Kenya Police: Our Fake Bomb Detectors Are Real 151
First time accepted submitter NF6X writes "Following the conviction of British conman James McCormick for selling fake bomb detectors which were in fact rebadged novelty golf ball divining rods, Nairobi police chief Benson Githinji stated to reporters that his department's fake bomb detectors are serviceable, and contributed towards a recent elimination of successful grenade attacks."
Works just fine (Score:5, Funny)
1) Give intern new shiny bomb detector
2) Send intern to walk around field for a while
3) Intern blows up
4) Success - bomb detected!
5) Added bonus - bomb removed!
Won't work. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Won't work. (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
Dear Mr Pot, ...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm looking for the first African Pope - it was a narrow margin last time - to start re-importing that mediaeval shit back into the "developed" world. Though I must admit that some days it looks like it's already taking over here too.
Re: (Score:2)
Just goes to show how badly proper education is needed there.
If only it were that simple. this is Africa - even the school-teachers believe that sort of thing.
Thabo Mbeki, educated in London, still goes around saying AIDS is not caused by a virus. Normal for sub-Saharan Africa, sadly.
Re: Won't work. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I could be mistaken but I don't think that's this section of Africa. I think that's Liberia, Ghana, and Nigeria area that does that. I am not, by any means, an expert on African culture but I think that's the area where it is more prevalent if not pretty much exclusive to. It's the only place on the planet where a once war criminal who was named General Butt Naked can manage to not go to prison (or be executed) and be a preacher today. I admit the previous sentence may not make much sense at initial viewing
Re: (Score:2)
Also don't they think that if you rape a baby you can cure your STDs?
The belief is actually that intercourse with a virgin cures AIDS. It's a really serious problem, not helped by the fact that it's been unofficially sanctioned by some government officials.
(Before this gets modded 'troll', ask any doctor who's worked in sub-Saharan Africa. The battle against AIDS there is largely a battle against superstition).
Re: (Score:2)
However, once you've detected all of the fake bombs then all of the remaining bombs must be real!
Elementary.
Re: (Score:2)
Didn't you read the summary? It's a fake bomb detector. It won't detect real bombs.
You'd think that it would be harder to detect fake bombs than real ones.
Re: (Score:3)
1) Give intern new shiny bomb detector
2) Send intern to walk around field for a while
3) Intern blows up
4) Success - bomb detected!
5) Added bonus - bomb removed!
That's the premise of the game Unexploded Cow [boardgamegeek.com], only instead of interns, it's cows with Mad Cow Disease.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is a great game. Doesn't take too long, it's fun, and it's simple.
Re: (Score:2)
And this guy still has his job? The police brass et all?
Police are not recruited for their scientific knowledge and the average education level in Kenya is likely lower than in the western world.
Re: (Score:2)
The police man has the gun and a bunch of buddies with guns. You're free to be the person to go tell him he's fired - in Kenya. Everything you say concerning the subject should either be tempered with or followed by that point - in Kenya. Kenya has come a long ways but they have a very long ways to go. Corruption, bribery, and the likes are still very common (to the point where how business gets done) but, as I said, they've really come a long ways. They're protecting game reserves, they're cooperating with
no testing I guess? (Score:3)
You'd think if you were buying some devices claiming to detect something-or-other, you would try out a specimen and see if it works. Did all of these countries he sold them to fail to do any testing on whether they worked?
Re:no testing I guess? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:no testing I guess? (Score:5, Funny)
Problem is confirmation bais is really easy to sell on people, so they honestly believe they did test it out and it worked.
You are only saying that because you want people to believe in confirmation bias.
Re: (Score:2)
And to confirm that bais is the proper way to spell bais.
Re: (Score:2)
They passed the bribe test successfully. What more do we need?
Re:no testing I guess? (Score:5, Insightful)
Police work in any country is more about the appearance of security than actual security. It doesn't matter if it works. It only matters if it keeps people calm.
