RIAA Goes After CNET For Media-Conversion Software 257
First time accepted submitter moj0joj0 writes "Two days after YouTube-MP3.org, a site that converts songs from music videos into MP3 files, was blocked from accessing YouTube, the RIAA has asked CNET to remove software from Download.com that performs a similar function. The RIAA focused its criticism on software found at Download.com called YouTubeDownloader. The organization also pointed out that there are many other similar applications available at the site, 'which can be used to steal content from CBS, which owns Download.com.' CNET's policy is that Download.com is not in any position to determine whether a piece of software is legal or not or whether it can be used for illegal activity." For a sufficiently broad definition of "steal," you could argue that all kinds of software (from word processors to graphics programs to security analysis tools) could be implicated.
Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:4, Insightful)
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If it's just the word "Steal", it'd be easy .... (Score:2)
I mean, MAFIAA is aiming not on the word "STEAL", but actually, they are aiming to curtain almost _EVERYTHING_ that we do online (and offline)
I mean, what if I come across a very stunning picture in some site somewhere and I dl it and make it my desktop screen background - it's legally not 'stealing', just borrowing, and we do that all the time
What MAFIAA wants is an online world where no one can do nothing - yes, that's what they are after
I am _really_REALLY_ sick of MAFIAA !!
Re:If it's just the word "Steal", it'd be easy ... (Score:4, Funny)
where no one can do nothing
So everyone must do something?
Re:If it's just the word "Steal", it'd be easy ... (Score:5, Funny)
I don't get the anger.
we have the representatives they have selected for us. and there are products they have released for us to consume, plus even given us a few ways to consume them.
I think we should just trust our corporations since they could not have gotton as far as they have if they didn't know what was best for us.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ads
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably not. I actually have a non-infringing (I think) use for these tools. My old Mac G5 has no Flash updates anymore - it's not supported. Most of the time it doesn't matter, but every once in a while I have to download the video so that I can view it with VLC.
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to download the video so that I can view it with VLC.
I'm fairly confident that VLC can accept a Youtube URL and stream/play the video without downloading as a separate step.
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Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Yes. I think we're kind of famous for that.
Most of our "fair use" has been decided by the courts, not laid out explicitly in the law itself. It's impossible to know what will be OK and what will be infringing. I find that to be a burden that an ordinary citizen should not have to bear. I'd rather the law be simpler - or even better, become a commercial-only imposition.
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:4, Interesting)
I always download songs because I've seen instances where the record company yanked the song off youtube (example: most of Prince's songs). I learned to backup my favorite 70s/80s-era songs so that, if I can no longer access them via youtube, I can still hear them when I like.
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I always download songs because I've seen instances where the record company yanked the song off youtube (example: most of Prince's songs). I learned to backup my favorite 70s/80s-era songs so that, if I can no longer access them via youtube, I can still hear them when I like.
Yes, the MAFIAA is constantly removing stuff from Youtube so if you find something you like, make a backup to your private harddisk right away. I learned this the hard way, having my favorites list go empty because things got removed.
Oh, and when the stupid record labels decide to release a new interesting song as a Youtube video only, you need to be able to convert it to MP3 for listening offline.
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Funny)
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They're dorks. What do you expect?
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't these dorks know there is not much difference between streaming and downloading.
Ads. Data caps. Access restriction. Post-upload revisions. Censorship. If you can equate streaming to downloading, you can equate licensing to ownership.
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(Except nobody bothers with the "Burn" part anymore...)
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It had been about 7 years since I had last downloaded a commercially available MP3 or movie without paying for it when SOPA/PIPA got trotted out and they started clamping down on pirate bay. So I started subscribing to a VPN service. I was being really stingy with what I listened to or watched. Now that I started pirating again, I've come across so much music and TV shows that I had missed out on
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Funny)
They don't seem to understand that people will just create new software to keep downloaded data from being deleted.
They need to ban programming languages.
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:4, Interesting)
The intent of visiting youTube is to stream videos. The intent of this software is to download (and presumably keep a permanent copy of) videos.
Since the RIAA only has rights to a relatively small number of the videos on youTube, and we have no idea whether all the other millions of users it's hard to make the case that the intent of this software is music piracy. If youTube has explicit terms about downloading rather than streaming, then youTube might be able to argue tortuous interference with contract or something but the RIAA has no standing.
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Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:4, Interesting)
The organization also pointed out that there are many other similar applications available at the site, 'which can be used to steal content from CBS, which owns Download.com.'
Yeah, CBS is also going to be real happy about this.
