Man Barred From Being Alone With Daughter After Informing Police of Porn On PC 777
First time accepted submitter robably writes "A man who informed police when he found child abuse images on his computer has not been allowed to be alone with his daughter for four months. Nigel Robinson from Hull said he called police after trying to download music but instead finding pornographic images on his laptop last November. As a result social services said he 'should not have unsupervised access with his own or other children.'"
Bottom line: never cooperate with the authorities (Score:5, Insightful)
That is all.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Funny)
The episode comes to a close immedately as the cops cuff her on the spot without question and take her in.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Interesting)
- Visit youtube
- Search "Don't talk to police"
Both a lawyer and a policeman explain why you should never volunteer information.
- Practice your Miranda rights (remain silent).
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:4, Interesting)
Is this is another case of bureaucracy at it's finest?
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Informative)
They do exist; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales [wikipedia.org]
The only caveat is that if you rely on some innocent defence in court that you might reasonably have given during questioning but did not, the judge or jury /might/ assume that you made up the defence.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Informative)
Straight from the horse's mouth: Don't Talk to Police [youtube.com].
The first half is a defense attorney, the second half is a cop. Both speakers make it very clear -- do not talk to police without a lawyer present. Some will try to screw you to boost their numbers, others will screw you by accident, but either way you get screwed. Cops have a very specific job to do, and that job does not involve looking out for your personal best interests. Talk to a lawyer instead - they are legally required to do what's best for you.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that retaining a lawyer can be expensive whereas reporting a crime to a police officer is relatively free.
The article doesn't make it clear whether he went to his computer to perform some task and then found pr0n or if he was performing some task and was then inundated with pr0n. If he was trying download music from an sketchy source (e.g. bobsultrasuperlegalandfreemp3s.com) verses amazon.com or itunes, he was probably out to pirate music and those sites are usually filled with viruses. Did he deserve to get pwned? No, but that's besides the point.
It's disparaging that a man who hasn't even been charged is basically being treated like a criminal. I guess when it comes to kids, it's guilty until proven innocent to everyone's satisfaction.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Interesting)
I am indigent, I will only speak to a court appointed public defender, do NOT do what the first one tells you is in you own best interest! Remember the cops and the public defender work for the same entity, you have the right to fire one after the other with the mantra He does not represent my interests, keep doing this until they are forced either to drop the charges or retain a private attorney for you.
And remember, some states require that if you invoke the right to a speedy trial they have X number of days to comply or drop the charges (the docket is SO full of killers and rapists, that unless some prosecutor has a hard dick for you, they'll drop).
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Insightful)
Then the cops are doing the wrong job. The CORRECT job description for a cop is to ensure that society (and, by extension, the individuals within it) suffer least harm on aggregate. Clearly, it is impossible to follow a least-harm doctrine if a cop is only trying to maximize their "clean-up" rate by arresting the innocent and allowing the guilty to go free.
ANY police force, doesn't matter where, doesn't matter when, that follows a doctrine of "look good" rather than "DO good" is a police force society is better off without. The problem is never with authority or government, the problem is with ILLUSION of authority and ILLUSION of government. The failure to tell reality from illusion is why corruption exists at all.
Posession is illegal (Score:4, Informative)
Posession of child porn is illegal. It doesn't matter how you got it, having it is illegal.
So, if you want to get someone in legal hot water, just plant some on their property. Or anonymously text it to their phone when they are somewhere nice and public that it might be seen when they look at it. Just make sure YOU don't get caught with the stuff you are planting on your victim (since distribution is also illegal).
Re:Posession is illegal (Score:5, Interesting)
So what we're saying here is, if you happen to come across it, just delete it and keep your mouth shut.
Don't try to alert authorities to the source of the illegal material. In fact, don't talk to the authorities at all. Let them do their jobs in ignorance . . . because obviously that's what they deserve.
Then, when they ask why nobody is reporting on crimes, we can reply "because then you fuckers ruin our lives!!"
Re:Posession is illegal (Score:5, Informative)
Not reporting a crime can be illegal too. I have a friend who got 6 months for merely firing a client who was engaged in illegal activities rather than turning her in.
Re:Posession is illegal (Score:5, Funny)
I so wish....