I'm not advocating this as the way it should be, just the way it is. We'd all actually be safer if we switched to evidence based policing. But then the government couldn't get away with shit like the War on Drug Users.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I have season tickets to an NFL team. The stadium security staff "scans" everyone entering using hand-held devices (metal detectors?) that I believe to be fake.
They have been using these for a few years, I have never once seen anyone stopped after a scanning. No one is asked to empty pockets. The devices do not appear to omit any audible or visual feedback....even when going over cell phones, keys, or flasks of whiskey.
If it helps some people feel mo
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
They are not checking you, they are checking that the checkout staff are not in collusion with thieves.. I worked in a large DIY store once, and their stated theory was that 90% of the thieves were customers but that 90% of the value
Re: (Score:2)
This is an infamous practice of Fry's Electronics. I haven't been to one in some time, so I can only assume they still do it.
I am not sure if this is true or not, but I have heard that when they are doing that, they have no legal right to detain you from leaving the store, and you are more than welcome to simply leave without them checking the receipt. This could be a California thing, or maybe not even true at all. Whenever I used to leave Fry's, I would walk right past the door receipt checkers, when the
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
At BJ's/Sams/Costco, yes they can. Being membership clubs, it is on the agreement when you sign up and pay for membership.
disclaimer - the wife works at one of those
Re: (Score:2)
And if you violate the membership agreement, what can they do about it? Ask you to leave the premises immediately? But that's what you are trying to do anyway. Revoke your membership? Yes, they can certainly do that.
Re: (Score:2)
The membership costs money, and there's not a whole lot of costco stores, you can't necessarily just go to another one without traveling for hours. That's my case, anyway, and I live in the most populous state in the union.
With that said, when the line has been long and the receipt checkers slow, I have definitely just blown out of the costco. But it seems to me that as years have passed they have gotten better at hiring people who will actually get people out of the door.
Re: (Score:2)
It sort of starts with the meaning of security. To lock down or prevent movement is one definition of security. So a security guard walking by a client who does not move and is stretched out on the asphalt in the parking area need do nothing. The body would be even more secure if it were chained to a tree. The guard's duty is to observe and report so if he notices that the building is on fire he should note it in his report for end of shift.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
You'd think if you were buying some devices claiming to detect something-or-other, you would try out a specimen and see if it works. Did all of these countries he sold them to fail to do any testing on whether they worked?
You see they are not using them right. They are trying to detect 'real bombs', when clearly this is a 'fake bomb' detector!
bribery (Score:2)
You'd think if you were buying some devices claiming to detect something-or-other, you would try out a specimen and see if it works. Did all of these countries he sold them to fail to do any testing on whether they worked?
The inventor is being accused of bribery as well, paying "millions" of pounds to Iraqi politicians/leaders.
Set up a simple demo which "shows" the detector finding something so that they have plausible deniability or actually believe the "test", and then hand them a fat wad of cash so
Re: bribery (Score:2)
This thing does not have any electric or electronic part, it wont do any sound unless it hits against something
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
A follow-up poster replied "confirmation bias". I have to say "so what?"
To function as a bomb detector, all it has to do go bleep when it detects some kind of thing, used in some kind of bomb. Chemical compounds, object density, ferrous metal content, anything.
To be useful as a bomb detector, it doesn't even have to do that - it just has to help reinforce safe handling procedures for "unknown objects".
False positives don't matter - if you have a device that, one time, keeps one operator from doing somethi
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It works on the same principal as the collander attached to a photo copy machine with a paper with LIE in the scanner. As long as the subject believes it, the operator looks for the subjects reaction to it.
A normal tourisit or business traveler will pretty much ignore it and pass it off as yet another delay in boarding and nothing else. Others may display visable sweating, nervousness, etc and that is the indicator. A trained operator will look for the proper indicators. The fact the item is searchable
Re: (Score:2)
Bribes. Lots and lots of bribes. It isn't clear exactly how much was paid in bribes around the world as part of this scam, but as an example General al-Jabiri of Iraq was convicted of accepting "millions of dollars" in bribes in exchange for making his country's purchases.
