ACTA Signed By 8 of 11 Participating Countries 213
An anonymous reader writes with this news on the ACTA treaty, straight from the EFF's release on the news: "On Saturday October 1st, eight countries (the United States, Australia, Canada, Japan, Morocco, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea) signed the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) in Tokyo, Japan. Three of the participating countries (the European Union, Mexico, and Switzerland) have not yet signed the treaty, but have issued a joint statement affirming their intentions to sign it 'as soon as practicable.' ACTA will remain open for signature until May 2013. While the treaty's title might suggest that it deals only with counterfeit physical goods such as medicines, it is in fact far broader in scope. ACTA contains new potential obligations for Internet intermediaries, requiring them to police the Internet and their users, which in turn pose significant concerns for citizens' privacy, freedom of expression, and fair use rights." Update: 10/20 13:24 GMT by T : As several readers have pointed out, the quoted news from the EFF describes the EU as a country; I'm sure they know it's not.
Countries? (Score:3, Informative)
The EU is not a country.
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Actually, meds are often counterfeited [who.int].
From the link:
1. Products without active ingredients, 32.1%;
2. Products with incorrect quantities of active ingredients, 20.2%;
3. Products with wrong ingredients, 21.4%,
4. Products with correct quantities of active ingredients but with fake packaging, 15.6%;
5. Copies of an original product, 1%; and
6. Products with high levels of impurities and contaminants, 8.5%.
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Define incorrect quantity. I take a drug that has 137ug of active ingredient per pill, since I take the generic they work that out by testing the active ingredient in X amount of pills and averaging. The name brand does this too but they use Y amount of pills and Y is less than X. Their tolerances are also closer, would my generic drug then fall under incorrect quantity of active ingredients?
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I dunno, but that sounds like a levothyroxin dosage, and turns out they're all over the map, both namebrand and generic. :(
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"Counterfeit drugs are quite often fake in that they contain more, less, or an entirely different drug than advertised."
Or so the big pharma propoganda tells us. And yes, anything issued by the FDA or DEA falls under that umbrella.
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Actually, even when they aren't outright counterfeit, the FDA doesn't have the resources to visit each and every product line on a regular basis. So, even if the line is legitimate there's no oversight guaranteeing that it works as advertised. On top of that generic time release medications often times have to use a different delivery system as the delivery system isn't covered by the same patent and is often times still valid.
When you cut cost on medication you run the risk of lowering the quality of the m
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The EU can sign on the behalf of its member countries, though it doesn't exercise that power often.
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If the US is a country, the EU is a country. Both are collections of states which were once independent nations. The days of dealing seperately with individual European states are numbered. Deal with it.
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It is 27 countries, that's more than have signed it ... ...and has a combined population larger than the USA ...
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It's 27 completely independent nations! Now let me just add up all their populations for a comparison as if it were a single place...
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Oh enough with this nonsense. The EU is no different than the US during the earlier period of the union when the states still retained most of their independent authority.
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ACTA has no basis in law in the US. Though it is a treaty the Whitehouse is treating it as an executive agreement. It is also a violation of the Constitution to have signed it. It restrains Congress from making laws and treaties, which the Constitution explicitly empowers them to do.
The IP Czar has already been caught with her pants down in collusion with the content industry. One needs to find out if her actions are illegal and/or an impropriety. This forces the other nations to comply with US law, bu
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I think you'll find the civil war put an end to that. You aren't a citizen of state x anymore.
Nation-states no friend to liberty (Score:2, Interesting)
The core problem here is that we have nation-states regulating the nationless internet.
The world's people are no longer divided by stupid, arbitrary national borders. And yet we still have these gigantic nation-states serving to limit our freedoms.
It is downright ironic that as we open up our capabilities, we move closer toward totalitarianism.
What we need now is to move beyond nation-states by implementing new forms of governance, starting at the community level.
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Well, one goal of ACTA is to unify the different IP policies of nationstates.
Re:Nation-states no friend to liberty (Score:5, Interesting)
The world's people are no longer divided by stupid, arbitrary national borders. And yet we still have these gigantic nation-states serving to limit our freedoms.
get this into your head: the way the world works and has always works is: the ruling class exists to have a great life and we, the 99%, exist to support them and serve them.
anything else you learn in life is secondary to THIS golden rule.
sorry, but its true. this 50 yr old guy has learned this much from his years out in the real world.
all else they tell you is food coloring. the real deal is to keep the lower and middle classes 'in line' and there is NOT going to be any personal freedom if it interferes with the ruling classes.
its how humanity is 'wired' and its always, always been this way. internet or not, people are controllers and those in power are NOT going to give in to this new peer-to-peer (person to person) method of bypassing their control.
