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Hosting Services May Be Breaking Syrian Sanctions

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  • by CmdrPony (2505686) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:38PM (#38139936)
    North Korea has hosted their govermental websites (for outsiders, anyway) in Spain. For example korea-drp.com [korea-dpr.com] is hosted on IP 91.142.218.24 in Malaga, Spain. It's been there for years. (I know because I've planned visiting there, and looked it up a few times)

    And seriously, hosting services assisting in "crimes against humanity"? They are informational sites about countries. It makes sense for them to outsource their hosting. Hell, even United States uses Akamai. If you want to do censorship against countries or things you don't agree with, sure, go ahead and silence their websites. But country having a website has nothing to do with "crimes against humanity".
    • Planned visiting the IP address, Malaga Spain, or North Korea?

      The first is easy to do. The second and third doesn't explain why you would whois the IP.

      I'd love to see North Korea for curiousity sake; darn me for getting my US citizenship that makes it illegal for me to visit now.

      Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.

      • by egamma (572162) <egamma@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:49PM (#38140064)

        Planned visiting the IP address, Malaga Spain, or North Korea?

        The first is easy to do. The second and third doesn't explain why you would whois the IP.

        I'd love to see North Korea for curiousity sake; darn me for getting my US citizenship that makes it illegal for me to visit now.

        Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.

        And I hear they have a great visitor's facility where you can stay for free, for years at a time!

      • by CmdrPony (2505686)
        North Korea of course :-) And yeah, I want to see it just for the experience and because it's something so little amount of people have done. Would make awesome small talk subject too.

        I also have heard it's really safe country to visit, actually. If you're being an idiot, they don't punish you. At most your guide will get punished for it. There's really interesting video guide to north korea in YouTube (and vbs.tv) about it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG4gL3eAHVs [youtube.com]
        • by RazzleFrog (537054) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:54PM (#38140122)

          You are quite the sadist aren't you. "They might imprison your guide and rape his family but think of the small talk". How about you visit South Korea instead. Or even go to Cuba.

          • by CmdrPony (2505686)
            I didn't say I'm gonna act like an ass and get my guide punished. I was just pointing out that it's safe from foreigners to visit there, as many might be wondering about that.
            • by dbIII (701233)

              I was just pointing out that it's safe from foreigners to visit there

              If you ask someone that's been there they will tell you that Xenophobia is just about the state religion and people will want to kill you for being one of those different looking oppressing foreigners.

        • by Incadenza (560402)

          North Korea of course :-) And yeah, I want to see it just for the experience and because it's something so little amount of people have done. Would make awesome small talk subject too. I also have heard it's really safe country to visit, actually. If you're being an idiot, they don't punish you.

          This stamp collector from the Netherlands> [yahoo.com] (lame Babelfish translation, but Googles one is even worse) visited North Korea 24 times. His last visit however ended with weeks and weeks of interrogations, a forced confession to a crime he didn't commit and a judge that absolved him (but that might just as well sentenced him to decades of jail).

      • by BitZtream (692029)

        Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.

        I realize that a lot of what gets said about various countries is propoganda by other countries who dont' like each other, however, if you believe this statement, you are an idiot of the highest order.

        • Actually, because they have such a harsh military dictatorship and they have eyes on you all the time it is very safe to visit.

          Living there- perhaps not so much.

          I think it was the BBC that did a survery of the safest countries to visit several years back and North Korea was surprisingly ranked amongst the top 2 or 3 in the world.

          Will have to hunt for that link.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        It's not illegal for a US citizen to travel to the DPRK (I've done it). It's actually easier than Cuba (where you can legally travel to as well, but can't spend money without permission from the Department of the Treasury).

        You have to travel with an authorized tour group, and your guides/translators won't let you out of their sight. You will only see preapproved things, but it's still an amazing and very unique experience.

