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Government

Area 51 No Longer (Officially) a Secret 115

schnell writes "The first-ever declassified story of Area 51's origin is now available, thanks to a Freedom of Information Act filed years ago by George Washington University's National Security Archive. The (only lightly redacted) document is actually primarily a history of the U-2 and A-12 ("Oxcart") spy plane programs from the Cold War, but is remarkable for being the first-ever official unclassified acknowledgment of Area 51's purpose and its role in the program. Interesting tidbits include that the U-2 program was kicked off with a CIA check mailed personally to Lockheed Skunk Works chief Kelly Johnson for $1.25M; a U-2 was launched off an aircraft carrier to spy on French nuclear tests; and the U-2 delivery program itself was actually done under budget, a rarity for secret government programs then or now."
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Area 51 No Longer (Officially) a Secret

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  • by Thanshin ( 1188877 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @07:54AM (#44582549)

    The entire thing must be completely fake.

    I refuse to acknowledge as possible the finalization of a secret government program under budget.

  • by Impy the Impiuos Imp ( 442658 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @07:56AM (#44582565) Journal

    > "The (only lightly redacted)documentis actually primarily a history of
    > the U-2 and A-12 ("Oxcart") spy plane programs from the Cold War,"

    Of course it's only lightly redacted -- they made the whole thing up. Light redaction is how we know they're lying. Give it up feds! >:-(

    Give us the LGM BEM SAUCERS NAO!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @07:56AM (#44582577)

    And what has it been doing for the last 20 years? then again i didnt RTFA

    • by f3rret ( 1776822 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:22AM (#44582773)

      And what has it been doing for the last 20 years? then again i didnt RTFA

      F-117, B-2, remote sensing gear for arms control/inspection, The Predator and global hawk drones, NERVA Rockets and probably those fancy stealth modified Black Hawks from Neptune Spear and comms and radar gear.

      Just your average run-of-the-mill secret aerospace stuff.

      • by peragrin ( 659227 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:44AM (#44582955)

        Exactly. I bet there are current yet unheard of planes there still.

        A UFO is an unidentified flying object. The average person is an idiot and can't tell the difference between a fly and a bird under certain conditions.

        For me a couple of weeks ago I got caught in the middle of a coast guard search and rescue. They were dropping parachute flares for hours bright enough to light up miles and miles if open water. It took us 20 minutes to figure out they were parachute flares and not boats. You couldn't hear the planes unless they were close. It was surreal for a little while as they didn't fall very fast. And sometimes took sharp changes in course.

        • by darkstar949 ( 697933 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:01AM (#44583715)
          There are actually a lot of reports of the B-2 Spirt [wikipedia.org] being reported as Black Triangle UFOs [wikipedia.org] and there is some plausible evidence out there that there might be another experimental airframe out there that is triangular in shape.
          • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:46PM (#44586177)

            I think the point is that Flying Saucer/Alien nutters have never figured out that "UFO" is standard flight terminology for something in the sky which you don't know what it is. If you know it's an Alien Spaceship then it's not a UFO any more, and the secret documents wouldn't be using that term. They'd either flat out state it was Alien, or use some type of code word... but not "UFO".
            The Air Force figured out pretty quick that any time someone caught wind of one of their secret test flights they could smile and say "It wasn't a UFO". Which technically it wasn't, because they knew what it was- one of their test flights. Then they sit back and watch the Nutters go wild, using their denial as "proof" it really was an Alien Craft.

        • by pr0fessor ( 1940368 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:15AM (#44583845)

          I live near a military base and near the flight path of a municipal airport. I've seen plenty of aircraft that I can or can't recognize over my place {no aliens}. A couple months ago something came awfully close to the house in the late evening while I was kicked back on the deck couldn't say what it was {other than probably military} but it was dead silent until it passed by and startled me good. What ever it was it was moving fast and rattled the house.

          I think the only other time I've been startled like that is when the roof top AC for my office building got struck by lightening.

