Yet Another European Government Drops ACTA 117
An anonymous reader writes "The government of Bulgaria, which had already signed ACTA, yesterday reversed itself, and announced that it would not seek ratification of the treaty. This comes after similar moves by Poland, Germany and the Netherlands, and a weekend of massive protests against ACTA across the European continent."
Common sense (Score:5, Insightful)
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American politicians had the common sense to present a decoy (SOPA/PIPA) first :>
Re:Common sense (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah but they underestimated that EU citizens are not fucking stupid, and doped up on high fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants.
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+1 awesome characterization
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really, really necessary?
Dope! (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah but they underestimated that EU citizens are not fucking stupid, and doped up on high fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants.
You forgot all the Adderall. [slashdot.org]
C'mon, kids -- you know the schtick! Better Living Through Chemistry!
(...goes and hides in his den and looks for that Canuckistan immigration packet...)
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welcome to ACTA north, currently being quietly forced through parliament AGAINST the will of the CITIZENS. Text has been presented to the Canuckistan government in secret, after text had been prepared by FOREIGN agitators, influencing OUR way of life. Everyone, do the world a favour and kill and American politician, executive, or lawyer.
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And the moral of the story: NEVER EVER give any Canadian political party a majority. They cannot be trusted with it.
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I am tempted to extend that to any political party in any nation on this planet.
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(...goes and hides in his den and looks for that Canuckistan immigration packet...)
I'm afraid you won't find it much more to your liking here in Canada:
http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/02/13/1539259/canadian-govt-to-introduce-massive-internet-surveillance-law [slashdot.org]
http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/02/14/1832205/against-online-surveillance-you-must-be-for-child-porn-says-legislator [slashdot.org]
It seems that our government's fondest wish is to turn our country into either America's clone or America's bitch - I haven't yet figured out which.
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Maybe they find UCAS as a concept appealing?
Re:Common sense (Score:5, Funny)
No! All we had was cocaine, marijuana and LSD for our depression and nothing but pure, sweet honey harvested by Cuban children to tame our cravings for sweets.
Actually, yes, in America too. (Score:5, Informative)
A U.S. representative signed it, but it was never ratified.
Pull your heads out, folks.
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The RIAA will just bulldoze it through, it's not a question of if, but when!
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Actually ACTA have been ratified by Executive Order of president Obama on 1 October 2011.
http://www.factoverfiction.com/article/7003 [factoverfiction.com]
Re:Common sense (Score:5, Informative)
Summary is not entirely correct. Germany, Poland, Netherlands did not also "drop" ACTA, they delayed proceeding on it in pursuit of further clarification. Their actions are not the same as Bulgaria's. There are still internal conflicts in the governments of those countries and ratification is still likely after amendment. I understand there is a desire on slashdot to portray an unstoppable tide of anti-ACTA sentiment in Europe, but we can't make up what we want.
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The US already has the DMCA, so it matters little if it's ratified here. ACTA was to impose the DMCA on other countries. From what I've seen, ACTA adds nothing new. As many tech pundits have already pointed out, DMCA works well in the US because of Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms that many European countries lack, which would make their version of a DMCA relatively unhindered from becoming downright draconian.
Bad for Europe, a shoulder shrug for the US.
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Say what?
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Perhaps DragonWriter was questioning the claim that it worked well, not the claim the texh pundits said it worked well.
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Europe has a directive called EUCD (the very equivalent of the DMCA) that has been ratified around 2006 and laws have popped up in every country for the application. It is now very much in effect in all of the EU countries.
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Another one bites the dust... (Score:1)
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Last seen in the United States?
Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (Score:5, Informative)
It looks like ACTA is pretty much dead in the EU, as it will only enter into force if all the EU countries agree to it unanimously. However, it will still remain in force for the other signatories as long as at least 6 states sign it. So far United States, Australia, Canada, Japan, Morocco, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea have all signed it, so at least three of those need to back out for the treaty to die completely.
Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (Score:5, Insightful)
They are just bound and determined... (Score:5, Insightful)
Man...glad I was here to see the wild west days of it back in '92-'93 and just after that.
Then again, I remember going to the gates at airports to greet people as they got off the plane, and even before metal detectors going to the gates.
Sigh...the US use to be a much more free place.