        I used Koryo Tours (http://www.koryogroup.com/) and had a great experience, there are

      • by Anonymus (2267354)

        It's only "safe to visit" because you are literally only taken to areas approved by the government, where "normal" North Koreans do not live or frequent, and because you are with a government tour guide at all times. And that's assuming you don't do something stupid like bring contraband, take a photo without asking your tour guide for permission first, try to sneak away from the tour group, give the appearance of being in any way anti-North-Korean, etc.

    • If the website encourages violence against its citizens who are uprising then aren't they assisting?

      • IMO, the best way to undermine and/or overthrow crazy regimes and create true change in countries is not to discipline the enemy government, but to act as an example and lend out a hand of friendship straight to the people. Sanctions against governments always result in the enemy government finding new and innovative ways to continue enriching themselves while transferring the pain of sanctions down to the people.

        All too often sanctions hurt the people of a country, and only barely the government. North Kor

    • by nedlohs (1335013)

      Do you know what sanctions are?

    • by Hentes (2461350)

      Well of course the don't have Internet in North Korea.

      • by CmdrPony (2505686)
        Actually they do, they internal uni and web cafe network is really fast too. They also have internet access to government offices and large companies. It's getting more and more common for general populate to get connection at home too, though I guess it will take some time before they get access to the whole internet.
        • by Hentes (2461350)

          I've heard they have a national intranet but I don't think it's connected to the global network.

          • by CmdrPony (2505686)
            It is, but only to government personnel, large companies and foreign visitors. Their IP allocation has been really fucked though, so they only have 1024 ip's for the whole country (outside the intranet). But that's not their fault. Star Joint Ventures is the North Korea-Thai joint company that handles it mostly.
      • Not only do they have an internet in North Korea...their egotistical vice president claims to have invented it too.

    • by sosume (680416)

      What about DNS? Won't the TLD providers be required to shut down all of .ir for example?

    • by Compaqt (1758360) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @04:38PM (#38140626) Homepage

      It might not be popular but: If you want the Internet to be a bastion for free speech, you have to have free speech for all (however repellent), not just for those with whom you agree.

      I just did a check, and some Iranian government websites (as given on Wikipedia) work, as they should, including those with a .com TLD.

      So why the special attention to Syria? Iran also put down an uprising a few years ago.

      If you don't agree with something, argue against it on your own website; don't shut down somebody else's.

    • Nk's website isn't run or paid for bythe n Korean government, but rather a 3rd party entity, the Korean friendship association. I know this because I'm also researching in hopes of visiting.

      To the sympathizer accuser below: I'm not going to show support for the regime. Or disapproval. I'm just extremely curious about the place. There's an added kick that I'd certainly be within the first 10'000 americans to step foot there since the war. And I like non standard vacations. Forget France or Britain, gimme Ban

      • by xaxa (988988)

        Forget France or Britain, gimme Bangkok, Cartagena or Pyongyang!!

        I think you should remove Bangkok from your list. Thailand is popular for Europeans to visit (probably others too?), especially rich, young ones. The usual reason for going is to do volunteer work, mature, etc (spoof video, meme in the UK [youtube.com]. Back at university, they recount stories of ordering a bucket of strong punch for $1 from a pretty woman on a beach, drinking it all, and partying until dawn, every day. (I'm sure it's a great place to visit, but I don't think of it as "non-standard").

        "847,198 British

        • i already did bangkok. My first trip out of the country. Fun place, i'd go back and see the rest of Thailand (and buy more suits for $75 each), except its a 20-24 hour flight from NYC (which is a 3 hour flight from me already).

          Went to cartagena this spring, very cool. I was expecting it to be a dangerous place, but (un)fortunately, nothing happened. I'm planning to return next year when i get some time off again.

          Cartagena is actually fairly popular with Europeans, it's American's that don't go, owing to fea

  • Huh (Score:4, Informative)

    by masternerdguy (2468142) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:39PM (#38139942)
    Just being alive seems to piss off the Syrian government.
  • by swb (14022) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:46PM (#38140034)

    Someone's willing to take money from political despots in the name of making a profit? Really? This is news?

    I'm not saying it's right, the number of Western businesses willing to sell repression tools to China, etc. really kind of makes me sick and I wish they could engage in more complex motivations than just "sales, sales, sales", but they're not.

