EV Owner Arrested Over 5 Cents Worth of Electricity From School's Outlet 1010
sl4shd0rk writes "It seems you can be arrested in Georgia for drawing 5 cents of electricity from a school's outdoor receptacle. Kaveh Kamooneh was charged with theft for plugging his Nissan Leaf into a Chamblee Middle School 110V outlet; the same outlet one could use to charge a laptop or cellphone. The Leaf draws 1KW/hour while charging which works out to under $0.10 of electricity per hour. Mr Kamooneh charged his Leaf for less than 30 minutes, which works out to about a nickel. Sgt. Ernesto Ford, the arresting officer, pointed out, 'theft is a theft,' which was his argument for arresting Mr. Kamooneh. Considering the cost of the infraction, it does not seem a reasonable decision when considering how much this will cost the state in legal funds. Does this mean anyone charging a laptop or cell phone will be charged with theft as well?"
Henchman (Score:4, Funny)
He's obviously in the pocket of Big Oil.
Re:Henchman (Score:4, Funny)
He's obviously in the pocket of Big Oil.
He stole the script for Fast and Furious 8.
Re:Henchman (Score:4, Funny)
In other news: You can charge a Nissan Leaf with a phone charger....
Re:Henchman? Looks more like another Entitlement (Score:4, Insightful)
Theft is theft, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:5, Funny)
In most states, Theft under $5 is just a ticket...
Citation needed
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:5, Funny)
We just shoot them and then call the police. :-)
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:4, Funny)
> Citation needed
If you need a Citation, you can pick one up for a grand or two. [craigslist.org]
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Damn. He could have bought a lot of 7up for that kind of money.
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:4)
My idiot son stole a 20oz bottle of 7Up at Walmart and had to pay a $200 fine to the Norman, OK court and $100 fee to Walmart.
Big difference. The 20oz bottle of 7Up is a product on display for sale that has a price printed on it.
This incident is more like getting a $200 fine or jail time after exiting the rest room at the Walmart, due to having "stolen" $0.01 of water and sewage used by flushing the toilet, $0.07 of toilet paper flushed down the toilet, $0.03 of soap used to wash the hands: all because you also dumped an extra half gallon bucket of horse poop down the potty, that came from your horse parked in the outside lot.
But the water service belongs to walmart, and theft is theft: right?
Re: (Score:3)
Citation: a compact car made by Chevrolet
Re: (Score:3)
In most states, Theft under $5 is just a ticket... Theft under 5 cents is a PR nightmare. :)
Yeah, because nothing gets the attention of the news like someone stealing a nickel's worth of something, while people are all around stealing much more, defacing public/private buildings, driving 15 mph over the speed limit by the thousands, etc. Y'know, ordinary every day, acceptable crime.
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
But theft above one billion entitles you to a government bailout and "free from jail" card.
Stealing bucks is for losers!
Re:Theft is theft, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Theft may be theft ... but is this theft?? And I don't even care about the ridiculously low monetary value
IANAL, and I certainly haven't read through the EULA and TOS associated with the wall plug in question ... but it sounds like something provided by the school for students and teachers to use on their personal electronics. Which is exactly what he was doing.
Seems more like stuffing your pockets full of "free samples." A bit tacky, maybe a wrist-slappable offense, but certainly not theft.
You (i.e. the school and/or cops) don't get to retroactively go back and say "We meant any personal electronics EXCEPT cars! Yeah, so you're in violation, arrest him"
Re:More than theft (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about an 8.3A draw. It's not going to burn down the building, even if another such draw is happening. I'd be surprised if the breakers are rated for anything less than 25A, and wouldn't be surprised to see 40A breakers.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:More than theft (Score:5, Informative)
Did you get that out of your A$$, or thin air? You are quite incorrect.
I'm a BSEE-toting master electrician.
1) Commercial buildings, like that school, must have minimally 20 Amp minimally circuits- never 15.