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Sigh...the US use to be a much more free place.
The US was always a crazy place. You just had enough luck (lack of a standing army during peacetime) to bypass the great fascist/communist systems of the 20th century. Of course since then you've defintely jumped the shark and are at work to come up to date to what the SS, Stazi, NKVD etc... all used to do to their populace decades ago.
So today the US is a less free in an absolute sense, but its also much less free than the EU.
At least we europeans learned the lesson and now mostly keep at bay fascist tende
Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (Score:4, Insightful)
Very unlikely to happen in the US. The administration hasn't even submitted it to congress for ratification yet. Also, remember treaties need 2/3 support of the senate, and there are an easy 34 senators that oppose this.
Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (Score:5, Interesting)
Except that administration is claiming that they don't need senate confirmation to ratify the treaty. So the US will be counted among the 6 needed at least initially. Furthermore to be over-tuned in the courts, someone will have to show standing. Since ACTA does not require the implementation of any new laws in the US, that will be hard to do. The only thing I can think of is if a Senator sued because the treaty limited their ability to change the law. But even then I could see the courts denying standing, unless a law contradicting ACTA is actually passed.
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We really need to keep up on what's going through Congress and other governmental agencies and kill them long before they are days from a vote.
I think killing the Congress and local equivalents in all the EU countries might be a bit difficult, but definitely worth it. Stopping ACTA would just be killing two birds with one stone
Get a clue. (Score:3)
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Where did I say they did? No one has ratified it yet, but all signatory countries I listed are moving towards ratification with no signs of that changing.
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Australia requires a change of leadership the current narcissist practically fawns all over US politicians when they pay her empty headed compliments. Fortunately in a parliament you don't have to wait four years, you can kick a foreign government's dupe out over night.
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In other news, scientists cloned their first Dodo bird today from preserved Dodo DNA....
Things like ACTA never really go away, they just declare bankruptcy and open up a new shell corporation... er...
Thank you, Europe (Score:4, Insightful)
We in Canada thank you for being smarter than us. Our prime minister still has his nose up American corporate ass.
Re:Thank you, Europe (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes. We are.
The Harper Government is putting heavy pressure on the CBC not to televise it. The other news interests are being pushed down by their corporate overlords.
People in Ontario: This is what you have voted into our Canadian government. Even Ignatieff was better than this.
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Citation?
Re:Thank you, Europe (Score:4, Interesting)
Will take me a little while to find it again but Harper had funding cuts for the CBC put into his budget back when they were reporting on some scientists that harper was gagging.
CBC folded, they removed the story from their web site, the only place you can find it now is on independent sites.
http://asweweresaying.blogspot.com/2010/10/scientists-defy-harper-gag-rules.html [blogspot.com]
The above is the story.
The CBC has been saying "How high" every time harper says "jump" ever since.
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Well, is Canada protesting like places across Europe?
Not that I'm aware of. There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird political system has given someone with less than 50% of the popular support a *majority government*. That means we have a fascist party in government with no effective means to control them.
Hopefully they will be gone after the next election. The people up here aren't too bright and might re-elect them.
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Not that I'm aware of. There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird political system has given someone with less than 50% of the popular support a *majority government*.
What's weird about that? The last Labour government in the UK gained a majority with around 22% of the votes. Majority government on minority votes seems to be the norm in most Western nations.
Hopefully they will be gone after the next election. The people up here aren't too bright and might re-elect them.
The left clearly aren't too bright because they took a minority government and turned it into a majority government by forcing an election no-one wanted. If they hadn't forced an election Canada would still have a safe minority government who couldn't screw anything up too badly.
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It's the "first past the post" system. It's a great way of raising the barrier for entry to keep minority interests out of the picture.
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It's the "first past the post" system. It's a great way of raising the barrier for entry to keep minority interests out of the picture.
The first past the post system is a great way to keep minor parties out of the picture, but it is not responsible for the possibility of a party winning the majority of seats without majority popular support. That kind is situation occurs in Australia, which has preferential voting. It is instead a product of representative (ie. seat by seat elections) rather than popula
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It's the "first past the post" system. It's a great way of raising the barrier for entry to keep minority interests out of the picture.
