Israel's Supreme Court Says Yes To Internet Anonymity 198
jonklinger writes "The Israeli Supreme Court ruled this week that there is no civil procedure to reveal the identity of users behind an IP address, and that until such procedure shall be legislated, all internet postings, even tortious, may remain anonymous. The 69-page decision acknowledges the right to privacy and makes internet anonymity de facto a constitutional right in Israel. Justice Rivlin noted that revealing a person behind an IP address is 'an attempt to harness, prior to a legal proceeding, the justice system and a third party in order to conduct an inquiry which will lead to the revealing of a person committing a tort so that a civil suit could be filed against him.'"
Topsy Turvy World We Live In (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok. Let me get this straight. Israel, one of the most right wing western countries has explicitly approved internet privacy, while France, one of the most left wing western countries, is actively trying to put the internet genies back in the bottle [spiegel.de].
Maybe my political analysis toolset needs to move out of the 20th century....
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Perhaps we can hope this idea spreads out of Israel in the same manner some other ideas did, but quicker.
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"Prop up" implies that the people of Israel don't support it. Indeed, they do - it's a democracy. The people support it by definition. If you want a theocracy, look around at the neighbors.
And no, Israel is under no obligation to give citizenship to the Muslim Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. If you think they are, maybe you should push for the surrounding Muslim population to give citizenship to their Muslim Palestinian populations first. Funny how the UN doesn't pass resolutions for that to hap
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Last I checked, there are Muslims and Arabs in the Knesset. As for Israeli corruption, it certainly exists and needs combating, much like in any nation. In comparison to their neighbors, corruption is pretty darn low. In comparison to the US, it's likely higher.
As for non-Jewish Israeli citizens outpacing Jewish growth, I think it's not going to happen.
As for Muslim states, there are plenty in the region. Too bad none of them want the Palestinians, treating them far worse than Israel does.
Re:Topsy Turvy World We Live In (Score:5, Insightful)
Token members are in the Knesset but Israel by over half [haaretz.com] admitted they want to deny rights to Israeli Arabs including the right to vote. This coming generation in Israel is leaning ever harder to the right and I would not be surprised if they start instituting Jim Crow laws.
The average age of a Jew in Israel is over 40 and 10,000 under the age of 55 leave Israel every year. The average age of an Arab is under 20 and they have almost twice amount of children. There is simply no way for Israel to stay Jewish unless they have significant uptick in immigration because most of the Jewish population is past child-bearing age.
Why should another state "want" the Palestinians, they deserve their own state and they will have both the Palestinian territories and Israel itself just by outbreeding the Jewish population within 30-40 years. That is of course as long as the Jewish population does not continue in their bid to delegitimize the claims of the Arabs to a full and open democratic system. In our lifetime there will be an Arab prime minister of Israel, let that sink in.
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> continue in their bid to delegitimize the claims of the Arabs
> to a full and open democratic system
Do the Palestinians *want* a full and open democratic system? That's news to me.
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First, your statistical data is wrong. According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics [cbs.gov.il] the median age of Jews in Israel is 30.6 years (as of 2005) and it's impossible the average is 10 years higher. The median age for Arabs is 19.8 years, so the average is indeed just a little over 20 (as of 2005, again).
As for the number of births per woman, the number for Israeli Arabs is 3.72, for Israeli Jews 2.69, so the difference is not that great. The prediction is that by 2025 the Arab population will count f
End apartheid now (Score:2)
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Agreed. The problem is, the Muslims don't want to. They're opposed to all Jewish presence in Judea, Samaria, and East Jerusalem, and have been driving Christian Arabs out too, especially from Gaza.
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They "deserve their own state"? Do the Chechnyans, Kurds, Bedoins, Coptic Christians, Atheists, Mestizos, Tibetans, Taiwanese (not Chinese immigrants), each individual native tribe, Aborigines, Okinawans, and so on deserve their own state? Frankly, every single one of those groups deserve their own state more than the Palestinians, who are largely just Arab Muslims. None of those groups supported terrorist leadership while suckling off the international teat for the past 50 years, and none have a homeland
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Arab members of the Knesset have hardly been "token". Elias Nakleh, an Arab, was Deputy Speaker of the 7th Knesset.
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Like the idea of creating your own nuclear deterrent to prop up a theocracy that operates under the guise of a democratic country?
