Facebook Helps Israel Blacklist Air Travellers 478
Jeremiah Cornelius writes "According to a report by the Associated Press, protesters have been stopped in their tracks after Facebook aided Israel in cracking down on the group of activists from the UK, France, and Belgium who planned their event using the popular social networking site. Facebook allowed government agents to track the activists activities and then create a black-list of people who participated in the planning of the protests. The black-listed group was then forwarded to airlines with instructions to prevent the activists from boarding air flights to Israel. Over 200 activists were prevented from flying after being added to the airlines terrorism watch list, according the the AP report. Was Julian Assange correct, when he warned that Facebook was a giant, 'appalling spy machine'?"
Its been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
Facebook is in routine use by various "authorities " to profile people. So why not the Israelis?
And in other news. Bears shit in woods.
Re:Its been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
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To be fair, the Taliban are not nice people. Whether this justifies overthrowing them or not is a messy and complex moral problem, but you certainly can't overthrow them and then abandon the country you just stripped of its rulers. Once you're in, you're in, and must see it through until order is restored.
But no, I don't think us Nordic countries should ever have gotten involve
Re:Its been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll admit - I have two standards. I've become more aware of it in recent times. Some rogue nation does "x" against it's citizens, and I judge it as terrible. Then the US does something similar, and I judge it as a PITA.
In this case, I see Israel doing something that I would condemn the US for, but I don't condemn Israel as harshly.
Hmmm. Why is that? I'm not a Zionist. Could be, my military background. If Israel is to survive, then they had better use everything at their disposal, and use it efficiently. On the other hand, the US isn't fighting for it's very survival, so the same actions would be less forgiveable, I guess.
Yeah, I have double standards. Unfortunately, a lot of people deny having their own double standards. And, least of all, can they be expected to understand those double standards.
In reality, we've all admitted that "there's no privacy on the internet". All governments are busy data mining Facebook, and all the rest of the web. This should have been expected. Just like we've discovered that electronically aiding protestors in Arabic countries can, in some instances, expose those protestors to the government. It's to be expected. That doesn't make it right - just expected.
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So, essentially, you're saying that the people fighting the US in Afghanistan with desperate means like suicide bombers are doing what's justified to fight for the survival of their way of life?
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Well, yes, kind of. The Afghans, the Pakis, and the Taliban should be permitted to live in the tenth century, if they so wish. They should be permitted to keep their women barefoot and pregnant, and serving the men. That's all well and good.
The problem in Afghanistan is, those inbred tribals gave refuge to Al Queda after AQ had attacked the United States.
Today, we've killed off much of AQ, we've killed off a lot of the Taliban, it's time to come home. Past time. Let those inbreds live their lives as th
Re:Its been done before (Score:5, Insightful)
No those inbred tribals gave refuge to Al queda after the CIA helped form Al queda to drive out the Soviets, and then left them there. If we spent a little time and money there rebuilding, and teaching them 30 years ago, then Al Queda wouldn't have turned against us(or wouldn't have had as much local support as they did)
If you want to bring peace to someone. You have to be prepared to spend 50 years there. We have to stay in Afgahnistan and iraq for another 40 years. Or they will fall into absolute chaos for 10 years.
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There are those who believe anarchy and chaos are good things. Personally, I don't give a damn. Those people have been at war with all outsiders for a long damned time. "Outsiders" include most of India, and "a long damn time" predates England and France's interest in the area. They were at war when Alexander the Great decided to take a part in events there, and nothing has changed since.
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You could say the same about India, China, Persia. You could not about England of the USA, but only because these are "moden" creation.
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So leave another country with loose ends? After all, the whole shit is home made. Back when the Ruskies invaded Afghanistan, the CIA actually shipped the fanatics over by the boatload. Back then Ozzy was our best buddy in the far east. Technically, it wasn't those inbred tribals who invited Al Quaida over, we shipped them there. Without asking too much whether they're welcome there. But when Russia decided they don't wanna play cowboys and indians anymore, suddenly the US didn't give half a shit anymore abo
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If Israel is to survive, then they had better use everything at their disposal, and use it efficiently.
UMM are we talking about a bunch of terrorists making plans on Facebook to attack Israel or are we talking about people excercising what should be a basic human right to protest against a government they don't like. FTFA
Israel has not publicized its criteria for denying entry, but has said peaceful visitors will not be deported. The large numbers of people who were blocked indicated that Israel was giving few activists the benefit of the doubt.