This also explains why the authorities in some countries (e.g. Kenya, from TFA) are still swearing blind that they are authentic, and have been doing so since the scam was publicly denounced in 2010- the people responsible are still in pow
Other useful devices (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps they would have benefited more from a gullible idiot detector.
They are called eyes. And mine constantly detect them.
Re: (Score:3)
Perhaps they would have benefited more from a gullible idiot detector.
Good news. These devices are equally effective at that as they are at detecting bombs!
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps they would have benefited more from a gullible idiot detector.
I can sell you one of those...
Always wanted to detect fake bombs (Score:1)
Good! Glad to know someone out there has developed easy-to-use technology to detect if a bomb is fake! That'll certainly be a load off my mind whenever I see a shoddily-constructed homemade bomb. I'll be able to easily check to see if it's authentic or if it's just made by some poser looking to bite a popular style.
Reminiscent of Bagdad-Bob (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
He knew this because his tank detector was reading zero.
Thailand too.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thailand too.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, if there was such thing as a *reliable* portable bomb detector, you'd think US law enforcement would stop detonating people's "suspicious" laptops and grocery bags left on the street.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, if there was such thing as a *reliable* portable bomb detector, you'd think US law enforcement would stop detonating people's "suspicious" laptops and grocery bags left on the street.
Why would they do it? Do you know how much fun it is to blow things up AND get paid for it by the government? It seriously beats blowing things up and getting thrown into jail by the same government. I'm certain they have them but don't want to get rid of the fun.
Don't forget: (Score:2)
They also get hazardous duty pay and any overtime multiplies that rate.
And you get to blow thing s up.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, but it's only really fun if you already used the portable bomb detector to make sure it's not actually a real bomb and you may take out half the block...
Re: (Score:2)
About 2 years ago, when it came to light these bomb detectors were totally fake, the Thai government, who has bought a whole bunch of these came out insisting they were real and worked.
Wasn't there a story some time ago on this very site about the Iraqis doing exactly the same thing?
Re: (Score:2)
My hunch is there are no "real" portable bomb detectors (other than a trained dog), and government middle managers under pressure to buy bomb detectors bought the only thing on the market claiming to do that regardless of whether it worked or not. They knew it didn't work, but the politicians further up the chain didn't care, they just wanted to be able to say they'd purchased bomb detectors and people would be safe.
Yeah, about that...
http://www.science20.com/gerhard_adam/how_reliable_are_sniffing_dogs-95956 [science20.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Are those detectors at least useful for their original purpose? Detecting golf balls. Or is that a scam too?
Re: (Score:2)
They were novelty (i.e., joke) golfball detectors. They do nothing. They are a moulded plastic shell with an extendible radio aerial stuck on the front. And a sticker on the side. There is no power source, no wiring, no circuitry- nothing. The only thing in the device which even remotely resembles electronics was in the "programme cards" which McCormick distributed with them (which didn't come with the original novelty toy), which contained an RFID tag similar to the ones high-street shops use to prevent sh
Re: (Score:1)
Re:I just don't know. (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Nevermind the fact that if there were that much static around it might set off a bomb. But there's so many types of explosives, they wouldn't all react anywhere near the same electrically.
Re: (Score:2)
You think that a retractable antenna on a swivel would fail to meet the quality and reliability standards of the Western world? I would agree with you on that point. However, I would also say that the same thing would fail to meet the quality and reliability standards of anyone who has two or more brain cells on speaking terms with each other regardless of where they happen to live in this world.
Re:I just don't know. (Score:5, Interesting)
You know, about 15 years ago I worked in an electronics store. For an April fools joke I once stuck an antenna and an LED in a mains plug and put it in the shop window as a "wireless extension cord - 29.95" I got quite a few interested customers for this item. From what I have picked up from the coverage of the trial these devices are about as sophisticated as my five minute handywork.
