Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Government The Internet

Another ACTA Leak Discloses Individual Country Data 133

Posted by ScuttleMonkey
from the forced-transparency dept.
An anonymous reader writes "On the heels of the earlier leak of various country positions on ACTA transparency, today an even bigger leak has hit the Internet. A new European Union document [PDF] prepared several weeks ago canvasses the Internet and Civil Enforcement chapters, disclosing in complete detail the proposals from the US, and the counter-proposals from the EU, Japan, and other ACTA participants. The 44-page document also highlights specific concerns of individual countries on a wide range of issues including ISP liability, anti-circumvention rules, and the scope of the treaty. This is probably the most significant leak to date since it goes beyond the transparency debate to include specific country positions and proposals."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Another ACTA Leak Discloses Individual Country Data

Comments Filter:
  • Fascinating (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:03PM (#31322938)

    I can understand why diplomats tend to like their meetings and discussions to be private. It's a hard enough dance between a few select people in a government that it doesn't need to be complicated by the public getting involved.

    However, in this case, this is hardly a private conversation. Business is involved, pretty much all the world's governments are involved, and the only group not at the table is the largest and the one with the most to lose: actual people. I'd like to see what kind of justification politicians will come up with to argue that corporations can make suggestions, governments can provide input, but god forbid the people actually have a say in the way this sausage is made.

    Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that the end of the Internet as we know it is near. Too many organizations with too much clout have too many reasons to see the current Internet go away. I don't know what will come in its place, but I'm pretty sure I'll look back at the 90s/early 00s with nostalgia.

    • early 00s with nostalgia.

      Erm, what happened to the late 00s? We're already in 2010...

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Start prepping your wireless mesh network.
      • Start prepping your soon-to-be-illegal wireless mesh network.

        FTFY.

    • Re:Fascinating (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Spad (470073) <slashdot @ s p a d . c o.uk> on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:15PM (#31323138) Homepage

      On the upside, it could finally reverse the effects of the Eternal September by dramatically upping the level of technical knowledge required to operate anything interesting on the Internet.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by EdIII (1114411) *

        finally reverse the effects of the Eternal September

        I suggest we just isolate all of them and lock their web browsers to the URL they are probably going to anyways..... 4Chan. (kidding)

        dramatically upping the level of technical knowledge required to operate anything interesting on the Internet.

        Seriously... I *fucking* hope so. It's apathy right now that keeps people from obtaining the skills needed to be creating/operating the kind of networks and infrastructures capable of truly stopping ACTA's goals.

        Mesh

    • by Lifyre (960576)

      Finally we shall realize the Sprawl universe! Corporations will be kings, the government will be little more than a glorified group of pencil pushers, and hackers will glide through cyberspace slicing ICE with hot decks...

      Huh... Except for that last part and the crazy space people we're not that far away. Man I wanted an Ono-Sendai when I was a kid.

    • I'm pretty sure I'll look back at the 90s/early 00s with nostalgia.

      I already look back at the 80s/early 90s with nostalgia.

    • Re:Fascinating (Score:4, Interesting)

      by rtb61 (674572) on Monday March 01, 2010 @07:11PM (#31323852) Homepage

      That these documents have been purposefully leaked and there is indication of opposition to it's content is proof of the exact opposite. It is pretty much certain that in most modern democratic countries that most of the conditions of ACTA would be opposed by the general public and result in disruptive public opposition.

      The reality is, it is too late to try a force this through, to force the will of the corrupt minority against the will of the democratic majority. Not that this effort should be ignored or the the perpetrators of it should be publicly exposed and called to account for their corrupt activities, their intent to purposefully subvert the growing public expression of democracy.

      A full public investigation should be made of who was involved, who sponsored and supported that involvement, who actually wrote up those bits of proposed corrupt legislation, what private interests were involved whilst 99.99etc percent of the electorate were specifically excluded and, of course what criminal prosecutions need to be considered.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by L4t3r4lu5 (1216702)
        Don't make me laugh! Public prosecutions of politicians?! What the hell have you been smoking?

        Have you ever heard the phrase "If you want a puppy, ask for a horse"? This will be cut up and re-worded to sound less offensive than it is, and will pass through anyway. Or, it'll creep up to this current standard after a neutered version has been drafted.

        Don't for one second think that we have any say. Any. We lost that say when the UK became bi-partisan like the US (Tories and Labour), and Europe is impotent (
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by HungryHobo (1314109)

          This will get a title like "child-pornography and terrorism prevention and cute puppy feeding initiative" and anyone who opposes it will be labeled as a terrorist, baby-rapist, puppy starver.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mcgrew (92797) *

        And who is going to investigate? Who is going to expose? Fox, CNN, the Guardian, are all owned by the corporates. They stand to lose if this is investigated, so don't expect them to investigate. NPR and BBC? They're government, and also stand to lose if this is investigated.