2) A 20 Amp breaker trips at 20 amps. 16 amps is the max continuous load current allowed (80%) but NOT the trip current.
3) There certainly ARE 40 amp receptacles!! I've installed MANY! Go to your favorite hardware store and look for stove/dryer receptacles and you'll find them. There are several sizes and styles in 30, 40, and 50 amp range, including 3 and 4 prong (4 if neutral is needed - NEVER share ground with neutral!)
And then you have twist-lock connectors which can go to hundreds of amps...
Please don't write so authoritatively when you (obvious to me) don't know what you're talking about. You're misleading others who will easily believe you.
please go back to apprenticing (Score:4, Informative)
No, a breaker doesn't immediately trip at 0.1A over. Not even close.
And you say there are 40A outlets? No kidding. I would think you'd know the names NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 6-50 (stove/dryer outlets). This article isn't about NEMA 14s or 6s or the rare 5-50., it's about regular NEMA 5 household outlets ("standard 115v nominal household (NEMA 5-15p) plug is rated for 15 amps").
Please tell me your name so I can know I'm not having you wire my house.
Re:More than theft (Score:4, Informative)
There's NEMA 5-30, 5-50, 6-30, 6-50, 10-30, 10-50, etc. Where do I find a NEMA x-40? I won't limit you to naming a favorite hardware store - name anywhere on the Internet.
Re:More than theft (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, a 15A breaker may or may not trip at 15.1A. There is quite a bit of fudge room in the spec. You can pull quite a bit more than 15A on a 15A breaker for a short period of time.
Google for "Circuit Breaker Characteristic Trip Curves" for what may or may not trip a breaker.
Some interesting facts:
It is possible to pull between 95-115% of the rated current of a breaker basically indefinitely without it ever tripping.
It is possible to pull 150-240% of the rated current of a breaker for 60 seconds before it trips.
It is possible to pull 300-600% of the rated current of a breaker for 10 seconds before it trips.
It is possible to pull 900-2000% of the rated current of a breaker for 1 second before it trips.
Re: (Score:3)
Or, if a breaker is getting old, it can start tripping at less than 100% of rated load.
Source: my electric clothes dryer was drawing 29.9A and started tripping the 30A breaker after 3 years of no problems.
Replace breaker, no more trips.
Re:More than theft (Score:4, Informative)
No, the outlet should be fine at 9 amps. If it can't handle that safely, they are in violation of code.
For reference, the EV was drawing 1 KW. A hair dryer or a sopace heater draws 1.5KW.
So it's really down to 5 cents worth of electricity.
Re:More than theft (Score:4, Interesting)
Which raises the question: why did Nissan design it to only pull 1KW from a slow enough 110V outlet when it was perfectly capable of delivering 1.5KW?
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not saying they shouldn't tell him that the outlet is NOT for his use. Or even put up a sign to that effect. That done, if someone charges their car from it anyway, charge them the 5 cents plus a $10 administrative fee. I wouldn't be that upset if they sent him that bill instead of the crazy arrest.
It's not like they would have hundreds of people charging though, there aren't that many outside outlets within reach of a parking space.
Re:More than theft (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldn't be that upset if they sent him that bill instead of the crazy arrest.
The Leaf owner in question is a habitual troublemaker who violated orders of the property owner already (per the link to 11alive.) He also argued with the cop and refused to admit a mistake. (If he did that, the cop would let him go.)
Such a person would throw that bill away and come to that school to recharge as matter of teaching them a lesson. An arrest record is just deserts for this behavior, if the report is accurate. The society does not need antisocial egotists.
It's not like they would have hundreds of people charging though, there aren't that many outside outlets within reach of a parking space.
Expect all outdoor outlets to be locked as soon as enough EVs start charging without permission. The liability is far greater than the cost of stolen energy.
Re:More than theft (Score:4, Informative)
Finally the car owner could be electrocuted or electrocute someone else if the outlet or car is misconfigured, exposing the school to risk.