Now even less people will download their adware/malware [boingboing.net] infected wrappers. That can't be good for Download.com's business model.
It's one thing for the RIAA to go after little kids for downloading music, it's another thing entirely to go after its own members (but then again, CBS is probably just a member of MPAA, not RIAA, so may be I just answered my own question).
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Bingo. They've overstepped their jurisdiction, and need to be placed back in their box.
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bingo. They've overstepped their jurisdiction, and need to be placed back in their box.
The RIAA doesn't have any jurisdiction. They're basically a gang like the bloods or the crips with a different agenda and larger bankroll.
Re:Stream, Download, what's the difference... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nonsense. The RIAA has often stated that it represents the copyright interests of signed artists to its group member; now, many people have pointed out that this is false, but from a quasi-political / legal aspect, we prefer the guillotine's blade to be nice and sharp before offing a tyrant.
The RIAA has, for a time, had a semi-legitimate case, but has seen to not 'get with the times,' preferring an outdated business model that promotes the very problem it seeks to resolve through legislation. What more, it's continued advances into other, protected sectors is angering a great many people (both at the top, and closer to the middle). Now, the people who have count themselves as friends of the RIAA will remain as such, provided they continue to be furnished with the appropriate bribes; but there will come a time when this will end, as all things must, and the populace will be left with nothing but a devastated legal landscape. At its heart, the RIAA is a paranoid baker, who bids his customers to eat their bread in his kitchen, where he can ensure not a crumb escapes to the outside world; customers are required to sign a lengthy legal document, entreating them not to share their bread with anyone else; special precautions, such as searching his customer's persons to prevent them sneaking off with a loaf, and a search of all nearby bakeries, whose bread is confiscated if it is deemed too similar to his own; finally, for fear of his customers and non-customers alike, enjoying their grainy treats in the quiet of their homes, he proposes to search them on demand as well.
Cooks have long dealt with issues of recipes (copyright) for centuries.
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The RIAA has often stated that it represents the copyright interests of signed artists to its group member; now, many people have pointed out that this is false, but from a quasi-political / legal aspect
It's all because of POLITICIANS
The MAFIAA has gone as far as they could go because they got the support of the FUCKING POLITICIANS !!
Without those FUCKING POLITICIANS the MAFIAA would have closed shop a long long time ago !!
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This box. [antoniohernandez.es]
How to scare your neighbors (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:How to scare your neighbors (Score:5, Interesting)
I explained it to my 84 year old father and he said "Hail Hitler!"
He got it..
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Not many of them are aware of the composition of the air they breathe, but change it too much, and they will express a sudden interest in such things.
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In Other News... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In Other News... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In Other News... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Next time you check, your audio system only gets to 4 instead of the highest 10 volume level!
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I'm waiting for them to require headphones that have a special license chip in them. Everyone must have their own set of headphones and no listeners past the license limit for a source. Give it time.
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What's an ffmpeg [libav.org]?
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Draw me a line (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd like to know where the RIAA/MPAA draw the line. Does skipping ads on radio and TV count as theft? How about just channel surfing during the ad-break, or getting up and making some coffee? Or just hitting "mute"?
Does remembering a song in my head count as ripping them off if I don't also own the CD? If I go to a friend's house is it wrong to listen to or borrow their CDs and DVDs, or watch their cable TV?
I can buy a portable DVD player and take my discs with me. How is it any different if I rip the discs to watch on my phone or laptop. If I own a DVD but can't be bothered to rip it to my phone is it okay to download a .torrent version? The MPAA's members put all sorts of DRM crap on the disc to make ripping harder, making the download more attractive.
If I buy a DRM locked song and the seller turns off their DRM servers so I can't play it any more is downloading an MP3 from The Pirate Bay morally acceptable?
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I'd like to know where the RIAA/MPAA draw the line
Multiply the total amount of money in circulation by 5, and if the profit is less than that figure, it is a problem for the **AA.
Re:Draw me a line (Score:5, Insightful)
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They can't and won't draw you a line. Drawing a line would state that, at some point in history, nothing beyond the current technology could do us more or less harm. That is exactly what they don't to have happen. By keeping their position grey, and constantly venting that new tech. is further depriving them profits, they can't be held to any single position of appeasement.
With this new found argument of 'site scripts' for conversion or 'track grabbing', they might as well say wget and the entire TCP/IP sta
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No one NEEDS the content that the RIAA is trying to protect. A few months boycott and they would be gone for good (and we'd all have a lot more free time on our hands). They have annoyed almost their entire customer base - if only there were a way to leverage this into collective action.