Agree with other sibling post, also wanted to add: they're not really "keeping minority interests out of the picture" (at least here in USistan); instead, they're ensuring the minority interests are pandered to (i.e., the 1%, instead of the 99%).
Re:Thank you, Europe (Score:4, Insightful)
What's weird is when the party has less than 50% of votes, but more than 50% of seats.
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First past the post destroys that though. When you have to appeal to the largest base, you end up with two parties, generally. It's easier to corrupt two parties, also.
GP is saying with a small percentage of the votes, the party obtains >50% of the seats, and thus absolute power (not that they are the biggest party with small percentage, that's not the problem). Not very democratic, is it.
A group of parties with sub 50% of the vote working together in coalition is a good thing.
One party with sub 50% of t
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What's weird about that? The last Labour government in the UK gained a majority with around 22% of the votes. Majority government on minority votes seems to be the norm in most Western nations.
Actually it's not the norm in most Western nations. Most countries in Europe have proportional systems. Australia and New Zealand have proportional systems. In fact I think UK, Canada and USA are the only western nations with plurality voting systems. It is weird to most of the western world.
Re:Thank you, Europe (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm so sick of that argument.
The conservatives only got 40% of the popular vote, so 60% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power....
Ok, but look at the alternatives...
30% voted for the NDP, that means 70% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
19% voted for the Liberals, that means 81% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
6% voted for the Bloc, that means 94% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
4% voted for the Greens, that means 96% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
Yes, I can understand that the "first past the post" riding system might cause a party that has less then 40% of the popular vote can still grab 54% of the seats, but look at the system in the US, it causes the same issues. 2000 election had Al Gore with 48.4% of the popular vote who lost to George Bush with 47.9%.
So the party that had the largest percentage of people voting for them ended up forming the government and you are calling this Fascist? I think that might better suit a system where you write off the fact that the majority voted for one party and say they shouldn't be in power and that a less popular party should be in charge.
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Nobody is suggesting that the Conservative government should not be in power based on the last election. I believe people have a problem with the amount of power bestowed upon the government for winning 39% of the popular vote. I think the logical conclusion from your data is that a Conservative minority government would best reflect the wishes of the people under the current framework.
The fact that that didn't happen suggests there might be something wrong with the current system.
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what the people are protesting is the willingness of the government to act AGAINST the will, intent, wishes, needs, best interests, RIGHTS, and FREEDOMS of the CITIZENs. regardless of the majority or minority status, or how much of a mandate they have(n't). The Canadian government does not in any way shape or formmake any attempt to reflect on and act on the wishes or best interests of the CITIZENs. if Canada were to be invaded it would be by the americans, no one else wishes us ill will. And thank you euro
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I think the OP was calling the current government fascist, not the political system.
Fascism - noun
A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on a relationship between business and the centralized government, business-and-government control of the market place, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights.
That pretty well sums up the conservative government in Canada.
As for your argument about percentages win
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Bloody rights it is fascist. The group with 39% can dictate something that all the other groups may dislike. In a proper system the remaining 61% can work together on things that represent their common goals.
That way the laws have support of 61% of voters, as opposed to 39%. Even if it is only supported by the 30 and 19 and 4, that's 53%, a better representation of what the voters want. If it's less than 50, you're SOL. that awful bill the people don't want isn't going to pass.
In a proper system, to get an
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I'm so sick of that argument.
The conservatives only got 40% of the popular vote, so 60% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power....
Ok, but look at the alternatives...
31% voted for the NDP, that means 70% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
19% voted for the Liberals, that means 81% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
6% voted for the Bloc, that means 94% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
4% voted for the Greens, that means 96% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
In a sane(r) system:
the Conservatives would get ~40% of the seats,
the NDP would get ~31% of the seats,
the Liberals would get ~19% of the seats,
the Bloc would get ~6% of the seats,
and the Greens would get ~4% of the seats.
Then, the governing party would have to hold talks with the other parties and make compromises that would be acceptable to most of the populace.
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The funny thing is, with the exception of the Greens, your statements are likely very accurate:
I'd strip about 20% off the stats for people who were actually voting *for* the MP they wanted. Most people have been negative voting for years.
40% of Canadians didn't want the Conservatives to be in power....
50% of Canadians didn't want the NDP to be in power...
61% of Canadians didn't want the Liberals to be in power...