If the school was so badly wired that plugging in to an outlet could cause that kind of damage then someone is exposing everyone in that school to an awful lot of risk, and it's not Kaveh Kamooneh.
Re:More than theft (Score:4, Insightful)
What makes you think it's there for the benefit of the public? It's more likely there for the sole use of custodial/maintenance staff.
Re:More than theft (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you have an electrical outlet on the outside wall of your home? A water faucet? Please let us all know where we can come and charge and wash our EVs at your expense.
When you go into a restroom in a park, do you take a couple of rolls of toilet paper home? It's there for the public, after all.
Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Interesting)
from Ars:
"A short time later, he noticed someone in his car and went to investigate—and found that the man was a Chamblee police officer. "
So, cops just randomly enter other people's cars? I know I used to always lock mine if I wasn't in it.
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:4, Insightful)
not illegal to enter a vehicle being used in the commission of a crime in progress
yes this stealing of elecricity was wrong and illegal, electric vehicle owners have no right to plug in whereever they find an outlet.
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Informative)
Theft of service is the specific crime, I believe. You can get charged with this for throwing trash in a dumpster that doesn't belong to you or you have permission to use.
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:4, Interesting)
not illegal to enter a vehicle being used in the commission of a crime in progress
yes this stealing of elecricity was wrong and illegal, electric vehicle owners have no right to plug in whereever they find an outlet.
Gasoline powered cars produce exhaust which contains noticeable amounts of poisonous gases such as carbon monoxide and sulphur dioxide. Clearly the driver of any vehicle putting such dangerous chemicals into the atmosphere (Where children might inhale them. Won't somebody please think of them?) is committing attempted murder which is wrong and illegal, so that makes just about any car in the country fair game.
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Insightful)
IANAL but as I believe (as others have pointed out) it's not illegal for a police officer to enter a vehicle being used in the commission of a crime (at least in all the US municipalities I'm familiar with). However, that said, the more I think about it the more I believe you've just touched on the REAL reason for the absurd $0.05 theft of service charge. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the cop is using that as a way to legalize what would otherwise have been an illegal fishing expedition searching through the guy's car for more serious contraband. If he didn't charge the guy with SOMETHING, he risks becoming the criminal.
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Its not so much about being ok or not being ok....its about it being such a small amount that anyone making any sort of a deal over it is....kind of an asshole.
If I caught someone stealing 5 cents from me, it would be unlikely to garner more than a "hey what the fuck man".
There is being right, and there is being an asshole who is right.
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll grant that a nickel's worth isn't enough to hang him over... but what we're up against here is the tragedy of the commons. [wikipedia.org] One person doing it has little to no impact on the scheme of things, but once people decide it's OK for him to do it, why not me too? And my neighbor. And the 600 other people in the immediate vicinity. You can't let him get away with it and then run us off, that's discrimination!
This isn't about stopping that one guy from helping himself to a nickel's worth of electricity. It's about setting a precedent before it gets out of hand. I'm normally as anti-authority, anti-government as they come* but I can see the need to stop this early.
*And with that comment out in the open, I'd like to wish cheery holiday greetings to my fans at the NSA
Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Except this is a "commons" that doesn't have to be common. I don't know about this school or how far from the car it was but.... I have an electrical outlet on the outside of my house. Its not very close to the street, and I STILL have it on a switch which is inside the house.
Fact is, they put it out there, in public, where people could use it. If they put up a water fountain would they arrest people for stealing water when they drank from it?
Personally, I am perfectly ok with setting the precedent that if you put something that looks like a service out in public with no control over it whatsoever, you are giving them implicit license to use it.
Re: (Score:3)
Exactly... he could have done it a hundred times, in which case he would have stolen five whole dollars worth of electricity. This is super serious stuff, people.