I wish we could just email every politician in Congress a file containing Child Porn and then have them all arrested. But sadly, laws only work that way against the little guy.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know how anyone in this day and age could think it was a good idea to have more dealing with the police those that are forced on you.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Interesting)
Obviously not, in this case. In this case, he wasn't being investigated, and now, he won't have the defense of a real investigation. Just a smear on his name for the rest of his life.
Since we never know when this kind of bullshit will hit us, it's safer to not cooperate, and to avoid the authorities at all costs. Certainly I won't be reporting any crimes I happen to see . . . I'll just keep my mouth shut so I don't get dinged with guilt by association.
That is what the result of this ham-fistedness will be. Promise.
Re:Bottom line: never cooperate with the authoriti (Score:5, Informative)
I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Informative)
If you find something like that, you do NOT report it.
It doesn't matter if you obtained it, you will likely take the fall.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
Just goes to show no good deed goes unpunished.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. From TFA: "Mr Robinson said: 'It makes you feel as though you shouldn't have reported it in the first place'."
Never EVER trust the police. Any police. When I was in the USAF stationed at Dover in 1972, I had barracks duty one day and the duty sergent came to me as I was sweeping, held up a hand rolled something and said "what's this?" I replied, well, it's either a cigarette or a joint."
"How do you tell?" I took it, broke it open, and said "It's green. It's a joint."
So the stupid old man asks "what should I do about it?"
I told him to throw it in the dumpster and forget about it. He said "I dunno, maybe I should report it?"
I told him "if you do, all you'll accomplish is sitting around filling paperwork about it for two days."
When I saw him the next day he said "you were right, I should have just thrown it away. Damned assholes treated me like a criminal and I had to fill out paperwork all damned afternoon. Now I'm behind in my real work."
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids get injured at foster care, or abused at foster care, or even molested at foster care? Too bad. No apology, no recourse, and Social Services is still waiting for the parents to clear themselves of the allegations. They're 'thinking of the children' so anything they do is a-ok.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:4, Informative)
Unless the parents are ethnics.
Female circumcision: Who are we to judge other cultures' traditions?
Death during exorcism: can we prove, with our racist western so-called science that there is no such thing as witchcraft?
In the system long enough - automatic TPR/adoption (Score:4, Interesting)
And if they keep the kids in foster care long enough, that is enough alone to have a termination of parental rights (*) granted (the judge is REQUIRED to grant it unless there are extreme justifications not to) and the children put up for adoption.
(*) This declares the parents to legally not be parents in any way whatsoever, no rights to visit or even contest the adoption, since they are no longer parents and thus not allowable "parties to an action" involving the children.
Third house... (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I think we have enough laws on the books at this point that we could use a dedicated house of legislature to remove laws - call them the 'House of Repeals'. They're only allowed to repeal law, reduce spending, etc...
I'd have it be 100 members, like the Senate, but be via proportional voting for electing candidates. Simple majority for passing a repeal bill, then both the house and the senate need vote on it - but only ONE needs to pass it for it to be effective, then to the president, like a normal bill.
If that doesn't work well enough, we can tweak it later.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Funny)
I told him to throw it in the dumpster and forget about it.
Atrocity!
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
Never EVER trust the police. Any police.
And above all, never EVER, talk in absolutes.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Informative)
Be careful.
From: http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C110.txt [house.gov]
-HEAD-
Sec. 2258. Failure to report child abuse
-STATUTE-
A person who, while engaged in a professional capacity or activity described in subsection (b) of section 226 of the Victims of Child Abuse Act of 1990 on Federal land or in a federally operated (or contracted) facility, learns of facts that give reason to suspect that a child has suffered an incident of child abuse, as defined in subsection (c) of that section, and fails to make a timely report as required by subsection (a) of that section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year or both.
So if you're working on a machine, see CP and don't report it, you are on the hook.
Re: (Score:3)
Funny since they have prosecuted teenagers for receiving what was deemed CP even though they never opened the file.
So not only was he guilty of having it, even without his knowledge; but also guilty of not reporting it, again without his knowledge.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Funny)
Depends on whether the teenager distributing the child pornographic images of themselves are prosecuted as an adult or not.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
You are screwed either way, so personally id take the safer route of just deleting it. If anyone asks, 'it was offensive, and i didn't look that closely before i deleted it to even know it was underage'.
Why ASK for trouble?
Re: (Score:3)
It's vague. It depends on how that OR and and AND are grouped.
