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Censorship Your Rights Online

Thousands Marched Against Censorship 131

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the my-dogs-are-barking dept.
funfail writes "Thousands of Turkish demonstrators poured into central Istanbul yesterday to protest against the government's Internet censorship. New regulations from Turkey's Internet Technologies and Communications Authority set to come into effect on Aug. 22 will require Internet service providers to offer a choice of four filtering options: family, child, domestic or standard. Many websites are expected to be blocked as a result of the filtering measures."
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Thousands Marched Against Censorship

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16, 2011 @07:56AM (#36139208)

    I love how slashdot runs these "oh no! evil censorship" stories as if people around the world have the same values or customs as it relates to free speech or censorship.

    The fact is that our Western norms doesn't make it the right one and people in more conservative or traditional countries in the world have a right to decide for themselves what is appropriate or not. Who knows if the Turkish demonstrators represent the majority or whether its just a small section of the population?

    The fact is this should be none of the readers concern here. Leave these internal domestic matters to the Turks or whoever else.

    • by paiute (550198) on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:12AM (#36139300)

      I love how slashdot runs these "oh no! evil censorship" stories as if people around the world have the same values or customs as it relates to free speech or censorship.

      The fact is that our Western norms doesn't make it the right one and people in more conservative or traditional countries in the world have a right to decide for themselves what is appropriate or not. Who knows if the Turkish demonstrators represent the majority or whether its just a small section of the population?

      The fact is this should be none of the readers concern here. Leave these internal domestic matters to the Turks or whoever else.

      Bull crap.

      The freedom we enjoy in the US means nothing in the end if we ignore oppression elsewhere.

      I'm tired of religious despots. I'm fed up with tribes who circumcise infant girls. I'm real fucking annoyed with honor killings. I have come to the conclusion that there are some traditions and cultures that need to die out sooner rather than later, and I'm willing to apply the necessary explosives to make it happen.

      • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

        What branch of the US armed forces are you in?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        And I'm fucking tired with the death penalty in your country, you're DMCA notices to the whole world, your human-violation rights in your outside US prisons, your pseudo-freedom-of-speech, and a lot of other bulshit.
        So fucking what?!!!

        • by 1s44c (552956) on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:39AM (#36139504)

          And I'm fucking tired with the death penalty in your country, you're DMCA notices to the whole world, your human-violation rights in your outside US prisons, your pseudo-freedom-of-speech, and a lot of other bulshit.

          And the way they double tax their own citizens when they try to better themselves by working outside their borders. And the way they get involved and mess around in every international and many national disputes everywhere. And the crazy way they try to force their export regulations on companies all over the world. And don't even get me started on their excessive eating whilst large amounts of the world are starving.

          The US is about as messed up as the rest of the world. Paiute is an ignorant xenophobe.

          • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

            by jhoegl (638955)
            I agree name calling without countering the argument is the best way to scare people off.
            Especially when they hate such things as what Paiute was describing.... wait, what?

            Id rather be an xenophobe than someone that condones bullying, mutilation, and sanctioned slaughter.
            Do the world a favor, act like a jackass and throw yourself off a bridge.
            • by h4rr4r (612664)

              If you mean male genital mutilation, that is still quite common in the USA.

            • by 1s44c (552956)

              Id rather be an xenophobe than someone that condones bullying, mutilation, and sanctioned slaughter.

              You don't see the point i'm trying to make. I'm not saying the rest of the world isn't messed up, just that the US is messed up as well. You have got so used to your type of messed up that you don't even see it anymore.

              Bullying - Ever tried talking to a US border official? Or a US policeman? Regardless of the situation it comes down to threats pretty quickly.
              Sanctioned slaughter - What's the death penalty? What about all the people the police have shot in slightly dodgy circumstances?

          • by c6gunner (950153)

            It's funny ... he's talking about systemic oppression and discrimination of the kind that the 1st world nations haven't seen in a hundred years ... and idiots like you are comparing it to the icky habits of those uncouth NASCAR-loving Americans. I know that your large intestine is stopping you from seeing things in perspective, but c'mon, really ...