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Re:Cop was "in his car"? (Score:5, Insightful)
What I see is someone poking around a car... Guy walks up gets mad. Turns out guy poking around is cop. Yelling match ensues. Guy arrested for whatever the cop can think of.
Re: (Score:3)
I doubt conceal-carry or right-to-defend laws will protect someone if used in defense of a cop-killing incident.
Officer's No Risk Employment Boost (Score:5, Insightful)
He has virtually zero risk in such an arrest.
He enhances his standing, knows he'll get a conviction and won't face a drunken driver or armed robber. Easy hit for his weekly arrest and ticket actions.
Re:Officer's No Risk Employment Boost (Score:5, Insightful)
He has virtually zero risk in such an arrest.
Is this true? What if the arrested individual raises a stink and files suit? The issue here is that cops can do blatantly stupid things (sometimes causing fatalities), paper over it with any one of a number of vague laws being violated (resisting arrest!) and catch no flack for their inept handling of issues.
This sounds racist (Score:3, Insightful)
I bet if the "suspect" was named "John Smith" and white he might not have been arrested.
I'm surprised that didn't make it into the summary.
Re:This sounds racist (Score:5, Informative)
Unlikely. There is no evidence that the cop saw the defendant before entering his car and preparing the paperwork to fine/arrest him.
Absolutely false. All he has to do is type the license plate into the computer and it shows a picture of the owner, their details and outstanding warrants. An officer not doing this would not be doing his job and during a traffic stop would be putting himself in needless danger.
Re:This sounds racist (Score:5, Informative)
Unlikely. There is no evidence that the cop saw the defendant before entering his car and preparing the paperwork to fine/arrest him.
You might want to read about what happened. There's a convenient link near the top of this page. There's even an original source linked from there [11alive.com], if you want to hear the story from the people involved.
Kaveh Kamooneh parked his car, left, and shortly after that an officer came by to search his vehicle. When Kamooneh returned to the vehicle the officer confronted him, informed him that he should be charged with theft by taking, and then left to file a police report.
A week and a half later Sergeant Ernesto Ford, who was not the same officer, got an arrest warrant and sent two deputies to Kamooneh's home at 8 PM, a time which conveniently meant that Kamooneh could be booked and placed in a cell, but unable to be released until fifteen hours later.
Are you trying to tell me that in the eleven days between the original police report being filed and Sgt. Ford preparing the paperwork to send Georgia's Finest around to put him in jail, that he didn't have tje time to look at the name "Kaveh Kamooneh" and compare it to "John Smith"? Even in Georgia it doesn't take that long to sound out the letters and figure out what they say.
Considering the wonderfully tolerant history of small-town Georgia, where people of all origins and colours are universally welcomed with open arms and considered part of the family by one and all, it's more likely that some members of the Chamblee police department simply don't like electric cars, but there is always the small possibility that one unusual American just might dislike people of Iranian descent and be looking for an excuse to act on that.
Stranger things have happened.
Not money, precedent. (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect it is about establishing precedent and combating the idea that EV owners are entitled to "free" power, not about recovering costs in this specific incident.
Re:Not money, precedent. (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree with the arrest, you don't get to plug in your car or arc welder into someone else's outlet
Re:Not money, precedent. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think a stern warning or a ticket makes more sense.
People who say someone should be arrested for something as mundane this, even if he should not have done it, haven't never been arrested before.
No matter WHAT the reason, you are treated as a dirty murdering rapist while in the cell by the LEO's.
There is no universe in which this arrest makes any sense. (A ticket... of course).
It's not about 5 cents (Score:5, Informative)
1 kW to charge an EV is an entirely different matter (it's actually probably closer to 1.5 kW which is about the safe limit for most residential 110V 20A circuits; 1 kW is probably the battery's charge rate after thermal losses). Allowing your outlets to be used to to charge EVs would drive up your electric bill by hundreds of dollars a year per outlet to a max $1500. So it's perfectly reasonably for a school or business to prohibit visitors charging EVs on their dime.
