The London Riots and Facial Recognition Technology 482
nonprofiteer writes "A bunch of vigilantes are organizing a Google Group dedicated to using recently revealed facial recognition tools to identify looters in the London riots. While Vancouver discussed doing something similar after the Stanley Cup riots, the city never actually moved forward on it. Ring of Steel London, though, is far more likely to incorporate FRT into its investigative work."
A related article points out how development of face-recognition technology has been kept under wraps by some organizations, but we're getting to the point where it'll soon be ubiquitous.
Really? Vigilantes? (Score:5, Insightful)
Could we find a more loaded term than that? I don't think so. Heaven forbid some folks actually try to glom together and do good.
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And it's not even an accurate use off the term to boot.
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i believe that's the correct word.
Re:Really? Vigilantes? (Score:5, Informative)
Why on earth would your beliefs be in any way relevant? Are you aware that the machine in front of you allows you to search for information so that you can test your beliefs. Shocking, eh?
The key point of the definition is that a vigilante takes extra-legal action; a vigilante is one who acts outside of the existing legal framework. Publishing the identity of the looters is not operating outside of the law. In fact it actually supports the official effort to identify looters from video shot during the riots. Only acting on the identities to go and mete out some kind of illegal retribution would be vigilante action, and as there is no suggestion that they will do so the use of the word is loaded as the GP originally stated.
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In an European context, vigilantes are also criminals, as the only organization which is allowed to use force is the state, which is legitimatized by the citizens.
On a side note: The problems in the UK are the same as in France or other countries. You people without a perspective and treated as second class citizens do not accept the state as their institution. They perceive the state as their enemy. In the UK they used CCTV to keep these people under surveillance which results in two things:
a) Crimes move
Re:Really? Vigilantes? (Score:5, Interesting)
You people without a perspective and treated as second class citizens do not accept the state as their institution. They perceive the state as their enemy. [..] People get even more suppressed (at least they feel that way) which can erupt at any time.
slightly off-topic. this msnbc blog entry [msn.com] shows some interesting insight in the dynamics of the group:
a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"
The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."
Re:Really? Vigilantes? (Score:5, Interesting)
Mod parent up. When people are out of "civilised" ways to put across their message, they resort to violence. This isn't violence with a direct aim - e.g. as the violence by the US in the Middle East is subjugation of strategically important areas - this is violence as a way of saying "I'm fed up and someone to take notice!" If you loved your society, you wouldn't destroy it. If, as a young man (or teen, it seems), you do not feel a sense of belonging and love and support - if you are not given the opportunity to contribute - then why would you value what is around you?
The looters coming in after the riots are being emphasised because it's pretty hard to argue about the social plight of someone who runs off with a 42 inch TV "because I can". There is a massive PR exercise to paint this as merely thieves thieving. There's also a PC exercise to avoid pointing out the cultural make-up of rioters - predominantly black in some areas, white in others - because people are so afraid of thinking they're implying "black people are criminals!" rather than "youths in black communities in central London are alienated and have no voice, no meaningful representation and no opportunity to do anything about it". We have moved on from overt police racism of the '80s (and well done to the police for doing that) but we have not moved on from the power dominance of a single culture in Britain.
Unfortunately, in any class struggle (sorry, Torys, that's exactly what it is!), these sorts of organic riots tend to result in more oppression. It may do something to raise awareness, but absent an organised army it is only joint peaceful action which tends to effect change. In particular, had the unions not been so far up New Labour's arse over the last decade that the wider working population would be forgiven for remembering who they were created to serve, they would have opposed changing market and labour conditions.
In short, it still takes a village to raise a child. Even the most stable and loving family (which, as anyone knows, inner London is full of) can only do so much. When the average boy turns 16 - and we're not talking about the geniuses of the world, but the majority of average ability - society has the choice to lift him up or to leave him to fend on his own. Where resources exceed demand, he might be able to do the latter. Where they do not, what should he endure? And, if you have not helped him, what gives you the right to tell him what is right and wrong? Even if you think you have some natural superiority, what makes you think the young man will listen?
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> When people are out of "civilised" ways to put across their message, they resort to violence
It's 2011. There are a gazillion ways to put across your message, completely for free. You're using one of them right now.