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the ruling class exists to have a great life and we, the 99%, exist to support them and serve them.
...and/or invent a special machine to cut their heads off.
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The core problem is they are too many people, doing illegal and harmful stuff.
One of the biggest problems that we face is the difficultly for a small business to get a foot hold, while the big corporations take all the goods.
Part of the problem is those small business often only have the resources to advertise the same way that most of the conmen do. But there is enough of these people selling faulty/damaging goods only to make a quick buck that people shortly learn to ignore and tag these areas of adverti
Re:Nation-states no friend to liberty (Score:5, Insightful)
"The core problem is they are too many people, doing illegal and harmful stuff."
Yet people keep electing those criminals.
Honestly if you want to stop this, start electing people that are not rich and have real scruples.
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Unconstitutional? (Score:2)
Isn't there the question of whether this is unconstitutional here in America? I mean, didn't Obama sign it without it being passed by Congress?
Please let it be that Obama is vastly abusing power out of hopes that SCOTUS will get involved.
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Al Qaeda destroyed your constitution. Not physically, that would have been a regrettable loss of a historical artifact at most, but spiritually, which is much worse.
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Al Qaeda destroyed your constitution. Not physically, that would have been a regrettable loss of a historical artifact at most, but spiritually, which is much worse.
Nope, the americans destroyed their own constitution. They were bamboolzed into thinking that Al Quaeda was the coming on the devil on earth and that every possibile action was justified. What is the proverb is fitting to this historical situation "the road to hell is paved with good intentions " ?
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Don't kid yourself.
The Constitution has been ignored when convenient for far longer than the last ten years.
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GW bush and the Republicans AND Democrats destroyed it. But the destruction started back in the 50's it's just the last 10 years that sealed the deal.
Back a bit (Score:2)
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And the Korean war. Vietnam also slowed it down a bit, all those dirty hippies protesting against freedom for the Vietnam people...
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A few Supremes back in the New Deal caved, you mean?
Or did you forget the ruling that said that growing food for your own livestock on your own land came under the Interstate Commerce Clause?
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He didn't do it alone. Most other US politicians supported him and even today Obama continues on the same path. Throughout the leadership of both Republican and Democratic supermajorities over the years nothing has changed.
When did that start mattering? (Score:2)
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Killing someone without legal proceedings isn't constitutional either. A person is a person and is not the same as a citizen.
Re:Unconstitutional? (Score:4, Informative)
A Treaty signing is meaningless in the USA. A Treaty is NOT binding until it has been ratified by the Senate.
So, no, the fact that Congress didn't approve it in advance is meaningless, since they're not supposed to.
On the other hand, it has no force until the Senate approves it (which it will, almost certainly - there are enough Dems in bed with Hollywood to pass it on their own, even ignoring the Reps who would approve it).
Re:Unconstitutional? (Score:4, Informative)
In general you're right.
Unfortunately Obama is taking the position that all ACTA's provisions are compatible with existing US Law, so actual ratification is unnecessary.
Look at it this way:
If the Obama administration charges somebody with counterfeiting some product using the US Code the Courts are not gonna let the dude off because ACTA isn't ratified. They're gonna try the guy under the US Code. And, according to Obama, they'll convict if he actually violated ACTA because everything illegal under ACTA is illegal under the current US Code.
The people in charge of judging whether the US is complying with the treaty will have to count the dude's conviction as compliance.
In other words you shouldn't be worried about ACTA. Yopu should be worried that everything ACTA does is already illegal.
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Close ties? the Dems are dry humping the MPAA and RIAA. The republicans are just standing in line to Dry hump them as well right after they are done Dry humping all the billionaires and Big Corporations.
Every one of the scum-bags on both sides are against the American people. The assholes passed the bill for helping the 911 first responders 10 years late AND put in a slap in the face provision that you have to pass a background check to make sure you were not a terrorist. The people in the house and
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And they also added in a provision that the increased occurrence of cancer (which was the justification for the bill in the first place) is NOT covered because it cannot be scientifically proven that one caused the other...
How about this rule: if you rush into a collapsed building during a national emergency to save the lives of your fellow citizens, you get free insurance (health/life/car/whatever). I don't care if the two are related. Maybe we accidentally reward a hero with something we don't owe them. I
Re:Unconstitutional? (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't there the question of whether this is unconstitutional here in America?