Or from the EV owner's perspective, if you can leech a 8 hours of electricity from your workplace and random stores and schools 5 days/week for a year, you'll have stolen about $350 worth of electricity by the end of the year. That's what this is about, not 5 cents. Saying it's about 5 cents is like saying a bank robber should go free because he was caught before he actually managed to steal any money.
Water (Score:5, Insightful)
If he filled up his thermos with water from the bathroom sink, would that be theft as well?
Re:Water (Score:5, Informative)
If a stranger was using my outdoor hose / spigot without asking, I might have something to say about it.
Re: (Score:3)
How about if that stranger's tax money helped pay for your house?
He was there to pick up his son (a student at the school) from tennis practice.
Re:Water (Score:4, Insightful)
If he filled up his thermos with water from the bathroom sink, would that be theft as well?
Damn right! Especially if it was a "whites only" sink.
Theft of services (Score:5, Interesting)
Does this mean anyone charging a laptop or cell phone will be charged with theft as well?
Yes, they certainly will. [newser.com]
Maybe (Score:3)
There is a type of resistance to authority, whose name escapes me at the moment, in which the person protesting follows every rule down to the most mundane detail as a way to stop productivity. It's hard to punish people for because they aren't actually breaking any rules, they're following ALL of them. Maybe the cop was protesting against the massively defective legal system by being this pedantic?
Nah, he was probably just taking out his frustration on one of them tree huggers. But a man can dream.
Re: (Score:3)
"Work to rule" is how I've heard it referenced in the past. Follow every rule exactly as it is written and watch the people who wrote them (or enforce them) squirm.
I agree with you, though, that this is probably not a case of that.
A theft is a theft (Score:5, Insightful)
But there should be a certain amount of common sense when enforcing the law. First did the school complain? If the school did not complain, did the officer ask the school if there was an issue? If there was an issue, I am sure the officer or the school could have approached the man and asked him to stop using their plug. They could even post a sign saying "please do not use our plugs to charge your devices." All of this would have been cheaper, more effective and infinitely less hostile than arresting the guy.
Don't expect the cop to know how much was stolen (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay. So WE all know it was just $0.05 after the fact, but put yourself in the place of the cop. Someone has a 1+ ton electrical machine plugged into an outlet. Just how much energy is being taken? Without knowing the power, the cop has no idea.
To the cop or average person, the electrical cord is analogous to a siphon.
Anyone caught siphoning gas from a government car into their own car is going to be arrested. This looks like the same thing to the cop.
Re: (Score:3)
The judgement of the responding officer was to file a report. Sensible enough. The arrest happened a week later.
RTFA. This opinion is not applicable.
Re: (Score:3)
The office made a report and charged him 11 days later.
I think he had ample time to determine what the current draw was in his "investigation".
Also, if the guy was there 20 mins or 4 hours, it still doesn't amount to 1$.
His son goes to soccer practice there, I have a very hard time imagining that the school asked to press charges.
And if the school did, I wonder who is more evil in this case, the officer or the school.
Re: (Score:3)
So it's OK for the cop to not have some understanding of the crime he is charging someone with?
No, he understands the crime he just does not know how serious it is. A reasonable DA, unless there is some other factors not mentioned, would drop the charges.
Re:Don't expect the cop to know how much was stole (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't hyperbolise.
Did the cop know or reasonably suspect that a theft was being committed? Yes.
Is he required to know exactly the local electricity rates, the rate of the consumption of the car, the time it was plugged it down to the nearest second, the cable losses, and the discount that the school gets on electricity supply before he can make an arrest? No.
And if you read the article, he didn't - he made a report, the arrest came when the facts came to light.
If a kid runs out of a shop chased by security with an armful of things, the cop doesn't need to itemise what he has and whether it reaches a certain figure. You arrest, then you investigate, which is the purpose of the arrest, and then if necessary you "escalate" the arrest to a formal charge.