Re:Really? Vigilantes? (Score:4, Insightful)
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The fact that you got modded down for that shows the child like mentality of the moderators on here. Teenagers don't get irony and of course they're never to blame either - its always someone else fault.
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In any other country a lot of those rioters would have been shot dead already , its only in namby pamby liberal britain run by hand wringing excuse everything muppets like you where we let them burn the place down.
I think you'll find that the sort of countries who shoot rioters are indistinguishable from those that shoot peaceful protesters, and tend not to have many friends. Even Greece, a country with a relatively recent fascist past, only shot one protester in their recent riots, as I recall, and countries like France also try not to shoot people if they don't have to.
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The UK is a centre left country with respect to the USA, we have a fully free health service and a huge range of other social benefits to help the less well off and the less able to live decent lives. Unfortunately there is a group of people who don't want to be part of our society, whether its through greed, loss of hope because of lack of opportunity or expectations set by left wing apologists isn't clear. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the bulk of tax payers view this current rioting as nothing
Re:Really? Vigilantes? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's an indictment of the press, nothing more.
I live in Clapham Junction about 100m from the center of the riots there. I was down there there watching. Most of the kids (and they were kids) were having a great time, throwing bottle and having a laugh - I didn't see anyone I'd describe as angry.
All night people were wandering up my street stashing loot in rubbish bins, then coming back later to collect and load into cars that were doing the rounds. Nice cars, bit boy-racerish for me but not cheap. The ones that were seen "stealing milk and baby clothes" were no more significant than the ones stealing shampoo - there are cases of it on my street - and I suspect they were just a little late to the party. A friends sister saw her neighbours kids walking home with a TV each - a 2 bedroom house on that street will go for £400,000.
Yes, there's undoubtedly some alienation but there bigger problem is the unwarranted sense of entitlement - "I deserve a TV", "I'm getting my taxes back". As a genuine guardian reading, hand-wringing socialist leftie I didn't see a great deal of urban alienation on display, but I did see a great deal of self-absorbed greed.
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Britain hasn't had a recent history of long-term police oppression of freedoms following riots in the style familiar even to Europeans and Americans. What is more, any such action may raise group awareness: "I'm not the only one who feels like this, though I see rioting will not solve the problem." There's always a segment of society that would want anyone who isn't like them to be put in chains and into forced labour, but it's not pervasive. You're right that it will make things feel worse in the shorter t
Re:Really? Vigilantes? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nevertheless there is a significant number of people in this country who feel they have no voice - and that's not just those who resort to violence, but the hard working, law abiding too. Look at the way Blair ignored 1.5 million people turning up on his doorstep to protest going to war in Iraq. Look at the way there were thousands of students protesting tuition fees peacefully yet the media was dominated by the handful who decided to break things. If the people in power constantly refuse to acknowledge the voice of the masses (and people feel they have no real representation at the polls, when every party seems to have the same approach of empowering the powerful and taxing the poor and even the party they supported can volte face on their promises) then this is always going to be the end result sooner or later.
It doesn't legitimise their actions in any way, but it damn well helps to explain them. I see politician after politician on the news this week saying they can't understand why people would react this way - THAT is scary, it should be blindinly obvious why people are reacting this way and the politicians should be talking about how they deal with the factors that cause this reaction, not trying to blame it all on mindless yobs.
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No, it doesn't help to explain them at all. Did 1.5 million people riot in London just because they were ignored? Nope. Because these were ordinary, civilized, and decent people.
The truth is, these rioters are hopeless waste-of-spaces that have no respect for anything or anyone, and are just looting and vandalizing for no reason other than "it's a bit of a laugh" or "I can get away with it, so why not". These really are the type of scum that you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.
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It's only a loaded term if you have a belief that vigilantism is always inherently bad.
Personally, I'm not convinced it is, so to see them called vigilantes doesn't give me a bad impression those folks.
Sometimes vigilantes can be real heroes, sometimes they can be complete idiots. Take the case in hand and decide for yourself what kind of vigilantes they are, don't assume they're always inherently bad.
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Heaven forbid some folks actually try to glom together and do good.