Indeed, see USA vs. USSR (no, you don't need an anthropomorphic god to worship, there are many godless-and-still-religious dogmas around for you to follow).
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Actually, I don't see anything in your link about the French making a blanket ruling against Internet anonymity. The French law gives the govt the power to deem websites illegal and block them, and to wiretap computers with the equivalent of a warrant, even by using a trojan. Those might
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They didn't explicitly "approve" anything. They basically said that the legislature needs to make a law about it first. How long before that happens?
Not long, probably. Then again, we all know absolute, unrestrained, unchecked freedom is not a desirable thing either. What I can tell you is that the Israeli parliament has a relatively open and uncorrupted law-passing procedures (which is not the same as saying that stupid, anti-democratic laws never make it through). When such a law goes through the Knesset, we (civil liberties groups) will be there to voice our concerns. Shachar
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Israel may just happen to have a bunch of Fascists that would make their grandparents roll in their graves in horror running it at the moment but it's the only place in that part of the world where the rule of law is repected at all. In other places it's simply "might makes right".
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France? Left-wing? You must be in the “We in the US hate the French” reality distortion bubble.
The government there is full of right-wingers and even nationalists!
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It could be because we mostly hear about economic issues, not cultural/nationalist sort of issues. On economics, Sarkozy is considerably to the left of even the U.S. left, being pretty openly against "Anglo-Saxon capitalism".
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As is nearly every other European country. USA is so conservative that even your communist party - if there is any - would probably be more right wing than European social democrats.
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That's true, but my impression is that Sarkozy is left-wing even by European standards on economics--- he's left of the UK Labour party, for example.
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True, but then again UK is not exactly European standard.
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Compared to a country like the US, yes.
Terms like "right wing" and "left wing" are inherently relative. France of course has politicians that are fairly described as "right wing" by French standards, but they're still left-of-center (i.e., liberal) by US standards. If you prefer to look at things from the other perspective, the "moderates" in the US are pretty right-wing by French standards.
France is not as far left of center as, say, Sweden.
And the US (or Israel for that matter) is
Re:Topsy Turvy World We Live In (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, that left-wing vs right-wing thing was misleading even before it became obsolete, way back in the '80's. But, it still has a catchy sound to it, and prevents people looking at the real issues.
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Well in theory the right wing is all about individual freedom whereas the left wing is about what's good for everyone. This particular decision fits perfectly with that.
What is strange is all the OTHER decisions where the right wing has restricted individual freedom to do something which is good for everyone (or at least to prevent something which is bad for everyone).
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Now that made me laugh.
The right wing is about freedoms like the freedom to own people. The freedom to force your believes on others. The freedom to put large percentages of the population in prison for exercising their personal freedom. The freedom to take the commons and turn it to personal profit while socializing the cost.
The left wing is usually about freedoms like not being owned by others. The freedom to not have others believes shoved down your throat. The freedom to do what you like in privacy with
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Gah! The original poster was pointing out that the terms left and right are meaningless. And they two of you respond by arguing what left and right mean? *whoosh*
The Israeli high court (Score:2)
The Israeli high court is truly a beacon of democracy and considered relatively left-wing inside Israel.
It has quite a bit of opposition inside Israel.
In my opinion as an Israeli, it is often hated in Israel for upholding Israel's actual law (including those about preserving human dignity) even when it contradicts the right-wingers goals or sometimes even the interests of the Israeli state.
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Don't forget that what Americans consider left wing is still right of centre.
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Actually, Israel is not right wing. Even under the "right wing" governments, Israel retains many socialist features, including a universal health care system. In spite of some censorship for military reasons, civil liberties in Israel are better protected than in most countries in the world. Indeed, even Arabs have greater political rights, including freedom of expression, than in any Arab country. (Israel was, not coincidentally, the first country in the Middle East to give Arab women the vote.)
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Maybe my political analysis toolset needs to move out of the 20th century....
Indeed. You have shown yet another example of why "right" and "left" [politicalcompass.org] are meaningless ways to compare philosophies.
Even for torts? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is there a good argument to cover even tortuous actions under this? I'm for a free Internet, but defamation on the Internet is still defamation (for example).