Governments should be able to set up some rules that define who, where and sometimes when people can protest but it looks like Israel is writing the rules as they go along.
Re:Its been done before (Score:4, Insightful)
I would say that if Israel is going to survive in the long run they need to get their act together and not be a general pain in the butt for all their neighbors. Especially now since the US has an economic situation that's not very promising. What if the economic aid that the US provides Israel disappears?
If Israel wants to survive.... I hope they are going to realize that this is not the way to get there. They have stopped 200 activists this one time. Yay!!! Great for them. Do you think these protesters are going to use Facebook again? Will it stop the next group? And do you want to stop those groups?
Israel has one big problem, and that is not Palestine or Hamas. It is their mindset that they still don't realise that they need to give some space to the Palestinians. And the more they restrict them, the more resistance they will face. Actions like this show that they don't have a real vision where they want to go in the future, if they really want to have a future there.
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I would say that if Israel is going to survive in the long run they need to get their act together and not be a general pain in the butt for all their neighbors. Especially now since the US has an economic situation that's not very promising. What if the economic aid that the US provides Israel disappears?
How are they a pain in the Butt of their neighbors? Oh, that's right they are the only "Liberal Western Type" democracy in the area for a thousand miles each way. They are Jewish in a large pool of Muslim believers, and the only country to believe in Multiculturalism, Human Rights and fairness for all faiths. They are so fair that they even have Christians and Muslims serve in their military. The west has been sold a bill of goods about the plight of the "oppressed" and "occupied" I have a question.....
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The world has changed a lot since the '50 and '60, do you know? With the exception of Siria and several factions of Libano, Israel is doing very well with the government of its neighbours.
What could they do? Avoid expansion beyond their recognized borders, finish the apartheid against palestinians. You know, the things everybody has been asking them to do for years (and which they do occasionally comply when they have to good look for a time, but then dismiss).
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The issue of 'Apartheid' against the palestinians is a very complicated issue. If Israel allows them Israeli citizenship, they won't take it. The average palestinian probably doesn't want to be an israeli citizen because of what it entails. This is what created the situation in the first place. They didn't want to be Israeli, and when the original war in 1948 began they were expelled as they were on the 'other side' of the israeli arab conflict. You can't annex them, and yet they are non citizens living in
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I remember a documentary about civil rights activists in the Israeli Army. One of them was formerly commander of a checkpoint, and one day received the new that a friend of hers had been killed. He stopped all palestinians there and made them stand in the sun for hours, just because she wanted to.
When she finally got to her senses, the most shocking thing to her was that nobody in her platoon did anything to get her back to normal. They all assumed that it was "bussines as usual".
Also, read how palestinians
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Bullshit. The jewish community in Iran goes back to Esther - and have no real restriction to speak of. Many are millionaires, and wouldn't leave Iran - and it's ski slopes or Riviera seaside to go to Israel, where they'd be ghetto-ized by Ashkenazim scum from New Jersey and Gdansk.
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"China, Russia or other non-western countries" are not surrounded by countries that have attacked them five times in the last sixty years. They are not bombarded with rockets from a neighbouring country. No country has stated that their goal is to wipe them from the face of the earth. All of these things are happening to Israel.
Palestinians will get no sympathy from me when with one hand they point at Israel being an oppressive regime and lob rockets with the other. Stop attacking Israel and Israel will st
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Re:Its been done before (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's double-standard really. Not just from Facebook, but every other US company from Microsoft to Google too.. When it's against United States/Israel it's "terrorism", when it's against China, Russia or other non-western countries it's "helping activists to spread their message and bring down oppressive governments". Most Americans seem to think the same way, but for others like me who are european both sides seem like oppressive governments with huge amount of problems and most interest mostly being fighting or having wars with each other (yes, Europe too has its history and we're certainly learned from that.. well, the nordic countries at least. And we were originally vikings)
of course. every guy supports and helps his own country before other countries. how can you be pissed about that?
its the same as me having a double standard favoring members of my family. if two people are about to die and need my help, and i can help only one person and one of the two people is my brother, OF COURSE i'm gonna have double standards. similarly, us companies will, and should, be in agreement with american policies.
Facebook is a public forumn (Score:4, Insightful)
Most groups in Facebook are public by default. They are also public to those who belong to the group. So they didn't have to do any super-spy type thing. It's the users of the group who left themselves out in the open.
