How the Web's Relationship With Anonymity Has Changed 172
A story at the NY Times explores how the internet's involvement with anonymity has evolved over the past two decades. Quoting:
"Not too long ago, theorists fretted that the Internet was a place where anonymity thrived. Now, it seems, it is the place where anonymity dies. ... The collective intelligence of the Internet’s two billion users, and the digital fingerprints that so many users leave on Web sites, combine to make it more and more likely that every embarrassing video, every intimate photo, and every indelicate e-mail is attributed to its source, whether that source wants it to be or not. This intelligence makes the public sphere more public than ever before and sometimes forces personal lives into public view. ... This erosion of anonymity is a product of pervasive social media services, cheap cellphone cameras, free photo and video Web hosts, and perhaps most important of all, a change in people’s views about what ought to be public and what ought to be private."
A challenge (Score:5, Interesting)
I would challenge people to find out where I live or work. I think anonymity is still alive for those who care.
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Australia ;)
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That narrows it down to about 20 million, minus one because I know he is not me.
Re:A challenge (Score:4)
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FULLNAME: MichaelRohanSmith
MARITALSTATUS: Married
DATEOFBIRTH: 8thofOctober,1965
PLACEOFBIRTH: Kew,Victoria,Australia
ADDRESS: 19ClarenceSt,EastBrunswick,Victoria3057
TELEPHONE: 0393834540(home)
MOBILE: 0416062898
EMAIL: resume@netapps.com.au
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Now, do the same for me! =)
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Me first and I'll give you my wallet.
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It's a trap! It's probably full of Bitcoins ...
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I would challenge people to find out where I live or work. I think anonymity is still alive for those who care.
I doubt I could identify you, but I am sure that many Governments have the capability to get the IP address you posted from and map that to a name.
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You don't really know what you're talking about, do you?
aussie_a's IP address is easy to get if a government has the ability to spy on internet infrastructure in the country where slashdot is hosted. The IP address gives you his ISP. The IP and the time of the post give you his account details.
Seems simple to me.
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Let's be clear: my wifi router is open, and has one of the strongest signals in the neighborhood, which includes an apartment complex. So perhaps 20 households, not just people, have access to my internet, and I don't really care much whether that might piss off my ISP.
ANYBODY in the neighborhood can get on their computer, set their browser to "anonymous" mode (so that no records are kept), and access whatever. The IP address and ISP account
Depends on what you're doing (Score:2)
ANYBODY in the neighborhood can get on their computer, set their browser to "anonymous" mode (so that no records are kept), and access whatever. The IP address and ISP account don't mean squat.
Until the people with guns show up, lock you up and start scanning MAC addresses, traffic and signal strength. Then they find the computer, lock the other person up and retrieve the data from "anonymous mode" in about 20 minutes.
This of course depends on what they're doing. Transferring music and movies, not going to happen. Trying to do something more serious, is going to happen.
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(B) Browsers in anonymous mode, with a spoofed User Agent and JavaScript turned off, are not currently trackable.
Why do people keep bringing up this "men with guns" thing? The whole point is: the IP address doesn't even point to my house (because of the router), only to a neighborhood. It is not probable cause to raid my home. (As a court r
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Why do people keep bringing up this "men with guns" thing? The whole point is: the IP address doesn't even point to my house (because of the router), only to a neighborhood. It is not probable cause to raid my home. (As a court recently ruled.)
The IP address of the router points to your account name at the ISP. All the traffic that goes through that router to/from the ISP looks like "your" traffic to anyone doing a casual (pre-warrant/raid) investigation. The "men with guns" is a reference to the exact scenario where a guy with open wifi got a swat team in his house with a literal boot to the face because his neighbor did something naughty. The police later said "let this be a lesson to others who leave their wifi open".