Being arrested means NOTHING except detaining you on reasonable suspicion of a crime until it can be ascertained whether a crime has been committed or not.
Fact is, he didn't arrest him, that came later when they checked facts. And he can arrest him because he has more than a reasonable suspicion that he took something (a product or service) that didn't belong to him, without permission, and with the intention to permanently deprive the owner of it. MORE THAN reasonable. In that he could see him doing it first-hand and query him about it and get an admission ("Yeah, but it's only 5c!" is basically an admission that you did it if you have anywhere near a half-decent lawyer on the other side).
What part of this confuses you? He was arrested, after much consultation, for a crime he admits doing, that a policeman caught him doing, which the school did not give permission for him to do, petty though it is.
You know what? I bet if he'd asked the school and even said "Here's ten cents for the school charity, can I just plug in my car outside for a minute so I can get home?" they'd have told the police that it was authorised and there'd be no issue.
In Canada, user of parking lots are empowered. (Score:4, Insightful)
Do they arrest people for using block heaters too? (Score:3)
Inexcusable (Score:3)
I would award treble damages.
First a nickel... (Score:4, Funny)
Happened at the USA's fucked-up School District (Score:5, Informative)
Chamblee Middle School (http://www.chambleems.dekalb.k12.ga.us/) is part of the Dekalb County (Georgia) School System. DCSS is the most fucked-up school district in the USA. The former Superintendent was arrested for theft by taking, the replacement Superintendent abandoned her job and the current Superintendent is a political hack who lacks the qualifications required to hold a teacher's license. The former COO was just found guilty of racketeering. The DCSS school board was removed by the state Governor and the school system is currently on "Accredited Probation", the only school system in the country with that status.
Some recent news coverage of Dekalb County School System:
Court upholds law used to suspend DeKalb school board members: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/court-upholds-law-used-to-suspend-dekalb-school-bo/nb4Cx/ [ajc.com]
Ex-DeKalb school official found guilty of racketeering: http://www.11alive.com/news/article/313666/40/Verdict-reached-in-DeKalb-corruption-trial [11alive.com]
DeKalb teacher accused of beating special needs elementary student with stick: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/dekalb-teacher-accused-beating-special-needs-eleme/nb26M/ [wsbtv.com]
School superintendent negotiates settlement in expensive legal battle: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local-education/school-superintendent-negotiates-settlement-in-exp/nb89X/ [ajc.com]
DeKalb Schools placed on probation: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/dekalb-schools-placed-probation/nTYSp/ [wsbtv.com]
DeKalb’s graduation rate under the new state formula: 58.65% (Meaning that 42% of Dekalb Students DO NOT GRADUATE!) http://dekalbschoolwatch.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/dekalbs-graduation-rate-under-the-new-state-formula-58-65/ [wordpress.com]
Re:Theft (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
The law (as in common law) has been created and refined by courts over millennia to compensate for and (indirectly) prevent harm. Legislatures twist the law and abuse the respect people hold for it to control the populace.
Re: (Score:3)
During SXSW in Austin, there would be people who would pull up into driveways without permission, plug their travel trailers into outlets in the nearby house, use the nearby hose for their RV's water, and spend the night there. The homeowner would ask the people to leave, and the RV-ers would say some choice vulgarities. The police finally get called and then the trailer would get moved one driveway over. Without a posted tow away zone sign, the fact that a driveway would be a place to turn into a party
Re:Theft (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the water fountain was designed and installed for free water. And there are outlets in public places for free electricity to top off one’s phone. But I don’t think that was the case here. I see this as more akin to your next door neighbor running an extension line over to your home to borrow a little electricity – and failing to tell you. It might be for only a small amount but it is not good behavior. I think that a stern warning might have been better unless it was a chronic problem.
Re: (Score:3)
Notice that in this case the school did not press charges, implying that the school didn't mind the use, or at least judge
Re:Theft (Score:5, Interesting)
I see this as more akin to your next door neighbor running an extension line over to your home to borrow a little electricity â" and failing to tell you.
