Chinese Reactions To Google Leaving China 249
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Most people have already heard western media reactions to Google leaving China proper and redirecting search traffic to its Hong Kong branch, but ChinaSMACK has translated comments from average Chinese internet users so that non-Chinese can understand how the Chinese public feels. While many of them are supportive of the government on some level, they were able to obtain many comments by those critical of the government before they could be 'harmonized' (deleted) and translated those as well. The deleted comments often complain about the wumao (50 cent party), government employees who are paid 50 cents RMB per post supporting the government, and worry that the Chinese Internet will become a Chinese LAN."
What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's fine to get reports of what's going on inside China from bloggers and news sources that have a vested interest in painting China in the worst light possible. But from my experience with mainland Chinese, they are for the most part satisfied with their government's actions.
If all you are ever fed is McDonald's and no one ever tells you about anything else, your view of food is severely limited. This works both ways in the case of China.
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:5, Insightful)
As hard as it may seem to grasp this concept, there are people who hold their beliefs very closely yet hold beliefs that are diametrically opposed to you.
Take the U.S. as a prime example. For what many Europeans take as incomprehensible, the nearly violent antipathy of many Americans towards national health care, these Americans feel strongly that it is in their (and their country's) best interest to not have such a system.
In China, the censorship is perhaps seen as a good thing, to "protect the children" or other public policy reason. With only the Western "freedom is everything" cultural viewpoint fed to us, how can we really form a valid opinion either way?
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not just Europeans thinking this...
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:2, Insightful)
A handful of hate groups can throw enough bricks to get on the news, that does not make them "many Americans".
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:4, Insightful)
Attitudes don't form in a vacuum. Your attitudes are come a bit from yourself, and a great deal from the average of attitudes expressed by people around you. When expressions of negative attitudes to government are discouraged and suppressed, and positive ones rewarded (this 50 cent party thing - not something exclusive to China, I'm sure), it will drag up everyone, especially those who like to think that they arrive at their attitudes on their own.
It happens and has happened in much worse places than China (East Germany, Burma). Especially if you are a well-off Chinese, it makes a lot of sense to just "not be interested in politics" and defend the government.
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:5, Insightful)
Luckily, you have the freedom to examine the societal benefits and problems that the "freedom is everything" culture brings with it, while at the same time examining the parallel consequences of a society where the availability of information is centrally controlled.
You also have enough intellectual freedom to know that your prejudices are at least partially due to acculturation.
So, to answer your question - yes, you are in a position to form an informed, and potentially valid opinion. You are also in a position to form an opinion about the ability of a person with only access to the Chinese media and Internet to do so.
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
He's also a kid though. Kids tend to be a lot more easy to radicalize because they have don't have as many roots put down yet nor have they been tempered with much in the way of life experiences. Let him marry a nice chinese girl and then he's going to have to start thinking about what its like to raise kids in a country without any family nearby. Chances are he'll also have to raise his family in a mostly foreign culture. Obviously plenty of Chinese people have decided that all that was worth it for the freedom and opportunities available outside of China. But its still a hard decision to make, and plenty of Chinese have decide to go back instead - especially with the growing prosperity back home.
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:2, Insightful)
the Western "freedom is everything" cultural viewpoint
Let's get real. If freedom was everything, the US government (especially federal) would be 10 times smaller, measured in both revenue and power over the people, than it is today.
To be clear, we are talking about the most expensive, most powerful government AND world empire (with military bases in some 150 countries) in history. Considering that freedom is more or less proportional to the size of government (measured both in revenue and power over the people), the idea tha "freedom is everything" in this country is even more absurd.
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is Manifest Destiny [wikipedia.org]. Many American Christians truly believe that God® has commissioned us here in the land of milk and honey to spread democracy to the rest of the world. This is why so many have been missionaries over the years, and why our foreign policy is so phucked up. I understand why we might prefer to do business with countries that have some form of representative government, but we can't force China/Cuba/etc to become "democratic" at the end of a gun barrel or by giving them bibles.
If the US would focus more on "freedom" and less on delivering it to other countries, we would be a stronger country. Right now, our freedoms are eroding, our jobs are at risk, our manufacturing base is rusting away, half of our allies stay pissed at us, all due a national self-rightousness that arrogantly assumes that ALL countries should have a form of government just like ours. And yes, I was in the military, as was my father, so I'm not an isolationist or pacifist. I want us to have a strong defense, but the American delusion of Manifest Destiny undermines it.
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:2, Insightful)
Why should we apologize? I don't see Europe apologizing for the peoples they suppressed in:
- India
- Africa
- Egypt and the Mideast
- Southeast Asia
- China
- South America
- North America
from circa 1400s to 1900s. While the Europeans are correct that Bush did dumb stuff, at least he was only there for 8 years. Europeans did similar suppressive acts for about 500 years. It's a bit hypocritcal. Like a telling people, "Though shalt not steal," when you have several mansions filled with stolen goods (literally).
Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (Score:2, Insightful)
>>>Got a shitty village in the way of the interstate? Move. No pissy little lawsuits there to slow things down. And then the interstate is done...
That used to be true in America too, but then in the 1970s the villagers started protesting because they didn't want their homes razed. It's why Baltimore's I-95 does not connect to I-83 or I-70 (it was supposed to). It's why Washington's I-66 does not run straight-through and connect to I-95 (it was supposed to). It's also why I-95 stops in Philadelphia instead of continuing onward to New York.
The people complained.
Here in the States the "villagers" voices were heard. It's a representative Republic.
In China they get executed or imprisoned. It's non-representative.
Re:Good Lord not ChinaSMACK (Score:3, Insightful)
ChinaSMACK is a shit-stirring blog that posts only the most sensational crap that they can find.
For those of us who do not have perfect fluency in Chinese--which is what you need if you're going to understand all the in-jokes--ChinaSMACK is a fucking godsend. It's one of the few places on the 'net where you can get at least a glimpse into the inner workings of the brains of Chinese youth.
No one is stopping you from starting your own website, you know. Make sure you not only translate everything, but also put little mouse-over triggers for common words and in-jokes so the comments are actually understandable.