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I consider everything I put on facebook "public". Even though I tighten my "privacy" settings, be selective with whom I share stuff with - nevertheless anything posted there I consider "public". That means, only things that I don't really mind anyone knowing I will post there.
And for more personal matters, phone or e-mail. Using FB to exchange e-mail addresses is acceptable. Then use e-mail to exchange phone numbers, not FB, as I care more about my phone number than my e-mail address.
FB doesn't exactly ha
Oh, big wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
At least they didn't just let the protesters get there and gun them down. This is surprisingly restrained behaviour from the Israeli government.
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Seems to me like the Israelis have every right to decide who enters their country.
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Re:Oh, big wow. (Score:4, Insightful)
Then by your logic the Americans should get out of the parts of the country that were won by conquests, which is most of the country including the original 13 colonies.
I'm not even going to start on the European countries, or the precious Arabs.
Get over it. Israel won it's wars fair and square. If the Arabs won a single war do you think for a minute that there wouldn't have been a holocaust that would make the Nazi's look like amateurs?
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It's common knowledge, even in the United States and in history books, that we fucked over the American Indians. That's not why we support Israel.
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Middle ages, Huh? What about the Spanish-American and Indian wars of the late 1800's? The middle ages ended in the 1500's, well before the Europeans stole most of the new world from the original occupants.
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Most countries are made up of parts stolen in wars of conquest. Your point is?
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The country was created and given to them by a UN resolution. Also you neglect to mention that the parts that were "stolen" in wars of conquest, was actually stolen from the "conquestadors"(Jordan, Egypt, Syria). If they hadn't started a war of conquest against Israel, their land would not have been stolen. Unfortunately for them, due to their lame military which could not beat Israel even when they outnumbered, outgunned out surrounded her, they did not gain any territory, but instead lost it. Whining abou
Re:Oh, big wow. (Score:5, Informative)
The country was created and given to them by a UN resolution
This is a common myth, particularly in the US. What actually happened was that contrary to the plans of the UN/UK/US to split Palestine in two, the Jewish Agency (zionists) unilaterally declared indepenence in 1948 and called themselves Israel [wikipedia.org], which in turn triggered the "war of conquest" with the Arabs. The UN did not recognise Isreal as a legitimate state until 1949, there was no other realistic choice since Israel had already established themselves as a state by winning a war against several Arab states.
btw; Before the zionists declared independence the area did not belong to the Arabs, it was technically a part of the British empire who conqured it during WW1..
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Re:Oh, big wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wars of conquest are prosecuted by aggressors. Every war Israel has been involved in has either been started by Arabs (War of Independence, Yom Kippur, War of Attrition), in response to being denied access to the Suez Canal, blockade of the Gulf of Aqaba and attacks from the Gaza Strip(Sinai War, Six day War) . The only reason Israel exists today is due to these defensive wars. The only land they occupy has been used as bases by aggressors.
The Palestinians started the war after Palestine was partitioned by the UN. They lost the war and are still fighting using terrorist techniques. Hamas does not even recognize Israel's right to exist and one of it's founding tenants is to destroy Israel.
Yes there are major issues that Israel needs to address; Jewish settlements in the West Bank, return of refugees, etc. On the other hand, suicide bombers and rocket attacks do not garner my sympathy for the Palestinians. The Palestinians in the Gaza Strip voted for Hamas and are getting what they voted for. Peace will only come when Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist and stops terrorist violence.
Just for your information I am a Gentile from Canada and have no religious reason for supporting Israel. Perhaps you should look at the history of Israel before making baseless assumptions.
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> Who started the 6-day war? Israel.
The granparent addressed this, actually. The war started with the first act of war, which was the attacks on Israeli ships in the Gulf of Aquaba.
Unless you have some really weird definition of "started" here...
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Oh please, enough of this shit. Practically ever square meter of inhabitable land on this planet was once owned by someone else and stolen.
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Don't wars of conquest usually require the 'conquerer' to initiate the invasion? If I remember correctly the US and international community forced Israel to abducate much of their gained territory even though the other arab countries initiated hostilities.
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And gun them down. Although, come to think of it, most *civilized* nations don't exactly do that with random people stepping from the plane. But hey, it's Israel. We can overlook a few corpses here and there, right?
