US Hacked Chinese University Network 330
An anonymous reader writes "Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reports that Tsinghua University, widely regarded as the mainland's top education and research institute, was the target of extensive hacking by U.S. spies this year, according to information leaked by Edward Snowden. The information also showed that the attacks on Tsinghua University were intensive and concerted efforts. In one single day of January, at least 63 computers and servers in Tsinghua University have been hacked by the NSA. The university is home to one of the mainland's six major backbone networks, the China Education and Research Network from where internet data from millions of Chinese citizens could be mined. Universities in Hong Kong and the mainland were revealed as targets of NSA's cyber-snooping activities last week when Snowden claimed the Chinese University of Hong Kong had been hacked."
The U.S. government is reportedly hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies as well for access to text messages. In related news, the U.S. has asked Hong Kong to extradite Snowden, and the petition to pardon him has met that 100,000 signature threshold required for an official response from the administration.
Re:This just proves Snowden is working for red Chi (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, that's it. Because the NSA and US government has the moral right to hack everybody and lie, even to their own citizens. Hypocrisy up to 9000.
**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Snowden a traitor ??
What about the government of the United States which has violated the Constitutions of the United States ???
Re:big effing news (Score:5, Insightful)
But only one nation rides around on a high horse openly accusing others of it all the time. And that nation just got caught doing the exact thing it accuses everyone else of doing, and doing it on the scale that many didn't even think possible.
Re:**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Communist China steals our IP and infiltrates every major American corporation.
Uh, oh... and NSA wanted the IP back, I see.
The NSA is there to protect American interests and maintain a technological and strategic edge over rivals.
If you call China a rival already, why do you complain when China hacks you?
This is the cost of remaining the sole superpower in the world. So people give up the semblance of privacy, in exchange for global dominance of American policy - a fair trade.
I wonder how much of this post is kidding? Poe's law at it's best.
Re:I was entirely sympathetic to Snowden (Score:5, Insightful)
We're not at war with China (Score:2, Insightful)
Freedom fries soundbites aside.
1) We're not at war with China
2) The claim that China is hacking critical infrastructure that could kill people makes no sense. Critical infrastructure should NOT be on the net at all, let alone on a net connected to China. So NSA likely lying.
3) If America is hacking China, and hacking can kill people, then NSA hacking can kill Chinese people.
4) So either the 'kill' claim is false, or NSA has declared war on China.
5) How is hacking the Chinese SMS databases some sort of counter attack against Chinese hackers?
6) See point 1.
"Which is a disaster, because it reduce the odds of the criminal actions of the Bush/Obama government being challenged, let alone punished."
If the government was behind General Alexanders NSA actions, then he would have to lie to them in Congress. Obama has hired an anti-surveillance FBI head, which suggests he's been lied to aswell. So the chances of getting the lying toerags prosecuted is as high as it always is.
Re:I am guessing that you have nothing to hide (Score:3, Insightful)
So you see no difference between a random internet poster and the most populous nation on earth, Communist China, which has nuclear weapons pointed at the United States, 3,000 front companies in the US conducting espionage, and which is actively encroaching upon the territory of its neighbors, some of which are US allies?
You see no way in which they might be approached differently?
Re:Of course they have the moral high ground (Score:4, Insightful)
against China, you couldn't even have this conversation on any Chinese network, that's why US government has the moral high ground against communist China.
Don't you find it disheartening at all that this is always questioned?
When it comes to how the nation treats its population you seldom see the U.S. compared to civilized nations.
If you use the worst nations in the world to justify what your government does then you will end up among the worst.
You can tell a lot of man by the people he compares himself to.
Re:Of course they have the moral high ground (Score:4, Insightful)
Blocking a conversation is obvious and the people know exactly where they stand...
Allowing the conversation to take place, while secretly monitoring it could be far worse, people could receive subtle comeback for expressing their views and have no idea why its happening.
It's a potential enemy, happy now? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:big effing news (Score:2, Insightful)
All the nations ride that high horse. We just don't get to see the Chinese/Russian/etc. propaganda about the evil West - only our propaganda about the evil East.
The 1970's is long gone (Score:4, Insightful)
The real question is - will the US Gov be prosecuted for their crimes ? At least these ones this guy Snowden made public
Buddy, the 1970's is long gone
The United States of America is no longer the United States of America of yesteryears
Our journalists no longer have the professional zeal as their peers back in the 70's
Our congress is filled with scoundrels that are as bad as the scoundrels in the White House
And most importantly, our judiciary system can no longer be as unbiased as before --- no judge would dare to rule against the man in the White House, no matter who he or she turns out to be
And our court system is no longer unb
Re:I was entirely sympathetic to Snowden (Score:1, Insightful)
Oh, you mean NOW. How about a Chinese general advocating a nuclear first strike policy against the United States in 2005? This is not a friendly nation. This is an expansionist, dare I say, imperialist, nation, that expects to go to (nuclear, see above) war over Taiwan, disputes territorial claims (violently) with almost all of its neighbors, including the ridiculously large south china sea "exclusive economic zone", using cheap currency to buy influence and soft-power through-out oil-rich Africa, supporting violet Maoist rebel movements in Asia, basically, acting like post-war US and doing everything the US was so heatedly condemned for.