          • by f3rret ( 1776822 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @02:14PM (#44586481)

            In some cases if a plane is high enough and fast enough, the sound from it wont have time to travel that far ahead of it and thus it and the sound of it arrive pretty close together.

            I've seen it with fighter jets, it's completely silent, then just as the thing passes over or near you you get that awesome engine sound. Not a sonic boom, mind you, but still loud as fuck if they're low enough.

            • by pr0fessor ( 1940368 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @03:29PM (#44587489)

              I usually don't pay to much attention and to them cause they are usually a lot higher and a lot less noisy, but this one caught me by surprise.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @12:24PM (#44585223)

          The average person is an idiot and can't tell the difference between a fly and a bird under certain conditions.

          Pure anecdote, but here it goes. I worked with a guy who was by all observations above average intelligence; but a space-alien UFO believer. One day on a break we're looking up at the edge of the building, blocking out the Sun in the clear blue sky so you can see the pale blue right next to it. Any dust or insects in the air will also be back-lit by the Sun and may shine nicely.

          He goes, "see that? Those are high altitude UFOs flying in the upper atmosphere". I was flabbergasted. "Dude, they're insects and dust particles 30 feet (10 m) up. You can't establish perspective in this situation". IIRC, he realized the error of his ways and it was somewhat of a revelation to him. At least he was smart enough to be disabused of his foolish notions. Some people aren't.

  • by plopez ( 54068 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:10AM (#44582669) Journal

    If you look at the aircraft that came out of the skunk works you'll know what I mean. He and his organization came up with the P-38, the U-2, the C-130, and the SR-71; to name only a few achievements. It makes most people in tech look like little kiddies playing in a sandbox.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:42AM (#44582939)

      Just proves they were reverse engineering alien technology!

    • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:46AM (#44582967)
      The F-117A Stealth Fighter came after Johnson retired but he was still acting as a consultant to the company. I'm not sure how much he contributed to that design but that was another achievement for the Skunk Works team.
    • by stjobe ( 78285 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @09:04AM (#44583145) Homepage

      Indeed.

      I don't fancy the U-2 or C-130 much, but the P-38 and SR-71 are two of the most aesthetically pleasing aircraft ever to have graced the skies. In fact, the SR-71 is probably the most beautiful plane ever to have flown. That it's also still the current speed record holder (air-breathing manned aircraft, record set in 1976) despite being retired since 1998 is just icing on the cake.

      I'm quite grateful that I managed to squeeze in a trip to the Udvar-Hazy Center at Dulles last time I was in DC so I could get to see one in real life.

      • by jonwil ( 467024 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @09:42AM (#44583555)

        What I want to know is when the US government is going to declassify the REAL top speed of the SR-71. (that is, the fastest speed it was ever recorded as being flown at rather than the fastest speed it was rated to fly at, the fastest speed it was designed by Lockheed to fly at or the fastest speed the air force allowed its pilots to fly it at or the fastest speed the air force is willing to admit it flies at)

        • by stjobe ( 78285 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @11:27AM (#44584647) Homepage

          From wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:

          The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird holds the official Air Speed Record for a manned airbreathing jet aircraft with a speed of 3,530 km/h (2,193 mph). It was capable of taking off and landing unassisted on conventional runways. The record was set on 28 July 1976 by Eldon W. Joersz and George T. Morgan Jr. near Beale Air Force Base, California, US

          There's non-official (e.g. Brian Shul's book Sled Driver) reports of speeds up to Mach 3.5 (4,200 kph or 2,600 mph), but those aren't official. Different official and unofficial analyses of the materials and production techniques of the SR-71 strongly suggest that it was incapable of reaching much more than Mach 3.5 (among other things the pressure wave from the nose would enter the engine intake and unstart the engine; also the metal divider on the windshield got so hot at those speeds it threatened the integrity of the windshield).