Re:Draw me a line (Score:5, Insightful)
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... getting up and making some coffee?
The next generation of TVs will have a government-mandated camera in them - to protect children from hearing curses. This will be used to monitor viewers during commercial breaks. If anyone is absent during an ad, the show will not resume.
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Does remembering a song in my head count as ripping them off if I don't also own the CD?
Judging by their action, I assume most of them already had a lobotomy. So very likely they thought that would be the case.
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How about evading web paywalls by refusing or deleting cookies?
I think it's an interesting case since on some sites all that means is you are actually downloading less data. New York Times and The Economist provide good examples of this.
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Anything that doesn't get them more money, right or wrong, deserved or not, is "theft" in their eyes.
Remember when they said selling used CD's was theft, and they were owed a cut of used sales?
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Invalid or valid argument? (Score:2)
"CNET's policy is that Download.com is not in any position to determine whether a piece of software is legal or not or whether it can be used for illegal activity." --- It seems pretty obvious that a program designed to download youtube videos is infringing on copyright. Though I guess you could argue said program is no different than a VCR (which the SCOTUS ruled can legally capture video and store it).
Re:Invalid or valid argument? (Score:5, Insightful)
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User videos are copyrighted at the moment of creation.
Not that I care..... I download a ton of stuff from youtube so I can play it back at 2x speed in VLC Player (mostly news programs and lectures).
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Is it fair use for me to download a Flash video so that I can view it with VLC on my non-Flash equipped computer or device? I certainly think it is.
Re:Invalid or valid argument? (Score:5, Insightful)
Though I guess you could argue said program is no different than a VCR (which the SCOTUS ruled can legally capture video and store it).
...which is likely why the RIAA is asking and whining, instead of issuing takedown notices and sending official threats of litigation.
The absolute last thing they'd ever want is for a case like this to end up making video/audio ripping off a stream the equivalent of using a VCR to tape a show.
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It seems pretty obvious that a program designed to download youtube videos is infringing on copyright.
Some of the content on youtube you are explicitly permitted to use. Some videos are in the public domain, others are licensed for use with creative commons.
Though I guess you could argue said program is no different than a VCR
You could rightly argue that also.
"can be used for illegal activity" (Score:5, Interesting)
Holy shit. How much software can NOT be used for illegal activity?
$ ls /usr/bin /bin /usr/local/bin | wc -l
2695
Betting all of that could be "used for illegal activity". Never mind that there are maybe half a dozen media format conversion tools in that list, but check THIS out - there's a tool called g++. With it, I can CREATE tools that could be used for illegal activity, such as media format conversion. It's a meta-illegal tool. Man... posting anonymously, so they don't come after me.
Re:"can be used for illegal activity" (Score:5, Funny)
Not just software. Did you know that all x86 and x86-64 processors contain an instruction called MOV? Despite the innocuous name, this instruction does not in fact MOVE data from one place from another. Rather, it COPIES the data, leaving it in both places -- and that's not the only instruction which does so, just the most common. The ARM processors and even the POWER processors all have similar instructions. The whole industry is involved in a massive conspiracy to violate the copyrights of the xxAAs.
Dear RIAA (Score:5, Informative)
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If I ever get a "Pay us $5000 or else" extortion letter from them, that's exactly the response they will get.
On second thought..... I don't want to waste 50 cents.
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I had a couple of these. My reply was as follows:
Sirs,
I refer you to the response of Private Eye Magazine in Arkell -v- Pressdram (1971):
Fuck off.
Sincerely, ..
any programming language thanks to the OS (Score:2)
Any program language that can be used to drive TCP traffic is capable of this.
The functionality is provided by the libraries that come with the OS. So they should ban the OS's.
Copyright infringement is not theft (Score:5, Interesting)
I've always hated theft. It is one of the 10 commandments. I grew up learning to hate it because people stole from me. When someone steals your bike, your wallet, or other personal possessions, it hurts. You are now deprived of it, while someone else is selling it for $10 of crack. Stealing hurts innocent people. I continue to hate stealing.
But, if I paint my bike blue, and my next door neighbor, seeing that, paints his bike blue, he didn't steal my bike. I can call him a "copy cat". But, I still get to ride my bike. I just won't be the only one on the block with a blue bike.
Yes, we all know the theory of lost sales. But, we all know that copying information does not mean that the person would of purchased that copy of that information if they had not of copied it against the will of someone claiming ownership of that information.