Here is more, from the state level:
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/telecom/child-pornography-reporting-requirements-isps-and.aspx [ncsl.org]
Here is some stuff about ISPs:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/42/132/IV/13032 [findlaw.com]
I guess my point was that you have to be careful, you might be in trouble for not reporting, if that fact is discovered.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Informative)
Catch 22 (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy isn't under arrest. The ban on being alone with his daughter seems overly harsh but I can appreciate why.
So he is not under arrest, he has not been found guitly of a crime...but the state can prevent him from being alone with his own daughter? Let us spend some time thinking about how many things are wrong here.
The guy does have child pornography on his laptop; it's not like a reasonably likely cause of that isn't himself.
So he reported his own child pornography to the police?
There is a chance, I couldn't guess on odds, that the guy had looked at child pornography and was concerned his details may have gotten to the police.
So to make sure they have his details, he ran straight to them?
I think it is pretty reasonable for the police to want to make sure that isn't the case and I can see why they are concerned about him being left alone with a child in the meanwhile.
So why even bother with courts and trials? If the police suspect someone is guilty, we should immediately start procedures to protect everyone else from that dangerous person! Presumption of innocence? System of laws? Why bother?
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Interesting)
So to make sure they have his details, he ran straight to them?
It's like reporting your car stolen to hide the fact that you were the getaway driver.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds pretty dumb if no-one had actually noticed that a getaway had ever taken place.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds pretty dumb if no-one had actually noticed that a getaway had ever taken place.
Here's a hypothetical
1) Man collects child porn, or just browses occasionally
2) Wife finds out
3) Man denies all knowledge - "it just appeared there, someone must have broken into my computer"
4) Wife doesn't believe him
5) Man reports it to the police to prove how serious he is
6) Police and social workers see right through it, but lack concrete evidence
7) We get to this situation
I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's a theory that fits the (very few) facts that have been reported.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
The basis for this story is the man's own testimony. Why should we believe him?
Disclaimer: I hold no opinion one way or the other. Not enough facts are known.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, the state can look out for the welfare of his child while they investigate the rather peculiar circumstances whereby "I downloaded music," morphs magically into "somehow that child porn got on my computer."
So we'll imagine any conspiracy possible that will explain why he's innocent, but nobody can imagine a single scenario where this could happen? Because I sure can. Man downloads child porn. Wife finds it, freaks out. Man, in damage control mode, goes "but honey, I swear I would never do this, I thought I was downloading music! I'll report the very serious crime I was an unwitting victim of right away!" Wife accompanies him down to the station, where they file report alleging that "somebody out there in those magic tubes gave my sweet innocent husband child pornography when he thought he was downloading the latest Michael Buble album!"
Here's the thing: I've never once downloaded an MP3 from amazon, or itunes, or emusic, or an independent artist's distribution site, and ended up with child pornography. So I naturally find the claim of "I thought I was downloading music, but turns out it was pictures and video of a 6 year old being raped," to be a little hard to swallow.
The police have to investigate the reported crime; given that this man was doing "something" online that resulted in his laptop getting some child porn on it, it's not unreasonable to think that he might have downloaded them intentionally, and then hoped to cover his ass by acting out his mock outrage in front of the police when he the files were discovered by, say, his wife.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
the article never tells how he got this stuff. As a devils advocate, the possibility exists that he was discussing the porn on his laptop with his wife because she discovered it. If this is a single zip file that he opened then he can be cleared, if this can be proven to be months or years worth of material that he has been holding on to, and obtaining over time, then he is going to have a hard time using the "oops" defense.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Interesting)
So he is not under arrest, he has not been found guitly of a crime...but the state can prevent him from being alone with his own daughter? Let us spend some time thinking about how many things are wrong here.
Sorry, I was too busy thinking about a proposed law that divides the American public into two groups: registered sex offenders and unregistered sex offenders [itworld.com].
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:4, Insightful)
I think I would have securely deleted it, then reported that I was trying to download some music and it was a CP site, report it that way. Likely it is a techonophobe ruling that because it was on your PC then you intentionally put it there.
By saying you saw it elsewhere you are dutifully reporting it as mandated while not admitting that you were in possession. I doubt they'd make the connection that to see it you copied it at least to your browser cache.
-nB
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
The ban on being alone with his daughter seems overly harsh but I can appreciate why.