          So yeah, official word would be great, but there is little doubt the SR-71 was capable of Mach 3.5 but not much more than that.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @11:36AM (#44584775)

          this can actually be calculated with the unclassified information about the SR-71. the extensible inlet cones on the engines only move forward so far.

          if you calculate the distance from the cone tip to the inlet wall, you can find the maximum mach angle before the shockwave enters the inlet. if a shockwave enters the inlet, the engine unstarts and stops producing thrust.

          the maximum Mach value before unstart is around 3.8 to 4.0, IIRC. assuming the skin of the aircraft can handle the heat (which it was designed to), then your max "speed" is determined by the speed of sound, directly proportional to the square root of the absolute temperature.

          at altitude, where the air is thin enough to reach those speeds, we're talking about ~2500mph. the engines had more than enough thrust to get there.

      • by filthpickle ( 1199927 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @11:21AM (#44584555)
        It is all, of course, just personal taste...but I think the U-2 is one of the prettiest planes ever made. The C-130 is just a truck...and trucks just look like trucks.
      • Back when I was living in Wichita, Kansas, one of the few nice things about the area was the Cosmosphere [cosmo.org], a shockingly out of place top-notch aerospace museum in nearby retirement town Hutchinson. It has a decommissioned SR-71 [sr-71.org] hanging from the ceiling in the lobby. I'm not by any means an aircraft geek, but even I have to stop and mumble "that is a gorgeous plane".

      • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @12:30PM (#44585309)

        the SR-71 is probably the most beautiful plane ever to have flown.

        The SR-71 is undeniably a gorgeous plane and I agree that the P-38 is striking as well. But for my money I love the look of the YF-23 if we are talking about jets and the P-51 Mustang if we are talking about prop planes. Just my own preferences of course. I like the U2 just because it is SO simple in design. Basically a powered glider. Simple, elegant and still functional to this day.

        • by stjobe ( 78285 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @06:42PM (#44589783) Homepage

          Oh, let's talk beautiful planes :)

          WWII-era: Me 262 takes the top spot with its shark-like fuselage and sleek lines, the P-38 as mentioned looks simultaneously both powerful and really, really graceful, the Westland Whirlwind is also gorgeously aggressive with its propellers sticking out in front, and of course the old stalwarts the Spitfire and the Mustang are magnificent designs. Then there's the striking utilitarianism of the Me-109 and the robust stubbiness of the early Fw-190, and the impressive gaping maw of the Typhoon. Also the P-48 Thunderbolt has a certain rotund charm, wouldn't you agree? :)

          Moving on to the cold war era, the SR-71 is the undisputed queen of the air, beautiful as can be and as much a work of art as it is a plane, but the B-58 Hustler is the epitome of a jet bomber, with the B-47 a close second. For fighters, the MiG-29 and MiG-31, the F-14 and F-15 are planes I grew up loving, and the Swedes did all right with their beautiful delta-wings, the sleek J-35 and the more angularly powerful J-37 (which incidentally was the only aircraft that ever managed to get a radar lock on a SR-71 - and they did it on numerous occasions).

          Current planes, well... I'm not a fan, really. Of the current crop of fighters, I guess the Swedes did it again with their J-39; I don't really like the F-22, F-35, Typhoon, or any of the Su-27 variants that seem to number in the dozens across Russia and China. It all seems to be drones, drones, drones anyway these days, and I sometimes long for a past where planes weren't designed by computers but by eye and hand.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:12AM (#44582683)

    so the national geographic channel documentary from a few years ago with interviews of several guys that worked there, and plenty of original fotage was just something I dreamt?

  • Space Aliens (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Are You Kidding ( 1734126 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:16AM (#44582725)
    So where is the part about the captured Space Aliens and their ship?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:20AM (#44582755)
    Ok, this makes more sense. On the radio this morning, they were going on like this was the first official acknowledgement of its existence, which I could have sworn has been acknowledged for many years now. But if this is the first official acknowledgement of its purpose, then yeah, that is new.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:27AM (#44582805)

    None of those "revelations" are news.

    The check being mailed to Kelly Johnson he mentioned in his biography.

    The U-2 launch off an aircraft carrier was public info too, as the pilot got a medal for that.

    The U-2 coming in under budget, likewise, not news.

