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Russia Wanted To Shut YouTube Down For Piracy 122

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the sharing-is-bad-for-you dept.
ge7 writes "A recently leaked confidential diplomatic cable reveals Russia's growing interest in shutting down copyright infringing websites. 'Russia's Deputy Minister of Economic Development said that not only do U.S. sites continue to offer pirated Russian movies, but that YouTube and Google should be shut down for not respecting local laws'. The U.S. government has previously attacked torrent and link sites hosted elsewhere in the world, extradited foreign nationals for piracy and provided training on how to shut down piracy websites. 'Voskresenskiy went on to state that, in his opinion, no country in the world is prepared to fight Internet piracy. He argued that all existing laws, including laws in the U.S., are antiquated and do not address new technological trends. As an example, [Voskresenskiy] stated that YouTube and Google (as YouTube's owner) should be shut down because they do not conform to current Russian IPR laws. He admitted that this was not feasible, but continued to emphasize that these entities need to follow local laws, even if the laws are outdated,' the cable adds."
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Russia Wanted To Shut YouTube Down For Piracy

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  • . Yep, Google Translate just proved that irony exists in Russian too.

  • by DurendalMac (736637) on Tuesday September 06, 2011 @05:35PM (#37320884)
    ...there are an unholy amount of crooks cranking out malware, extortionware, and everything else under the sun for profit, not to mention PLENTY of people hosting and even selling pirated goods.

    Clean up yer own shit before crying about the US, Vosk. You have one hell of a dirty house.
    • by Dan667 (564390)
      I better answer would be that governments should not be involved in these entertainment businesses at all.
    • by ge7 (2194648) on Tuesday September 06, 2011 @05:42PM (#37320942)
      I think the main point here is that U.S. should clean up their own shit first. Like he said "that this was not feasible". U.S. has a long history of attacking Russia and other countries for copyright theft while ignoring that U.S. itself has the same problems. Russia here seems to understand that, U.S. doesn't.
      • by Kenja (541830) on Tuesday September 06, 2011 @06:14PM (#37321166)
        Try going to said other countries and you'll see the problem. You cant even find legitimate copies of software or movies, and while movies may be one thing, software is another. For some reason I dont trust the $1 copy of Photo Shop to be free of malicious additions.
        • by ge7 (2194648)
          .. which makes it even more ironic that U.S. is demanding those countries to fix the problem while they themselves have it too.
        • For some reason I dont trust the $1 copy of Photo Shop to be free of malicious additions.

          If a $1 "copy of Photoshop"* bears the digital signature of the GIMP team, then I'll probably trust it.

          * In the SCO sense that Linux is a copy of UNIX.

        • It used to be like in Russia, but the situation generally changed about 4-5 years ago. The shops selling pirated software compilations at every corner disappeared (they might still exist somewhere). I used to pirate games, now I just do not bother, I just pick up the localized Russian version for half the US price at the local mall, it's usually already available at game's launch.
        • by AmiMoJo (196126)

          It's okay, the same guy can sell you Norton Anti-Virus for another $1.

        • But then again, I don't know a single person that has original Photoshop, because the price is absurd. How is it acceptable that an image editing software costs almost as much as an entire computer?

      • by geekmux (1040042)

        I think the main point here is that U.S. should clean up their own shit first. Like he said "that this was not feasible". U.S. has a long history of attacking Russia and other countries for copyright theft while ignoring that U.S. itself has the same problems. Russia here seems to understand that, U.S. doesn't.

        I'm sorry, it's become rather impossible to see your point here. The thick fog of irony over .ru standing up and bitching about piracy and copyright still has most of us reeling here, postulating between utter disbelief and uncontrollable laughter.

        In the battle to prove who needs to clean up who's shit first or more...sorry .ru, but you lost long ago with that one.

        • I'd say the point holds on both sides. Whatever country your from, you should sort out your own issues before telling other countries, otherwise we enter a situation where it's countries telling each other "Do as I say, not as I do.

          • by geekmux (1040042)

            I'd say the point holds on both sides. Whatever country your from, you should sort out your own issues before telling other countries, otherwise we enter a situation where it's countries telling each other "Do as I say, not as I do.

            You mean like when politicians consume thousands of gallons of jet fuel and generate tons of CO2 to fly their entire "ensemble" all around the world to talk to other countries about how we should all be more "green"?