I can build one and sell it to you for an inflation adjusted price. You could draw the conclusion from my post that I'm selling you a bunch of junk, but have you tested it? No.
Come to think of it, your post reminds me of the poor sods coming in for a 555 timer IC a 9V battery clip and a couple of passive components, convinced that they could build a cancer defeating device described in some quack book. No use in arguing with them but I felt sad after they'd gone, and bad for taking their money.
Re: (Score:2)
Come to think of it, your post reminds me of the poor sods coming in for a 555 timer IC a 9V battery clip and a couple of passive components, convinced that they could build a cancer defeating device described in some quack book.
I think you just described a cathodic protection system for cars.
Re: (Score:2)
There is no such thing as a portable bomb detector. It's pure fantasy at this point. Just because you wish for something very hard doesn't make it possible. Yes, those things do have some usefulness. You can use them as paperweights. They are very lousy doorstops.
Re: (Score:2)
No, there was absolutely no possibility that this device could work as a bomb detector. He got some plastic things from a toy shop, made a few changes to it. Total cost of device to him was about £5. He sold it for something like £10,000
"Security theatre" for real? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:"Security theatre" for real? (Score:5, Insightful)
They would be useful, even if fake, if terrorists thought them real and skipped attempts.
FBI and friends use lie detectors even though they are hogwash. I assume it's for the same reason: to scare people rather than use as a physical filter. Only the high-level strategists need know it doesn't work -- the plebe agents don't.
Re: (Score:1)
Oh definitely, long time ago I had to take a polygraph for a job and during the exam, I felt as if a game was being played in which I hadn't been informed as to the rules. They had issues with my results and scheduled a follow up exam. And during that time, I decided to research the polygraph. I did from time to time see references to a 'classified study' on their effectiveness, but never saw the study of course. However, if said study happened to match what I found out in publicly available literature, and
Props for Security Theater (Score:2)
I'm sure they work just as well as other Security Theater props like porno-scanners and face-recognition cameras. In fact, they probably have a lot lower rate of false positives.
Someone is sweating (Score:4, Insightful)
So a quadrotracker? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It could be. The earlier BBC report about the trial says that they were based on "novelty" golf ball detectors.
Great news for Nigerian princes! (Score:2, Funny)
If these things don't work, it's great news for all those Nigerian princes trying to move money - just route it through Kenya! No more depending on those greedy and overly-skeptical first-world emailers.
They are real, not fake (Score:1)
Oh, don't get me wrong- the 'bomb detectors' most certainly cannot detect anything to do with real bombs, but that was NEVER their purpose. They are intended to be a tool of the police-state. Justification for uniformed goons to stop you, interrogate you, and take you off to torture centres using the 'bomb detector' as an excuse.
The USA has torture facilities all across our planet. Other states are able to argue that if kidnap and torture is good enough for America, it most certainly is good enough for them
It works just fine..... (Score:2, Funny)
you're just not holding it right.
Jobs
Comment removed (Score:3)
Denial (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not just a river with sources in Kenya.
Here's how they work... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a way to create probable cause (Score:1)
They do work (Score:2)
The feedback of the indicator is open to interpretation. If you want to search a car, just use it and claim a positive reading. This gives you probable cause for a search. Same as K9 dogs. They are able to detect stuff, but that seems to be becoming merely an additional benefit.
Several stories about this scam... (Score:2)
...a while back at http://viewfromll2.com/ [viewfromll2.com]
as well as some other interesting articles if you're into lawyer stuff.
Lie Detenctors and [anything] sniffing Dogs (Score:2)
Law enforcement has no interest in verifiable accurate technology, those things only provide "proof." What they really want is plausible "probable cause," which allows them get around all those pesky rights that citizens seem to think they want.
Theory (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A pair of L-shaped brass rods, one in each hand, seems to work for 'dowsing'. They swing across each other over a target. But if you clamp the handles in a swivelling frame, they (unsurprisingly) swing only parallel.