Not always [youtube.com]
Anti camera tech (Score:5, Interesting)
Reminds me: Somewhere on the internet is a description of how to build an anti-camera cap. Basically a baseball cap with a battery, and a row of powerful IR emitters along the rim. It utilizes that most security cameras can see into the IR, so the camera will gain down and leave the face in darkness, or at least distort it enough to nullify automated face recognition. Can be used during transport, where wearing a cap is not as suspicious as covering the face. ... Or will it soon be so that anyone not instantly recognized will automatically be a suspect? :-)
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Fortunately, most rioters are morons and will not go through the trouble of building (much less remembering to wear) an anti-camera ball cap.
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I've read they coordinated themselves via smartphones/Twitter and actually blinded the expensive camera systems first, undoubtedly the expensive CCTV system will get targeted unless hidden.
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Roof tops, intelligence teams, air surveillance. The facial math for eye position, nose, lip is not too expensive to compare to every id photo in the UK.
In the near term its gathering all the electronic data in near real time and acting on it with a lot of snatch squads night after night.
Long term elite units fresh from colonial wars will start getting "supplies", images and maps ready.
Re:Anti camera tech (Score:5, Interesting)
No, our police are wayto soft and stupid for that on this occasion.
Don't worry, I'll qualify this, I'm not trolling tonight, I'm deadly serious.
For years I've been filming and photographing peaceful demos here in Manchester (where it kicked off last night). When it was hippies, Green Party Comrades, and slightly biased press (count me in!), they used pyschological tactics like kettling, horse-trampling, and good planning, because we announce where we going and why well in advance (in accordance with our new Anti-Terrorist laws for peaceful protests - yes you read that right)
They had uniform photographers which were highly visible, and others cleverly hidden on roofs and in windows nearby. These guys were shooting top-end Canons with long 500mm lenses, yes I did chat to a few and they were specialists, not bobbies showing off nice SLRs to scare us.
Last night nothing like that was in evidence at all. They were charging anybody and everybody in their way (including me and other indie and staff journos hefting my SLRs), herding crowds of non-violent protesters along with the thugs, whilst completely ignoring looters. The above post just isn't accurate at all, and if anything they fought a losing battle again.
The BBC are totally in their pocket - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14470533 [bbc.co.uk] - it's the only way they can avoid having their cameras nicked. Our (indie) stuff isn't being broadcast anywhere yet, and the youths aren't bothering us, they're giving us a great show! A lot of them WANT to be photographed grinning. And a lot of them can articulate their political views very intelligently. And they're not copypasta ' ing each other either, they each have their own particular reasoning. They're human beings.
And on that note, I must relay a personal experience of mine last night. Staring down the eyepiece of a camera, I made eye contact with a "Robocop" riot officer looking at my camera and then rapidly side to side, and then at the camera again. I nearly cried, and I removed the camera from between with us and just bonded with him for a few seconds.
Nobody should be mixed up in a all this. "Them" or "Us" alike. Those police can end this right now by turning around, and enforcing the people's will on those who have caused these problems, since, well whenever. Those with the boot on the face of humanity.
Re:Anti camera tech (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't explain that beautiful moment properly, I didn't do him justice.
Despite all that armour, the weaponry, and his comrades flanking him, that officer in that moment was scared, scared of me, scared of the camera, scared of the idea (speculation begins) that maybe, just maybe they shouldn't be there and neither should we, and we both knew the reasons underlying it all.
Sharing that moment with him, and him seeing my expression and reaction, and the solid eye contact and mutual tears welling that ensued after I put my camera down from my face, has changed me forever. I can now view "the pigs" in a completely different light to my usual trolling self... I'm usually the first to slag authority and especially enforcement of same.
They bleed the same. I saw it last night. Thanks for listening, I had to get that out. Some of them are "jobsworths", some bullies, but not all. Remember that next time you hurl abuse at a police line. They could be our comrades come the Revolution. I saw that possibility tonight.
I'm going to bed, 24 hours awake now.
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You mean they texted each other as to where to meet up? Diabolical! Criminal genius!
GP is right, most of the rioters were probably "morons", in that they don't think too hard about this stuff.
Re:Anti camera tech - lemon juice :) (Score:2)
Reminds me of McArthur Wheeler: (from http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/component/content/article/62/103182-pittsburgher-stupidity-in-the-news-the-mcarthur-wheeler-effect- [post-gazette.com] )
At 5 feet 6 inches and about 270 pounds, McArthur Wheeler is an easily recognizable man — even when wearing lemon juice on his face.
