all evidence that comes from illegal evidence is considered illegal. So if the original evidence against Dot Com was illegally obtained by the GCSB, then everything, including all the search warants, is inadmissible. That's probably why it was deleted. When Dot Com's lawyers go to make that argument expect the government to say something like "you have no proof."

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        All very true, except that the judge isn't going to care what the government does.

        "For reasons of national security, and reasons that can not be made public that had nothing to do with my pension, the government has displayed a compelling argument that demonstrates complete constitutionality with regards to these absolutely necessary actions. Won't somebody think of the children before they are turned into terrorists."

      • by Arrogant-Bastard (141720) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:37AM (#46172219)
        You're correct but it's not obvious that the law will actually be applied in this case. Clearly, the NZ and US both really, REALLY want to crucify Dot Com and are willing to break the law, cheat, lie, steal, defraud and everything else in order to do it.

        Meanwhile, Slashdot Beta is absolute crap, and if the morons, idiots, and assholes pushing it persist in this stupidity, then they should expect a boycott.
        • by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @09:35AM (#46172811)

          You're correct but it's not obvious that the law will actually be applied in this case. Clearly, the NZ and US both really, REALLY want to crucify Dot Com and are willing to break the law, cheat, lie, steal, defraud and everything else in order to do it.

          As an American, I can tell you that US definitely wants to get him as it's what our overlords in Hollywood (including the RIAA) want. It's really difficult for me to see why NZ would care much at all, but I can understand that the US might use pressure to make them care. However, I have to agree with what another poster said in saying that NZ might be deliberately screwing up as a way to (secretly) protest being goaded into action by the US.

        • Clearly, the NZ and US both really, REALLY want to crucify Dot Com and are willing to break the law, cheat, lie, steal, defraud and everything else in order to do it.

          The question I keep asking is: Why?

          Oh I know that businesses and corporations the world over hate Dot-Com, but why would public employees in NZ and the US be willing to break the law over this? I cannot grasp why civil servants would go out on a limb like this over what basically amounts to a frivolous case.

          If you were a desk-jocky in NZ law e

    • by qpqp (1969898)

      There should be a law that says "Assume guilt, apply maximum penalty, put people in jail" when stuff like slashdot beta happens.

      FTFY!

    • "Guilty until proven innocent, because it's unfair to try an innocent man" - Q
    • by sribe (304414)

      There should be a law that says "Assume guilt, apply maximum penalty, put people in jail" when stuff like this happens.

      I don't know about there, but at least in the US the judge is likely to instruct the jury: "assume the worst about what the destroyed documents contained".

    • by Catbeller (118204) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @04:29PM (#46177723) Homepage

      The point, the very essence, of the electronic surveillance state is that YOU have no privacy or hope of leniency. Your watchers, however, are secret, immune, and implacable. Whenever someone says, "Just don't do anything wrong!", or, "What have you got to hide?" or, best, "Get the fuck over it, privacy is dead.", remember this story. The people who run the panoptikon, who can call in Copyright Commando raids against a home *in another country*, can accuse and prosecute and steal; however, they themselves can lie, hide, destroy evidence, and operate in total secrecy. Power without consequences for the corporations and governments, while *you* will be held responsible for every bad thing you've ever said or did. Anywhere in the world that has power that can get access to the panoptikon can drag your ass back to their jurisdiction (well, America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia can, anyway).

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:27AM (#46171901)

    pretty please?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:27AM (#46171903)

    Beta sucks. Fuck Beta.

  • But it seems you turned to shit practically overnight.
    • by mwvdlee (775178) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:43AM (#46171985) Homepage

      Sometimes I get the feeling that NZ is deliberately messing this up.
      That the US might have pushed them to get Kim and this is just NZ's way of protesting it.
      The amount of mistakes made in this case is approaching comedic levels.

      • I find it hard to believe that the government of NZ is subjecting itself to ridicule, expense and possibly legal jeopardy to protest the actions of the US. They have diplomats to protest whatever they want to the highest levels of the US government anytime they like. No, I'd guess that they really are just that incompetent. That US, entertainment industry, pressure and bribes caused them to ride rough over NZ's laws. With their actions starting to come out into the open and be seen by the NZ public they ar

    • Spying to maintain power or to satisfy big-corporate donors is an inherent vice of centralized government. This doesn't just happen in New Zealand.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:37AM (#46171961)

    You stay classic Slashdot!