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At least they didn't just let the protesters get there and gun them down. This is surprisingly restrained behaviour from the Israeli government.
You mean like an Arab government?
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You mean like the governments of Arab nations like Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Iran..? Were you even watching the news this year?
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Somehow, I'm glad George Washington and his buddies didn't subscribe to your newsletter.
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Huh? What? You're saying that George and associates had no weapons? Actually, I think George was rather poorly armed, in comparison with the Brits. But, he was indeed armed, and he made pretty good use of those arms. George and company did NOT stage peaceful sit-ins at the British forts after declaring independence.
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Ok, then how about Gandhi?
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http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2312272&cid=36710196 [slashdot.org]
"Facebook aided"? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a difference between facebook actively aiding Israel officials, and those officials viewing the members of a facebook group. Maybe not planning activities in a publicly-viewable setting would have helped these people?
Police, officials, whatever, viewing publicly-accessible information posted on social media sites is a Good Thing, occasionally. If you don't _want_ it viewed, don't post it publicly [and please note, I don't mean, don't post it online. Some medium of privacy should be expected, and the summary and my [brief] skim of TFA didn't say this was privacy violation in any way].
Not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
Anything to do with Facebook, Israel and super hidden government agents is going to be bad. For those who have not watched Pilger's film The War you Don't see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ah20IAyYxg [youtube.com]
I know Julian and he is also quite right about facebook being an appalling spying machine. I loathe facebook with a passion, but there again I am a non-conformist, facebook is the sheep following sheep society and if that is not enough, people get emotionally blackmailed into using it. You do not need facebook, you need a life!
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And if you are publicly showing your intentions there is no need for espionage.
A few years ago it was in the news that a drug dealer was arrested after leaving leaflets explaining what he was, what he was offering or how to get to him. Somehow, I doubt that the lawyer claimed that the police had been using its "spying machine".
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but there again I am a non-conformist, facebook is the sheep following sheep society and if that is not enough,
You're so non-conformist. I also hate all those Sheeple around us [xkcd.com].
Doesn't say that Facebook helped Israel directly. (Score:5, Insightful)
disruptions, and told their friends."
Sounds like they bragged in public, using their own names. And nothing more.
It's shit like this, Slashdot...
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"These people announced on their Internet sites that they planned to come here and cause disruptions, and told their friends."
Sounds like they bragged in public, using their own names. And nothing more.
What's the difference between this and what happened during the 1960's when people wanted to see Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. speak and were turned away?
Re:Doesn't say that Facebook helped Israel directl (Score:5, Insightful)
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And no it wasn't. (Think about why MLK needed to speak there?!)
some clarity... (Score:2)
Facebook help Israel Blacklist Air Travelers
simply means that Facebook, the service helped Israel compile this blacklist, the same way the activists used it to coordinated their efforts. The context of how Facebook is used isn't clear from the headline, which actually makes it a good headline because people will read it. Hopefully they will understand once they do, that they were referring to the service, and not the company when th
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I didn't get the impression that Facebook had done anything proactively, as you appear to have. Granted, not the clearest summary I have ever seen, but by /. standards, this is pretty clear.
Re:Doesn't say that Facebook helped Israel directl (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like they bragged in public, using their own names. And nothing more.
It's shit like this, Slashdot...
o_O ...And this is is the part where I say you're a moron if you believe I don't use YOUR name, Paul, to brag in public about my anti-copyright protests.
Well, perhaps I don't use your name; Maybe someone else does, and I use some other's name... In reality, without Facebook's Help, how would they verify that the IP addresses posting as Susan Someone really belongs to Susan, and not Jane?
Are you suggesting that they just took the names and added them to the no-fly list without identity verification? Is this not even more outrageous?
Go ahead. Continue to ignore the ease of which I can now use your name online to falsely incriminate you... If you are not outraged now, then maybe you will be when you can't fly, ride a train, get a driver's license, or vote because of something I said or did using your name?