That certainly came as a surprise to Wheeler, 45, of Versailles Street, McKeesport. He was incredulous in April when Pittsburgh robbery detectives told him that he had been identified in surveillance photographs as one of the two men who robbed two banks in Brighton Heights and Swissvale on Jan. 6.
"But I wore the lemon juice. I wore the lemon juice,'' a puzzled Wheeler told the even more puzzled detectives.
The detectives' confusion turned to incredulity as Wheeler explained about his would-be lemon aid.
"Someone told him that if you put lemon juice on your face it makes you invisible to the surveillance camera,'' recounted a still chuckling Cmdr. Ronald Freeman of the investigations branch.
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How to defeat facial recognition technology (Score:2)
1. ski mask
2. ???
3. profit!!
brought to you by John Dillinger
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1. ski mask
2. ???
3. profit!!
Sound advice. However, I suspect the majority of rioters on the streets at the moment aren't the type of people who read Slashdot nor think about the consequences of showing their face in public to all those people with smartphones.
For example: http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/ [tumblr.com] . No facial recognition technology with this site, just the "many eyeballs" technique.
Talking is not Doing! (Score:2)
All this talk and nobody posted a site up yet with all the perps identified and tagged? Sounds like design by committee, where there's only one real developer who understands and can do the work and a bunch of yakkers just chatting it up because they can't do it but want to be important or included.
C'mon, website up in T-minus how many hours?
PS: On a side note. Hearing the word Riot brings back the memories of the LA Riots and the one story that I remember is the guy with a hunting rifle living across the
Re:Talking is not Doing! (Score:5, Insightful)
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If you can't see the obvious problem in your post, then you're retarded.
America has some of the most lax gun laws in the world.
America still managed to suffer far worse riots than the UK has.
As an aside, how many people did the rioters themselves shoot in those riots with legitimately owned guns? No? don't want to answer that? According to Wikipedia 53 people died. Thus far only one person has died in the UK and he was shot by a rival gang with an illegal firearm.
Oh, but because one guy defended one shop, i
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"America still managed to suffer far worse riots than the UK has."
ONLY in DISARMED areas. There are two Americas, reasonable as the US is vastly larger than the UK. There is a generally peaceful part, and there is the violent part you read about in the news. The culture and demographics of these areas differ. Many of the lowest-crime areas of the US are heavily armed.
The reason the LA riots weren't replicated in the Southern US is we would have cut the rioters to ribbons. The "goblins" (to use a fine Jeff C
Re:Talking is not Doing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Difference is, we don't need guns to defend our homes, because when the sort of criminals who resort to crimes like burglary don't have guns, why would we need them? Or what, do you also believe burglars in the US don't have guns, when they know home owners do?
Guns give an individual of any strength or gender at least an equal chance against criminals, typically stronger, younger, and more numerous males who have spent their whole lives learning to take and administer beatings. Unless you are trained you will lose against a street thug in physical combat--and even if you are you will lose against two of them. On the other hand, burglary is a very unprofitable crime so the average burglar is not armed since guns cost hundreds of dollars. Forfeiting your right to a gun means you are trusting your life to the grace of criminals (who are practical enough to retain all their rights).
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"Guns give an individual of any strength or gender at least an equal chance against criminals"
This fallacy assumes that the criminal doesn't get the jump on you, which, when they're the ones knowing they're going to commit the crime, means they have the initiative.
This is why, despite your theory, it doesn't work out this way in practice. It's also a problem that a criminal will commonly be more willing to shoot a person, than a non-criminal be willing to shoot someone, even if they are a criminal.
"Unless y
Re:Talking is not Doing! (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah because of course our cops do that don't they, they open up on crowds. Oh wait no they don't, in fact they've not to this point even deployed baton rounds, or water cannons.
It's only a matter of time. Wish I were wrong, don't think I am. Time will tell.
I'm fucking glad we don't have your retarded gun nuttery, because for all the benefits you think it gives you, all you've really got to show for it are a whole bunch of pretty fucking embrassing crime statistics.
First of all, our retarded gun nuttery is your retarded gun nuttery, because we inherited it from you. You have simply outlawed it, with the effect that only criminals have guns. Second, gun crime has been waning in the USA in spite of generally permissive firearms laws. The only kind of gun crime which is actually on the rise in the USA is suicide. Suicide is on the rise pretty much everywhere, and we just happen to have guns to do it with. Aside from making things messier, this is really not a problem. So while gun suicide is on the rise, gun deaths are falling overall, suggesting that we have a handle on the problem.