  • SLASHBETA ADMINS (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:48AM (#46172005)

    FYI, The slashbeta admins are modding threads and replies as -1.... like 5-10 posts all at once. No REAL COMMUNITY MEMBER MODS are doing this, but the admins.

    Users don't want Slashbeta, but the admins are trying to suppress this obvious reality. The last 3-4 stories all comments are 99% anti-slashbeta and they still want to pretend they're listening to us and asking for our feedback.

    The feedback is to take your fucking redesign and rm -fr

    Die in a fire slashbeta

    • by gbjbaanb (229885) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:44AM (#46172251)

      not sure about that - most people with mod points will mod "fuck beta" posts as -1 as they are offtopic, and such posts are easy to moderate (ie you don't have to think if something is insightful or informative for example).

      However,I don't think there are enough mod points available to kill all the fuckbeta posts.

      BTW fuck beta. Really, fuck the stupidity of it. (I wouldn't mind if it still delivered what is important about slashdot but its just sidelined the comments and stories as if they're the irrelevant parts).

      • by Common Joe (2807741) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @09:50AM (#46172929) Journal

        not sure about that - most people with mod points will mod "fuck beta" posts as -1 as they are offtopic, and such posts are easy to moderate (ie you don't have to think if something is insightful or informative for example).

        I always mark things off topic, but not this time. I'm making an exception and I'm not the only one with mod points making that exception. The Dice overlords didn't hear the first dozen times we screamed about the beta site so we're screaming louder since they are telling us they are going to take away our classic view. Really... this is the last time before Slashdot implodes. If they move ahead to the beta crap and force us on it, Slashdot is going to be a ghost town.

        -- Common Joe

        Slashdot Valentines Day Massacre: Boycott Slashdot because "Fuck Beta!": February 10 - 17

        And Support Okian Warrior's Alternate Slashdot [slashdot.org] Idea!

        • by gbjbaanb (229885)

          Slashdot Valentines Day Massacre - forget boycotting it, make one of those days the "fuck beta" day where no comment shall be allowed except to say "fuck beta".

      • by Sam H (3979) <sam@zoy.org> on Thursday February 06, 2014 @09:54AM (#46172983) Homepage

        Well at least I shall use all my mod points to flag fuckbeta posts as “Insightful”, because they are. Off-topic, but insightful.

  • Forking Slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:48AM (#46172007)

    We need a forking plan for near future when everything goes "Beta" permanently.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:54AM (#46172029)

    ...and what's up with all the hate agai...(click).

    Oh. What in the holy fuck is this?

    Nevermind. Fuck Beta.

  • Fuck Beta (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @06:55AM (#46172037)

    Keep Classic

    Fuck Beta

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Hans Reiser would know how to deal with this bitch

  • by spiritplumber (1944222) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:02AM (#46172065) Homepage
    I couldn't comment on Beta in the proper link because it's down, so I'd like to go offtopic for a moment, and note that the Beta interface is unwieldy and takes longer to load (which makes a difference on 2G/3G tethering). Therefore, I'd like to vote against it. Thank you.
    • by geekmux (1040042) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:25AM (#46172161)

      I couldn't comment on Beta in the proper link because it's down, so I'd like to go offtopic for a moment, and note that the Beta interface is unwieldy and takes longer to load (which makes a difference on 2G/3G tethering). Therefore, I'd like to vote against it. Thank you.

      And ah, no need to apologize for being off-topic my friend. Apparently, every topic has a similar answer here lately. "Fuck Beta".

      And when Beta turns out to be a hot porn star, that answer will be an accurate one.

      Until then, it's the new SlashWarCry to insist our beloved aged-like-XP interface remains unchanged.

      Or at least stop us from migrating to that thing I've now politely labeled as Slashdon't

      Slashdon't. Please.

    • by gl4ss (559668)

      you know what's funny? it's supposed to be more mobile friendly.

      which it ain't.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:04AM (#46172087)

    This site is probably the reason I didn't finish my university degree in 2000.

    I have spent ages here, and took part in some very intelligent discussions.

    Slashdot has always been about the highly educated user base, you could always count one at least one knowlegable person in the comments getting to the heart of TFA.

    It has been in decline the last few years, maybe because new users find reddit first (and then they are reduced to drooling zombie basement dwellers) or maybe because the editors are worse (though complaining about the editors is nearly as old als /. itself), I don't know.

    But this site redesign will be the end of it once and for all. The main selling point of slashdot is it's userbase. Scare them away and all you're left if is a generic 'news' rehashing site.