You're not a parent obviously. Not being able to be alone with my daughter would be devastating to me and my family. Not only is it unwarranted, unjust, and probably unconstitutional, it is also massively disruptive to the day to day workings of the modern family. This isn't the freakin 60s, I have an active and important role in my child's life; I get her out of bed in the morning, take her to day care, take off work when she's sick... etc etc. There is a chance that he looked up child porn, but this 'precaution' is being implemented on essentially zero evidence and without any due process.
Also, 4 months? They're worried about him spending 5 minutes alone with his own child and it's been 4 months without any decision as to whether he's a violent sexual predator or a good, (overly-)responsible parent. So which is it? Is he so dangerous he can't be trusted with his own flesh and blood or is he so innocuous that there's no need to actually, you know... investigate him?
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you denying that he and his daughter would both be much better off right now if he had just deleted the files and kept quiet? Perhaps he should have just re-installed and if asked, said it was acting up and he didn't know why but the re-install got it going again.
Arguably, by depriving the daughter of a normal relationship with a loving parent, child services is endangering her welfare right now.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
the social services worker made a judgement call that there was a non-trivial chance that the porn came from the man himself.
I'm glad an underpaid bureaucrat can destroy my life and my hurt my family based on a "non-trivial chance", that's... that's just awesome.
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't even appreciate why this was done.
Guilty until proven innocent. Duh. Think of teh children!
Re:I thought this was known by now (Score:5, Insightful)
The SECOND children become the subject or even a tangential consideration to a criminal investigation, Children Services are called in and the police wash their hands of the matter. That is a fact. Same as if a complaint is made of a criminal nature and subsequent filings are made to a county court, it is immediately referred to Family Proceedings and the CAFCASS Guardian is called in. That is also a fact.
The problem with Family Proceedings is that no matter the nature of the claim, it is treated as a civil matter. The burden of proof is shifted away from those making the claim (in the case of the Local Authority) to those who have to PROVE THEIR INNOCENCE (ie the natural parents). And when the standard of proof goes from "Beyond a reasonable doubt" to "Balance of probabilities", if the claim made is some witchcraftian prediction like "risk of future emotional harm", such claim is impossible to defend because THERE IS NO LEGAL DEFINITION. As a result, in such cases where the Local Authority has a stiffy for the blue haired, blonde eyed little munchkins, they end up taking the kids for forced adoption because they also have the judge, every solicitor present and their legion of so-called "expert witnesses" (witnesses? What, exactly, did they witness?) in their pocket.
I have seen it so, so many times. If I told you, your toes would curl and your hair would turn white. Children Services and the Family Legal System are the embodiment of EVIL. If you EVER find yourself in the crosshairs of these... untermenschen... run. Far and fast. Just pack an overnight and take your kids and LEAVE THE COUNTRY. The only winning move is NOT TO PLAY THEIR GAME.
I've said it before... (Score:5, Insightful)
And I'll say it again. Never, ever, under any circumstances, contact the police unless your life is in danger and they are your only hope. NEVER
You will only end up much worse off than you were before you called them.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep. Call them only if:
1) You can accept that someone will be arrested, and
2) The situation is so bad that you don't mind if that someone is you
If being arrested isn't better than whatever's happening, don't call them. Period.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I've said it before... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a little hyperbolic, but Fallingcrow's got a point. If you're a cop and you get called to the scene of an alleged crime, you might not get a chance to arrest the suspect(s) again. So if it's not blatantly obvious that one person is the assailant and the other is the victim, for example, the SOP is to pick everybody up and sort it out later. Get all the evidence you can before it's hidden, tampered with, or otherwise compromised. It's the judge's/jury's responsibility to sort out who did what.
So yeah, cops are great for stuff like asking for directions, or getting a homicidal lunatic to stop chasing you. Not so good for areas where you might be suspected of culpability.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:5, Interesting)
At first sight, this behaviour from the police is self detrimental, because people who report stuff are useful and alienating them makes criminals safer.
In truth this behaviour maximises the control of police over both people and their own work. Over people, because those who didn't report and are later discovered become automatically suspects, so they can be threatened. Over their own work, because nobody can accuse them of failing to investigate or succeed in their investigation after a report, if nobody reports.
If you expect people in power finding ways to maximise control, no matter under what flag, religion, or ideology, you usually explain things better than the theory that incompetence reigns over c.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, you beat me to it.
