Forrester: NSA Spying Could Cost Cloud $180B, But Probably Won't 136
itwbennett writes "Forrester's James Staten argues in a blog post that the U.S. cloud computing industry stands to lose as much as $180 billion, using the reasoning put forth by a well-circulated report from The Information Technology and Innovation Foundation that pegged potential losses closer to $35 billion. But Staten's real point is that when it comes down to it the cloud industry will likely not take much of a hit at all. Because as much as they voice their displeasure, turning back isn't really an option for businesses using the cloud."
"the cloud" is just mainframes again (Score:5, Insightful)
Two years to go (Score:5, Insightful)
It'll take about two years for this problem to disappear.
There's an enormous monetary incentive for cloud services to implement good privacy. Anyone who doesn't implement it will get their lunch eaten by someone who does.
There's already a massive exodus away from US based servers, both at home and abroad. People are thinking through the ramifications of having their sensitive information used as "incentives" to help business. Your client lists, sales information, costs and accounting - if any part of your local network is in the cloud, the US can rifle through it and trade the information to another company in return for help fighting terrorism. Many people will choose to believe that this is not happening, but what the heck - who can tell any more?
This is a self-correcting problem.
Mega has announced an encrypted E-mail service [mashable.com], the client software will be open for public inspection, and none of it will be hosted on US servers.
Google has admitted [businessspectator.com.au] in court that they don't think users have an expectation of privacy.
Which E-mail service would you rather use? The one from a sleazy convicted criminal, but with impenetrable security? Or the one from a company that always rifles through the contents, but promises to only do it for the better good?
Open Source Failure (Score:5, Insightful)
Why isn't there a "simple" host your own "data manager" for people that will be their "email, social, storage server"?
If opensource had a cause, that should be it,
Re:"the cloud" is just mainframes again (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"the cloud" is just mainframes again (Score:4, Insightful)
So is this your way of saying you wouldn't be interested in a mini-cloud in every university department and medium-sized business, or perhaps a personal cloud you could run at home? What about a mobile cloud to put in your pocket? Admittedly, they'll be rather bulky and brick-like at first, but some day they might be as compact and lightweight as, say, a deck of cards or a pocket notebook.
A mobile cloud to put in your pocket? If you're being satirical...kudos. If you're sincere...just...this [wikipedia.org]. The cloud is not a mystical place bits go to evolve...it is just a loose metaphor for the aggregate of the large collection of SANs, multi-hop networks, and various application layers sourced to pull a metic fuck-ton of bits from many locations scattered about in IRL back to your wetware's optical inputs when requested...
Re:Two years to go (Score:5, Insightful)
The real question is will US three letter agencies bloated top heavy with for profit corporate contractors, simply indulge themselves in industrial espionage, there are just hundreds of billions to be made. Will they see an opportunity for inside trading on shares again billions to be made and just a key press away on the cloud.
How many countries will be stupid enough to allow this to happen, not just in global markets but locally in their markets. How destructive could the US become in economic warfare, how destructive could all the for profit corporate contractors neck deep in US intelligence agencies in their quest for profits.
Seriously will they resist the temptation to strip mine other countries economies, buy up all the assets and leave everyone beholding to the US. Stop and really think about what can be fiscally done when you have free access to the business cloud, every business email, every business phone call and can hack into every business network. Total global financial control and can't US corporations be trusted with that, ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT.
Re:"the cloud" is just mainframes again (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the answer we have been telling people to keep ever since... well, always!! Businesses dropped common sense for price. Second on the list was usability, and last was security if it was thought about at all. While that would not have protected "Free" email accounts from being tapped so easily, it would have prevented the corporate espionage that the US has allegedly been involved in. Go ahead and Google search "nsa spying corporate espionage" if you want citation, you will find more links than you can read this week.
Third world countries may be able to plead ignorance, or perhaps being duped by various Governments and their agencies. The US, EU, UK, China, Russia, etc.. should all know better but chose to ignore people that work in the field.
Re:Two years to go (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a much more complex fix which will basically cause an upheaval in all major current world powers in terms of throwing out politicians. What most people are not looking at with the Snowden leak is that the NSA and Germany were very clearly working hand in hand, sharing data on people that someone didn't like. The same can be said about the US and UK, and the US and France, and the US and Spain, etc.. etc... What makes you believe that those connections are simply bi-directional? There is a lot of anecdotal evidence which should make you question how deep this rabbit hole really goes.
In many cases, the targets were people that did not agree with the politics in either country. Look at how effectively the US and Germany have shut down any and all political dissent. Media won't touch protesters except to mention the "unpatriotic criminals", police show up in mass at rallies and protests, protesters are detained harassed at the orders of higher ups. If it's illegal for the US to spy on citizens, how did they know an impromptu rally was happening in a certain location? The obvious answer is that someone else provided them data because that was a legal loophole.
It's not just the US that needs to consider removing the political class and going back to what Socrates said when he defined the Republic. That change is needed very much globally. In case you didn't read Plato's "The Republic" Socrates was very clear than in order for a Government to serve the people, the people and government should never allow a Political class. Duties of Representation need to be shared among community members, not held by people willing to leach off of society.
Re:Facinating... (Score:5, Insightful)
The harm caused by exposing these programs isn't a result of their exposure -- the programs are harmful in their own right, whether or not they are exposed.
Essentially you're arguing that if Warren Buffet murdered someone the government would be justified in keeping it a secret because exposing his crime would disrupt his economic contributions.