    But the stubborn pushing of this disastrous beta (office politics? nobody wants to be mean to the nice new designer?) makes shure it will at least go out with a bang and not slowly fade away.

    I watch with a sad sort of amusement as if my old college dorm where I spend so many good parts of my life is burning to the ground because the homeowner thought it would be a good idea to replace all woodwork with cardboard.

    • by qpqp (1969898)
      I agree, except that I would have finished earlier and for the last part:

      I watch with a sad sort of amusement as if my old college dorm where I spend so many good parts of my life is burning to the ground because the homeowner thought it would be a good idea to replace all woodwork with whitespace.

      FTFY

      Slashdot Beta sucks balls! Fuck beta!

    • This site is probably the reason I didn't finish my university degree in 2000.

      Maybe the design is form the best. Maybe we are spending too much time here.

  • by EzInKy (115248) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:04AM (#46172089)

    ...will it take for slashdot to abandon this course? I'm only asking because I love this site and want to continue to to support it as long as I am able. Tell us please, this really is a case of Dice asserting it's supremecy isn't it? I can't fathom why the usual slashdot admins would subject their usership to these shenagagins.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm surprised nobody gets this. The new slashdot isn't for you; it's not for the current userbase. They want a more marketable userbase. They want companies to pay to have stories posted (speculation, but I get that impression from the new layout since the focus is more on the posts than the discussions.) Why? because good community driven discussion sites simply aren't profitable enough.

      The new site doesn't "suck"; it is designed for more consumption and less interaction. Of course it actually sucks,

    • by MrNemesis (587188)

      The AC above me http://yro.slashdot.org/commen... [slashdot.org] pointed this out but I'd like to add a "me too".

      In my opinion, dice have taken a look at the amount of ad revenue they get from /. and decided it's not worth it. A very sizeable percentage of people here will run adblockers and the click-through rates of the ones that don't are almost certainly minuscule, and the community here has been traditionally very wary of paid placements masquerading as news, shills and all the rest of it. People come here for the di

  • by sodar (550013)
    I login here on rare occasions. One of them is now. Fuck beta!
  • Beta sucks balls (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Does anyone notice a cycle?

    They ask for feedback, they say they care.
    5 stories now 99% of comments pure hate. The disgust is everywhere.
    They continue to make it worse pretend that no one fucking hates it.
    We get more pissed
    They tell us we're "griping" and want to know what's wrong...
    Well them what's wrong (everything...again ).....
    Nothing changes...

    LIP SERVICE

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 06, 2014 @07:33AM (#46172195)

    Hey Dice, remember Digg?

    July 2008 Digg took part in advanced acquisition talks with Google for a reported $200 million price tag
    August 25, 2010 Digg v4 site redesign
    July 12, 2012 Digg announced its sale to Betaworks for $500,000

    Is that what you want?

  • by seebs (15766) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @08:01AM (#46172353) Homepage

    If you want to hear from us on the beta, why does mail to the given email address bounce? Maybe fix your stuff.

    • by Corbets (169101)

      If you want to hear from us on the beta, why does mail to the given email address bounce? Maybe fix your stuff.

      Mine went through this morning. I expect it's directly related to mailbox capacity and the sheer amount of hate they've received today.

      FUCK BETA.

      • The beta email bounced? Now that's just funny!

        -- Common Joe

        Slashdot Valentines Day Massacre: Boycott Slashdot because "Fuck Beta!": February 10 - 17

        And Support Okian Warrior's Alternate Slashdot [slashdot.org] Idea!

  • by fleeped (1945926) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @08:03AM (#46172363)
    It will be cool to see the comments in the thousands, even if all are screaming in unison the same two words.. "Fuck beta". But seriously, fuck beta and you're not google: shove it down our throats and many of us will be out.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Googling "Fuck Beta" brings up Slashdot as the 10th search. It will be racing to number 1 in no time.

      Have you noticed how much weight Google gives to Slashdot in its searches, Dice? Maybe find a way to monetize that instead of pissing the whole user-base down the drain with a "Let's do something!!!" idea.

      Did you know that Google is easily the world's most profitable web service, Dice? What is most remarkable about their design? Ah yes, the CLEAR UNCLUTTERED INTERFACE.

    • Agreed. The beta is terrible. That's not just resistance to change talking, either. Would like to read a story about how 'they' came up with the new format, market research behind it, why 'they' think that these changes are needed, extending to what other changes they have in the works. I think 'they' fundamentally fail to understand that slashdot is not a facebook/google/twitter/pinterest/etc type community. Nor would I, among many others, quite obviousy, like it to be such. Keep the classic format,
      • by Tackhead (54550) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @12:19PM (#46174649)

        Would like to read a story about how 'they' came up with the new format, market research behind it, why 'they' think that these changes are needed, extending to what other changes they have in the works.