Reminds me of a buddy of mine who owned a business, and had contractors working on another building, decide to "use" his power without telling him. Well his solution was to send the company a bill labeled "asshole fee: $250" amazingly it was paid without a second though. I've heard of it happening in other places as well.
Re:Theft (Score:4, Informative)
If you read the TFA, you could find some more information even though this does not answer all of your questions but still give you some more perspective to the situation.
Sgt. Ford says the officer should have arrested Kamooneh on the spot. But he didn't. Instead, the officer filed a police report. Then 11 days passed, and two deputies showed up at his house in Decatur.
"They arrested me here at about eight o'clock at night," Kamooneh said.
Ford said he sought the arrest warrant after determining that school officials hadn't given Kamooneh permission to plug in his car. Ford said Chamblee Police did so without asking school officials if they wanted to prosecute the alleged theft of electricity.
Re:Theft (Score:4, Insightful)
If the EV owner has a child at the school, then he might very well have reasonable belief that he could use the electricity since he's technically paying for it. Hell, with public schools all people in the district are paying for the electric bill.
This is an issue we'll have to address, since no reasonable person thinks there's anything approaching criminal with someone plugging their phone in while waiting in a reception area. But plugging in the car outside while on school property and presumably with official business at the school is somehow different?
The only difference here is likely the scale of the draw, since an EV is going to draw significantly more power in total than a phone ever would.
Re:Theft? (Score:5, Interesting)
Other than the obviously boneheaded ignorance highlighted by the amounts involved, there needs to be more clarity on which public facilities are available to the public and which are reserved for the institution.
Re:Theft? (Score:5, Insightful)
They intentionally arrested him at 8p. A time when it's hard to get paperwork/representation/hearing, and thus chose that he be forced to jail overnight. Jail overnight! Not for drunken driving, not for violence or endangerment, for an ill-defined "theft". Why would that be a reasonable course of action? If the police picked up someone over a week later for a night in jail for a stolen *anything* with small value, everyone would likely see agenda/corruption driving the decision.
Would they have done that if I plugged in my laptop? My phone? Is this outlet only for maintenance's use? If so, why isn't it secured against this "theft", tampering, or adolescent darwin-award experimentation? If it's for student or community use, why is this a problem?
Is this school private or public? What rights does he have as a student's parent vs. a student vs. anyone else? Could we expect that if one of the faculty charged their phone there, that they too would spend a night in jail?
I suspect it's got a lot to do with politics and a regional dislike of environmentalists or liberals. I'd be very happy to learn otherwise, because the police selectively seeking punitive punishment for what materials goods you possess, and what they infer those goods mean about you is not a great direction for us to be heading.
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There are so many facts we do not know that it is hard to form a solid opinion about it. I do not have particular
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Too much to expect from some people in charge.
It is also too much to expect from journalists and Slashdot editors. 1KW/hr is a meaningless unit. It is clear from context that it is supposed to be just "1kw".
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They likely meant 1 kW*hr, a unit of energy.
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1kw is meaningless, without a time period.
It's a unit of power, not energy.
Re:Math is math (Score:4, Insightful)
if you get up to 1.81 jiggawatts, then you can choose your own time period
Re:Math is math (Score:4, Interesting)
1KW/hr is a meaningless unit.
I agree that it's completely wrong here, but it's not necessarily meaningless: you could legitimately say "The energy consumption was increasing at a rate of 1kW/hr"...
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the discussion is not around whether the activity would be legal or appropriate. It's more around whether the arrest is really the proper way to handle that infraction. It's akin to beheading someone for swearing in public.
Re:Good (Score:4, Informative)
I'm getting pretty tired of seeing extension cords snaking through parking lots and parking garages.
