Google Testing an Airborne Camera Drone 182
mbone writes "The Blogoscoped site carries news that Google has purchased a German 'Microdrone' for evaluation (here is the original German version). These devices can take off, fly a mission, and land automatically using GPS. They can carry night-vision cameras or even 'see-through-walls' Far IR cameras. Of course, the maker of these drones assures us that they cannot be a 'Big Brother in the sky' because that is 'verboten.' Is it just me, or is Google entering dangerous airspace here? It seems like the ruckus from a backyard-after-dark addition to Street View could completely overshadow the legal tussles Google has already encountered with its street-level photography." Reader Jaymi clues us to another airborne effort a couple of Google employees are mounting with some help from NASA Ames: the NexusOne PhoneSat project — to determine if low-cost mobile phone components can withstand space travel.
Privacy (Score:3, Insightful)
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Re:Privacy (Score:4, Insightful)
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This happens all the time anyhow. I'm not certain that actually knowing about it and having access to those images makes it worse. You could argue that the ubiquitous public availability in itself is a bad thing, but I don't think I'm alone in saying that I trust my "neighbor" more than I trust law enforcement or shadowy military organizations.
But then I'm not claiming that my housing development is still farmland.
Re:Privacy (Score:4, Funny)
but I don't think I'm alone in saying that I trust my "neighbor" more than I trust law enforcement or shadowy military organizations.
You don't know my neighbor.
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The imagery near my house was very out of date until recently
The age of the pics on Google have *NOTHING* to do with the private sat companies that can and do take pictures of your area at least once a week or more. Google doesn't pay for the most up-to-date pics, that doesn't mean they do not exist. *IF* I wanted to pay several thousend $ I could buy *VERY* up-to-date pics of YOUR property.
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IMHO Cars make a lot more sense for the sorts of places that Google already photographs. Remember they'd still have to send a car out to the general area to operate this thing. The best use for this would likely be places that aren't located along roads.
Perspective (Score:2)
Perspective Relativity (Score:2)
Don't forget that some people don't have the same government as yourself, therefore I cannot comment on what your government has/hasn't done with this technology.
Mind enlightening us on your particular government's use/non-use of UAV's?
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As long as the only pictures they take are legal ones from public places (including airspace), I don't have a problem.
It's always heartwarming to see people conflate the unrelated concepts of "legal" and "ethical."
Backyard party (Score:5, Insightful)
So you don't have a problem with them taking a picture of your backyard party and posting it if you have a privacy fence so its not visible from the street?
I have a problem with it, and yes i realize its 'air space' but they are crossing a moral line if they start doing that.
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Too late.
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r1c4qr7k5y8t&scene=38572790&lvl=2&sty=b [bing.com]
Bing maps has had aerial imagery for forever. The area around my house is higher res than this link, actually (down to a swingset).
Re:Privacy (Score:4, Insightful)
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I fear this might be one of those "gray" areas -- the police need a warrant, but a private company flying a drone may not.
Because they simply say it's not surveillance, and that they're doing research. I worry it might be like those companies that data mine -- it would be illegal for the government to do it, but if a private company does it and then the government agency just buys the data ... all of a
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A US court recently decided that attaching tracking units to vehicles required a warrant, even though tailing didn't. The limits of manpower provided sufficient limits on tailing, while tracking devices are so cheap in comparison to be almost free.
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As long as the only pictures they take are legal ones from public places (including airspace), I don't have a problem.
I might agree if they are abiding by FAA rules. I doubt that's the intent because the images they would get at that attitude would be little more than satellites give now. Also I doubt the FAA would see the humor of these buzzing around aircraft airspace. The problem becomes how far above your house are you comfortable having surveillance drones flying? Do you see a problem with them looking in your second story bedroom window? It's disturbing that privacy itself is becoming a quaint old fashion concept.
In most places model airplanes have free reign under 500 feet altitude. I bet these little UAVs would spent a lot of time under that limit. Probably around 100 feet. They just have to stay clear of airports, and particularly the approach and departure trajectories.
Don't get sucked in!
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These things sound like the Hexacopter [youtube.com]. It uses an onboard GPS, and you can program it to follow waypoints on a schedule, as well as to operate its camera. It's a pretty nifty thing, and there's a large community working on modifications to them. For example, I know of one person who's working on a "Roomba-style" charging/docking pad that it can fly back to automatically when its battery gets low, then take off again when it gets a new charge. Excepting severe weather, a pair of them could keep 24/7 sur
Re:Privacy (Score:4, Insightful)
At the Avalon airshow a couple of years ago there was a little electric UAV which is pretty much an inside out version of the Hexacopter. It had two counter rotating props inside a plastic shell.