        Nobody will get in trouble over this. The corporates will get what they want, as always.

    • Re:Fascinating (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DaveGod (703167) on Monday March 01, 2010 @07:16PM (#31323908)

      I'd like to see what kind of justification politicians will come up with to argue that corporations can make suggestions, governments can provide input, but god forbid the people actually have a say in the way this sausage is made.

      It's all secret so everyone gets to blame unspecified others. When it comes to publish this thing governments will be disowning provisions they worked very hard to put in place. Why couldn't the public participate? Well YOUR government fought hard for that but the others wouldn't let them, of course.

      Governments are supposed to have power because they also have accountability, but that requires transparency. Even if all the politicians really were doing their very best with only our interests at heart that would not be good enough. They must be seen to be doing so, just like justice must be seen to be done, an agent must be seen to act on behalf of his principal and a professional must be seen to be independent.

      We give them some room for national security and so on, in the hope that the bond of trust is so sacrosanct they would be unable to break it, or at least that someone would feel it and the truth would come out. Naive perhaps, but it's happening right here with these leaks. There's a good egg somewhere.

    • by CODiNE (27417)

      That's the Third Estate you're talking about.

    • For those of us who love what the internet has to offer in terms of information, entertainment and news the very idea of the Internet becoming "the CorporateNet" is depressing.

      After the takeover we will still be able to do many things - after we have logged in with our credit card.

      Then CorporateNet can charge us for every download and access (and it will not be cheap!)

      What can we do? If we fight like hell we can delay things for a while, but eventually money will rule out. So be prepared.

    • Re:Fascinating (Score:4, Insightful)

      by drsmithy (35869) <drsmithy.gmail@com> on Monday March 01, 2010 @10:14PM (#31325502)

      I'd like to see what kind of justification politicians will come up with to argue that corporations can make suggestions, governments can provide input, but god forbid the people actually have a say in the way this sausage is made.

      Easy - the people already had their say when they elected said politicians.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mcgrew (92797) *

        Easy - the people already had their say when they elected said politicians.

        You really think my one vote trumps the billions of corporate dollars that go into corporate-sponsored political propaganda? The media are controlled by the corporations, and the only information you're going to get about the candidates is from them. You're going to vote for who they want you to vote for, and you'll do so logically and rationally.

    • Look around, there's plenty of things to do. Write your MP's. Join our "We need 5m people to prevent the labels killing internet freedom with ACTA" Facebook group. (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=213704134963) Join your local political party and yell at the town meeting that it pisses you off. Tell your friends. Only by sitting on your ass do you achieve your aforementioned goal.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mcgrew (92797) *

      Business is involved, pretty much all the world's governments are involved, and the only group not at the table is the largest and the one with the most to lose: actual people.

      We're not people, we don't matter. All that matters to the world's governments is the rich. If you have less than five million dollars in the bank, you're not people.

      Who cares about us? We don't matter. We've gone back to feudal times, only now we have the illusion of representative democracy.

  • by Saishuuheiki (1657565) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:03PM (#31322948)

    "Special Measures Related to Technological Enforcement Means and the Internet"... ...really? the internet too? I thought it was just gonna shut down my warez BBS, but now they've gone too far

  • Eh? (Score:5, Funny)

    by algormortis (1422619) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:07PM (#31323004)

    This is probably the most significant leak to date...

    Seems like people have forgotten about the R Kelly incident already.

  • hmm (Score:3, Funny)

    by Sumbius (1500703) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:08PM (#31323034)
    Time to slashdot some diplomat's webpage? "We have taken your homepage hostage. Surrender your ACTA and come out of your meeting room hands up."
    • "Surrender your ACTA and come out of your meeting room hands up."

      Or come out of your meeting room hand up and then surrender your ACTA. Just remember the two key elements. Hands to be put up and ACTA to be surrendered.

  • by tlambert (566799) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:09PM (#31323054)

    Anyone else think anticircumvention is stupid?

    Basically, they are saying:

    "We can't write working code because the only people willing to write this kind of code are incompetent morons. Skilled engineers think this type of code is a bad idea, and won't touch it. Rather than rethinking our position to be more in line with reality, we want laws that make illegal to circumvent the swiss cheese code that we can actually hire someone to write." ...and now we are trying to foist this stupidity off on the rest of the world?!? No wonder they get upset about their dirty underwear going public.

    -- Terry

    • Anti-circumvention is a necessity because unbreakable DRM is an impossible dream; there simply isn't any way to give the user a lock and let them open it without also giving them the key, no matter how much you try and hide it.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by wgaryhas (872268)

        Anti-circumvention is a necessity because unbreakable DRM is an impossible dream

        So why does that make anti-circumvention a necessity?