But keep telling yourself your country is perfect, and you're so incredibly free, and that Britain is so much worse.
Nah, the USA and Britain are just two sides on the same die. On the other hand, your culture is provably less free than ours. I mean fuck, the truth is not a defense in a libel case? How are you not seriously more fucked up than the USA?
Anyway, one more thing upon which time will tell; your country is totally played out. You're out of natural resources and useful allies. All there is left is to fight each other for the scraps. Without projecting imperialism as the USA is doing you have no future except as just another soon-to-be-homogenized member of the EU. That's a good thing for the world but not for your quality of life.
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Hearing the word "poor" makes me think "blacks" (mostly 'cause I don't care to get racist when thinking). Astonishingly, I'm more often than not correct.
Correlation is not necessarily causation. They're not rioting 'cause they're black. They're rioting because they're poor and see no chance to improve this situation, ever. Which in turn leads to a lot of frustration and, well, if there's finally a way to vent that anger, I can well understand why they jump on it.
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I wouldn't say it's because of race, but I do think there's more too it than that. We have some equally poor Kosovan communities around here but they would never dream of this and are appalled by it. That's not to say it's racial, but I don't think it's merely because of poverty either.
I think there's a strong cultural element here too. Certainly there has been some evidence for this in the past- Somali populations in Bristol, and Nigerian populations in Birmingham most certainly brought with them some of t
Insufficient evidence (Score:2, Interesting)
After the dust settles I'm sure only the people caught in the process of rioting will be prosecuted. Even if a camera records a man running into the store, grabbing something and running out, and even if that man is uniquely identified, he can always claim that someone forced him to do that, threatening him with a knife. In a quiet situation this lie can be untangled, evidence found, witnesses questioned, etc. etc. However in *this* mess it is impossible to prove or disprove the story, even though it is ob
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A lot of them will be caught in the coming weeks and months. Most don't realise many modern devices like iPhones, XBox's etc. have unique identifiers such that if they ever use them online they'll almost certainly be flagged up and the police will be round to their house in no time where they can do them for stolen goods.
The jail cell shortage is no big deal, a criminal record and community service to clean up the areas they fucked up and then some will be a good enough response to many of the lesser offend
Re:Insufficient evidence (Score:5, Funny)
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If Only... (Score:4, Informative)
If only this technology were JUST going to be used on a bunch of minging neds and chavs, I'd have no problem with it.
But it'll be used for everyone all too soon.
Ah well, in the meantime, I'll be only too happy to watch a bunch of warbling brats get their arses handed to them by the cops.
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Smartwater (Score:2, Interesting)
I was just in the UK and in some of the suburbs in London there were signs up about SmartWater [wikipedia.org] being used in the area. I think it was just being used to tag property but some of the other applications there seem interesting.
In a riot-like situation where there are too many people to feasibly make significant arrests it seems like it would be useful to have a way of "tagging" them and then pull them more of them in in the subsequent days.
A week ago I was also in Nottingham and walked past a p
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They were refusing to disperse after being lawfully ordered to do so by a police officer.
I'm fairly sure that qualifies as an offence.
"V for Vendetta" (Score:2, Funny)
What is going on? (Score:2)
I fear that a purely technical solution will make this situation a lot worse. People filming the riots will be beaten up, or worse.
Watching this amazing video [youtube.com], I can't but wonder: what the hell is going on in the UK? Where did so much hate and anger come from?
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You have a lot of people, young people, who notice that they do not have a job, have no chance to ever have one that's worth having, have no perspective and no outlook in life and essentially have no future. And their present isn't too stunning either.
The combination thereof leads to a lot of frustration, anger and helpless rage. There is a lot of energy, a lot of very negative energy, built up and waiting for an outlet. This outlet has come now.
This is a phenomenon that's not unknown. People are willing to
Re:What is going on? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a justification. It's an explanation. I don't say I think it's the right thing to do, nor do I say that I think they're justified. I explain why it is happening.