74% of Canadians didn't want the Bloc to be in power...
96% of Canadians didn't expect a vote f
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Why do we have so many ignorant canadians who don't even understand our electorate system? Or even the reason why the conservatives got elected. I mean, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the liberals tried to overthrow the government three times. Failed, and the people said: "Enough with the fucking elections, we want some stability for a few years."
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Urghhh, not another one of these FUDsters trying to say that forming a coalition is an attempt at a treasonous overthrow. Maybe you don't understand how the system works.
If harper would ever compromise (you know, something that you have to do in a minority position) there wouldn't have been so many elections.
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There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird political system has given someone with less than 50% of the popular support a *majority government*. That means we have a fascist party in government with no effective means to control them.
It is way more ridiculous. Let me crunch the numbers for you:
The popular support for the Conservatives was 39.62% with a 61.4% voter turnout.
Which means that LESS THAN 25% OF ELIGIBLE CANADIANS VOTED FOR THEM. That's right, less than a quarter , not counting
However, if we consider all Canadians, not just the electors on the list, out of 31,612,897 [elections.ca] people, 5,832,401 voted Conservative. That's right boys and girls, the whole of 18.45% .
And this gave us a majority government that, contrary to the US, has
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Your use of profanity to bolster your argument betrays your intelligence level. Better luck next time.
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a bloo bloo, internet person called me a bad word so he is a stupid doody-head!
There isn't a bullet where your brain is supposed to be, so I guess the Canadian government isn't fascist enough yet. There's always hope though.
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As do us here in New Zealand
Human Rights (Score:2, Informative)
The FFII reports [ffii.org] they convinced the Parliament of The Netherlands to adopt an anti-ACTA motion:
As Amnesty, OSCE, Human Rights Commissioner Reding and others have their doubts it looks like a poison pill.
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Answer: (Score:3, Insightful)
Corruption
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Re:Wrong target (Score:5, Insightful)
They already tried that by telling me that downloading a couple of tracks from the Internet was equivalent to nicking a car. They then showed that piracy is masterminded by some half-naked medieval torturer with glowing red eyes and a red hot branding iron. Seems so fucking cool to me that I of course had to give it a try.
It was disappointing, but I at least came away with some free music.
TFA missing (Score:5, Informative)
TFA is just a LMGTFY??
This must be a new low.
Re:TFA missing (Score:5, Funny)
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Amazing wake-up call... (Score:2)
....to not ACTA stupid.
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Watsamatta for you?
Thisa the government wea talking about!
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In this case, I think "not yet" is actually a euphemism for "no". Remember: they just got done negotiating and signing this pile of shit. Now they're trying to back out of it while still saving face.
A word of caution (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A word of caution (Score:4, Interesting)
I am Bulgarian living in Bulgaria right now. I am as happy as any of you about the ditching of ACTA by our government. But! They change their minds twice a day. The position of the other European governments against ACTA, I think, is based (to a certain extent at least) on principles and integrity. Our government is silly, uninformed, clueless and it may easily jump back on the ACTA bandwagon if put under pressure. They were clearly ready to force the ratification of ACTA on the Parliament. What changed their minds was the protest wave -- the government are populist and easily bend before protests. However, they bend easily before anything. So, let's wait and see...
the funniest thing is that the minister who took responsibility for signing the ACTA treaty early said on national television that he is under a lot of pressure to sign lots of paperwork everyday (around 100+ papers on a weekly basis) and he said quote "i'm sorry for not reading this document throughly, before accepting to sign it - my team of experts said it was nothing to qworry about it" They are truly clueless and they admit it, lulz.
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Far better to be clueless and admit it than to be simply clueless, which appears to be the position of most of our politicians.
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the funniest thing is that the minister who took responsibility for signing the ACTA treaty early said on national television that he is under a lot of pressure to sign lots of paperwork everyday (around 100+ papers on a weekly basis) and he said quote "i'm sorry for not reading this document throughly, before accepting to sign it - my team of experts said it was nothing to worry about it" They are truly clueless and they admit it, lulz.
All the better than, less room for evil to hide when you know ignorance is taking most of the space, they could've done as my government does: 'well... we have to decline comment, but i assure you there is nothing to worry about (smiley face).' Time to get educated!