I used to work for our state road authority and I could immediately see an application for incident management on freeways. We had CCTV cameras on every bend in the road so you could see any crash site and get fairly close with zoom (we had good lenses) but the goal is to book the correct emergency response as early as possible. A small UAV could hover around a crash site and send back CCTV images of the injured people inside vehicles. You could park the aircraft on the CCTV pylon and (as that guy was trying) leave it charging until required.
But wind is the problem, particularly if you need a stable camera platform. Lightness gives you endurance but it reduces inertia.
finally! (Score:2)
Angry, pissed-off bigfoot.
Of course, doubters will point out the pictures are all blurry, but that's only due to them trying to swat down these noisy annoying drones
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FAA rules require that "hobbyist" UAVs be operated under strict visual line of sight (see, for example, FAA AIR-160, UAS Interim Operational Approval Guidance 08-01). And as I understand it, commercial UAVs have much stricter rules, and currently aren't allowed to fly over major roads or populated areas.
To illustrate how daunting the regulatory environment is, a multimillion-dollar research project on UAVs for tornado research (part of Vortex 2) has "learning to interact with the FAA" at the top of its re
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Given that, I don't grok the value of the GPS-guided flight, unless they're planning to use them only outside the US or to sell them to the military.
Outside the US is a big place, and quite a good market.
Can... (Score:4, Insightful)
They can carry spy-o-scopes, but that doesn't mean they will.
In fact, they aren't even mentioned in either linked article as far as I can see.
Re:Can... (Score:4, Insightful)
They can carry spy-o-scopes, but that doesn't mean they will.
Yes, because everyone knows that Google would never spy on anyone.
Re:Can... (Score:5, Funny)
Exactly! They've got this "do-no-evil" clause that protects us from them!
Re:Can... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, because we all know that Google would never spy on anyone, or partner with anyone who does, like say the CIA.
http://www.dailytech.com/Former+Agent+Says+Google+and+CIA+in+Partnership/article4774.htm [dailytech.com]
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/141153 [dailypaul.com]
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/07/exclusive-google-cia/ [wired.com]
You'd better watch out (Score:3, Funny)
It sees you when you're sleeping, it knows when you're awake, it knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake.
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So you're saying that Santa Claus is real? That Google is Santa Claus?
This could get complicated.
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That Google is Santa Claus?
Well, both Google and Santa Claus give out all kinds of free goodies, so it's possible. Besides, Santa's been in beta for a while now.
Pull! (Score:5, Funny)
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Smile when you do it. They'll have a high res mug shot for the police and your exact GPS location. :)
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or perhaps a home made SAM? (microcontroller, ir sensor, model rocket).
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This is Slashdot, for FSMs sake!
HERF the fucker instead using a hidden antenna.
No birdshot, no frothing anti-freedom (even the Daily Kos "gets" the Second Amendment), anti-gun screeching triggered by the suggestion of birdshot,
and the HERFed device satisfyingly quits working.
Are volley guns legal in the U.S.? (Score:2)
Seems like the perfect response, [wikipedia.org] especially if you could get one of the newer types that just fires a bunch of .22LRs. "Newer" is relative, of course. I don't think anyone has actually made volley guns for general sale in at least 50 years, probably much longer.
Re:Pull! (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't have the mental capacity to recognize a joke then you don't have the capacity to form educated opinions on legal issues.
Re:Pull! (Score:4, Informative)
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What's the point having a gun if you're not gonna use it? Better sell it and get some beers instead!
Seems like more of what they do already (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Seems like more of what they do already (Score:4, Informative)
I don't see how these would be any different than their existing aerial photography. All of the high resolution stuff they have is from planes with cameras at a few thousand feet.
Their's, not their competitions' who use aerial photographs from about 100m to do "Bird's Eye View". It's much better than Google's and I find myself using Bing's maps more and more. Perhaps this is so that they can do the same sort of thing w/o having to outfit a Cessna.
Re:Seems like more of what they do already (Score:5, Informative)
Google already has a 45-degree bird's eye view in some areas. Switch to satellite view and zoom into their Mountain View headquarters, for example.
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That's a whole load of solar panels. I also spot a sort-of chessboard next to the entrance and a basketball court on the parking lot, but the whole place looks pretty deserted, with only a few people walking around and the parking lot is pretty empty.
I love this view, it's like simcity, but real!
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Yeah, nice quality (but not "too good" - such drones can't carry really good photographic gear, for starters) aerial photos, frequently updated, lower cost, lesser risk than sending small airplanes for similar shots & in the same places & as frequently; perhaps also a nice way to obtain textures for Google Earth - what's not to like?
Not everything needs to be about 1984; especially since such photos were already being made. Now they can show more places, and be more current, something which people c
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People will get tired of outrage eventually, right?
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I think the majority of right-thinking people are sick and tired of being told that the majority of right-thinking people are sick and tired.