        Now that would be an interesting story. Hear it from their side, and gain some insights into why deathmarches like Unity, Metro, and Slashdot Beta continue on into production despite overwhelming negative feedback.

        It's like nobody in IT understands the sunk cost fallacy: when you're in a hole, stop digging. Managers think they can resolve the waste of dollars in the past by digging up, and in so doing, throw away good money after bad.

  • by Pop69 (700500)
    Just say FUCK NO !
  • Anyone that deletes evidence should be considered admitting that they did commit whatever they're being charged with, and with malicious intent.
  • They deleted the evidence of spying because it's spying. If they didn't try to hide it, then it would be spying now, would it? They have a word for spying where you don't hide the evidence. It's called "watching". And, rest assured, they're doing that too.

    I mean, duh.

    Governments really get off on this super-secret shit, don't they? It's almost like they've got something to hide. What is it about all the so-called "free societies" that seem to be dying to turn themselves into East Germany circa 1962?

  • Okay I just tried it. OMG FUCK ME.
    Viewed on my phone, htc evo 4g.
    Very serious image display errors, stretchef to
    many screen heights. The links to the article are all broken.
    Dont think from-the-xx-dept tags are there.
    Wont view ./ on phone ever again if that braindead clusterfuck goes through,
    which is most of the time these days. Cannit see posts either!!!!!!
    FUCK BETA!!!!!!!

  • I like Slashdot - I really do. The news may be a little stale, but the design is clean and efficient, and the commenters are generally reasonable adults. Now, a lot of successful web pages have been redesigned to "freshen" them or expand their market. I wonder how well that works out, in general? I no longer use Google News, Google Images, Slate, or a family of humor sites - was it cheesburger? - I used to visit. I can't think I'm so much an outlier that I'm the only one.

  • My previous comment in this topic was my first comment in beta. I notice a bug: the title line defaults to empty instead of Re: . It's nice to be able to modify the thread title, but the Re: should be a default.

    Design issue: there needs to be a 'no images' option for people running on restricted bandwidth.

  • That would compensate somewhat. Then we would have to continue with /. classic.
  • That javascript pop-up at the top asks for feedback with a link to feedback@slashdot.org, subject beta_feedback. (I'm not doing an actual link, because the beta site appears to not allow links).

    I've already sent an email stating that, if beta becomes permanent, I will be deleting my account and not returning to Slashdot. If everybody gives their feedback about the Beta, perhaps they'll realize that they're going to lose all their money when we stop visiting.

  • What's next? Pictures of cute kittens? Fuck Beta.
  • by kbahey (102895) on Thursday February 06, 2014 @12:17PM (#46174613) Homepage

    I have been a regular visitor to Slashdot for around 15 years. For that, I get the checkbox to disable ads, though I browse with Javascript disabled so my browser does not slow down.

    I come here for the discussions, and often read comments at +5, changing that only if I find a discussion interesting and warrants reading at a lower level.

    The new beta uses JQuery for the comment threshold selector, and changes that on the fly. This means all the comments are loaded, but not visible, and processing any page with considerable number of comments will slow down MY computer! If I have a few tabs open to read later, my computer will be unusable.

    What is worse it that they require you to click on the slider on every article to change the threshold! This is just insane!

    If they insist that I enable Javascript to browse the site at the threshold I want, then they will lose me as a long time. I imagine that others long timers will hate the site too.

    Dice have to remember that this site has two unmatched features, interlocked: a moderation system that is good at cutting down the trolling, spamming, and noise, and a comment section that is frequented by many people who are passionate about technology and other nerdy stuff.

    If they wanted to intentionally ruin the site and drive people away, they would not have done any worse than what they are doing now.

    If they manage to aggravate a lot of their users, the comment section will no longer be attractive to the audience. Perhaps we should revive kuro5hin?

    I wrote the above in a feedback form that I filled a while ago, and I am emailing this comment to their feedback@slashdot.org. Please send them feedback too.

    And mod this up so Dice can see what they are getting themselves into.

  • You know those mistakes that Apple, Microsoft, Canonical, Gnome, etc, everyone and their mother is making? Massive unworkable user interface changes that hobble the customer's ability to utilize their product? Thanks Dice, you've infected Slashdot with it. This is fucking disgraceful.

What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon.

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