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If only our politicians in the US were as honest.
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You don't appreciate the cultural undertones of what is being said. I assume you will also like the following quote from the same government official in regard to ACTA: "We should never put copy rights ahead of human rights".
Now let me translate these statements for you: "Gee, we did not realize that we can ask for bigger bribes. Now go back and stuff a little more cash into that envelope."
What happened is that being completely clueless about the dynamics of the issue, the government assumed this somet
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Show of hands ... all whose government doesn't fall into this category? Anybody?
It seems like when most governments try to pass laws on technology, they demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of what it is they're passing laws about and how it works. That never seems to stop them, though.
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To make matters worse modern media has descended in to sensationalism which only allows for sound bites, you have various papers like The Sun pushing for action when something outrageous happens. While this is impo
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I don't mind people being uninformed - even clueless, That is the default state of human beings.
What is really annoying are those who feel that this ignorance makes them somehow better - perhaps more suitable to lead or make decisions.
In many circumstances, not knowing something makes someone neither better or worse. The fact that I don't know how to smoke fish does not make me ignorant. It does however make me not a suitable person to make laws about it without being forced to use and take heed of exper
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The problem is that the government is not reversing any of its past actions.
It is not removing its signature under ACTA, its parliamentary group would not even let a proposal for official refusal of ratification to be presented to the parliament.
For all that matters, Bulgaria can just ratify ACTA tomorrow.
The official stance is to delay until the EU parliament makes a decision and then to repeat whatever that decision is. It seems that the ACTA proponents would try to delay the vote in the EU parliament. T
The fight for democracy (Score:3)
Re:The fight for democracy (Score:4, Insightful)
Internet vs Establishment. We are winning (Score:4, Insightful)
ACTA source EU (Score:3, Insightful)
Text of the treaty:
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/11/st12/st12196.en11.pdf
Main aim of this legislation seems to be exporting the US legal approach to the rest of the world. Tactics like secret negotiations, participants having to sign non-disclosure agreement intended to implement this more or less under the radar of public scrutiny.
Please take into account that the US patent system is considered "broken" through awarding trivial patents, patents on software, genetic patents, patent trolls, corporate patent wars.
Like the mission to Iraq the US has again created a coalition of the willing and is using that to get more aboard. US diplomacy is exerting pressure to join. If the EU would have joined it would have very difficult for third world countries to evade joining. That would definitely have impacted the price and availability of generic pharmaceuticals.
That legal approach includes for instance the damages calculation which led to obscene claims in the US and also would enable a business model for law firms to extort consumers sharing a few files.
Please note that this treaty aims to cover all Intellectual Property rights. The implications for the Internet (ISPs having to cooperate) draws the most attention up to now.
More specifically it will enable Monsanto to enforce their genetic seed patents outside the US. So do expect them to sue farmers saving part of their harvest for seeding next year. Given the wide contamination by pollen seed stocks are inevitably contaminated by GM material.
The US political system is thoroughly corrupted. Corporate interest like MPAA's Dodd (an ex-senator mind you) is openly threatening to retract campaign contributions. The failure of the US political system in their fiduciary duty to protect citizens/voters/consumers against exploitation by the economic system is of truly epic proportions.
Corporate interest simply don't have the same level of influence in Europe.
However now the very secretive approach has been exposed, the very text will be studied much more thoroughly. For now ACTA seems dead in the water indeed.
Nice to see international grass roots cooperation to stop this (now more that 2.3 million signatures:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet/?tta
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No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I don't think opposition from former Eastern Bloc countries like Bulgaria and Poland surprises anyone really, nor do I expect their dissent to convince any of the proponents to back down, particularly the US. On the contrary, I expect they'll use that to fuel their argument about the necessity of ACTA.
Good to see Germany and the Netherlands opposing it though. The economic powerhouse of Germany cannot be ignored, and their opposition makes it politically easier for other countries to voice their dissent as well.
It will be pushed through (Score:2)
Until copyrights patents are universally understood to be BAD for the economy and society in general, this will keep coming up over and over.
There is no half way.
There is no half way between just a little bit of copyright and ACTA and SOPA and DMCA - ACTA and SOPA and DMCA will win.
There is no half way between just a little bit of socialism and totalitarianism - totalitarianism will win.