I don't think the issue here is just five cents; some places can't handle the capacity this puts on their systems or wiring, or perhaps they don't want the liability of you screwing up your car thanks to faulty wiring, and suing you for it. And hell, what if some bright person uses a cord that's too light of a gauge for the current, and ends up starting a fire or hurting someone?
Charging should be done where appropriate, not wherever anyone wants.
Saying this as an owner of a car that gets plugged in, I totally agree. Stealing power is stealing power. Common sense says if you aren't paying the bill on that outlet, you ask whoever is paying for it before you plug in, you don't assume its okay.
That's good for a couple of reasons. It avoids situations like this (and this isn't, by any means, the first time its happened), and it also gets the discussion about charging going... lots of places will tell you no problem. Places that don't may or may not have legitimate concerns about it. Considering how many times I've popped breakers with my charging cable, its entirely reasonable for places to say no. This isn't plugging in a cell phone charger, its plugging in a device that nearly maxes out a typical residential circuit.
The thing that is stupid about this article isn't that the police considered it theft (it absolutely, unequivocally is), but rather that the police arrested someone for the theft of something worth so little. I could *almost* see a justification if the guy was arrested on the spot because the officer didn't know the electricity was worth so little, but after a few days of "investigation", it should've been obvious that the amount falls well below the lower limit of what people are arrested for where theft is concerned.
IMO, the guy who plugged is car in is the jackass in this -- its because of people like him that people who actually *ask* run into problems.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm getting pretty tired of seeing extension cords snaking through parking lots and parking garages.
Why? How does it hurt you?
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So, you're okay with SPAM because the stealing of services is inconsequential?
The problem isn't the one guy, it is the one guy, times a factor of a couple thousand others, each getting their own free $.05 charge. Pretty soon you're talking thousands of dollars. Stealing is wrong, because it takes from others that which is neither earned or deserved. The amount doesn't matter on one case, but when you excuse the one case, and it becomes common, then you have to "pass a law" to stop it further.
It is much easi
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Are the only damages (or potential damages) the $0.05 in electricity?
What if that particular circuit was being used for other things, like running a pump to deal with some flooding, and plugging in the car was enough to blow the braker?
So the next time you run a red light should we lock you up for killing the children that could have been crossing the street at that intersection?
Re:Theft (Score:5, Insightful)
Here on Earth and not Planet Black and White, there is thing called, "correct response to a problem". Here on Earth, we handout measured punishments based on the actually crime committed and the damage done to the victim. The offender in this case stole 5 cents of electricity. Which, while technically is a crime, is not a large one and not one worth the time of a police officer. If, for some reason, it did come to the attention of a police officer, they should have issued a warning since that may have all that is needed. Having a state employee deal with this is a net loss to society and its people since the officer could be doing other things like chase murders and rapists.
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People die every day because another driver is going unsafe speeds on the road, but despite what all those deaths add up to it's only in the most extreme cases of reckless driving is anything more then a ticket given.
I agree with the sentiment that this is a behavior is one that should be curbed for countless good reasons. This though is clearly a case where an arrest is completely inappropriate. A citation would likely have stopped the offender with a net gain for law enforcement rather then the cost of an
Re:Theft (Score:5, Interesting)
If you wouldn't have done it at a random stranger's house, why would you do it at your children's school without asking?
The same reason I'd take a piss in the school restroom without asking, but not in yours.
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It isn't for the cop to decide which law to enforce or what line exists
Actually, to a degree it is. It's called "discretion", and if police officers didn't have it, the amount of laws on the books would render them ineffective and (even more) disliked by the community. Discretion can be abused, and laws should be written better, but the alternative to police discretion is a bunch of people over because they were going 65.001 MPH on a highway and making people into sex offenders for having a pee in the alley
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Q: Is this fellow related to the guy who DDoS'd the Koch brothers for 60 seconds?
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evseupgrade.com will upgrade your stock Leaf charger to 220V for $290. I have had zero problems with my upgraded unit.