  • by Xicor ( 2738029 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:27AM (#44582807)
    i believe they are forgetting to mention all the aliens theyve been testing on and keeping secret from us
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:28AM (#44582811)

    Prot from K-PAX contacted me trying to understand why our goverment makes up stories about Area-51. I explained best I could how when people report UFO's they are usually not taken serious. Prot informed me that K-PAXians think our goverments story about Area-51 is so funny that it became the top billing on their comedy shows.

  • Wait, what? (Score:4, Funny)

    by chinton ( 151403 ) <chinton001-slashdot.gmail@com> on Friday August 16, 2013 @08:49AM (#44582989) Journal
    You mean that Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction was fiction? Shocking. Does that mean we really did land on the Moon?
  • Skunkworks (Score:5, Interesting)

    by caseih ( 160668 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @09:17AM (#44583285)

    I highly recommend the memoir, "Skunkworks" by Ben Rich, who was Kelly Johnson's successor. He tells a great story of the building of the U-2 program, and also later projects including the SR-71 Blackbird, and the F-117 stealth fighter. Amazing stories.

    According to Ben Rich, it was Dick Chaney who ultimately got the SR-71 canceled, and instructed them to destroy all the plans, tooling, and parts for building the aircraft. Ostensibly this was to prevent any other nation from ever learning its secrets. And all this was because Chaney's cronies owned companies who made spy satellites. Even though a lot of analysts argued we still needed aircraft for some surveillance, they decided to go with satellites. Which of course other nations know where they are and when they go overhead. And since then the U-2 has still flown because there are missions that only an aircraft can perform.

    Even as recent as the gulf war (yes I'm old enough to consider 1991 as recent) these aging spy planes were pressed into action because they were all we had, and they performed their task very well. Have to admire how well the military does being yanked around so much by politics (and of course they dish the politics right back... sequester and all that). But with all the abuses revealed of late by Private Manning, perhaps it's only fitting that the military is in decline, along with the nation, and has had its toys taken away.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:20AM (#44583873)

      I believe it was the burning of the oil wells that brought back the use of the spy splanes as the satellites were unable to visually penetrate the smoke screen. But, the spy planes were able to fly under and capture imagery.

    • by filthpickle ( 1199927 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @11:29AM (#44584665)
      I remember a press conference with Colin Powell where he was asked what he thought of the SR-71 being cancelled. He said with an obvious 'I am answering your question even though I am not answering it ' smile that "that is a political question".
    • by k31bang ( 672440 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @04:20PM (#44588185) Homepage

      Even as recent as the gulf war (yes I'm old enough to consider 1991 as recent) these aging spy planes were pressed into action because they were all we had, and they performed their task very well. Have to admire how well the military does being yanked around so much by politics (and of course they dish the politics right back... sequester and all that). But with all the abuses revealed of late by Private Manning, perhaps it's only fitting that the military is in decline, along with the nation, and has had its toys taken away.

      How about as recent as this year. The U2s are still flying. [stripes.com]

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @09:18AM (#44583291)

    The "U-2 launched from aircraft carrier" factoid isn't a new one; that's one's been declassified for years (with pictures).

    As for programs coming in under-budget... I attribute that more to Kelly Johnson's personal integrity than anything else.

    As for what's happened since... Just remember Eisenhower's Farewall Address warnings about the MIC - perpetual projects to fight ethereal enemies ("Terror" is not a nation-state, organized malitia, and/or other "special-interest group") was/ continues to be inevitable. Too many jobs, fortunes, and re-election capsigns - not necessarily in that order - depend upon such.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @09:21AM (#44583333)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Sockatume ( 732728 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:38AM (#44584073)

      I don't think any state or nation has ever had an FOIA which trumped things like Secret classification or commercial priviledge. Where on Earth did you get the impression that it was supposed to provide access to things like NSA files?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @02:43PM (#44586925)

      People like Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning and Julian Asssange

      Snowden leaked evidence of wrongdoing. Manning leaked everything he could get his hands on, whether it showed wrongdoing or not. Assange is a middleman, he's an information broker whose only motivation is to make the US look bad (his words, not mine). The three are nothing alike and should not be referred to as if they are.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @09:29AM (#44583435)

    He would have told the French we were spying on their nuclear tests.