            You bring a very good point, but I'd say the problem tends to start and end with the overinflated egos of our elected officials, especially as their efforts tend to shift from public representation to personal gain. Happens all the damn time.

      • by cyn1c77 (928549)

        I think the main point here is that U.S. should clean up their own shit first. Like he said "that this was not feasible". U.S. has a long history of attacking Russia and other countries for copyright theft while ignoring that U.S. itself has the same problems. Russia here seems to understand that, U.S. doesn't.

        Copyright theft is so much more blatant in Russia and many other countries (China) than it is in the US. Also, I am willing to bet that US companies (Hollywood) lose way more money due to international copyright theft than do Russian ones. So your logic doesn't really hold.

        Nothing is stopping the Russians from blocking any offending websites. They can be just like the Chinese... lock down the internet and then profit from selling pirated DVDs.

        • by Coren22 (1625475)

          Also, last time I checked, Youtube does not post videos on its own, and has a very easy way to report illegal videos. If Russia is so concerned about Youtube, perhaps they need to start reporting the videos and have them removed...

    • by Anonymous Coward

      ...there are an unholy amount of crooks cranking out malware, extortionware, and everything else under the sun for profit, not to mention PLENTY of people hosting and even selling pirated goods.

      Clean up yer own shit before crying about the US, Vosk. You have one hell of a dirty house.

      Ah but those people are paying them to be ignored, these dirty American corporations haven't given their "donations" yet.

    • ...not only do U.S. sites continue to offer pirated Russian movies, but that YouTube and Google should be shut down for not respecting local laws'

      Well, how do you like THEM apples. Speaking of apples, or at least Apple Corps Ltd. [wikipedia.org] it doesn't feel so good to be on the other side, no? If they want to criticize US-based companies for not respecting local laws, maybe they should look at sites like this [mp3fiesta.com], which I believe is the former AllofMP3.

      I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, but man, this is the pot calling the kettle black. I guess in Soviet Russia, YouTube pirates you!

  • This seems to be the main violation they refer to:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8 [youtube.com]

  • It isn't malice that ruins the world, it is malfeasance. The leaders of the world are completely and utterly stuck in the paradigm that only the people they control are people, and then only so long as they control them. It has nothing to do with conspiracy or evil... these people honestly do not know how to govern correctly, because those who learn how to do that understand how our social systems would never let them do so, and thus never attempt to control government.

    Humanity if very quickly approaching the point at which we will have to restructure not just our political systems, but our society and our economy as a species. I doubt we make it out of this century as anything other than a sad afterimage if we don't.

    The fact that people do not believe such a thing is "realistic" only further highlights how bent on self-destruction humans are. We have collectively decided to let our non-cognitive processes guide our decision making, and then we created social structures to reinforce that process. Are people honestly surprised that we are burning out our energy reserves, that we have huge gaps in wealth, that we have enough food to feed everyone but don't do it, or that we constantly make decisions which provide no way to plan for the consequences of our choices?

    That is the expected outcome of our society as it is right now, and it is not our leaders that are responsible, it is you and it is me and it is them. Species scale problems cannot be solved by or blamed on one group, one person, or one class. If they make the wrong decisions it is because you and me let them. If they try to make the right decisions but are stopped, that is also our fault.

    But fault and blame solve no problems, provide no solutions, and give us no answers. So if you really, truly, desire to see change within our society, the most productive thing you can do to bring that about it so end your own hypocrisy and embody the wisdom that you feel you can explain to others. Once you understand what the solution is, you either start working on bringing it about, or you are part of the problem.

    Sometimes I wish I'd been born in a different time... it seems that my generation, and those before me, have decided to subsist through our existence like a blind drunkard wandering through a dream. One day maybe. I hope. But right now, the things revealed by the cables on Wikileaks do not surprise me. If they surprise you, ask yourself if there was really any other possibility within our society for the things we now learn of. This is the society we all asked for, don't act surprised when you find out we got it.
    • by MarkvW (1037596)

      "Species level problems" really don't have much to do with the possible shutdown of Youtube.

      You should voice your concerns on a Youtube video!

      • by JordanL (886154)
        This article was about two things, IMO:

        1. The possible shutdown of YouTube because of IP laws.
        2. The greater topic of the WikiLeaks cables that have been released.