        • Because without it they couldn't stop you from breaking the DRM and disseminating the How-To to a wider audience, who would then be very hard to catch actually infringing. With Anti-Circumvention laws you can both discourage people from breaking the DRM (or at least telling people about it) and take legal action against anyone who does, whether they've actually done anything "illegal" beyond circumventing the DRM or not.

          Anti-Circumvention laws are "Attempted Copyright Infringement".

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by langelgjm (860756)

            Because without it they couldn't stop you from breaking the DRM and disseminating the How-To to a wider audience, who would then be very hard to catch actually infringing.

            Yeah, that's worked real well. How many tutorials for ripping DVDs [google.com] can you find in a few seconds on Google?

            With Anti-Circumvention laws you can both discourage people from breaking the DRM (or at least telling people about it) and take legal action against anyone who does, whether they've actually done anything "illegal" beyond circumventing the DRM or not.

            If they haven't done anything beyond circumventing DRM, why should we care? The harm comes from infringing copyrights, not from circumventing DRM. Anti-cirumvention provisions are an "attack the tool" approach that's both ineffective and misguided.

            • by causality (777677) on Monday March 01, 2010 @07:36PM (#31324158)

              If they haven't done anything beyond circumventing DRM, why should we care? The harm comes from infringing copyrights, not from circumventing DRM. Anti-cirumvention provisions are an "attack the tool" approach that's both ineffective and misguided.

              Agreed, but unfortunately that won't stop them from financially (and/or by incarceration) ruining the lives of anyone they can catch doing it. Things like justice and sound policy are the least of their concerns.

              It's like the way the Inquisitors obviously did not believe in the power of their religious message, but that didn't stop them from threatening and torturing (and worse) anyone whom they found inconvenient.

            • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

              by azenpunk (1080949)

              Infringing upon copyrights is not harmful. It is the current state of copyright law that is harmful in reality. Violating copyrights by file sharing pretty much always helps small artists and may or may not lower revenue for large artists. Diminishing an entitlement granted to some is not harmful.

              I know it's nitpicky but its' hard to have honest discussions on this topic and it's one of my pet peeves. Nothing against you, I am just having a digital outburst.

        • Unwillingness to adapt fossilized business methods to the new economy. Happens every generation or two

          • by ppanon (16583)
            Actually a more apt description is: unwillingness to migrate from obsolete business methods based on now-defunct scarcity to less profitable business methods adapted to the new operating environment.
            • Well there have been a few companies to add value with DRM, providing features in exchange for the lost utility (I'm thinking Steam here). In exchange for them managing their rights for you, you get to have...your rights managed, in terms of hard disk crashes, multiple computers, etc.

              I admit Steam has its issues, but this is the sort of adaption I like to see...realizing that it's no longer all take and no give.

      • by langelgjm (860756) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:34PM (#31323402) Journal

        Anti-circumvention provisions, particularly as they have been applied in the US, are often used as an anti-competitive device to block legitimate competitors from making interoperable or replacement products. Anti-circumvention provisions also effectively make legal tasks illegal. E.g., ripping a portion of a DVD for commentary or criticism is allowable under fair use, but the process by which one would do so is illegal because it involves violating the DMCA, even though the end result is not illegal.

        Besides, do such provisions actually add anything useful? In order for anti-circumvention to be violated, the underlying work must be copyrighted. In any case of real harm, then the underlying copyright would be infringed as well, in which case you could sue for infringement. If an access control was circumvented but the copyright was NOT infringed, then what harm could there be? On the contrary, it is precisely those situations that we would want to allow for interoperability, etc.

        If the argument is because it stops the spread of anti-circumvention tools, it doesn't. Dozens of DMCA-violating tools are a click of a mouse button away from being installed.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by dave562 (969951)

      This thinking isn't new. It is the exact same thinking that has been prevalent among law enforcement and the government for as long as I've been working with networked computers. In the early to mid-1990s when I was young and cutting my teeth on all of these systems, there weren't any laws in place to punish offenders. The systems were wide open, using default passwords, hosting services that were wide open, etc. The hardest part of hacking a system was getting access to it, either by finding a dial up

    • by selven (1556643)

      No, they're saying:

      We're probably going to either die or become dramatically weaker in the next few decades because the internet has made our presence superfluous. However, we can make $$$BIG_MONEY for five extra years if we slow the internet down a bit with our sheer number of lawyers.

    • by aaandre (526056)

      Going public and going to be passed as a law for the public.

      The fact that a few people are aware and pissed off does not mean that all of the people won't be governed by this new law soon.

    • Anyone else think anticircumvention is stupid?

      Maybe, but not for the reason you suggest.

      "We can't write working code because the only people willing to write this kind of code are incompetent morons. Skilled engineers think this type of code is a bad idea, and won't touch it. Rather than rethinking our position to be more in line with reality, we want laws that make illegal to circumvent the swiss cheese code that we can actually hire someone to write."