So, what you're saying is, they are a dangerous enemy. Okay.
Re: **WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. He committed treason against those who, from many appearances, have committed treason (using the same definition).
Re:**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:5, Insightful)
So...why does the NSA help build back-doors into our products? This makes them less secure, not more so.
No, this is not about good guy versus bad guy. It's about two people fighting to see who gets to be your master.
Re:**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm favoring it as satire.
Re:It's a potential enemy, happy now? (Score:1, Insightful)
First, you are aware the US spends significantly more on military spending then any other nation right? IN fact they spend more then most of the world combined.
If US military spending is good why is Chinese military spending bad?
Next, are you aware of the US' long history of copying others designs and keeping wages low (you think the industrial revolution was from US know how and not piracy?)
You could always try and reverse the whole "offshoring" of your manufacturing base to them. I guess then the US corps wouldn't be able to import items for $0.04 and sell them to the american people for $10.
Lastly, you say the top leaders are growing. Do you have any facts/citations or is this just conjecture?
Re:**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:1, Insightful)
**WHO** is the real traitor ?
Snowden a traitor ??
What about the government of the United States which has violated the Constitutions of the United States ???
Let me see.....
Snowden took highly classified information, fled the country to a communist nation with nuclear weapons pointed at the United States and 3,000 front companies conducting espionage within its borders, from there he started off by revealing highly classified intelligence programs intended to safeguard American live, then went on to reveal details about the highly classified operations of an American ally. Up to this point some people could talk themselves into the position that he was performing some sort of service to Americans. He then proceeded to expose American intelligence operations with no direct impact on the constitutional rights of American citizens, and then fled extradition. He has caused both potential security and diplomatic problems for the US, and there may be significant economic fallout as well.
The US Congress, on the other hand, has passed various laws both empowering and regulating the behavior of the executive branch intelligence agencies. Many of those laws have been tested in courts and survived the challenge. The courts have overseen the actions of the intelligence agencies, as has Congress, and the executive branch. Accepting this is unpopular with some people, especially for those whose sole recognized authority is the pristine Constitution as written. They can't find the basis for these actions in their personal copy of the Constitution, and probably find current revelations objectionable under at least the 4th Amendment, maybe the 5th, and possibly others. Of course they are overlooking the President's Article II powers which have been recognized in courts, as well the Law of War and the differences between it and ordinary criminal law in terms of the constitution. Unable to recognize why the gap between current practice and their document from 1789 exists, the explanation becomes corruption and traitors instead of 220 years of jurisprudence, precedents that must be considered, and the collective experience of the nation and its judiciary in applying the Constitution, not to mention the Authorization for Use of Military Force the Congress passed which is legally a declaration of war. (And no, the fact that the conflict might last a long time doesn't change anything in that regard, nor does the fact that it is al Qaida.)
Although I believe that the national security apparatus in a democracy must be watched, and some of the revelations to be disquieting in light of what has been going on at the IRS, I don't find this a hard choice.
And you think that means they don't get spied on? (Score:5, Insightful)
Spying on foreign nations is the NSA's business. If you don't like that, then it is something to take up with your representitive, but I would have to ask why all of a sudden you have a problem with it, since that has ALWAYS been its business. The NSA is the US's signals intelligence agency. It's reason to be is to spy on the electronic communications of foreign powers.
Now, you can argue the US shouldn't spy at all if you like, but you do have to realise that would put the US at basically the only major nation that didn't. More or less all nations have intelligence agencies. The UK has the SIS (and the Security Service to an extent), France has the DGSE, Canada has the CSIS, Switzerland has the NDB, Finland has the SUPO, China has the MSS, Russia has the SVR (and realistically the FSB, FSO and GRU as well). Nations spy on each other. They have for a long, LONG time.
The flap with the NSA is that they have been spying on American citizens. That is something they are not supposed to do. While some countries, like China, have a unified intelligence apparatus (the MSS is their spy agency, secret police, all that jazz), the US purposely has divided agencies. The NSA, CIA, etc are not supposed to collect intelligence on Americans. That is only supposed to be done by law enforcement, and then only in compliance with court orders.
That the NSA would spy on other nations is not only unsurprising, it is the reason they exist.
In terms of China being an enemy, well you can't really think in those terms. Nations don't have friends and enemies so much as they have interests. As such other nations can align or not align with those interests to different degrees. If you mean an enemy as a nation they are at war with then no, but of course they US hasn't officially gone to war in a rather long time. However China is certainly a nation the US would have many reasons to watch. They are quite authoritarian, the military is heavily mixed up in their economy (I'm talking direct ownership of things), they have imperialistic ambitions and they have a lot of weapons. Thus it should not be surprising if the US has interest in watching them.