Sure, you'll probably
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"The IP address of the router points to your account name at the ISP. All the traffic that goes through that router to/from the ISP looks like "your" traffic to anyone doing a casual (pre-warrant/raid) investigation. "
I'm not an idiot. I am aware of all this. Nevertheless, as courts have increasingly been ruling, the IP address is still not probable cause. Police departments are getting chastised and court cases thrown out.
Bad police work is bad police work, and probably cause is probable cause. I have seen all the excuses, and they won't wash.
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No, it means you'll be responsible for everything your neighbors do. It's not right, it's not fair, but when shit goes down, it'll be your name on the IP address, and that'll be all the cops care about.
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"Your honor, we intercepted child porn traffic from this IP address, and chatted with a user from the same address. The defendant was the registered user of that address, and we have 9,372 separate images that were sent through his IP address."
"Your honor, it wasn't me! I share that with my entire neighborhood, so it was one of those other people, but I don't know which one."
"There were no logs indicating that others were using Mr. Smith's wireless network, and we argue that his wireless network was intended for use by his Wii and his iPad."
I'm pretty sure that the police will look for enough evidence to make their case against YOU. It's up to YOU to be able to have counterevidence. So, if you're running an open wireless connection, I hope you're keeping logs of who connected at what times, and perhaps even info on the volume of traffic. When the SWAT or FBI (or your local variation if you're not in the US) bust in your door and confiscate all of your hardware (and take you to a small room for questioning, most likely), it's in your best inte
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Actually, if they find no child porn images on his computer, they will almost certainly not be able to convict (unless the police fake evidence).
I'd worry a little more about the stuff that happens before - the police kicking in the door(s), making everybody lie on the floor at gunpoint, searching the home thoroughly without bothering to clean up after themselves, and walking out with every findable piece of computer or computer-related equipment and it not coming back. That's stuff they can do on proba
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These days, IP address are virtually worthless as evidence.
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I pay for a static IP address on my ADSL service. Its the address in my /. profile web page as well as my MX targets and DNS services. Thats the same IP address I browse from when at home, or when using a VPN from elsewhere. That IP address most definitely does identify my home.
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I know it's tacky, but is there a source on that?
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Enjoy your new easy-open (kicked in) door and your oh so comfortable (face smashed into it) flooring in your cozy apartment! It sounds nice! http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/25/1415259/Bizarre-Porn-Raid-Underscores-Wi-Fi-Privacy-Risks [slashdot.org]
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Raids on homes over things like that are NOT increasing... on the contrary, the police are getting chastised, and cases thrown
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You're assuming (s)he posts from his/her own connection. My town's wifi lets anyone login with the same name/password combination. Lots of people around here have unencrypted or WEP networks. And then there's Tor, I2P and VPNs - including some hosted on countries not US friendly.
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Its pretty normal in Australia to pay for ADSL at home. Wifi is scarce, particularly if you want to sit down for any length of time. An organisation with the backing of a Government could retrieve the DHCP logs from a wifi AP any way. I am just saying that you aren't really anonymous if you pick a random handle for online forums. If you post something suggesting you are a member of LULZSec then the cops will more than likely be knocking at your door.
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What's the point of the DHCP logs? Getting the MAC address chosen at random for that connection? "ifconfig wlan0 hw ether [new mac]" fixes it.
I get what you're saying, but I think true anonymity online is still possible.
On the other hand, that wasn't really parent's point, imo. He's still anonymous to advertisers, bosses and such. That's way more important for 99.9% of people.
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You better, because I don't think Australian Web Developers are a small enough subset of people to scare him yet.
(Unlike gp I know I'm easy to trace, so getting my info wouldn't impress me much)
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Michael Smith | 61 386 304 560
Team Leader, Case and Tools | 61 416 062 898
Thales Australia TCC | S 37.82329
Melbourne, Victoria | E 144.95426
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Very good except I forgot to update my resume.
I know you! (Score:1)
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Is David Davidson some celebrity or a completely random guess?
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Not me. Although to be truly anonymous I should refuse to answer so you give up looking once you think you've found me.