    Was it Khrushchev who said the west would sell it the rope to hang us with?

    • by Osiris Ani (230116) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:51PM (#38140088)

      Was it Khrushchev who said the west would sell it the rope to hang us with?

      "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." -Lenin

    • by Baloroth (2370816)

      One could argue, and I think pretty well, that that mentality was instrumental in bringing down the USSR and is rapidly converting China towards capitalism. The mere act of buying the rope to hang someone from them implies, in a certain way, that that person is superior to you (at least at rope building) and maybe we shouldn't kill them after all. Or at least become better at rope building. This metaphor is stretching thin, but the point is dealing with hostile countries can often bring about reform.

  • well, (Score:5, Informative)

    by Black Parrot (19622) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:47PM (#38140046)

    Surely you don't expect people to let a little thing like "crimes against humanity" stop someone from making a buck.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      More like, you don't expect them to care/check what people are using their service as unless there are complaints(from powerful companies) do you? It's not like most companies would think of things like sanctions or whatnot. Also, how do you check if it's a person or a government doing the registering? Basically, it's alot of work to check for, for a insanely low occurring problem.

    • Bayer

      HIV, 1980s.

      http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000647_Bayer_vaccines_HIV.html [naturalnews.com]

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs [youtube.com]

      Not that anyone is going to hold them accountable....

      Apple's production line does massive environmental damage....

      Nearly every employer most people reading this have worked for always has these little 'keep this on the downlow SOPs' for ways they get around regulations/rules.....

      Yeah... like ethics ever mattered in the pursuit of cash.

      On a global scale, the view of success is measured wron

  • by rickett81 (987309) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @03:50PM (#38140080) Homepage
    There is no way that I can say that hosting a website is akin to crimes against humanity.

    Lets use this example?

    Lets suppose that 3 people go in and rob a bank. During this heist, they shoot someone who later dies. After the robbery/murder, they jump in an F150 and drive away. Does this mean that Ford is assisting armed robbery and capital murder? No!
    This is ludicrous.

    • That story only makes sense if you tell it like "Lets suppose that 3 robots go in and rob a bank.".
    • by bws111 (1216812)

      Your example has absolutely nothing to do with the actual circumstances. Syria is accused of crimes against humanity. As a result, sanctions have been placed on Syria. The purpose of the sanctions is to make life difficult for the government of Syria. By ignoring the sanctions, you are making their life a little less difficult.

      • by 0123456 (636235) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @04:08PM (#38140262)

        By ignoring the sanctions, you are making their life a little less difficult.

        Back in the real world, 'sanctions' normally have two results:

        1. They make the leaders rich as they control the supply of essential goods to the population.
        2. They make the population hate the 'sanctioners' more than they hate their government.

        • by bws111 (1216812)

          We are not talking about 'essential goods', we are talking about web hosting for the Syrian government.

          • by 0123456 (636235)

            We are not talking about 'essential goods', we are talking about web hosting for the Syrian government.

            Yeah, and? If sanctions against essential goods rarely work, why do you think sanctions against non-essential goods will work?

    • Now imagine they hire a lawyer who convinces the world that they are the victims here. That they are fine, upstanding citizens who would never do anything remotely like what they're accused of. That obviously it's all a conspiracy instituted by the the guy they got into a fight with during college. And imagine that somehow the world believes them and they go out and do it again a week later. Did the lawyer assist them in robbery and capital murder? Well, legally no. But ethically many would argue yes.

    • by artor3 (1344997)

      Did Ford know they were selling the car to a bunch of murderers? If so, then I'd say they're morally, if not legally, responsible. But of course, Ford wouldn't know that because no crime had yet been committed and there was no evidence crimes would be committed in the future.