For those who haven't seen it:
Don't Talk to the Police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc [youtube.com]
He man not have had a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
``Honey, what's this on your computer?''
`What's what? Oh! That!'
``How did it get there honey?''
`Uh, I don't know. It must have gotten downloaded when I was downloading music or something.'
``We should call the police.''
`Uh, yeah, we should do that.'
Careful with anecdotes (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Careful with anecdotes (Score:5, Insightful)
When I worked for IT at the state we often had memory and hard drives (small and valuable back in the 90's) disappear. My boss always made me report it to the cops (state police, in this case) rather than having anyone else in the department do it.
Every single theft I reported I was hauled in for intense interrogation. The cops ALWAYS went with the assumption that I alone did the crime because I reported it, even though there were dozens or even hundreds of people in the department with the same access to the missing equipment. Once I was cuffed to a chair for an hour and questioned for reporting a theft. They will question you about every aspect of your life, financial, personal, professional, sexual, anything. Every time I felt like I was going to end up in prison for reporting the crime. But I did the reporting because my boss asked me to do it and she was a nice lady. She was also black, so I understood why she had me do the reporting. I was the most innocent looking, nerdy, white male in the department so they probably went easiest on me.
Another anecdote: My wife once reported a reckless driver who ran us off the road, license #, make, model, everything. Because she admitted driving onto the shoulder to avoid him, she got a ticket for unsafe driving.
So no, unless your life is in danger and you have no other options, do not talk to the cops.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sadly this is true.
We were broken into, lived in a seedy part of town, called the PD.
They showed up and saw some glassware (what most nerds would consider basic chemistry needs) and assumed I was a drug cooker.
I had to dig out all the science kits I bought for my kids and actually show them a basic science experiment (viscoelastic fluid using cornstarch and water), which my children happily explained to them, before they would back off on their obvious intent to arrest me.
On the bright side I think the cop that was actually paying attention actually learned that a similar fluid is responsible for his transmission's torque converter functioning properly, as well as the fan clutch for his car's radiator.
Go figure.
-nB
Re:I've said it before... (Score:5, Interesting)
This story reminds me of something that a friend is going through at the moment. He's a recently released felon that's trying to get his life back on track, and has routine visits from his parole officer. The PO was looking through his computer's disk drive and found a file named "LICENSE.txt". He was immediately accused of creating fake driver's licenses, and had to explain in great depth that the file he'd found was a software license (just opening the file and showing the contents didn't even placate this guy).
A few weeks later the PO came to inspect again, and found an e-book titled "Google Hacks". It's a book on optimizing search engine results/etc. The PO accused him of attempting to hack Google and left. He was placed in a halfway home 2 hours away from where he was staying for observation until they could come to a decision on what to do with his "offense". Most of the authorities involved agreed that this was an offense worthy of revoking his parole and sending him back to prison. There were gears in motion to do just that, until someone stepped in and outlined what the book actually was and how it in no way violated any conditions of his parole. They backed off on sending him back to prison, but they'd decided he should be shipped to Texas to live in a halfway house "just in case". He's OK with this, because he's legitimately scared of the vendetta that his PO has against him at this point and will be under the jurisdiction of a different one where he's being sent; though he no longer has the option to live with his family.
Technological ignorance and fear in those with authority is a very, very scary thing.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that so many things are suspicious to the superstitious and uninformed. Your arduino board looks an awfully lot like a bomb to some laman. I mean there are wires and a circuit board. I saw that on NCIS once, it must be a bomb!!!
Re:I've said it before... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to claim that I'm aware of exactly what was said or tone of voice used, but it seems a police officer, in the normal course of duty, saw something suspicious, investigated, verified the presented story, and found nothing wrong. Isn't that their job?
That's why they're so dangerous.
There are many cases, some of them on Slashdot, of the cops or firemen coming into somebody's apartment, seeing some chemistry equipment, leading to a whole criminal proceeding.
One retired chemist in Massachusetts had a home laboratory, and the local town confiscated it (probably at greater risk than if they had left it alone). He knew the risks better than they did. The striking thing was the stupidity and ignorance of the local town people, who didn't understand anything about chemistry. Meth labs use chemistry equipment. This is chemistry equipment. So this is a meth lab, right?