Of course, an anonymous source who defamed someone else could be judged by society; (if you're not willing to sign your name then why should we trust you?). That said, there's a strong argument for a defamation plaintiff that even if the defamer is anonymous he or she is still subject to the harm from an anonymous person's defamation.
Re:Even for torts? (Score:5, Funny)
I can't believe you even bothered to make this simplistic argument, considering you are a kitten-rapist.
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He got the idea only a week ago when he caught the family cat eating his mother out.
Re:Kittens (Score:2)
He works for the FBI. You know how they have to work strange words into conversation to signal the A-OK for the SWAT assault? Someone creating the code word had a sense of humor.
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And there's a strong argument that people are quickly getting used to the fact that anyone can say anything on the internet, so few people will believe an anonymous poster.
You can go either way, but I always prefer to err on the side of liberty.
This is the normal case, world-wide (Score:2)
Getting an order before a suit is filed is extraordinary and requires a commitment to the court to commence an action.
In York University v. Bell Canada Enterprises and Rogers Communications. York University successfully applied for a "Norwich Or
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You can do that right here in the USofA if you really want to. All you need to do is post from a Starbucks, McDonalds or someplace else with free WiFi.
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Or for a greater level of personal anonymity, the local bus system (which now has wi-fi) -- that even gets rid of the possibility of location-specific identification, since you can stand by the side of the road and connect to passing busses.
Hardly narrows it down (Score:5, Funny)
The Israeli Supreme Court ruled this week that there is no civil procedure to reveal the identity of users behind an IP address, and that until such procedure shall be legislated, all internet postings, even torturous, may remain anonymous.
The occasional posting may well be tortuous, but the vast majority of postings on the Internet are torturous. Check out MySpace and Facebook to see what I mean.
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Of course, some postings might even be tortious.
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Have you tried 4chan? ^^
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I think this discussion is turtUous...
But the quoted article discusses tort law and that's tortIous.
All of it is torturous.
Ehud
Torturous? (Score:2)
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Getting warmer. Tortious.
Unless they actually meant torturous - but most blogs aren't THAT bad.
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A new meaning to the phrase cruel and unusual punishment.
Israel, not Turkey, deserves the European Union. (Score:4, Interesting)
Israel, not Turkey, deserves to be a member of the European Union (EU).
The Turks have long attacked human rights. In Turkey, suppressing free speech on and off the Internet is almost a national sport [jamestown.org]. You can be arrested and imprisoned for claiming that the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide [guardian.co.uk].
After a Congressional committee approved a resolution ascribing responsibility for the genocide to the Turks, the Turks withdrew their ambassador from the USA.
This sort of behavior is not what we Westerners want to see in the European Union. The Israelis act more like Europeans than the Turks and deserve EU membership far more than the Turks.
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Israel was started with a clean slate, the backing of the United States and one of the world's largest immigrant populations who were already used to a certain sense of liberty in society; however it is not doing nearly as well as other countries in the EU in respecting human and civil rights. This is not just about apartheid in Palestine, religious courts or the numerous violations of the Geneva convention Israel has committed over the years but goes to the heart and soul of the government of Israel and
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There is no apartheid in Israel. In Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, the Muslim Arabs are indeed trying to enforce apartheid, but that is hardly the fault of Israel.
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The government was started with a clean slate, not the other political situations which abound from the illegal appropriation of Arab and Palestinian land. Their government was allowed to grow and mature under the auspices of cooperation ensured by the international community, esp Britain, France and the US. Even if Israel itself was breaking the law from day one, it felt almost no repercussions for it politically with the west. Its military strength bolstered by cold war paranoia is still unmatched in t
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You can be arrested and imprisoned for claiming that the Turks are responsible for the Armenian genocide.
Well, to be fair, in a few EU countries you can be arrested for saying that the Holocaust didn't happen.
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Where's your sense of justice? why are you applying patterns without thinking at all?
Turkey is a perpetrator trying to cover up a crime. When they arrest someone it's because they are closer to a tyrannical state than a democracy.
The holocaust has without a shade of a doubt happened, the Germans even took responsibility and admitted. Therefore, by denying its existence you should rightfully be arrested for antisemitism and racism.
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See, I don't think antisemitism or racism should be arrestable offenses, or even illegal. Beating people up because you don't like their race should still be illegal, but that's just plain old assault. Freedom of thought and speech too important to simply ignore whenever it's convenient to do so.