You can't be serious. When it comes to corporate greed, The Constitution of the United States of America takes a back seat, pal. Corporations are citizens too (the Supreme Court has said so) and since they have all the money, they are the most important "citizens". Their unique needs outweigh those of you and me. Keep voting for candidates who are paid corporate lackeys, because the "free market" can't survive without government welfare/protection.
[/sarcasm] It's becoming clearer every day... Obama was a wasted draft pick.
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Keep voting for candidates who are paid corporate lackeys, because the "free market" can't survive without government welfare/protection.
[/sarcasm]
Is there a candidate who isn't a paid corporate lackey?
It's becoming clearer every day... Obama was a wasted draft pick.
Problem is ... the other weasel wasn't any better.
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As long as the GOP can't put forward a competent, qualified and sane candidate it's going to be hard for the Democrats to come up with somebody as dangerously incompetent as the ones that the GOP seeks out.
ACTA will be an "Executive Agreement" for the US (Score:3)
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_agreement [wikipedia.org] . ACTA walks, talks, and quacks like a treaty, but the President of the US can sign it without Congressional approval.
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The President doesn't need Congressional Approval to sign a Treaty (see Kyoto, which was signed, but not even submitted for ratification by Clinton).
And the President can make all the "executive agreements" he likes. Without a controlling law (passed by Congress), they don't mean a hill of beans.
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That's not a very informative link. Plus, it's President, not president, although the typo is probably more accurate at this point.
As you might note, they are the equivalent of an executive order and are not permanent in the same way that executive orders are not permanent. It's not a real treaty and it's not something that appears anywhere in the constitution. A real treaty would be durable over successive administrations.
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AFAIK the Senate has to ratify all treaties by a super majority (something like 60 or 67 senators in favour, even if the House passes it.
(Not that it matters of course I am sure the senators are all bought and paid for by the IP industry.
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"A republic, if you can keep it."
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In most states if the elector doesn't vote the way that the voters want there are some pretty substantial penalties attached.
But of course (Score:5, Insightful)
Many major corporations are in favor of ACTA, and no major corporations oppose it, so clearly, signing it is a no-brainer.
I'd have been more surprised if any of the countries in question had had the cajones to stand up to Disney, News Corp, GE, or Time Warner.
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News Corp is not - Murdoch is Australian, and much of News Corp's operations are in the UK (remember that whole phone hacking scandal?)
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As soon as practicable? (Score:4, Interesting)
They will sign it as soon as practicable? I thought that the European parliament and the Mexican one had explicitly instructed the commission and the Mexican government, respectively, not to sign ACTA in its current form
I suppose that's just a minor detail.
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The EP only wanted disclosure of the treaty, their problem was that it was written in secret. And I believe the EU did manage to get the worst parts out of it. Of course, it's still bad.
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And most music worth buying was made more than 10 years ago. They do not produce much good music these days. It will be difficult to make a "100 best hits from 2000-2010".
Bullshit. There's plenty of worthwhile new music being released today. My concert going schedule since June is proof of that. Just because it's not on the local Top 40 station doesn't mean it isn't good. Hell, I haven't listened to the radio in 16 or 17 years and I still find new bands regularly.
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Really? Wasn't France going to be doing that on its own in the near future?
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Do you know why Soviet Union was c
Decentralize and encrypt everything! (Score:5, Interesting)
Alright shit's getting real. I say as a first step we start by moving everyone onto a Tor-like darknet that runs on top of the current infrastructure. Once the uber-geeks are on we can start bringing Average Joes on, the incentive will kick in for them when they can't get their football game streams, replica handbags, Chinese knockoff batteries, cheap viagra and pirated MP3s. Maybe work in an IPv4-IPv6 transition at the same time, but that's just as much work by itself.
Then once everyone's on the darknet, start forking the infrastructure. Once the Internet becomes impossible to police there might not be a need to use a wireless mesh, everyone can have fiber to their door - not that a wireless mesh isn't also a worthy endeavor.
See also: my old commu-net concept: http://search.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1634334&cid=32019410 [slashdot.org]
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You may be interested in metagovernment [metagovernment.org], which is developing tools toward the same end, but maybe without the file-sharing rampup.
Along a similar line, you might also be interested in their concept of the distributed administration network [metagovernment.org], previously discussed at length on slashdot [slashdot.org]. Admittedly, that is still vaporware, but the alternate system of governance is starting up.