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Re:A challenge (Score:5, Insightful)
I would challenge people to find out where I live or work. I think anonymity is still alive for those who care.
This. Anonymity is dying because corporations want it to die, and slowly but surely they are getting their way. Anonymity isn't good for the bottom line, and we are being teased and enticed and in some cases (facebook) dragged kicking and screaming out of anonymity. For those that still want to use the Internet anonymously, there aren't too many hurdles to doing so. *IF* you care. Anonymity just isn't the default any more (so few people choose it), but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
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Is it only because corps want it to die and not because we're hitting the tipping point where enough people are behaving irresponsibly and causing enough trouble for everyone else that they're willing to forgo some anonymity to get things back to a workable state? (in before Ben Franklin quote).
Resource abused, community responds, film at 11.
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Is it only because corps want it to die and not because we're hitting the tipping point where enough people are behaving irresponsibly and causing enough trouble for everyone else that they're willing to forgo some anonymity to get things back to a workable state? (in before Ben Franklin quote).
Resource abused, community responds, film at 11.
I'd chalk it up to a few things:
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Any suggestions?
Do the nym [iusmentis.com] accounts still work out there....tools like mixmaster....bouncing things about remailers encrypted on each step....having final post as encrypted on a USENET group...etc?
Been over a decade since I last played with stuff...but when I tried awhile back..most of it seemed dying or dead as far as nodes go...or dependability of uptime on the ones that did still seem to work.
I always thought that was pretty darned anonymous
Re:A challenge (Score:4, Insightful)
Anonymity is alive in certain scenarios. I hope you realize the internet is not designed for anonymity and basically not part of that, right?
It's designed for public sharing. You can secure things, but to think anything is anonymous online is just sheer idiocy. Whether someone cares to look at your stuff, depends on a: if you want them to and b: if it's interesting.
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It used to be effectively anonymous for most dealings (aside from subpoenas), but now that you (or your friends) post images and videos on facebook or youtube, there's a large number of people who can say, "hey wait do I know that guy?". The "many eyes" principle applies to exposing identities as well as software errors, I guess.
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Well yes, too many eyes is accurate.
However, the underlying shit behind the internet really has never been designed for anonymity, period. IPv6 isn't about anonymity, and IPv4 simply never really made it easy to identify stuff. Not to say that you're identifying a person - at best, you're identifying a router or a computer.
Google said it best themselves: if you want something private, keep it off the internet. Just like anything else public: if you want it to be private, don't do it in public.
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I would challenge people to figure out who I am, but seeing as I have the URL of my name and have my screen name that I use everywhere on the internet plastered all over it and I'm more than half the top page of Google results for the name I use, my real name, and my screen name, I'm really kinda thinking it wouldn't be too hard... I guess my view has always been that if I'm willing to say it on the internet, then I'm willing to say it in public and I could really care less if people know who I am. If I r
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sometimes we need to examine ourselves from an external vantage point
but this is coming from "Anonymous Coward" you say some terrible and contradictory stuff...
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RL anonymity is dead. But it never existed in the first place.
Online anonymity is still alive and kicking, thank you very much. That Anonymous even exists is testament to the ubiquity and the power of internet anonymity.
Most people don't differenciate their internet presence from their real life. They bring it online via social networking, e-commerce, e-banking, and other services that replace what would otherwise be done in RL. This is why anonymity appears to be dying--because it never really existed for
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Not I I'm afraid.
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I will. I'm impressed with how much genuine info people have found. But so far it's only from slashdot posts.
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Well done. You've narrowed it down to one of two locations and gotten my name. But my name still doesn't tell you who I am. I've worked in the same building as a John Lynch. The name is that common.
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Getting closer, but still not quite there.
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Oh anyone that knew me could definitely identify me if they saw your post. But random people on the internet can't even with all that.
I do find it odd (Score:1)
It's not the internet (Score:5, Insightful)
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Used computers for cash probably will not be a problem, internet connection has always been and always will be traceable.