I certainly am not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.
Brought to you by... (Score:1)
Opt-Out file? (Score:5, Funny)
Can't you just place a robots.txt file on your property to tell the GoogleDrone not to index it?
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yes in fact you can buy the required sign from these folks http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=1§ion=products [mossberg.com]
(please of course check your local regs before purchasing)
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Does the law in your area prevent you from painting your rooftop with a shocking picture of your choice?
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The law doesn't, but your local covenants might.
That said, I now feel an urge to paint my roof to make my house appear to be bombed-out rubble, or perhaps a pit to hell.
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hmm, maybe arrange your root files using black and white tiles so that it shows a QR code for "private".
Sinisterish (Score:2)
One? I expect very high resolution aerial views of the Googleplex office compound then.
Can != will (Score:5, Informative)
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Yes, the drones can carry long wavelength cameras to see through walls. They could also carry nuclear weapons. Irrational paranoia aside, Google is probably just trying to compete with Bing's Birds-Eye map capabilities.
Irrational paranoia? Who have you been talking to!
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You're telling me they could also carry nuclear weapons?! Run for your life!
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They could also carry nuclear weapons.
Rubbish. They carry giant magnifying glasses so they can burn you like ants.
Probably cheaper... (Score:3, Insightful)
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actually a fair amount of the imagery comes from aircraft already - it would be hard to believe that the soda straw view provided by this little drone could be cost effective - the coverage rate is so low you'd need thousands of them to get the equivalent coverage of an aircraft
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Those microdrones can fly at ridiculous heights.
For all intents and purposes they are a plane. Just slower, more stable and easier to set up and use.
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Granted, but the requirement for a runway makes city use tricky.
Also a plane big enough to carry a good quality camera with enough battery power for a decent run would be quite dangerous in suburbia in a crash. These drones however would just drop straight down if there was a problem with minimal chance of hitting anyone.
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Since they're exactly the same job - no, I see no reason why there should be any significant difference in the work involved.
True of *one* small area. Multiply that by the (tens of?) thousands of changes annually in the US alone...
There is a hobby group for UAVs (Score:5, Informative)
In fact, there are several. Aside from an RC plane of some sort, all you need is about $100 in parts and some electronics know-how to build your own (basic) UAV.
Of course, it won't be as sophisticated as a multi-million dollar micro-UAV or one of the Air Force's Predator drones, but medium range (several miles) surveillance, automated take-offs and landings, GPS waypoint tracking, infrared cameras, etc. are not outside the realm of the hobbyist.
Check out http://www.diydrones.com/ [diydrones.com] to see what I mean.
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In fact, some Dutch OpenStreetMap people are working on their own UAV, also with mapping in mind:
http://blog.opengeo.nl/ [opengeo.nl]
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Aside from an RC plane of some sort, all you need is about $100 in parts and some electronics know-how to build your own (basic) UAV.
While the FAA has recognized that most of these toy UAVs still qualify as RC aircraft (as long as they stay below 400 and fly within line of sight), it is illegal in the United States for a corporation or government entity to purchase or build a UAV for commercial or public use without completing an airworthiness certificate and obtaining a Certificate of Authorization from the FAA [faa.gov].
Per the FAA:
Currently, civilian companies may not operate a UAS as part of a business without obtaining a Special Airworthiness Certificate - Experimental Category (SAC-EC). However, this SAC-EC is very limited in scope of operational use. Contact FAA for details or see FAA Order 8130.34.
So don't expect Google to be flying this over populated areas for quite a long time. Current estimates are abou
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Predators do not have automatic takeoff and landing capabilities.
Google Roof View (Score:2)
No privacy issues here!
It's useful because you can, ah, make sure your roof is still in good shape and doesn't need shingles?
Yeah.
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Imagine a neighborhood where all the houses are the same size and all the roads are configured in a grid. Using different colors of shingles, you could make bitmap images visible from the sky.
News organizations, danger zones (Score:3, Insightful)
I am really surprised news organizations have not started using these to cover situations.
Live from Irag/Afghanistan/Mogadishu/Pakistan ...
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Is it just me . . . ? (Score:2)
two words. (Score:2, Interesting)
I can't help but think... (Score:2)
I can't help but think they only got this just so they would have a cool toy to play with at their Mountain View campus
For the Fear Mongers who are too lazy to RTA (Score:4, Insightful)
In the original German article, they mention how some of the drones they've sold have been equipped with IR and thermal imaging technologies, and give you a teaser that you can come back on Monday to read about the companies that already use the technologies.
Sounds to me like Google is merely trying to vastly improve Google Maps and Google Earth's satellite views with cheap yet efficient technologies, and Wirtschaftswoche is just trying to sell magazines. Of course, who am I to be a naysayer of the tinfoil hat wearing among us...