      In the case of Syria, everyone with more than a childlike understanding of the outside world knows that they have been committing and continue to commit crimes against humanity. In an effort to get them to stop, the governments of th

    • by i.r.id10t (595143)

      And yet the manufacturer of the gun the robbers used can be sued... (has happened)

  • by br00tus (528477) on Tuesday November 22, 2011 @04:02PM (#38140200)

    Protests have been happening in Saudi Arabia, although I would barely know watching the corporate media in the US. In Qatif, the police open fired on the demonstrators - they have been in fact, slaughtering people there continually. The Saudi police have killed organizers of protests like Abdul-Ahad. Where are the calls for sanctions on Saudi Arabia in the West?

    Politicians keep saying there is a threat from radical Islam. Of course, Osama bin Laden, the mujahideen and nascent al Qaeda and Taliban were radical Islamists back when the USA was backing them to overthrow the secular Afghani government. Even before the Russians got involved. Israel complains about Hamas, but Israel used to secretly fund Hamas, as a bulwark against the PLO. And what about support for Saudi Arabia, probably more out there than Iran in terms of Islamic fundamentalism?

    If we look at history over the years, up to this very day without change, the west from the 1970s has always backed fundamentalist Islamists, and fought to overthrow secular regimes, of the Nasserite type - secular, with pan-Arab aspirations, talk of sovereignty from western powers and a vaguely socialist platforms, at least back when the Warsaw Pact was around. What governments has the west become involved since 9/11? Iraq, Libya and now Syria - all secular countries. Iraq has gone from a secular country, to one that with US troops on the ground has had its constitution changed to say its Islamic.

    The truth is that people like Osama bin Laden were radical Islamists who the US built up and created, and never cared about his terrorists acts against the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. They in fact, funded them - flag-wavers like Sylvester Stallone made movies lionizing the Islamic radicals. Secular, pan-Arab followers of Nasser like Qadaffi, Saddam Hussein etc. who were concerned with sovereignty have been the main targets and enemies. We can see what the US has done in Afghanistan to secular regimes, in Iraq which is now Islamic according to its constitution etc. The Saudi government is built up. Yet we are told we have to fear the radical Islamists, although that has been who the US has been supporting up to this day against the secular rulers who want sovereignty.

    • And what about support for Saudi Arabia, probably more out there than Iran in terms of Islamic fundamentalism?

      Iraq has gone from a secular country, to one that with US troops on the ground has had its constitution changed to say its Islamic.

      How Islamic is "Islamic"? Are you talking about the outward appearance? Saudi Arabia allowed the USA to have military bases in it's country, something which is strictly forbidden in Islam, although some scholars bought into the war propaganda and made an exception. Recently, the Saudi king has allowed women in congress, something else which is prohibited. Or how about the discrimination of foreigners who'd like to settle in the country? I can go on and on about Saudi Arabia.
      As for Iran, I'm surprised hardly

  • Fuck sanctions. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by unity100 (970058)
    "sanctions" now, and then "humanitarian intervention" later to bomb and install an american friendly islamist regime like in libya ? ironic that the SAME muslim brotherhood organization, which was behind the 'revolution' in libya, is also behind the one in syria. the same overarching organization. aaah, they are also the same muslim brotherhood which called for a sharia government in egypt, but thankfully, they were not in majority or power there after the revolution they effected.
    • by 0123456 (636235)

      I've never understood why America is working so hard to install Islamic governments throughout the Middle East either. I can only presume it's so they can immanentize the eschaton so the Christian nutters will be raptured away.

      • by unity100 (970058)
        islamicization and then ruling of the masses in middle east through sheiks + dynasties works, and it is a policy that is being practiced since 19th century, when british first did it.
      • by Baloroth (2370816)

        Well, obviously it's because Obama is a Muslim! It all makes sense now.

        /joke (since slashdot seems to need it)

      • by tehcyder (746570)

        I've never understood why America is working so hard to install Islamic governments throughout the Middle East either. I can only presume it's so they can immanentize the eschaton so the Christian nutters will be raptured away.

        The thing is, a majority of people in most Middle East countries are Muslims, so any democratic government is going to be Islamic. The attempts to prop up dictators like Mubarak have clearly failed.

  • All the Canadian website hosting providers have built-in scripts that add ", eh?" after random sentences.

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