Btw, while we're at "seeing always the same", I always get to see the same reasoning why these people are "bad" and how they could better their lives. Short answer: They can't. Long answer... well, let's see. Allow me to hold this conversation that I held many times before. Often enough that I can probably also play your part.
"They needn't riot. They could get a job and work their way up"
No. First of all, would you give them a job? You're looking at someone from a bad neighborhood, loaded with prejudice and a general resentment against it. Immediately he's seen as lazy, not dependable and probably more interested in stealing your goods rather than selling them. In an economy where jobs are rare, these are the ones that can't get one. No matter how minimum the wage.
"Then they should go and learn something to be more qualified"
I don't know about your country, in mine, learning as an adult costs money. And they don't have money to spare.
"Then they should have learned something while they were still in school"
Have you ever been in a school in such a ghetto? Be glad if you speak their language, they won't speak yours. You're looking at classes where the mob rules. Try learning something and you won't really have a life worth living. Not only inside, but also outside your school. If you get out alive and with all your teeth, you really have a career going. As a boxer, not as a scientist, though.
"They already get everything for free, why are they complaining?"
Would that satisfy you? Knowing that you have to live from handouts because you're unable to afford your own life? Personally, it would frustrate me greatly. Also, look at what they get. A flat, usually too small for the amount of people cooped up in it, in a neighborhood where you better don't own anything worth being stolen, an education in schools where... see above and health care where you better don't have a job because you'd miss quite a few days of work for waiting alone. What people miss is that they see "oh, free", and consider the quality level equal to what they are paying for. Hint: It's not. Not by a longshot.
It is actually someone else's fault that they can't get out of this ghetto. It's insanely hard to claw your way out of this hell, and I dare say facing the same level of hardships, most people would do exactly the same.
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Stylish anti facial recognition (Score:4, Informative)
Gun Control and Peaceful Protest (Score:3)
I am never amazed at the sense of helplessness I get from Europeans. They expect the government to do everything for and when it doesn't, for some reason petty theft is "justified". Pathetic.
Gandhi said "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." These current groups of thieves and thugs aren't noble citizens rising up against their oppressors. They are violent, thieving thugs with no concept of passive resistance -- no concept of the better good.
Poor you say? Look at these people
http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/ [tumblr.com]
They are very well dressed. They are very well fed. These are not helpless Somalis trying to get their food aid. These people would be upper middle class in 75% of the countries on Earth but are so consumed by jealousy and helplessness that they have turned to selfish destruction.
Many of you, who are paralyzed by the thought of another citizen owning a gun, try to draw comparisons to the LA riots in 1992. Do you not remember Korea Town? Lack of gun control works. The LA riots were not brought under control by the police. It was private individuals, with their private guns, that laid down the law and stopped the anarchy.
The British people are helpless and dependent. From yesterday's Guardian:
"Scotland Yard’s 6,000 street officers were hopelessly outmanoeuvred" by " boys and girls, most no older than 15, and some apparently as young as eight". One resident: “Where are the police? Why are they not here? People are frightened.”
Americans in the 1992 riots were in no such mood:
"We are glad the National Guard is here. They're good backup."
Many years ago a historian (please enlighten me to the name if you can remember) did a study on the rise and fall of civilizations. He identified a phase immediately before collapse: Dependence
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who are these people? I mean, white? black? muslim?
It's not race, it's social class. They are all the people who are old enough to have been seriously pissed off by the police, the system, and each other, and young enough to not realise that breaking everything within reach doesn't really help.
So mostly 16 to 21 and from the kind of areas where the police victimise innocent people and threaten the victims of crime.
I know, I lived a short walk away from where the police started all this.
Re:would somebody tell me (Score:4, Funny)
multiculturalism and tolerasty at its best.
Hi! :)
You seem to be trying to use a word that you don't really understand [wikipedia.org].
Would you like me to...
1. Find close matches in the dictionary, based on the first few letters...?
2. Find likely synonyms in a thesaurus, based on context...?
3. Fill in some garbage that means nothing but sounds good so people might not quite so easily cop to the fact that you're a functionally illiterate racist moron...?
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them not being able to get what they want for free .
as opposed to the upper class who DO get what they want for free. THAT's the problem : a very WIDE gap between the working poor(look up what that means) and the very rich.
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But there's the catch. These aren't 'working poor', they're feckless poor. There's a difference.