I'm not saying dowsing works, but I will say that is not a useful test for whether dowsing works, because removing the human element is the opposite of what you would want to do. One idea of how dowsing could work (again, not saying it does) is some possibly subconscious awareness of an interaction between your EM field and that of "the planet" (cue hippie music) and therefore eliminating the human from the equation does not prove that dowsing does not work.
This is different; this does even less than that.
Re: (Score:2)
energy is conserved (Score:1)
you'd think that the fact that, as the BBC news item pointed out, the detectors needed no battery or other power supply might have been a first clue.
Why the Thai miliary also insists they work (Score:3)
This also occurred in Thailand a few years ago, and it's a very sad story of (military) politics triumphing over reason.
During the early years of the Thaksin Shinawatra government, Pornthip Rojanasunand [wikipedia.org], a very high-profile CSI official, claimed that there was corruption in the Thai police. She became something of a media personality, and a National Geographic documentary was even made of her. She became very popular with the Thai military, who are rivals with the police and eventually launched a coup to remove Thaksin from power. After the coup, the military government spent over $20 million on the "bomb detectors" (not including "commissions") for and gave them to patrols in the deep South to deal with Muslim insurgents.
The military junta eventually organized an election, which a Thaksin-friendly government won. During an anti-government protest, a lady died in an explosion, and many protestors lost limbs. There was some suspicion that the protestors were carrying IEDs which exploded prematurely. "Our team has used a GT200 substance detector and found no substance used in making bombs. We've already checked the clash scenes and the bodies and clothing of the injured victims," [nationmultimedia.com] Pornthip Rojanasunand said. She concluded that police tear-gas grenades used by the police caused the injuries and death. Despite evidence to the contrary [nationmultimedia.com]. The public trusted her and the forensic powers of the "bomb detectors," the Queen attended the funeral of the dead lady, and a military-appointed court soon replaced the elected government with one that supported the military.
Soon, evidence started accumulating the the "bomb detectors" weren't working in the South and civilians and low-level soldiers were dying as a result. Pornthip lended her public credibility to the devices. "Personally, I have never handled the device myself. But my people have used it and it is accurate every time. Long long time ago, people believed that the Earth is flat and anyone who said otherwise faced execution. Things which are not visible does not necessarily mean they do not exist. The devices are there and no one has the right to ban their use. I will continue to use it." [isranews.org]
The basic detector costs about $20,000, but additional "sensor cards" can be bought to "detect" things like dead bodies. The military-leaning government later killed many protestors in a large protest a few years ago. There were rumors that even more were killed and their bodies placed in containers and sunk off the coast. When containers was found sunk off the coast, Pornthip put a dead-body sensor card into her "bomb detector" and concluded that the containers didn't have dead bodies. Therefore, it wouldn't be cost effective to actually open one of the containers up to check and see.
In conclusion, people like Pornthip support such non-sense "bomb detectors" - not because they personally have to use them - but because they or people they have a vested interest in have supported the frauds in the past, and suddenly recanting and saying that they don't actually work would cause them to lose face.
Re: (Score:1)
I just detect them with my own built-in rod which isn't fake.
That works great until you get koro [wikipedia.org] and can't find it...
:p
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
omg, it's "faggot", "their"... oh fuckin' forget it. EAT A FUCKING DICTIONARY!
Re: (Score:2)
because people are in fact ...
Idiots.
FTFY. Also MILR.
Re: (Score:2)
Should have used the bomb detector on that joke.....
Re:Slashdot criminal activity... apk (Score:5, Funny)
STOP REPLYING TO THESE. The only reason I can see them is because you reply and then get modded up which brings the entire post into my view.
So true. Mod parent up!
Re: (Score:3)
Because /. has been very consistently anti-censorship (even on their own servers) over the years. It is a part of the corporate culture there and it is a wonderful part. It means we have to deal with this, the goat thing, and many other moronic things that have come and gone over the years. This policy has, for the most part, been well followed and I respect them for it though it does mean that we have to put up with silly shit like this.
What? Don't blame me. You asked why.