        I chose to talk about the second. I guess most of Slashdot agrees with you though, since my post was modded Offtopic.
    • by ewibble (1655195)

      I have a couple Ideas: Just Ideas I maybe wrong

      Governance:
      I think transparency is the key every thing should be revealed eventually including reasoning. Everybody is corruptible and fallible so politicians need to be aware that they will be judged eventually (some things need to be secret for now but not for ever). But along with transparency we need the public to be more accepting of failure and mistakes from our politicians they are just human no better or worse than we are.

      Economy.
      I believe sharing is t

    • by Xest (935314)

      You're right about the problem and right that something needs to change.

      The problem is how you go about organising and managing that sort of change and the fact is, current governing structures are the best we've managed to implement so far.

      Your solution is fantasy, you suggest that if as an individual you figure out "the solution", then you should work to implement that. You seem to miss the point that there's another 6.5bn people out there also trying to implement their ownh, often different and opposing

      • by JordanL (886154)
        Only if we hold to society's currently held view that it is not in your best interest to help others. The paradigm shift that has to happen is not "we need to take action". People must eventually realize that it is in their best interest to help other people become better people however they feel they should.

        I stated several times that the human race doesn't appear ready for this. But it will become a necessity. I do not see it as fantasy, it is an eventuality. It may not happen in my lifetime, but it wi
        • by Xest (935314)

          I think you're assuming it's a social issue that can be solved through education, rather than an inherent issue with human psychology.

          The fundamental point is that we might in fact well die back somewhat, that is a natural result of every other species that exists when it becomes populated beyond a sustainable point, in fact we've even seen it happen with the human race before. So many wars have been the result of a battle for resources where one group felt desperate enough to risk their lives to acquire gr

          • by JordanL (886154)
            If it can't be solved through education inherently, then humans are not nearly as sentient as we claim to be.

            I guess that's what it really comes down to. I don't think that modifying the gene pool drastically is a good idea either, but I think that the human cognitive process is capable of understanding certain things. Because of that, I believe that we can take all the basic personality types and change the frame of reference, the paradigm, to something more useful or harmonious.

            If not... I hope we s
            • by Xest (935314)

              I don't think it's that we're not sentient, I think it's that the universe is an unimaginably complex chaotic system and we can't possibly know what has an effect on what.

              We don't recognise that we have natural tendencies that seem irrational but hold a perfectly valid evolutionary reason for it's existence.

              Part the problem is also that some of these things touch on sensitive areas which are simply too taboo for any scientist hoping to have a career lasting more than 5 minutes to study. There's of course th

  • Laws are like contracts (both are subsets of rules) - with very little effort (easier with less effort, actually), you can very simply create laws that are nearly impossible to follow or obey... except for a few people who the law was written to support.

    Obeying all laws, in all countries is like obeying any contract anyone in the world would have you sign. It's going to end up excluding everyone from everything once you mix them all together.

    Laws are important - they are what define what is important for a

    • by Kjella (173770)

      Politicians have been struggling with this since the dawn of the Internet, it's like extending the "If I stand on Canada's side of the border and fire a gun into the US, whose laws apply?" except with the Internet youtube.com sends bits and bytes into the homes of millions of Russians. Essentially they have three options:

      1. Ignore it, which is de facto accepting that they've lost all ability to enforce the law and that anything that's legal outside the country is as good as legal inside the country. This is

      • by poetmatt (793785)

        The long story short of it is you can't bend society to follow a law that they themselves do not care for. You could make circumventing censorship illegal but if people want to avoid censorship they will do so regardless of the penalty.

        There is no solution that will stop this copyright thing because the RIAA/MPAA/international equivalents (which seem to be completely controlled by RIAA/MPAA) are the only folks bothered by this stuff, mostly because of their legacy businesses. Meanwhile, nobody else even giv

      • by JWW (79176)

        I'll take option one, thanks. It's only been the defacto standard for the internet for a couple of decades.

        The Internet isn't broken, copyright law is!

        I view the internet as one of the top five creations of mankind. While recorded music and movies are nice, they are not that important.

  • There is a strong likelihood that anything that Russia would be complaining about is the intellectual property of a country that no longer exists.

    They are probably trying to exert ownership and control of the works of the people created under during the Soviet regime.

    • There is a strong likelihood that anything that Russia would be complaining about is the intellectual property of a country that no longer exists.