Guilty until proven innocent (Score:3)
Turning the tables with lawfare (Score:3, Interesting)
Is a bunch of young Israeli lawyers working round the clock sustained only by Diet Coke, falafel and cigarettes about to pull off the legal equivalent of the Six-Day War? [melaniephillips.com] A really good link which you should read. Here is another. [informatio...nation.net]
The Israelis have learned from the last flotilla, and hacked international law to serve their ends. The law firm Shurat HaDin [israellawcenter.org] (motto: "Bankrupting Terrorism - One Lawsuit at a Time") has done a bang-up job worthy of admiration, even if you're one of those people who thinks (like Hamas, the recipient of the aid flotilla) that Israel has no right to exist. I really recommend reading the link above, it does a great job of laying out what exactly has been done. They wrote letters to the insurers of the boat, warning them that under international law they would be legally liable for the consequences of helping Hamas. They informed INMARSAT that continuing their service exposed the company to liability. And, most hilariously, the legendary Greek bureaucracy has helped tremendously. Once a complaint is filed and an investigation started, the Greeks aren't exactly known for efficiency. American government is a model of speed compared to this.
Some more interesting facts: there is no pressing need for the aid flotilla. The last convoy actually succeeded in making the Israelis open up land borders and things are super in Gaza now. If the goal was to actually deliver aid, then the flotilla could dock in Egypt and have the goods delivered overland [jpost.com], permission has already been granted. Of course, this offer was refused because that's not the goal of the flotilla. It exists only to remove Israel's legitimacy as an entity (in other words, the same goal as Hamas). Yeah, yeah, right, you don't believe me. OK, how about what Adam Shapiro, co-founder of the International Solidarity Movement and a board member of the Free Gaza Movement said at a speech at Rutgers (to enormous applause, by the way)
Nobody in the Free Gaza movement gives a shit about being a delivery boy for rice and cooking oil. Journalists should really listen when organizations state their goals in public, but who gives a shit when the facts don't fit the narrative. [justjournalism.com]
Re:Turning the tables with lawfare (Score:5, Informative)
Flotilla is a statement against the Gaza blockade AKA collective punishment on general civilian population. Hamas only slightly won Fatah in the elections, and Hamas got the votes of about 30% of the population. The gazans are suffering because of small number of islamists and their israeli counterparts, who wish to have the palestinian areas fully included in a Greater Israel.
Polarizing the issue leads the public astray, because the real issue are the palestinians who are exploited by multitude of parties to promote their selfish political agendas. Every single death of any nationality or religion of any of the sides is exhaustively politicized and used as a straw man to polarize the conflict even more.
If the human rights were universally applied Israel and palestinians would live in either two distinct nations or in one nation of Israel, which by definition would not be a Jewish state. Because of the insistence of having a distinct Jewish state which many say should encompass all palestinian areas too the palestinians are bound to suffer, and because the islamists are promoting their narrow minded ideology the palestinians (of which small number are actually Christians and Jewish) are bound to suffer too.
The conflict history is full of provocative acts by any of the sides and the real moral high ground is with jewish conscientous objectors and human rights activists as well as their arab counterparts. Sustaining the black&white distinctions is essential for promoting the violent nationalistic objectives of either side, and much of the global cheer is directed for or against the sides (which they both like) instead of directing the energy to protect the civilian populations against the exploitation.
The conflict is rotten from the core and almost everything in it is totally corrupted including the Flotillas to some extent. Somewhere on the road the civilians continue their suffering and play their part in the charade.
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What goods, exactly, are held back at the Israeli check points? Be specific. Food? No. Medicine? No. Water? No. Luxury goods? Some. Munitions? You bet your ass! Materials from which munitions might be manufactured? A lot.
Maybe - JUST maybe - if the people in Gaza decided that they would start hanging Palestinians who attempted to build rockets, Israel might be forced to come to reasonable terms with the Palestinians.
Hey, I resent the "settlers", for starters. But, as long as Palestinians want
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However - who controls the border to Gaza - even to Egypt?
And I wouldn't be surprised if the Greece actions in the matter was controlled by a decent bribe - the corruption in Greece isn't unheard of.
Seriously? (Score:2)
Not a new problem ... (Score:2)
Of course, governments have been trying to deny people the opportunity to protest for generations. Sometimes their concerns are legitimate (e.g. riots due to the mob mentality), and sometimes they are not (since some protests are genuinely peaceful).
Even with the Facebook angle, I'm fairly certain that the situation is not unique. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister of Canada) was barring activists from the opposition due to statements on Facebook months prior to this Israel thing. And if Harper's Conservativ
Terrorism wha list? (Score:5, Informative)
Where does it say in the article that they were added to the 'terrorism watch list'?
In fact the Israelis told the airlines that the people on the list would not be allowed to enter Israel, so the airlines prevented them from flying.