      • I have come to the conclusion that there are some traditions and cultures that need to die out sooner rather than later

        So you want Superman to swoop down and impose 'Truth, justice, and the American Way' it seems.

        How isn't that you just manifesting a variant of American Exceptional-ism. [realclearpolitics.com]

        • by Golddess (1361003)
          I'm sorry, but could you please explain how you get "Superman should come down and impose every single one of my beliefs on everyone" out of "these few traditions are so barbaric that they deserve to be eliminated"?

          Personally, I'm with GP. I don't care who you are or what your reasons are, but something like amputating a child's clitoris* against their will is never cool. We may disagree on what is in the set of Never Allowed actions, and I certainly don't pretend to know everything that should or shoul
      • by PmanAce (1679902)

        I have come to the conclusion that there are some traditions and cultures that need to die out sooner rather than later, and I'm willing to apply the necessary explosives to make it happen.

        Some fundies from other cultures/religions have the same thinking like you...and some even put those words into action...something we can all agree that results in despicable actions.

      • Tell me, what proportion of infant boys have their genitals mutilated in the US?

        Thread starter = fine troll, btw.

        • You mean "how many infant boys have their genitals mutilated to prevent them from ever having pleasurable sex?"

          None.

          • So nonconsenting nonmedical mutilation is acceptable providing you think it doesn't interfere with someone else's enjoyment of their own body?

            Weird.

            Also, I think you can function well enough without your tongue.

            • by Golddess (1361003)
              I believe Posting=!Working was simply trying to point out that male circumcision is a completely different thing from the amputation of the clitoris and other female erogenous zones that occurs in female "circumcision". I do not believe they support either.
          • by pokerdad (1124121)

            You mean "how many infant boys have their genitals mutilated to prevent them from ever having pleasurable sex?"

            No, American boys have their genitals mutilated because of a myth that cutting off the foreskin somehow prevents infections, when the purpose of the foreskin is to prevent infections. That cutting off the foreskin reduces the pleasure gained from sex is just a side effect. http://www.homiegfunk.com/RIC2.htm [homiegfunk.com]

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        and I'm willing to apply the necessary explosives to make it happen.

        So then go do it instead of threatening to do so. Oh right, you're another armchair soldier who in the end is nothing but a basement-dwelling pussy.

      • by camperdave (969942) on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:32AM (#36139450) Journal

        . I have come to the conclusion that there are some traditions and cultures that need to die out sooner rather than later, and I'm willing to apply the necessary explosives to make it happen.

        Ah! So it's okay for Americans to force their beliefs on people, but not for others. What god gave you that divine right?

        • Ah! So it's okay for Americans to force their beliefs on people, but not for others.

          I should think that there is a clear difference between forcing our belief on others that people should not be oppressed, injured, or even killed, versus forcing the spread of beliefs that support such ugliness.

          • by muntis (1503471)

            not be oppressed, injured, or even killed

            Capital punishment looks like killing people to me. Should I as citizen of EU enforce it to you?

            • by Daihoc (1697892)
              In Western culture, capital punishment is the answer to the actions performed by the individual which are equally if not more distasteful. Save the prison space for those who can be redeemed for their misdeeds.
              • by muntis (1503471)

                In Western culture, capital punishment is the answer to the actions performed by the individual which are equally if not more distasteful. Save the prison space for those who can be redeemed for their misdeeds.

                Yes and wikipedia lists those "Western culture countries" for you (Capital punishment [wikipedia.org])

                China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, United States, Yemen, Sudan, Vietnam, Syria, Japan, Egypt, Libya, Bangladesh, Thailand, Singapore, Botswana, Malaysia, North Korea

                So "Don't judge and you won't be judged". Maybe even for some amputation may help to redeem their misdeeds much faster than imprisonment. Where is the red line you draw? Where the media or church tels you?

      • by dkleinsc (563838) on Monday May 16, 2011 @09:36AM (#36140054) Homepage

        I'm tired of religious despots. I'm fed up with tribes who circumcise infant girls. I'm real fucking annoyed with honor killings. I have come to the conclusion that there are some traditions and cultures that need to die out sooner rather than later, and I'm willing to apply the necessary explosives to make it happen.