New term: war piloting. (Score:2)
You know Google is going to "accidentally" forget to turn off their wifi sniffers on these guys too.
Tool (Score:2)
You can crack open a clam with a rock. Or you can crack open another persons skull.
You can warm yourself and cook meals with fire. Or you can torch someones house down.
You can shoot food for your family with a gun. Or you can shoot a family.
Just because the tools become more advanced does not change the moral dilemma that has faced mankind with the proper use of all tools. They can be used for good, or evil.
The tool itself is just a tool. This article is just hype for the sake of hype.
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2001 attack (Score:5, Interesting)
The Kronos satellite(50cm greyscale resolution, 100cm truecolor) was turned to snap images of the twin towers and we had those images within some 35 minutes of the 9/11 attacks.
The point I make is, when there is the capability, and when the desire is there, pretty much anything is achievable. Someone at Kronos Satellite took it upon themselves to abandon the current photography job and turn the satellite to the twin towers.
Was that person authorised? I have always wondered.
Slightly Off Topic (Score:2)
This Slashdot post connected a few dots for me. I was reading about Wikileaks this weekend and now this post reminds me of another post a year or so back about how Google is censoring it's Google-maps for various Governments.
It occurs to me now that censoring Google-maps is a bad idea for governments unless your only trying to block attempts by poor amateur crackpot terrorists. If you have the money you could no doubt get a hold of an uncensored world photo database and then all you would need to do is co
Has anybody said it yet? (Score:2)
Really? (Score:2)
They can carry night-vision cameras or even 'see-through-walls' Far IR cameras.
Seriously? If we're gonna talk about equipment that hypothetically *could* be attached to the drone, you might as well say "They could be equipped with toxic case, small bombs, and laser guns. They could launch GPS-guided sharks at unsuspecting people in swimming pools below. The sharks could be injected with adrenaline and be dunked in human blood just prior to being launched."
They could do all that, or they could just attach a damn camera to it and take some damn photographs for Google Earth.
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Well, they are delivered to google with infrared and optical cameras.
The second part is of course pure conjecture and not very realistic, but the first is already realized.
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Unintended Consequences (Score:2)
Letting such technology lose may have consequences both good and bad that we can not hope to predict. For example suppose an eye in the sky was able to catch all kinds of thieves and burglars at work and then the public finds out that we do not have the money to put people in prison. That could cause real chaos as more and more people figured that the law lacked the financial capacity to punish them.
more to the world (Score:2)
One-word solution for unwelcome Google drones (Score:2)
Is it just me, (Score:2)
Re:heh (Score:5, Funny)
Pull the trigger and it's garbage.
Sounds like an idea for a website, send in your photos of your downed Google drones, with you standing there holding it up like a 10 point buck. Googlefail.com or some such.
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I bet they will be a bit high for shooting at, but would be a good test for that home built heat seeking missile project.
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Not really, Germany has quite high number of guns per capita - which, while not translating directly to "percentage of population" (for example: any self-respecting hunter will have minimum two after all), does mean there's quite enough people with guns. Plus since, IIRC, large portion of them are indeed those with hunting licenses - there will be enough guns of most appropriate type.
Still, I wouldn't expect such sillinesss taking place...
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The first is this one, a small local pest-control company Reno. If anyone can find anything objectionable about that site, definitely let me know!
I'm guess because Google's tools automatically ban companies called "Sier Rapist". I'm guessing that they probably ban all professional rapists. So, when you graduate with a masters in psychoanalysis and decide to open a practice as a therapist, you probably don't want to put that you are an ANALRAPIST [youtube.com] on your business cards.
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I know exactly what you mean. There are two places I used to live that have drastically views from street view to satellite view.
At one place, the satellite view is years old. It's not a very interesting place to look though.
Then there's this one (West corner of Doran and Isabel). The satellite view [google.com] is from within the last year. The street view [google.com] is from at least 2 years ago, but probably longer.
I lived there several years ago. I stopped by a couple years ago
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'Pods from God...
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How unsporting of you good sir,
Build your own drone and send it up there to engage in manly drone to drone combat.
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If this was the CIA, DoD, a major law enforcement agency, or hell a small one, this wouldn't even be up for debate. It would be Bad.
The are already doing this.
If it were Microsoft, HP, Halliburton or Blackwater/Xe, it would be Terrible.
You know why? These companies have already proven themselves to do bad stuff, in the name of getting more money. Google have not done that yet.
It is like find a serial killer at the door, or a girl scout selling cookies. If we are to react as you would, you would treat them b
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There are no CIA, DoD or law enforcement agencies with drones operating in public areas of the United States imaging civilians.
I admire the confidence of this statement.
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Easier way (if you are lucky enough to live where you can still posses a firearm): lock and load, find drone and dispatch drone to the great aerodrome in the sky.