The fact that they're doing their job is no consolation to the innocent victims who wind up defending themselves sometimes from criminal charges sometimes at great financial cost. To add insult to injury, a lot of DAs don't even want to dismiss charges when they turn out to be wrong, but want the victim to take a plea bargain and conviction.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:5, Informative)
I think what set them off was the Erlenmeyer flasks. They seem to scream mad scientist to non chemistry people.
Erlenmeyer flasks (and much of the other glassware you mention) are illegal to possess in Texas without a permit--and in order to get a permit, you must allow the police to search your house (or place of business) unannounced: The Precursor Chemical Statute [state.tx.us]
Re: (Score:3)
Sometimes it is necessary to contact them for insurance purposes.
After all, how are you going to prove to the insurance company that your car was stolen?
Re: (Score:3)
If you don't want to be arrested for murdering your neighbor, yes.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd say never contact them no matter what. Better to die.
Or, defend yourself.
Re:I've said it before... (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah. No Valhalla for you.
What else did he expect? (Score:5, Funny)
"Hi, police, I am currently committing the crime of possession of child pornography, here's my name and address..."
Re:What else did he expect? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Hi, police, I am currently committing the crime of possession of child pornography, here's my name and address..."
Also imagine if the police did nothing. Then the headline would be "Man with child pornography on his computer allowed unsupervised visits with children". I do not know what he is criticizing.
Re:What else did he expect? (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds to me like social services just found the guy's name involved in a child porn investigation and assume he's dangerous. This doesn't seem to be an issue of bad police intentionally making somebody's life miserable, but rather a miscommunication that now has to be investigated, verified, checked, reviewed, and accepted by half a dozen different departments before any resolution will come about.
To be blunt (Score:5, Insightful)
Never talk to the Pigs. There is never, and has never been any interaction with the police that will ever benefit you in any way.
Re:To be blunt (Score:4, Funny)
Never talk to the Pigs. There is never, and has never been any interaction with the police that will ever benefit you in any way.
You forgot to add: "...unless you're filthy rich."
Re:To be blunt (Score:4, Insightful)
But you still don't do it then. You have your lawyers do it.
Dumb (Score:5, Interesting)
People expect reason and common sense from the authorities are dumb. I remember a friend of mine reported his roomate for child porn and the police came and took ALL the computers in the place. His roomates and his. They tried their best to implicate him as well as his roomate in the illegal pictures but couldn't quite stretch it far enough so settled for keeping his computers. He never got them back and I guess they scared him so bad he was happy not to be in jail. He said he'd never call the police again if his life depended on it.
Re:Dumb (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep the police are not there to protect you, they are there to punish people, and keep the rabble in line. Sure sometimes some people need punishment but the police operate from the standpoint that everyone needs punishment and if they punish you wrongly well the court system is there and it will be taken care of.
It basically all comes back to the saying "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".
Re: (Score:3)
It's common sense for the police to treat the man as if he's lying. If the police assume he's telling the truth they risk putting a child in danger (and failing in their duty to protect the innocent) but if they assume he's lying then they can take measures.
Re:Dumb (Score:4, Insightful)
It's Pascal's wager for cops :
A) Guy's a pedophile
Do nothing: a child gets abused, serious reputation damage for police
Do something: child is OK
B) Guy's not a pedophile
Do nothing: child is OK
Do something: minor reputation damage for police
Not difficult to see which option the police should be choosing there.
Re:Dumb (Score:5, Insightful)
Logical Conclusion:
Arrest everybody for being a pedophile. Just in case. You can always establish your innocence later.
Re: (Score:3)
Logical Conclusion:
Arrest everybody for being a pedophile. Just in case. You can always establish your innocence later.
Stop... Giving... them... ideas. OK? They might take you seriously. If they could, they would arrest everyone in sight. just in case.
Re: (Score:3)
If the pupetrator was caught with his pants down then he should be castrated and thown in jail for the rest of his natural.
[ insert Muppet joke here ]
In other news- (Score:5, Funny)
Justice (Score:5, Funny)
I saw this last night... (Score:5, Interesting)
On the BBC website (the link posted in the summary), and it was quite a prominent story - however, I went back to find it this morning and it's nowhere to be found, you have to use a direct link to get to it. Interesting...
The story itself is a typical example of UK officialdom vastly over-reacting, and has been picked up by many mainstream newspapers today - I hope this bloke is absolved and compensated by social services for their idiotic behaviour.