        I'm not willing to try to solve those problems with explosives when there are far better ways available. Compare, for instance, the conditions in Iraq (where heavy explosives were employed to oust a despot) to the conditions in Egypt (where a popular uprising ousted a despot): Things aren't perfect in Egypt, but you don't have thousands of people getting shot regularly. Similarly, if you want to go after female circumcision and honor killings, the best way to do that is to empower women to organize themselves and stand up against the men of their culture.

        The basic method here is:
        1. Give the people the knowledge that they're oppressed. That means getting Al Jazeera in there (because they regularly do investigative pieces on the leadership in that area), it means giving them the best Internet access you can, it means creating Radio Free Middle East, and it means Wikileaks.
        2. Give the people a viable alternative to tolerating the oppression. There are lots of ways of doing that, but so far the most successful ones seem to be mass protests. It's far from a 100% success rate, but if they succeed they have the advantage of reducing the chance that the evil despot is replaced by another evil despot.

      • Bull crap.

        The freedom we enjoy in the US means nothing in the end if we ignore oppression elsewhere.

        I'm tired of religious despots. I'm fed up with tribes who circumcise infant girls. I'm real fucking annoyed with honor killings. I have come to the conclusion that there are some traditions and cultures that need to die out sooner rather than later, and I'm willing to apply the necessary explosives to make it happen.

        And I'm tired of abortion restrictions, universal health care paranoia, intelligent design in schools, absurd restrictions on pain killers, worship of the rich and famous, government representatives owned by big business, an out of control military killing people by the thousands, etc. etc. Someone really needs to step in and erase the American culture and replace it with something sane.

      • by houghi (78078)

        Improve the world and start in your own backyard.
        Start with privacy and implement it as it is INTENDED. I am also sick of the "War on drugs" that the US is imposing on the rest.

        There are many other things, like no segregation of church and state (otherwise gay marriage would not be an issue) and the drinking age, but those first two should be a enough to get you started.

      • by mapkinase (958129)

        "Bullcrap" is all yours.

        "The freedom we enjoy in the US means nothing in the end if we ignore oppression elsewhere." this is absurd.

        Obviously the high moderation status of your comment is the result of political views of moderators, not it's actual value.

      • by dargaud (518470)

        I'm fed up with tribes who circumcise infant girls.

        Funny, isn't the US one of the main countries the practice penis mutilation [circumstitions.com] on infant boys ?!?

    • by Meneth (872868)
      Slashdot is not an America-only site, you know. Turks come here too.
      • by vlm (69642)

        Slashdot is not an America-only site, you know. Turks come here too.

        I think you're missing the point of the story ... "Turks come here too" ... "not for long!"

    • by silanea (1241518)
      Apparently a few thousand turks do share those "western" values.
      • by dsleif (2163084)
        But they're my values! They can't have em! I know, I'll patent them. Ah, the American Way.
      • If you mean that they'll put up with any indignity from their government as long as you don't threaten to take away their porn, then I agree with you -- Turks are just like us. (Fortunately for our government, they haven't threatened our porn in some time.)
    • by vlm (69642)

      people ... have a right to decide for themselves what is appropriate or not

      Best ultra short summary of censorship I've seen in years, is censorship takes away that right.

      Thanks for helping, although that's not what you intended.

    • The fact is that our Western norms doesn't make it the right one and people in more conservative or traditional countries in the world have a right to decide for themselves what is appropriate or not.

      I agree, people do have a right to decide for themselves what is appropriate or not. Unfortunately for the rest of your post, that means there can be no censorship at the government level, because then people are not given any choice in the matter. The fact they are demonstrating shows that the people want to

    • by nusuth (520833)

      I am not allowing other people to decide what I should *know.* Turkish culture does not value intellectual freedoms as much as westerners do and the government might be acting to people's will (IMHO they don't. Those do not have a problem with current internet censorship are basically not interested in the issue. There is a very small minority pushing for less freedom, a much bigger minority pushing for more freedom while the real majority does not care) but that is beside the point. I don't care if I am in

      • by morgauxo (974071)
        Wait, what country are you describing? 2 minorities fighting over freedoms and an aPATHETIC majority... Sounds like Earth to me!
    • by Anonymous Coward

      So what you're saying is, much like the reason that Constantinople got "the works", this is nobody's business but the Turks?