There's no mention of terrorism: the submitter made that bit up.
Some Clarity... (Score:2, Informative)
Umm, duh? (Score:4, Interesting)
You mean if you plan things in a publically accessable area on the Internet, other people might read it and plan accordingly?
Are these people really stupid enough to think this would somehow work? I guess for their next act they'll discuss plans to eat & dash at a restraurant by yelling the plans to each other right outside the restraurant front door?
Boycot Israel now! (Score:2, Funny)
World and Palestinians have waited far too long. Israel does not want peace, it want's to continue it's ethnic cleansing. It is time for people in free world (not counting USA where this is apparently illegal) to boycott Israel in same way as South Africa was boycotted during Apartheid.
If you see any product where the numbers on barcode start with 729, don't it! It comes from Apartheid country, that does routinely war crimes, tortures and kills people (including children), does slow motion ethnic cleaning e
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Well I wasn't convinced, but that statement made me a believer in your righteousness! Your Nobel Peace Prize is already on its way, good sir!
Facebbook isn't a private forum (Score:2)
Why does everyone behave like the internet is automatically a private forum? At best, it is semi-private, and generally it is a public forum. These people started a public Facebook event. No spying necessary. Don't want everyone, including the authorities and people who may not like what you are doing, to know what you are doing, don't post it in a public forum.
spy machine? (Score:2)
its hard to call it a "spy" machine when its public access and you put your data there willingly for all to see. It is not much different if your group puts their pictures and 'hey lets do this' on the bulletin board in their local library or grocery store.
Its a *voluntary* 'data collection machine'... nothing more, nothing less.
Re:Facebook - Owned By A Jew. (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe you should look into the work of some Jews like Noam Chomsky, in case you think being a Jew inherently makes you a supporter of Israels policies.
Equating being a Jew with being pro Israel comes off as racist.
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Unfortunately the likely to be pro-Israel raises if you are a Jew and decreases if you are a Muslim.
But being a Jew doesn't mean that you necessarily agrees with everything that happens in Israel.
In other words - which other sites can you suffer this on? I suspect that if the FBI comes in they can get a list of whatever they want as soon as they whisper "Terrorism" and "Patriot Act" - even if they are acting outside the US territory because a company owner providing a service in another company certainly do
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By 'working' do you mean the stripping away of people's civil, moral and legal rights?
If so, I concur.
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Except the people being targeted by Israel using Facebook are not terrorists. They are political activists seeking to engage in non-violent protest.
Now if you've really had a jeroboam of the kool-aid you could say that merely by supporting Palestine you become a terrorist, but if so you are beyond the reach of this discu
Re:Facebook - Owned By A Jew. (Score:4, Interesting)
Except the people being targeted by Israel using Facebook are not terrorists. They are political activists seeking to engage in non-violent protest.
A "terrorist" is anyone that any government says is a terrorist. It's arbitrary. There cannot be any objective definition, because such a definition would include groups supported by the same governments (this applies to the US, Israel, France, and probably most other governments). "Terrorist", like "regime", is a word with great emotional content but little objective content. It applies to those a government disapproves of, but not those who it counts as friends or minions.
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I support my favorite football team. I guess that means I'm on the football team.
I support women's rights. I guess that makes me a woman.
I support Canada's independence. I guess that makes me Canadian.
I support the troops. I guess that makes me a soldier.
Do I need to go on?
Re:Facebook - Owned By A Jew. (Score:4)
"paintball guns"? Are you shitting me?
That "analysis" is just ridiculous. We've got Israeli commandos descending from ropes with automatic rifles onto the deck of a civilian ship in international water and then complaining because the unarmed occupants of the ship defended themselves.
The effort made by the western media to make Israel appear to be the "victim" in this is unbelievable. They kill 9 civilians and then complain that they're the victim. Claiming that "shaking the rope" that they're using to board a civilian ship is an excuse for slaughter.
It's getting harder and harder to support Israel without asking some serious questions about how their own behavior has contributed to the problem. This conflict has been going on for more than a half-century. They are not winning any new friends and are losing some of the current ones. When your existence depends upon powerful benefactors, petulance does not help.