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Thoughts are not arrest-able... but actions are.
Clearly, if everyone were being "thought racist" then you wouldn't know racism even exists! but since racist often act upon their thoughts, you have a serious problem.
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In spite of the loud posturing of the Dubai authorities, no evidence whatever has been produced that al-Mabhouh was assassinated by Israel. Israel is certainly a likely candidate, but other Arab factions might equally well be responsible. In any case, if Israel did assassinate him, it was morally perfectly justifiable. He was a leader of a criminal organization, one that by its own admission engages in daily war crimes, whose stated purpose is genocide. He was known to have participated in acts of war agai
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If his assassination outrages Europeans, what that reflects is the lack of respect that Europeans have for fundamental human rights and international law when it comes to Jews.
Dear sir, we are not cowboys and this is not the far-west. In Europe we have this thing called Court of Law. There was no international arrest mandate for al-Mabhouh, and even if there was one, he was supposed to have a trial (call us old fashioned here in good ol' Europe, but we kind of believe that before assassinating people, they are kind of supposed to have a trial and check if the accusations against them stand in a court of law).
There are international arrest mandates for former Israeli ministers her
No constitution (Score:1)
Re:No constitution (Score:4, Insightful)
Capital letters make the entire difference here. It has no formal Constitution that's any more difficult to amend than any other law. It still has constitution, just not a constitution. In that regard, it's like the United Kingdom.
They still have constitutional rights, in the sense that there is no lawful means for approving some action against a citizen, which historically, has been the norm when referring to constitutional rights, rather than referring to some creative interpretation of a fundamental unabrogable Bill of Rights that take a more difficult procedure to amend.
Jefferson and Paine argued that George III was violating the English constitution, in that customs Englishmen typically enjoyed, they were being denied in the Colonies sans representation. “He has refused his Assent to laws the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good” was one of the complaints in the Declaration of Independence. Not once did George III refuse royal assent to an act of the British Parliament; it was only the colonial legislatures. The last time a bill passed by the British Parliament was refused Royal Assent was in 1708, so to the Colonial governments, that was something completely unheard of, and violated their constitutional conventions (lowercase C's).
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Thank you. This is the kind of post that convinces me that it's still worth reading (and posting) on Slashdot. I love learning something new from somebody who's incredibly knowledgeable about an area that I am not, especially in a completely unexpected thread.
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Technically correct, although the Israeli system [wikipedia.org] is close enough.
They don't need no stinkin' civil procedure . . . (Score:2)
Civil procedure only matters in judicial proceedings. When the government acts extrajudicially, civil procedure has no scope.
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Business opportunities abound... (Score:2, Funny)
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It wont last (Score:2)
Anonymity is counter to governmental operations.
They are just trying to win government support today by looking like they care about their people, and will pull out a 'its for the children' event later to take it away, with a bunch of flag waving and applause by the people..
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously? Talk about flame bait. All the other people in the region have tried to wipe them off the map several times, and continue to espouse the total destruction and death to every last Israeli.
Seriously... if you lived with those kinds of neighbors, you'd be a bit cranky as well.
If Israel was more like it's neighbors, the media would be controlled and all the locals would be driven out, like has happened to most of all the jews in Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Eqypt, etc, etc, etc.
Stick to the topic.
Kudos to Israel for respecting privacy rights.
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. Read the entire history of Israel, not just the propaganda that you learned in Sunday School, and in the mostly biased United States media outlets.
Israel has the utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights. They've proved that repeatedly.
GP's irony is on target.
Re:Wow! (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously. Read the entire history of Israel, not just the propaganda that you learned in Sunday School, and in the mostly biased United States media outlets. Israel has the utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights. They've proved that repeatedly. GP's irony is on target.
Seriously. Get out of your cave and look at some of the current news. If by "Israel" you mean the government then I can find quite a few examples disproving your statement. A nation with utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life probably wouldn't send a response team to Haiti [latimes.com], which isn't exactly known for it's thriving Jewish poplulation, accept and provide aid to Somali refugees [bartamaha.com] or send relief units to Kenya [somalilandpatriots.com]. How many other western countries have done that? And if by "Israel" you mean the population then you just made a gross over-generalization. I live in Israel and neither my friends nor myself have an "utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights". Quite the opposite actually. You accuse the OP of listening to biased news outlets, but it seems as if you prefer to extrapolate from your narrow understanding of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to Israel's view of the entire world. Wow.