    • by 1s44c (552956)

      The fact is this should be none of the readers concern here. Leave these internal domestic matters to the Turks or whoever else.

      We don't all live in the same 'here'.

    • by bhagwad (1426855)
      But that's the whole point. These people who are marching are demanding the right to determine FOR THEMSELVES what is appropriate and inappropriate for them to watch. They just don't want the GOVERNMENT doing it.
    • more conservative or traditional countries in the world have a right to decide for themselves what is appropriate or not.

      Well, the *men* do, at least.

    • by morgauxo (974071)
      It's our culture on Slashdot to hate censorship in all forms and in all places. Who are you to judge us? Hypocrite!

      Actually, the "it's their values which are different from ours" argument, as often as it is spouted is wrong. If censorship is some people's culture, if it's their choice then it wouldn't exist. There would be no need. Nobody would be saying anything they would need to censor. Censorship is just one group, majority or not oppressing another. Attempts to redefine it around a different cu
    • by mapkinase (958129)

      It's ironic how you posted anonymously, obviously expected down moderation from polically biased /. crowd.

      That's what censorship actually is: when somebody's opinion is suppressed for political reasons.

    • "The fact is that our Western norms doesn't make it the right one and people in more conservative or traditional countries in the world have a right to decide for themselves what is appropriate or not. Who knows if the Turkish demonstrators represent the majority or whether its just a small section of the population?"

      Exactly, people not the govt.

    • by sjames (1099)

      Did you miss the part about those thousands protesting in Turkey being Turkish? Did you think they were Americans for some reason?

      Don't you think it's reasonably fair to presume if people are protesting against something, their value hold that the thing is bad?

    • by kmoser (1469707)
      Regardless of their values, people generally want the ability to decide what they and their family are exposed to without having that decision made for them by any government. It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative.
    • by Viliam (1149109)

      Who knows if the Turkish demonstrators represent the majority or whether its just a small section of the population?

      I do. People who care about something, especially if it is technical, are minority in any country.

    • by Dwonis (52652) *

      Who knows if the Turkish demonstrators represent the majority or whether its just a small section of the population?

      So tyranny is fine, as long as the majority supports it.

      You, sir, are an asshole.

  • by FriendlyLurker (50431) on Monday May 16, 2011 @07:57AM (#36139212)

    "Turkey's prime minister is threatening to sue over the recently released diplomatic cables on the website WikiLeaks. A cable written by former U.S. Ambassador Eric Edelman that alleged Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan had eight Swiss bank accounts, struck a deep nerve."

    http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Turkish-PM-Threatens-to-Sue-Over-Wikileaks-Claims-111388889.html [voanews.com]

  • by Tx (96709) on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:06AM (#36139264) Journal

    At least the Turkish government is taking responsibility for the censorship. Here in the UK, the Internet Watch Foundation basically has a free hand to censor the internet; the IWF has the blessing of the government, but it's not a government agency, so there's no parliamentary oversight, they're not required to answer to anybody as to what they blacklist, and unless they fuck up spectacularly [guardian.co.uk], nobody actually knows what they're censoring. We just have to hope it's only actually nasty kiddie porn, but as the aforementioned fuck up illustrates, their judgement is open to question. Our government likes it this way because technically the government isn't censoring anything.

    • Actually, it currently works in a similar way here. The Information and Communications Technologies Authority(BTK) orders ISPs to block lots of websites without declaring any reason. The fact that the "Law regarding crimes committed on the Internet" (indirectly) requires the websites to prove their innocence, while they can be taken down without notice.

      They screwed up big two weeks ago when they tried to take down a list of websites including the most popular domestic social portal, which has enough cashflo

    • by Bogtha (906264) on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:51AM (#36139616)

      ISPs aren't required to implement the IWF blacklist unless they want to provide services to the government. Individuals are free to use an ISP that doesn't implement the blacklist, such as AAISP [aaisp.net.uk].