      They are probably trying to exert ownership and control of the works of the people created under during the Soviet regime.

      Given that Russian Federation is officially a successor state of the USSR, recognized as such by UN, and taking over all rights and obligations (including e.g. external debt), why shouldn't it exert ownership and control of the works copyrighted under Soviet regime?

      • Any Treaties signed by Ivan evaporated when the U.S.S.R. collapsed. What the empire of the tired bear did was unilaterally abide by those vary treaties. And by current market activity these days, maybe the bear wasn't so tired or so old after all.
    • by Xest (935314)

      Yeah, because all Russians have been sat sleeping for the last 20 years and haven't actually produced anything since the fall of the USSR.

      Yes. 20 years.

      It seems a little odd to assume they've not produced any IP or content worth protecting in 20 years, but somehow had some worth protecting before that. Not to mention that Russia took on all the obligations of the former USSR so is actually just a continuation of that entity albeit with some big changes. The USSR didn't simply vanish out of existence and ce

  • And in other news, Satan demands the residents of Hades put out their camp fires.

  • Torrents ?= Google (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bmacs27 (1314285) on Tuesday September 06, 2011 @05:54PM (#37321044)
    It's a good question. Is a torrent tracker any more liable for copyright infringement than Google?
  • by Anonymous Coward

    The best way to prevent your stuff being pirated is to make it EASY and CHEAP for people to get it from you directly!

  • I want to shut Russia down for piracy too

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-4 [wikipedia.org]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_program [wikipedia.org]

    thats just two, i am sure i can dig up more
    • by h4rr4r (612664)

      The Tupolev was a copy, the Buran was not a total copy. It involved some industrial espionage, but we do that to. Buran was mostly a Russian design, they were also smart enough to cancel it after only one flight, unlike our shuttle program.

    • Soviet Union only joined the Universal Copyright Convention in 1973, and did not have any (with a few minor exceptions) international agreements regarding copyright before that. Accordingly, it (and Russia, being its successor state) does not recognize copyright on earlier foreign works.

      As for Buran, its semblance to the Shuttle is mostly superficial based on appearance - much like people often think that AK derives from StG44, or consider Vz 58 a variation of AK, just because they look somewhat similar.

      • Soviet Union only joined the Universal Copyright Convention in 1973

        Doesn't matter. The Uruguay Round Agreements Act of 1994 restored U.S. copyright in all post-1922 works first published in any Berne Convention member state. (All WTO members are Berne Convention members.) This is being challenged (Golan v. Holder).

        • I wasn't saying that US does not respect pre-1973 Soviet/Russian works - it does. However, Russia does not respect [wikipedia.org] pre-1973 foreign works (with some exceptions pertaining to CIS states and a few other countries which had bilateral agreements with the USSR predating UCC and Berne). This is because of an explicit reservation Russia made when joining the Berne convention, denying retroactivity - similar to what US did before Uruguay, but as yet unchanged.

      • by modecx (130548)

        The Vz 58 is a lot closer to a cross between the StG44 and SKS, in that it has a striker based action, with the a piston action similar to the SKS's short stroke piston and also the open top breach design.

        But, yeah, it'd be foolish to think there weren't a few StG44s running around Kalashnikov's shop when he set about making the AK.

  • One is over copyright infringement, and I think many people here are against the enforcement that Voskresenskiy desires.

    The other, however, is whether giant multi-national corporations should have to bend to the law of individual nations outside their central base -- and this is a much more interesting issue, one that may bring dire consequences if we continually tell Google, et al. that they do not need to concern themselves with anything but US law.

  • If an internet site has to comply with the local laws in every jurisdiction from which it is accessible, you would have an utterly farcical situation...
    Plenty of countries have laws which make it illegal to display content which is contrary to their regime, and some countries even require all content to be censored.

    Imagine trying to comply with the laws of Myanmar or North Korea...

    A website should only be beholden to the laws in the country from which it is hosted and/or operated.... And speaking of Russia, isn't that how allofmp3 worked? Blatantly ignoring US laws, but complying with Russian laws.

    • by AmiMoJo (196126)

      Blatantly ignoring US laws, but complying with Russian laws.

      And that is exactly why Russia has come out with this. If the US expects Russia to comply with its requests for shutting down web-sites then the US had better be prepared to comply with Russian requests too. Obviously the US isn't going to shut down YouTube and Google, so now any requests they send to Russia can be simply ignored.