  • by k6mfw ( 1182893 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:14AM (#44583835)
    you have to be a US citizen work at Groom Lake. duh!
  • by sootman ( 158191 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:24AM (#44583913) Homepage Journal

    While everyone else is making jokes about aliens and the budget, I'm still trying to wrap my head around what it would take to launch a U2 (103-ft wingspan) [wikipedia.org] from a carrier. Besides the width, I didn't think it was optimized for short takesoffs, and it looks like the wings would snap off if you launched it with a catapult. [wikipedia.org]

    • by filthpickle ( 1199927 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @11:41AM (#44584827)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HMPMYL19E [youtube.com]

      Looks like landing is all about catching the tailhook, and planes are very strong for certain stress. The takeoffs look like maybe they put just enough power into the catapult to get it in the air? I can't tell if there is a catapult there...but I would assume there has to be.
      • by mcgrew ( 92797 ) * on Friday August 23, 2013 @11:57AM (#44656711) Homepage Journal

        They had U2s at Utapao when I was stationed there in 1974, and those things wouldn't need a catapult. Those crazy long wings make it so it doesn't need much room to take off, huge amounts of lift. As to landing, almost any plane landing on a carrier will need a tailhook.

        An SR71, now, I doubt they could launch from a boat. Not much wing but fantastically humungous engines. Their runways were about a mile long, they'd thunder down the runway with the ground shaking a mile away, do a wheelie, and take off straight up looking like a bottle rocket, the thing was gone in seconds.

        Those were at a base I nicknamed "Armageddon AFB" because its only purpose was to deploy if the Soviets attacked, there were hundreds of B-52s loaded with nuclear weapons waiting to take off. Google shows it almost empty now. As it's in the middle of nowhere it could possibly be the new "Area 51" (which is why I'll not name it, I don't want to make the deficit bigger by them moving to a new one). Everyone at that base had to have a top secret clearance when I was stationed there.

    • by Anonymous Psychopath ( 18031 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @12:02PM (#44585017) Homepage

      While everyone else is making jokes about aliens and the budget, I'm still trying to wrap my head around what it would take to launch a U2 (103-ft wingspan) [wikipedia.org] from a carrier. Besides the width, I didn't think it was optimized for short takesoffs, and it looks like the wings would snap off if you launched it with a catapult. [wikipedia.org]

      Considering that downward visibility is so piss-poor that landing it on a regular runway involves another pilot in a car driving along the runway talking the aircraft down, landing on an aircraft carrier must have been an... exhilarating experience.

    • by rubycodez ( 864176 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @12:15PM (#44585131)

      the width part not a problem (assuming pilot with brass cajones), the U2's had widths from 80' 2" to 104' 9".....C130 with 133' wingspans can land and take off from carriers.

    • by marcosdumay ( 620877 ) <marcosdumay AT gmail DOT com> on Friday August 16, 2013 @01:19PM (#44585825) Homepage Journal

      Well, bigger wings make the takeoffs shorter. I always tought the U2 was so big because it needed a huge operational range, but takeoff distance is at least a nice siede effect (if not the actual reason for them).

  • by macbeth66 ( 204889 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:34AM (#44584025)

    and the U-2 delivery program itself was actually done under budget, a rarity for secret government programs then or now."

    All of this stuff is obfuscated.

  • by darkain ( 749283 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:36AM (#44584057) Homepage
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16, 2013 @10:44AM (#44584123)

    It's still a coverup. The are hiding alien weather balloons.

  • by poity ( 465672 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @11:11AM (#44584435)

    The DoD just finished moving the UFOs to another location.

  • by Ken Broadfoot ( 3675 ) on Friday August 16, 2013 @12:48PM (#44585485) Homepage Journal

    All the aliens must have died. No need to keep it secret anymore...
    I don't know about you, but I miss them already... :(

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