Internet connection seems less traceable recently, with Starbucks, McDonalds, and Panera Bread being pretty large ISPs these days.
OTOH, soon their video systems will be linked to internet use. Already linking video to cash-register-transactions to catch people doing check fraud. The technology can probably already link it to internet use too.
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We keep seeing these articles that say "all privacy is gone" but the truth is the privacy was never there.
More properly, all the pieces were always there, but it was too expensive and time-consuming to connect them all. (Heck, what do you think police and private investigators do?). Computers have made it cost-effective to track everything about everyone (even if you don't really care about it), because some day you might need to know how many people with 5s in their telephone number also eat sushi take-out on Wednesdays.
That's not anonymous, this is (Score:5, Interesting)
Except (for now) with open wifi.
Unless you bought your laptop from a major vendor and the WiFi operator gets your MAC address.
You want to be completely anonymous? Get an old laptop, a live DVD and an old WiFi card, pay cash. Remove the HDD, throw it out. Use the live DVD for your OS. Never connect to the Internet anywhere unless you are on a random open WiFi connection that isn't near a camera, a hiking trail might be a good place. Use anonymous proxies through that connection for all your Internet access.
Then do whatever it is you really need to be anonymous for, throw the WiFi card into a river and shred the DVD.
If you need to repeat, burn a new DVD and buy another WiFi card.
That's as close as you can get to being completely anonymous on the Internet.
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Also, you might want to contact your NSA handler and properly adjust your tin foil hat before doing this.
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That also means rivers polluted with cheap plastic and metal trash. Please don't do this.
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It's a perfect time to launch my new line of biodegradable network cards.
You do realize that I was offering up a hypothetical scenario. I don't see any valid reason why someone would go through those lengths to remain anonymous.
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Unless their life or liberty was endangered by a government.
Honestly, how many people fall into this category? Then out of them, how many of them are in this category doing something for the greater good and not for self enrichment?
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Good point, I guess I was being US-centric. In that case, follow my guide, including the river part. (Sorry, environmentalists)
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Um, you *do* know that you can reprogram the MAC address of a network interface (including a WiFi card) to be anything you want at will, right? You might not be able to do it with the software that came out of the box with it, but it *is* doable.
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MAC addresses can be spoofed you know. Usually not the vendor part on most, but at least the individually identifying part can be spoofed.
MAC address spoofing is easy (Score:2)
Not just online. (Score:3)
Wonder what would happen if one published an anonymous pamphlet like they used to do in the past ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_(pamphlet) [wikipedia.org] ).
Nobody cared about hiding before now (Score:3)
Times change (Score:3)
20 years ago, people who abused the information in those directories (telemarketers, stalkers, T-100s) where relatively rare. As the abuse increased, so did the desire for anonymity. And even back then, there were some who were willing to pay extra to be "unlisted".
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Yep. Once the directories were put online, and other data aggregated in a manner that was easily searchable, the degree of privacy was less. I couldn't easily search for Bob Schmidt in Some Town, Iowa, unless I lived close enough to leaf through a phone book. A determined attacker (stalker?) could still find someone by hiring a private investigator, or looking at publically available information, but that was a lot harder than firing up Google (or LinkedIn) and looking for their resume, or looking at metad
Internet was never anonymous. (Score:2)
Whoever believed otherwise was an ignorant fool.
Internet was always anonymous. (Score:2)
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"...nothing on the internet ever really proves who was using the computer or internet connection..." - tell it to the squad busting your door. Or lawyers. Or thugs.
anonymity only dies if you're careless (Score:3)
Whatever you post online has to be assumed to be there forever. If you at some point posts embarrassing photos with one account, at another time posts something linking that account to another account, then somewhere online posts something linking the second account to your real identity... guess what? Your real identity is now easily linked to those pictures you posted while drunk all those years ago. It's not going to look good on your resume, is it?