Also if you think the US is irrelevant, you need to wake up and have a look at world affairs. The US is an extremely influential country in a tremendous amount of ways. It is the only military superpower at the moment, it controls the world's reserve currency, it has the largest economy in the world, it exports culture (in the form of books, TV movies, video games, that kind of thing) like no other in history and so on. You might wish the US was not relevant, but it is, very much so.
Also it isn't small. Buy a globe. Or use a search engine. The US is the 4th largest country in the world by land area, and 3rd largest by population. If that is "too small" by your metric, then I don't want to know what you rank most countries (which are, by definition, much smaller).
Re:I am guessing that you have nothing to hide (Score:2, Insightful)
So do you have any policy recommendations for handing the 3,000 front companies that China has in the US for espionage, or their continuing efforts at hacking to both steal valuable data and establish control of systems for future use?
So far you seem to be advocating that the US simply be a target. That tends to not work out well in the long run.
Re:I am guessing that you have nothing to hide (Score:4, Insightful)
Give it a rest. The Soviet Union asked the US if they (the Soviet Union) could attack China with nuclear weapons in the 1960s to take away China's nuclear weapons and prevent them from getting more. Guess what the US said?
If you think the Japanese were ready to simply surrender, you have been getting bad history.
Let me know when China stops trying to take territory from Japan, the Philippines, India, Vietnam, and other neighbors, and then it will be easier to discuss security arrangements.
What do you call it when "tourists" travel to another nation explicitly to steal technology and import said technology when its against the law?
Let me think....
Chinese Espionage: The Risks Within U.S. Companies [forbes.com]
Chinese Espionage Campaign Targets U.S. Space Technology [bloomberg.com]
China’s Spies Are Catching Up [nytimes.com]
Re:**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:5, Insightful)
What kind of whistle blowing crusade is he on by revealing US espionage programs details to the Chinese and then seeking shelter with them? Whatever other things he may be doing, that part at least is treason.
The Chinese already know about the US espionage programs, they've been complaining about it for many years, you just haven't been listening. The US public on the other hand thinks the Chinese government unilaterally started a hacking war in the past year. Snowden is a patriot who's calling out those who would lead us into another war.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe this was just some kind of troll or satire but just in case it wasn't, look at how Russia treats its own citizens to know that is a lot of nonsense.
Russia merely isn't happy unless THEY are running the world
Just like us.
Re:big effing news (Score:5, Insightful)
Factually false. Neither Russia nor China practice such propaganda on scale anywhere near that which we get in US/UK sourced media.
Source: I'm fluent in russian and follow on some of their more reputable news agencies alongside outlets like al jazeera to offset the bias from following BBC, france24, euronews and reuters. While everyone tends to blame others for wrongdoing, the scale and depth of blame laid on others is massively greater in Western media. I would describe it as the "need to promote the illusion that we have a best country, government, political and economical system them anyone else". China, Russia et al do not have a need to promote this as their citizens are under no such illusion.
Re: **WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:**WHO** is the real traitor ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Last time I checked, politicians could still be voted out of office by citizens, and corporations couldn't hold office or vote.
This is true on paper... But voting requires an informed public, the government is becoming fully opposed to this. I wouldn't vote for any politician that had a hand in the NSA's actions... But I'm not allowed to know this. If I have no way of knowing if my rights are being abused, how much, or by whom, how am I supposed to vote in an educated manner?
Transparency is a necessary requirement to informed voting, and transparency is increasingly seeming anathema to our government.
Further, it is harder to be a responsible voter thanks to politicians using money and psychological marketing techniques instead of actually talking to us like understanding people. There is no debate in this country anymore. The only issues you ever get to hear about is "Did You Know John Smith Want to Kill Your Children?!".
The only point in which your correct, is the end result of this reasoning; we, sadly, very much have the government we deserve. Which is depressing, since I never thought I'd actively be ashamed of being American. I never really thought I could buy into the idea that our government is out to get us, and has nothing but general contempt for us. These statements are becoming more true feeling everyday. I'm beginning to sound like a tin-foil hat Libertarian, of late, which depresses me since I really can't stand most of their ideology (being a far left, progressive, social libertarian).
We really need a Roosevelt (zombie Teddy, or zombie Franklin, I choose you).
Re:And you think that means they don't get spied o (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would I feel better about China spying on me than I would about my own government spying on me?
I'm not American, and my outsider observation of American logic is this:
1. No nation should spy on their own civilians.
2. Other nations should never spy on Americans.
3. USA can spy on civilians of other nations.
i.e. as long as the Great American People are shielded from harm (or so they think), nobody really cares what the USA government does abroad.
So yes, nobody cares about what the USA government does to "them" if they're not Americans...
Replace "spy" by things like "illegal arrest", "unfair trial", "torture", whatever, and it still holds.
I didn't say it was logical or hypocrisy free. I'm actually surprised that apparently you're not aware of this.