Re: (Score:3)
On the BBC website (the link posted in the summary), and it was quite a prominent story - however, I went back to find it this morning and it's nowhere to be found, you have to use a direct link to get to it. Interesting...
It's there, but not in a very prominent place. Go to the England part of the UK section, select Yorkshire & Lincolnshire as your local area, then click on the Humberside section. It's there, for their community to see, but not really presented to the rest of the nation.
Come on people (Score:4, Funny)
There's a new iPad. With 120% more horizantal who-gives-a-shits and a whole bunch of new big-fucking-deals available on the app store.
And you guys are talking about this nonsense? Defending a guy with a hard drive full of child porn, that just somehow "magically" got there, he doesn't know how - a wizard did it?
iPad people, iPad. Apple isn't paying you to defend child molesters, it's paying you to sell them more iPads.
Pointing the blame at the wrong group (Score:5, Informative)
what do you do? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't say precisely where things went wrong, but it does look like the system goes after the "easy" cases rather than dig into the ones where children are genuinely in danger. Now we have parents who are trying to do the right thing being routinely badgered by the powers that be (not necessarily the police, who are only the arms of the bureaucrats) while we continually read of kids who were killed or severely traumatized in situations where authorities were aware of the situation but did not pursue it. It really seems like they tend to pursue the easy things. Is this to push up statistics?
When my daughter was young (single digits, don't remember exactly) she got a rug burn at daycare that became infected. I took her to the doctor, who sent me across the street for x-rays. When I came back, there were police waiting. After much hilarity and trauma, they decided they didn't have enough evidence to arrest me and let us go.
So, what do I do the next time she gets injured while playing? Not take her to the doctor?
Re:what do you do? (Score:5, Interesting)
Similar story, when I was younger my Father, sister ( A bit of a tomboy ) and I were playing catch in the backyard with a baseball. My father tossed it to my sister who missed it and it hit her square in the eye and quickly became a great shiner with a fairly decent amount of swelling. To make sure there was no serious damage we all went to the hospital to see the doctor. When asked by the doctor how it happened, my sister (Still in tears) pointed right at my dad and said "He did it!". He was promptly removed from the room for a few hours while me and my sister were asked all sorts of questions by some "Nice people from the hospital". He never really said what he was doing during this time, but I'd imagine that he was being grilled pretty well.
Same mistake... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the same mistake made by Google in the Wifi scandal and the US military in the accidental Quaran burnings.
You see something illegal on your own property that has hurt no one so far and no one knows about, and will cease to exist and continue to hurt no one if you destroy the evidence of it and cover it up? DESTROY THE EVIDENCE AND COVER IT UP.
The accusation itself does the damage (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are cleared, there will always be those who think that you are some sort of pervert who "got off".
Also, if you are convicted just because there was porn on your computer, there will be (hopefully) be some people who will recognize the miscarraige of justice..
Once accused -- guilty or not -- your live is forever changed. I will likely cost you your retirement savings to pay to a lawyer to mitigate the damage.
Therefore, do not be your own accuser.
If you find anything incriminating on your computer, delete it irretrievably -- if you don't know how, find out.
Then ever afterwards, stfu.
Re:Another rube will self-identify (Score:5, Insightful)
Non sequitor.
One of the problems in the US and UK (and to some extent, Australia and Canada) is that they have privatized prisons, which has lead to BILLIONS of dollars in lobbying made to increase sentencing and decrease judicial and police discretion about "minor crimes".
Your faith in (and I may be putting words in your mouth here) "privatize everything" is misplaced. People in power, by their nature, are corruptable and seek to increase their power.
I am just as frightened by it being financial and business hegemons OR government untouchables. The difference is that in our system of government, we can remove those in power, we can demand (and even vote for) transparency in their actions and we can lawfully pursue justice where they fail to do it.
In business, many of those recourses are lost. I'm all for small business, but in an anarcho-libertarian society (the obvious extreme example of your position), global multinationals would become de-facto islands of government, just as they began to do in the 1880s, before the US federal government asserted the people's desire to put controls in place to regulate gross misuse of marketplace domination and monopoly. Things improved for almost all people (except the handful at the top of the business) when those businesses were regulated so they could no longer take gross advantage of the workers, the economy and the environment.
So I just caution you that your particular tollway, also, may be paved by your best intentions, but I assert it doesn't necessary avoid taking us to a the same destination any less directly.