It don't even have to be yourself posting something you want to keep hidden... most of us have thoughtless "friends" who uploads stuff that can be linked to you. A former coworker got into lots of trouble because another coworker brought a camera to an office party - stuff that you find funny after ten beers is a lot less funny when you sober up and realize that your boss have found the pictures while browsing Facebook.
The only way to keep your anonymity is to be careful and aware of what you do online at all time, and be paranoid to boot. Or possible be so uninteresting that no one will bother to dig too much to get your information.
There's no right to be anonymous. (Score:2, Insightful)
However, so long as people didn't abuse it, we were willing to accommodate it. People with unpopular political views, whistleblowers, people hiding from an abusive ex-significant other, etc. Perfectly good reasons to hide your identity, and we were happy to let you partake in civil participation with the internet community, even though we have no idea who you actually are. We're still willing.
However, those people don't comprise Anonymous as we currently know it. A small, but loud segment of the interne
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Anonymity: an old solution to a new problem (Score:1)
Anonymity is in the long run an illusion (Score:1)
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You do mean 'tor' and are not referring to _the_ god-access heavenly network right :-)
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But in the long run, if they want to track you nomatter what, they can, and they will find you.
Apocryphal story, supposed to be true but I have no confirmation. A LOOONG time ago (before ARPANET became Internet), a friend of a friend was recruited out of college by NSA (whose existence at that time was either still classified or had only recently been declassified IIRC - I don't recall, but it was about that time). So he went to this interview in a building with no name on it. His escort came to get him from reception, and clamped a handcuff on his wrist - the other was on the escort. He was told that if he got more than a few feet from the escort, he might be shot. To exemplify that fact, there were armed guards in front of many doors.
My friend-of-friend was totally spooked, and the interview did not go well from his POV. So when he left, instead of flying back to New York, on the spur of the moment, he hopped a different flight to visit his girlfriend in Chicago. The next morning, there was a knock on his girlfriend's door. At the door was an NSA rep, saying "We would like to offer you a position." Astonished, my friend-of-friend asked him how he found him. The rep replied, "Don't be silly, this is the NSA!"
And that was back when finding you was relatively hard, compared to now.
There's a conflict between anonymity and (Score:2)
transparency.
Starting off on the wrong foot (Score:2)
theorists fretted that the Internet was a place where anonymity thrived
Wait, why would they fret over that? Why is it presumed to be a bad thing?
Me thinks the whole article starts off from a really biased angle full of misconceptions.
I assume superficial anonymity with my alias (Score:2)
Still never post anything you dont your mother to see -Tony Weiner.
is "personalization" loss of anonymity? (Score:2)
Anonymity is a direct threat (Score:2)
Louis Brandeis and Human Nature (Score:2)
Funny, but I saw where my local PBS station is broadcasting even now a documentary about Louis Brandeis. I set up to record it after reading about him in the wikipedia. It seems he was instrumental in creating the notion of a right to privacy. I haven't seen the documentary yet, but it might be interesting to learn about his take on the subject. He was a brilliant man it seems, with the highest grades of anybody to graduate from Harvard, and he graduated at age 20 according to the wikipedia, so some of
Hate where the internet is going (Score:2)
I love anonymity. I've seen two infuriating breaches. First, I just set up a Facebook account and never realized that sites with Facebook login support automagically log you in for comments. So, now an account I finally broke down and set up to allow old friends to find me is another anti-anonymity agent.
Second, Google "duped" me into associating my gmail address with my YouTube account. They then started scraping my email account for addresses and actually dumping videos from these people into my YouTu
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http://mailinator.com/ [mailinator.com]
You're welcome.
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lulzsec? Pretty sure there are already companies with very public faces who have been happily doing this for years now. What worries me is that there is so much information that has nothing to do with my online activities floating around, well, online.
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Or better yet, train their employees to realize that just because someone knows where you work, doesn't mean they're who they claim to be.
Hell, what happened to the rule of thumb that you never give this sort of detail to people who call you, only to people you call?
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Oh, boy, you're so wrong.