Thus, I lose respect for anyone who tries to insist that copying information is a violation of the 10 commands along with "though shall not kill" and "though shell not commit adultery". Our laws do not support that claim, and we should do more to discredit those who make it.
Don't get me wrong. I do not advocate copyright infringement. I am just tired of hearing people try to confuse people into thinking that copying information is hurting people like stealing real physical property does and is a violation of one of the 10 commandments.
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Their use of the word "steal" is, unfortunately, deliberately done. Sounds better than "copyright infringement", to which people would say "meh". "Steal" is such a strong word, people now start using "Steal" for pretty much everything nowadays.
Hell, if they can somehow use the word "rape", "murder", etc, they will. For example: "downloading is raping the artists (digitally)", "by downloading, you are indirectly murdering the artist's children by depraving them of basic necessity".
I find it quite funny when
Re:Copyright infringement is not theft (Score:4, Interesting)
Copyright infringement DOES hurt people.
There are two parts to "stealing" and I noticed you only concentrated one half the issue. While you may not deprive someone of their property, you do gain something.
Really? - Copyright holders are getting HURT because I gain a copy, despite that it in no way deprives them of the original? - How do you figure?
Oh, and please don't insult everybody's intelligence by stating that the copy represents a value, like a lost sale or similar. That would require an ironclad certainty that the copy is used by someone that with 100% certainty would have paid for it if it wasn't available for free. If the copy is used by a freeloader who would never pay for it, or if a legal sale is unavailable, the argument is null and void. As most illegal filesharing is done by people for exactly these two reasons (it's free or unavailable for purchase), it cannot be called stealing or theft as there's no loss.
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Re:Sound recording? (Score:5, Funny)
>RIAA, would you like to sue Microsoft for having software that ships in Windows that can record audio-out and save it to a wav/mp3 file?
The RIAA will not be satisfied until they successfully make illegal 3.5mm stereo patch cords that can go from audio-out to audio-in.
--
BMO
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>modded funny
I guess someone totally missed all the discussion by the 'content providers" of the "analog hole" a few years ago, and efforts to have the entire chain of audio "untappable" all the way to the speakers.
People have such short memories.
--
BMO
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The content is NOT originated by youtube, so it's very unclear that that they have any moral authority to restrict its distribution.
The content is distributed through their servers and they most certainly do have moral authority to restrict access to those servers. Moreso, they are in no way restricting distribution, you can distribute your content through any number of other channels.
But I WANT people to download and share my Youtube (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a Youtube content creator. I want people to download and share my Youtube content. Does this mean my right to share stuff should be trumped by a vague notion of piracy?
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You probably gave up your rights when you uploaded the content. Doesn't matter what you want (sadly).
Re:But I WANT people to download and share my Yout (Score:5, Informative)
You probably gave up your rights when you uploaded the content. Doesn't matter what you want (sadly).
Au contraire...
http://www.youtube.com/t/creative_commons [youtube.com]
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That depends on how much money you can spend on bribes for politicians.
let CNET burn (Score:2)
Video downloaders, etc. (Score:3)
There must be a dozen or more Firefox plugins that enable downloading of flash videos. There are even plugins that enable batch downloading of entire Youtube playlists. They are very convenient for watching hi-res versions of videos when you don't have the bandwidth to reliably stream them.
Hello Pot (Score:5, Funny)
Hello Pot, meet Barbra Streisand.
Simple enough then (Score:4, Insightful)
The RIAA members should stop uploading of any content to YouTube which they do not wish to be copied.
Different issue (Score:2)
A private company can limit access to their servers which is what YouTube is doing. This is very different than conversion software which translates files on a person's computer to another format for use in another program. I believe that courts have already ruled that format shifting is legal and maybe even fair use.
Thanks (Score:2)
Thanks MPAA, I hadn't heard of this software, so I just grabbed a copy. Works great!
Posting it to my server now.
Hands illegal (Score:2)
If the people in the RIAA were running a brick and morter store association, they would be demanding legislation declaring hands illegal because hands can be used to steal merchandise from stores.
FTRIAA and the horse it rode in on.
DCMA RIAA (Score:2)
Someone needs to DCMA RIAA for once. Find a copyright violation on RIAA and release legal DMCA hell that they did order by demanding laws. That can be used against RIAA and MPAA. As they are using them against people today.
all software od illegal now (Score:2)
CNET? RIAA's buddy? (Score:2)
I'm surprised they would turn on CNET
good thing we have the 2th amendment (Score:2)
You can take it from my cold dead hands
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I believe only the dead have seen the end of this nonsense.