      • That kind of freedom is almost twice the price of living under the filter.
      • by Caetel (1057316)
        Well, yes, it's technically voluntary for ISPs to implement the blacklist. But the previous government essentially threatened [linx.net] to make it mandatory unless every ISP 'voluntarily' adopted it.
    • nobody actually knows what they're censoring.

      The whole point of a censors office is that no-one should know anything about what, why, or how the are censoring anything.

      A good censors office is unelected, unaccountable, opaque, and their decisions must not be subject to appeal. A good censors office is the exact opposite of an open court, a short circuiting of the rule of law.

  • Reading about it, if you don't make a selection then you are in the "standard" filter, which is the same a what is currently available [todayszaman.com]. However some sites are currently already blocked so would continue to be blocked in the "standard" package.
    The guy pushing this, there is also some disagreement over if it is constitutional is doing on the basis that the free market has failed in this and the government needs to make sure that the filter options are provided and followed.
    • by nusuth (520833) <oooo_0000us@ya h o o . com> on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:43AM (#36139552) Homepage

      There used to be a very primitive way of enforcing blocking of sites: ttnet DNS's were not correctly resolving names. This lead to public aphaty on censorship issue, as anyone and their dog knew how to use alternate DNSes or if all else fails, TOR. The prime minister himself said "I can access the banned sites, you can too." The blocked site list (which must be constructed by internet users, as there is no transparency about the process at all) is absurdly long but most didn't care - they didn't even notice. Most sites are banned without a court order (not that those banned on court orders are more sensible) and on grounds of "obscenity" defined by middle aged religious conservative bureaucrat men. Now that the institutions, mechanisms and laws are in place, they are making the next step: trying to bypass filters becomes a crime. Moreover ISP passwords will be tied to RW ID, so you will use the same login if you are the same guy. No, thanks. Current situation is less than ideal, but the proposed one is a disaster.

  • will require Internet service providers to offer a choice of four filtering options

    First, horrible word choice, such a nice green eco-policy of filtering clean spring water into crystal clear bottled water, or filtering sewage before pouring it into the noble savage wilderness. Instead of what it really is, which is top down totalitarian thought-crime enforcement.

    Second, how? From a technical standpoint, I'm thinking segregate by mac address into certain ip pools, which then are censored by customized BGP feeds? Coming from an ISP background, I'm momentarily mystified about how I'd do

  • by digitaldc (879047) * on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:37AM (#36139488)
    ...Internet Surveillance Protocol

    Watch what you say, or they will be calling you a radical, a liberal, fanatical a CRIMINAL.
  • "Thousands of Turkish demonstrators poured into central Istanbul yesterday to protest against the government's Internet censorship.

    They did? I didn't hear anything about it.

    Seriously, the BBC (in the UK) were very quiet about this happening, almost as if the BBC were censoring the news to show us populist garbage of football (soccer) results.

    • Forget about it, its not important. Why don't you read the story "Tarantulas eject silk from feet" instead? You can be assured that the BBC give you all the important information you need to know in an unbiased and factully complete way. After all they are independent.
  • Let me point out that the protest was against existing arbitrary censorship as much as it was about the new 4 "filter packages" (child, family, .tr only, standard - you have to pick 1) that are to be introduced in August.
    Already there are estimates of 80000 websites censored - estimated because the list is not made public, nor the reason for censoring. Typically, the targetted sites are around : porn (ALL porn, though they like to wave around child porn as an excuse), atheism (dawkins banned), communism,
  • to a Republican-controlled country near you. #WhyBotherVoting
  • Not all their names were released.
  • As a Turkish citizen (not so proud of these days with the current ruling party), it really scares the living sh. out of me. Their belief is so fu.ed up, and they want to impose their f. up beliefs to everyone else. Today, one can not freely express himself in daily communications. Everything is getting censored, books not published gets collected. Lots of modern thinkers, politicians, columnists are in jail, just because they don't share the beliefs of the ruling party. Even a very childish site like 4chan.
  • "Being inspired by the movement, law makers, looking for support of the initiative, went to contact those who marched. However, they were unable to do so because the names were censored and blocked."

    Hmmm. Drat. That sounded better in my head.

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