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Indeed, but anyone who can afford to buy £100 trainers and a blackberry isn't actually poor.
That leaves them just feckless.
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Woosh (Score:2)
Ugh. *facepalm*
Sarcasm. Learn it.
Re:would somebody tell me (Score:4, Insightful)
Fuck off you racist piece of shit. There is no such word as "tolerasty" except as invented by European neo-Nazis so that they can pretend to be smart while treating blacks, Jews, gays, Muslims, and virtually everyone else as sub-human vandals in their precious homogenous society. It is a portmanteau of tolerant and pederast, created with the intention of implying that tolerant people condone pedophilia.
What is happening in London has nothing to do with "your colored cousins". I won't even bother arguing why, because frankly, you're a monster of the same sort that murdered all those children in Norway, and as such are impervious to reason. I wish only that you die before you hurt anyone, and that no one follow you down that road of hatred that you're on.
I'm only even responding so that people see you for what you are, and know to distrust your every word.
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"Brought there by our coloured cousins."
Asshole. You had a point right up to that last sentence. Go crawl back under the rock from which you came.
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Better than that, why not actually go there and see for yourself. Oh wait, I did, and there were plenty of black and asian faces in the sea of people helping to clean up the streets after the rioting.
Go crawl back under your rock.
Re:would somebody tell me (Score:5, Insightful)
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maybe not raped. but sweatshops = slavery.
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Just some people who have had their pockets turned out by the police twice a week for as long as they can remember. Just some people who have been threatened with violence from the police whenever they dared answer back. The same people who saw the police kill two innocent people and totally get away with it in recent history.
These people have been trained by the police to hate the police. They saw the latest police shotting as an execution and it made them angry as hell. Once the first two police cars were
Re:would somebody tell me (Score:5, Interesting)
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As a side thought - fighting the government (policy) is becoming increasingly difficult. The masses seems to be immobile and largely ignorant so political actions are close to impossible but at the same time the state is becoming ever
Re:would somebody tell me (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/03/deaths-police-custody-officers-convicted [guardian.co.uk]
http://cryptome.org/info/totten-protest/totten-protest-01.htm [cryptome.org]
The Darcus Howe interview with the BBC is very telling too.
Re:would somebody tell me (Score:4, Informative)
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who are these people? I mean, white? black? muslim?
It's not a race/religion issue.. the rioters are multicultural of every skin color..
What most of them have in common (other than the urge for a good round of fistycuffs) is belonging to a lower social class without much hope for the future. The UK government have been cutting cost lately, with the result that school is now 3 times as expensive as it used to be. Funding to social services has been reduced.. etc.. So these people find themselves at the bottom without any real ladders to get out of there.
But I guess a bunch of them are hooligans that just use it as an excuse to go rampaging too..
Don't make it more political than it is. Yes, they are from the lowest social classes, but mostly, they're just itching for a fight. They want to have some impact, even if the only thing they can accomplish is to burn the place down. As I understand it, they're mostly gang members who set aside their differences to fight a common enemy: the police and society in general. They're definitely not representative for the regular (also poor) people in these neighbourhoods; if anything, those are their victims.
Tho
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There are plenty of ladders, but you still need to make the effort to climb them.
Let's clear up some misconceptions:
"School" hasn't become more expensive. Schools are free.
University is now being funded more via student loans, rather than general taxation - given that the interest rate is extremely low, and you don't have to start paying it off until you earn enough, it's still a good deal, assuming you study something worthwhile, rather than art history or media studies.
And most of the "swingeing cuts" ev
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it's still a good deal, assuming you study something worthwhile, rather than art history or media studies.
It's still a good deal whatever you study, considering that you need a degree to hand out the towels on the reception desk at the gym I used to belong to.
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They are poor. No doubt non-whites are overrepresented, but there's a fair share of whites too. It's not a race thing. From what I understand, it;s mostly a gang thing.
Re:would somebody tell me (Score:4, Interesting)
I just spent an evening embedded with indie journalists in Manchester. It's definitely at least two-thirds white.
And there's more to it than "mindless violence" too. The train station here, just a few hundred metres from one main flashpoint (Piccadilly Gardens), it fucking immaculate. I was in there at 5am this morning insisting that Network Rail put in an official statement to that effect. I hope they do.