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Israel long lost any claim on morality. In your conflict you repeatedly used a superior military to kill children, women and innocents.
If this reasoning were to be followed strictly, then all countries would have long lost any claim on morality by now, including mine. At least whatever Israel does is subject to close scrutiny both inside Israel and in the outside world. That can't be said for many neighboring countries, or at least only to a much lesser degree. Perhaps it's a little bit unfair to Israel, but I guess they have to cope with your prejudices.
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For people who agree with me and want these hypocrites to go to hell:
Stop buying products from Israel.
Vote with your wallet.
You - will - lose. And history will take care of you. How is it to live, knowing all you do will be futile and people will remember you with deep contempt and as an example of how people become evil?
Bye now, asswipes. Go kill a baby. I know it makes you feel good.
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Please, point me to your reasonably unbiased resources on the history of Israel. Cite some links to your historical documents, because you are making an exceptional claim that needs evidence. I mean, not just that one dude or a particular military general disregarded the lives of some civilians on the opposing side. But that the majority of citizens have the utmost contempt for a non-Jew's life and/or rights, and that the government has consistently reflected that, as you claim.
You can't. Because it's a
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2102081.stm
There was clearly a tank crew that did something very terrible some 8 years ago, killing two children (and most likely not in a completely accidental incident).
That's awful and those people should be in jail.
But unfortunately for your inane argument, it has nothing to do with your original statement. At all. You could point to dozens of incidents in Afghanistan over the last few years where children have been killed by US soldiers. Some where accidental,
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"That's awful and those people should be in jail."
Are they in jail? I don't think so. Why not? Because, of course, the Israeli government and the judicial system don't care enough about no Israeli lives to prosecute an Israeli "good ole boy".
Ahhhh, you ask, ""America doesn't value non-American lives"?"
The answer, of course, is both yes and no. We DON'T care, as a nation, for non-American lives, in general. On the other hand, we care enough to imprison our soldiers who commit crimes similar to what happ
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No, but I do realize how pathetic you are to take my words, mix them around, and try to make me look absurd.
Israeli soldiers committed a war crime, and the crimes were not investigated by anyone other than the media. The soldiers weren't prosecuted or convicted. Nothing happened, period. That particular incident is NOT ISOLATED. At best, you might argue that such incidents are rare, but you can't even make a very convincing argument for that.
What's going on in Jerusalem today, with housing developments
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All the other people in the region have tried to wipe them off the map several times, and continue to espouse the total destruction and death to every last Israeli.
It's hilarious this got modded insightful. Can you name the specific times "all the other people in the region have tried to wipe them off the map"? Please don't embarrass yourself and say the 1967 war. Israel started that war, and it takes 30 seconds of googling to see their own leaders at the time admit it was not a "defensive attack". They attacked because they wanted "Judea and Sumeria" which they consider theirs based on some God or other "giving" it to them. They also wanted a security buffer aga
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Informative)
In 1967, Arab armies were holding offensive formations next to Israeli borders, so Israel had to build up a reserve force for defense.
Israel's economy couldn't sustain holding the reserves for so long, so eventually Israel decided it had to either call of the reserves (and risk being defenseless against the coming Arab attack) or perform a preemptive strike.
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I live in Israel. Roughly 60% of the jewish population is completely secular. There are several parties in the current ruling coalition that are Religion-based, yes.
However:
1) The press here is free. Hell, it's so free that our citizens are getting somewhat tired from scandals being exposed.
2) There are "Arab" parties as well. They are represented in parliament according to the number of votes whic
Re:Wow! (Score:4, Insightful)
"Perhaps everyone hates them for a reason?"
And following your logic, perhaps the Nazis killed them for a reason, right? Yeah, it's called antisemitism and stupidity. It's found on both the far left and far right, both in great abundance.
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh seriously? Can we please mention Israel without getting into a Zionists vs Hamas flame war?
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"...antisemitism..."
Their neighbors are semitic, you idiot.
Nazis killed Jews. (Score:5, Interesting)
They weren't trying to kill Israelis. There really is a difference.