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According to the customary law of the sea as it stands, it is legal to attack and/or board ships in neutral waters that "are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and if after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture" (per San Remo Manual summary of the law). The ships in question had a publicly declared goal of breaching the blockade, so it would seem to apply. To the best of my know
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I remember when words like 'racist', and others such as 'discrimination' were only used against people who were prejudiced, who were acting according to ideas which only existed within their own heads. I'm pretty sure the idea that Jews are more likely to support Israel than non-Jews is actually factual. It's not anything special about Jews; almost all groups of people have a tendency to support the organisations of those similar to them, but it's true nevertheless. And the existence of counterexamples does
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JEWS ARE NOT A RACE.
Judaism is a superstition like all other religions, which one may adopt or reject at will.
Your first sentence was fine, but there is ZERO excuse for confusing RACE with RELIGION with ETHNICITY.
Re:Facebook - Owned By A Jew. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Tried to invade who, if all the land was theirs in the first place? Palestine was there way before Israel was more than a dream.
Re:Facebook - Owned By A Jew. (Score:5, Interesting)
Because assholes come in many colors and shapes, tying greed and general antisocial behaviour to a group of people (where its members didn't choose to be part of it) is kinda nonsensical.
If I'm an asshole to people, I chose to be that way. I didn't choose the color of my skin or the origin, religion or culture of my parents.
Re:Facebook - Owned By A Jew. (Score:4, Informative)
I can't but the Pacific side of WW2 could have shown you a few.
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Oh c'mon, don't you learn anything in history these days? How about that one? [wikipedia.org]
Desperate people will take desperate means to achieve their goals. Regardless of religion.
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I don't disagree, but I'm curious: how were the Japanese "desperate"?
I'm pretty sure that the connection between Islamist suicide bombers and kamikazes has to do with extremist ideology/religion and not being "desperate".
Despair is a universal human condition. There are desperate people everywhere. By itself it does not inspire one to mass murder. I have seen the triumphant video suicide notes of terrorist bombers a
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When they started the suicide attacks the war was pretty much a lost case for the Japanese. IIRC the first attack happened in the second half of 44 when they already lost most of the areas that provide any meaningful resources. The US had a decisive superiority of ships and planes by that time and shortages were common in Japan. The idea to trade a plane for a ship seemed logical, considering that this had a few advantages over the more conventional bombing/torpedo attacks. First, you conserved fuel (which
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Friendly fire. Then the cover-up.
Re:Facebook - Owned By A Jew. (Score:4, Insightful)
You are a victim of the Terry Gilliamesque, "Brazil"-style coverage of world events.
Suicide bombing in, the modern era, was introduced and maintained for a couple decades by Hindu Tamil separatists, in Sri Lanka.
The "suicide belt" and "suicide vest" - as well as the use of young women as bombers and blast decoys originate here, and are far more institutionalised and part of ongoing strategy by the Tamil Tigers.
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They SHOT and KILLED 8 protestors on a boat in international waters,
Who were trying to break a legal blockade and attacked, using axe handles and steel pipes, a boarding party sent to inspect the ship
they even shot protestors across the border in Syria recently
who forced their way across in international border, ignored tear gas, verbal warnings and warning shots.
, so I think these protestors stopped at the airport got off lightly.
Really, it's just a murderous state,
Re:Rogue state (Score:4, Insightful)
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You mix up the official standpoint of the US and the standpoint by action.
Look at all the action the US takes these days (actually since the beginning of the Reagan administration) and you see that the gun is what the US lives by in foreign politics, and "freedom" is a freedom from everyone not thinking "The American Way".
Being an European citizen I remember thinking when Reagan entered office "Oh Shit - WW III is coming.". If the USSR hadn't bent over we may well have had that...
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No, that sounds exactly like what the US stands for.
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A legal state of war... is the the political correct way of saying murder today? Just asking.
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Placing people on a no-fly list for associating with groups/causes that the state deems "terror-y"?
I think the proper term is terrorish. At least that's what my grandpa says, and he's over 90.
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A sovereign nation has the right to decide who can enter it. You may or may not agree with it (and for the record, in this case it seems a ludicrous overreaction) but nonetheless it's their border, their decision.
Restricting movement without a bloody good reason inside someone's own country is a form of repression that, before September 11, was the k
Assange was correct. (Score:2)
Was Julian Assange correct, when he warned that Facebook was a giant, 'appalling spy machine' [cnet.com]?"
Yes.
Facebook has the potential for such uses, and we've learned that any such potential will be exploited.