They said themselves that last time there was disorder in Manchester (caused by a certain Scottish football team) Piccadilly Train Station was, to put it bluntly, completely ruined.
I saw all kinds of colours and themes of clothing; wierdos with cameras being ignored in favour of fasion shop windows. Most people stood around to bolster numbers, and those smashing windows are NOT those looting. The looters come after, and the are primarily white trash but I saw one Asian guy who was abusive to our photographers taking a whole glass shop counter in a van using a trolley.
"It's mine. You got a problem with that?"
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It's also a boredom thing, especially with the youngest of the rioters. School holidays are three weeks in and the weather has been shite up until now. Being involved is an electric buzz. It's probably the most exciting thing a lot of them have ever taken part in.
People have witnessed police bribery and corruption on a local level for years and recently we've read about it on a nation level in the newspapers. Politicians have been caught with their fingers in the till. Obscene milliona
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Somehow I doubt it's a race issue. It's simply that non-whites are overrepresented in the poor demographics. If it was the other way around, you'd see more white people rioting.
It's a rich vs. poor thing. Not black vs. white. You have angry, disillusioned, poor and hopeless people with a bleak outlook on their future, seeing that they have rather little of one. What do you expect them to do? Grin and bear it? Be honest, would you?
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This is the reason more than all the other stupid shit I've heard bandied about.
The whole think has been in the making for years.
From the BBC
"He said youths aged from nine had been on the rampage through the city centre."
"When the BBC asked two youths why they were rioting, one responded: "Right, why are you going to miss the opportunity to get free stuff that's worth like loads of money?"
"The BBC's Chris Buckler watched police try to manage masked youths in Manchester
But they said it was not just about tha
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He said he might be shouted at or grounded when he returned home but he would "live with that".
If that's the interview I think it is, he actually said that because it would be a first offence he would only get an ASBO [wikipedia.org] but could live with that. He might be in for a surprise, because the magistrates courts that have heard the cases so far have referred many of them up to the crown court, even in the case of guilty pleas, because the crown court can hand out much longer custodial sentences than the magistrates court can.
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Looks like your wish is granted!
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Maybe you need to break into a store near you and get a better TV. The ethnic mix of the rioters is quite visible on most modern screens.
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Most of the rioters are black, and they all look alike.
Maybe you need to break into a store near you and get a better TV. The ethnic mix of the rioters is quite visible on most modern screens.
It depends on what he chooses to see.
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A better TV helps little if the viewer is color blind.
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Why the hell would the Guardian (world-reknowned for voluntarily reporting from a neutral point of view) and the BBC (legally bound to do the same thing) want to skew statistics against the same race that makes up most of their staffers? You are seriously fucking trolling, I'm pretty damned sure the stills of crowds here in Manchester will prove you wrong.
Now why is this upload. taking so long? And before you ask, no I don't upload to that free-for-all Flickr or anything else like that, I upload to big thre
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> the Guardian (world-reknowned for voluntarily reporting from a neutral point of view)
You must read a different Guardian, or live in a different world.
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Yes, except the sorts of scrotes involved in these riots are the sort of chav underclass who until now probably have never stepped outside their own estate.
Thus, the chance of any decent amount of them having a passport- something which is optional in the UK, is pretty much nil.
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On the other hand, chances of them having been arrested before: good.
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I think that's probably true. They've arrested 600+ already. Let's be honest, most of those arrests are probably because the police knew exactly who the people in CCTV images etc. were as soon as they saw them.
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The math of your face would do the rest.
Re:Bias (Score:4, Funny)
Then it's easy, round up all Facebook users and lock them away.
It's so win-win...
Re:The real reason's for the riots (Score:4, Interesting)
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So just to be clear, your logic is that since the system works for some people, the system must be working for everyone? That's a nice piece of reasoning there, for a total idiot.
People steal for one of two major reasons. Either they do it for the feeling of empowerment, or they do it because they want or need something. Society tells these underprivileged that if they don't have a new pair of trainers, they are lower than squashed snake shit. Given the opportunity to make themselves a member of society tha
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Nope. It's that if the system was as broken as you claim, it wouldn't work for anyone.
If I have a USB drive[1] that doesn't work in any computer, what do you conclude? If it works in some computers but not others, what do you conclude then?
[1] like this one [geekalerts.com], if it makes it any easier.