    • by Clsid (564627)

      I think the easy solution for each country that complains about that is to block said website until they can produce a local version. Blizzard had to do that with World of Warcraft in China since they didn't allow to show corpses when you died. Blizzard then changed that to small coffins and along other changes, the Chinese govt gave them the go ahead. So it can be done while still being respectful of each culture.

  • My question is, "Russia makes movies?" Who knew?
  • Russia has clueless Republican politicians, too, I see.
    • by travbrad (622986)

      The Democrats push heavily for "anti-piracy" too, probably more than the Republicans actually.

  • Can't say I have ever personally seen, legally or other wise, heard of, heard people discussing, seen advertised, seen awarded or anything else to any Russian films, the closest is pirated American films with Russian subs. I'm not saying there aren't any Russian films or indeed any good ones, but I wouldn't say it's a massive part of piracy outside of Russia or Russians. And if they don't like these sites because they don't respect local laws why not just block them in Russia, China did it.
    • by Tjp($)pjT (266360)
      At one point in Ukraine I bought what I thought was a DVD of Zorro (The Mask of Zorro, 1998) with a Russian language track. What it turned out to be was a copy of the Legend of Zorro, with a Russian language track. This was a used DVD for sale before the theatrical release of the movie. Professionally created, not a DVD-R but a real DVD, and printed insert, jacket, etc. And a nice Russian tax authority holographic stamp, and a Ukrainian one applied overlapping the Russian one where it was taxed coming into
  • Does Russia even have any video that isn't pr0n or pirated from the US or pr0n?
  • 1. Offer pirated Russian movies.
    2. ???
    3. Profits!

  • One jurisdiction cannot dictate the terms to another independent jurisdiction. Russia, for example, sells CDs that contain whole sets of albums in MP3 format at a cheap price that while legal in Russia (the contracts were set per disk, before people thought about higher compression allowing multiple albums on one CD). The import of those albums into the US is restricted (on a commercial not personal basis, so go to Russia and buy one, fine, buy one and have it shipped, not so good).

    So, in the Internet age,
    • You really don't understand what the phrase "Information wants to be free," means, do you? The problem with piracy has never been the distribution of content, though I understand if you got that impression from the RIAA/MPAA circus. You can take your jurisdictions, treaties, content flags, and filters to armor up and close every gap in the distribution chain, except one: the gap between the screen and the eye. The analog hole is uncloseable, and it is why efforts that function only in distribution spa
  • This is stupid (Score:2, Informative)

    by flibbidyfloo (451053)

    Two points:

    First, I doubt "Russia" gives a frozen rat's ass about what YouTube does. I'm sure the MPAA or a foreign equivalent is 99% responsible for this.

    Second, statements like "entities need to follow local laws" are just plain stupid and wrong. Only LOCAL entities need to follow local laws.
    If some kid in Russia downloads an illegal movie, throw him in your gulag. Reductio ad absurdum: If it's against the law in Russia to use car headlights after 11pm, and someone in Finland drives along the border, thei

  • Summary is all wrong, for once government official said something, that made sence: "It is stupid and impossible to try and get the internet in compliance with outdated laws, that were creating when the tech available to us was barely imaginable." Oh, and it totally made sence pointing out that US is attempting to bring internet to compliance with US laws is retarded, as every country has it's laws, and, for example google and youtube are in violation of Russia's laws.

  • I like that when some guy in the US makes a statement, slashdot titles "some guy say..." or maybe "the republicans/democrats say.." etc. But when it happens in some heathen foreign country, the country is personified under the assumption that the reader would not know or care who the speaker is.

    Reminds me of a board game called diplomacy I used to play in high school, where during the diplomacy phase you would get up from the table saying something like "can I talk to france"? and then once you were in a
  • No doubt the oligarchs have seen what an effective tool false copyright infringement claims have been in the civilised world - a no-trial, no-evidence way of cutting off websites that displease the authorities - and are keen to use them to give their future repressive moves a veneer of legality.
  • ....they have their own criminals for that

  • Of a lawless third-world nation like Russia wanting to clamp down on piracy would be hysterical in almost any other situation. I mean -- this is the nation that apparently protects spammers as if they're heads of state.

  • -- Why? When you're bigger than Pirate Bay or other search engines, it's ok after all?

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