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Oh yes I think metagovernment is an interesting concept. I had an interesting discussion about something similar here:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1244451&cid=28083111 [slashdot.org]
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...start forking the infrastructure.
The regulatory powers of government allows control over any physical infrastructure, particularly an infrastructure large enough to replace the entire internet. It's more realistic to do the hard work of changing government to eliminate monstrosities like ACTA. Hint: it takes a lot more than just voting and complaining.
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You mean like an Invisible Internet Protocol [i2p2.de]?
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Something like that could be at least part of the solution. I2P has some interesting advantages over Tor, I think I'll start running some I2P routers...
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It's going to take more than Tor though. Setting up a parallel physical infrastructure isn't really practical, so any effective
Orwell is probably laughing in his grave, by now. (Score:3, Insightful)
Game over (Score:4, Insightful)
Well people, the age of your relative freedom is definitely over when this is ratified.
Welcome to the neo dark age. This time not ruled by the church but by Megacorp & co that is called the western world.
What about Iceland and Norway? (Score:2)
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Switzerland is not a member of the EU ...
What happened to putting it to a vote? (Score:2)
Your own government (Score:5, Insightful)
Functionally, in areas where corporate interests dictate policy it is no longer your government. "Let them vote for cake" is where things are headed; serious self government is being removed gradually; like boiling a frog.
Why the piracy icon? (Score:2)
--Coder
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Slashdot doesn't have a "boot, stamping on a human face, forever" icon.
info about what's bad about it? (Score:2)
So what are the actual problems remaining with ACTA as it is signed?
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Constitutional scholar (Score:3)
Now we know why Obama became a "constitutional scholar," to be able to figure out more ways around it when he came to power.
Obstruction is good (Score:2)
Right now a Democratic (yes, not Republican) senator is trying to obstruct Obama from bypassing Senate ratification of this treaty. Obama is of course trying to use his constitutional knowledge to avoid that.
Constitutionality does not have to be partisan.
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Re:Americans at it again (Score:4, Funny)
I thought the whole "war on...XXX" thing was a way to learn some geography.
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"Poverty" is a place?
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Keep telling yourself that. I got news for you the EU mostly controls your currency. Has the power to make treaties, and has courts. In most cases EU law has supremacy over member states laws. That is pretty much a nation by any definition. The EU is a central government. It might not be as strong as the Federal government we have here in the states but it is none the less a central government.
Its time EU citizens face up to the fact YOU FOOLS gave up the sovereignty of your to make quick buck by strea
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I knew Americans are generally quite stupid...
All that seething hatred is bad for your health. Just relax and admit the USA is THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH! Woooooo! USA! USA!
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Parent post would be funny; I'd normally moderate it as such but I'm skipping moderating it to say that the situation in the stupid USA is beyond despair so there is no longer any humor in such statements; its just depressingly sad and horrible - perhaps if you are on the outside you are removed or ignorant enough to enjoy such humor but being here and watching the self-inflicted implosion is another matter.
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"I knew Americans are generally quite stupid and don't know anything about the world outside North America, "
Most Americans don't know anything about north America, the United states, or even their own state. There is a large percentage of our population that has no idea how many states there are or even the number of stars or stripes on our flag. Education here is exceedingly bad because it's high priced.
In fact Student DEBT is higher than credit card DEBT nationally. Yes, our education system is that
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Either that, or students tend to be poor enough that they have to borrow, and adults tend to be smart enough not to run up debt unnecessarily....
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Look around you fool.
I heard that in a Mr T. voice.
The US started out a lot like the EU (Score:2)
Even now we are technically a federation of sovereign states which granted specific limited powers to a federal government in order to take advantage of the security and economic benefit that comes from being united. The states and the people supposedly retained all other powers not specifically granted to the federal government.
But you see what we have become. You see yourself in 50 years, your countries relegated to what the federal power allows.
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You obviously aren't familiar with Canadian politics over the last few years or you wouldn't be even slightly surprised...
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19 months late. But, in this case the Europeans do that stupid day month year crap which makes even less sense than the American month day year crap which makes less sense than year month date, which quite frankly is the only one that folks should be using.
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The problem?
The ACTA treaty confers powers with dangerously broad and ambiguous language - an example is language to ban:
So legitimate purposes that are significant, but can be made out not to be commercially significant, won't protect you. Education and research purposes, and fair use gone, at one stroke!
The inter