Of course, Hitler would no doubt have targeted Israel had it existed at the time, but you need to stop with the Godwinism, because a, say, '30s-era Krakow optician had little in common with any Israeli you're ever likely to meet.
Example: I have many Jewish friends, which is hardly surprisingly, since I too am Jewish. But I have very few Israeli friends. The reason? Because I've met few Israelis I care to be associated with. The majority of non-extremist Jews probably share a similar view.
Interestingly - at least, I think so - I and many other Jews have Muslim friends. Jews and Muslims have much in common, and we get along rather well, generally speaking, but the same cannot be said about Israelis and Muslims, unless you include the fact that they are vying for the same dirt.
Too many Israelis, all of them really, roll out the Nazis, and the Holocaust, and all of those other terribly emotive images whenever they or their motives and behavior is questioned or challenged, but the truth is that Israelis are their own worst enemies.
Now watch the mods spill their crack as they scramble to consign my post to the oblivion of -1 land, because we all know that Israel is sacred.
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yuo are antisemute!
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Example: I have many Jewish friends, which is hardly surprisingly, since I too am Jewish. But I have very few Israeli friends. The reason? Because I've met few Israelis I care to be associated with. The majority of non-extremist Jews probably share a similar view.
Does this mean to imply that all Israeli Jews are extremist?
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There are Jews and then there are Israelis. Jewish or not Israelis aren't like other Jews. Israelis use the atrocities committed against Jews in the past as excuses for committing their own atrocities. This is why so many Jews prefer to live outside Israel, including me. Israel represents Israelis, not Jews, and many Jews do not like what Israel represents. Including me.
Re:Nazis killed Jews. (Score:4, Insightful)
No need to invoke Godwin.
when rockets start raining down on your town from a neighboring refugee camp, what will be your proposed solution?
As a side note- Yes, I know the issue is much more complex. Yes, I know there are settlements, and bad history and oppression. However, Israel has outgrown that phase in its history. Everyone except the most hard-core right wingers have accepted the need (and moral duty) to retreat from the occupied territories and allow the Palestinians to form their own country.
We even pulled out of Gaza. Completely. No strings attached. Just upped and went. We also had to evacuate about 10k families, some of them forcibly, so it really wasn't easy. Almost tore our country apart politically, but we did it because it was the right thing to do.
And the people of Gaza did rejoice, and they created their own country and, once they have achieved their long-fought-for dream, settled down to build their future in peace. Sort of. not completely. Well, actually, not at all. They started bombing Israeli towns across the border. When asked what they want in order to stop the bombing, their answer is "to destroy Israel". It's in their charter. Really. You can check.
So no. I don't have to invoke the Nazis. I'm not happy about what we do, but I'm damned If I'll apologize for it to fools like you.
Re:Nazis killed Jews. (Score:4, Insightful)
Example: I have many Jewish friends, which is hardly surprisingly, since I too am Jewish. But I have very few Israeli friends. The reason? Because I've met few Israelis I care to be associated with. The majority of non-extremist Jews probably share a similar view.
I have Israeli friends here in America, simply because they are much like Americans; other than a slight bit of cultural Israeli chutzpah. They even tend to want peace, as many elections, and governments, in Israel have demonstrated. (Yes, even Netanyahu's previous government.) I suspect you, Anonymous Coward, are actually not Jewish at all, and are just using this as a form of the "my best friends are Jewish but..." argument, and have a political axe to grind.
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Interestingly - at least, I think so - I and many other Jews have Muslim friends. Jews and Muslims have much in common, and we get along rather well, generally speaking, but the same cannot be said about Israelis and Muslims, unless you include the fact that they are vying for the same dirt.
If someone thought of me as of an inferior being, I certainly wouldn't attempt to consider him "a friend". That would be a very costly folly.
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There are plenty of good people in every religion.
Especially those who don't take the religion all that seriously, which in case of Islam means basically apostasy, at least in the eyes of those who *do* take it seriously?
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Instead of fighting about Israel, help me. I live in Israel but I can't find a girlfriend. I never had a serious relationship.
So.. is there any cute girl from here who would take me? I'm 34 years old.
-----
Offer not valid for: girls who are mentally unstable, fat girls, evil girls or smokers
Your problem is you're looking for girls on /. There aren't any girls on the internet, much less on slashdot. ;-) I'd recommend trying a matchmaking service in Israel.