      The reason they can't write "good" code in this area i

    • by Cabriel (803429)
      So, we all should be allowed to break into your house because your locks aren't adequate enough to keep the skilled and determined ones out?

      Your house is the code. Your doors and windows are the DRM. You can add more locks and/or more sophisticated locks, but as long as the door /window is there, someone can get in whether by lock-pick or brute force.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by nasch (598556)

        No, I should be allowed to break into my own house if I want to. I bought the house (DVD). Just because it came with a lock (DRM), why should I be prohibited from opening it?

  • Sneakernet? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Neighborhood wireless BBS? Somebody put up a tower and let people in the neighborhood connect to it with subscriber units?

    Group of people rent the fire hall for the weekend and throw down some gigabit switches?

    I doubt strongly people will just accept dropping file sharing. Do we start wasting actual police resources in raiding swapping parties and neighborhood wifi meshes?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by oldspewey (1303305)

      Do we start wasting actual police resources in raiding swapping parties and neighborhood wifi meshes?

      The most interesting part of this question is the word "we"

      Who do you mean by "we"? Who's resources are "we" wasting? My hunch is that the people conducting these negotiations behind closed doors have little if any problem having you spend your own (tax) dollars in order to police your own behaviour, while the "content owners" get free enforcement of their right to make profit.

  • by langelgjm (860756) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:24PM (#31323286) Journal
    Any Oregonians, call Senator Ron Wyden. He is a member of the Senate Finance Committee, and the US Trade Representative Ron Kirk (lead US man behind ACTA) is scheduled to testify before the committee this week, discussing the US trade policy agenda. In January, Wyden sent a letter to Kirk inquiring about the lack of transparency and questionable provisions in ACTA. Ask Wyden to grill Kirk on ACTA!
  • Just walk away (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TSHTF (953742) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:26PM (#31323308) Homepage
    I don't think there's much chance of changing the American negotiators views on this, but I'm still going to contact my representatives in Congress. Nothing will likely come out of it. If you are a /.er in a more reasonable country, say New Zealand or Canada, I beg you to contact your MPs and demand transparency in this process. We shouldn't have to find out about the progress of negotiations through leaks.
    • more reasonable country, say New Zealand or Canada, I beg you to contact your MPs and demand transparency in this process

      Fat chance. The current Canadian government has spent the last 4 years actively dismantling the institutions of democracy and transparency. They love the fact this is all taking place in complete secrecy.

    • by Kalriath (849904)

      Fat chance, the New Zealand government has spent the last two years actively dismantling the institutions of democracy and transparency.

      I stole the line from the Canadian, but it's just as relevant here.

      • Only two years? Its was started with Helen for I don't know how long. This is not a partisan issue. Both sides want it. And local government is doing their part too. Which is bad cus they really are from the "community".
  • For good or ill, I sense history being made here, folks. Basically the world is coming to grips with a global communications system, and is hammering out an accord on how it can be used.

    • by TSHTF (953742) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:40PM (#31323484) Homepage

      I think people are upset because this accord is being hammered out in secret behind closed doors, and citizens of the affected countries are only aware of progress on the treaty through leaks.

      There's a correct way to "come to grips" with these problems, and that way is by discussing these issues in the open, and allowing for review and comment on what's going on.

    • by ciggieposeur (715798) on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:45PM (#31323572)

      For good or ill, I sense history being made here, folks.

      Me too. This is the DMCA all over again.

      Basically the multi-national corporations are coming to grips with a global communications system, and is hammering out an accord on how it can be used.

      FTFY.

  • How can you explain your children that they are 'criminals' if they download music or video?

    Even for addults it is difficult to understand that downloading a nice song for your music collection has a very high fine.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      How can you explain your children that they are 'criminals' if they download music or video?

      You don't. You explain to them that corporations and governments are criminals and then teach them how to defend themselves from them by using darknets, etc.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Sloppy (14984)

      How can you explain your children that they are 'criminals' if they download music or video?

      By telling them that they're criminals if they don't download and use the original purchased medium [wikipedia.org] instead.

      So I guess the way to explain it to the children, is to say that "criminal" is a synonym for person.

  • by drDugan (219551) * on Monday March 01, 2010 @06:41PM (#31323502) Homepage

    does anyone else find it comic and rather ironic that almost exclusively
    because the countries involved have tried to keep this a secret, that ACTA
    negotiations now get far more attention than they would otherwise?

    I feel this needs even more attention, and more clearly explained and broadly
    disseminated explanation of what is at stake both for individuals and for
    emerging cultures as they join the ranks of "western" strong-copyright regimes.

    • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's just you. If you step out of your basement, you'll notice that not one word about ACTA has made the evening TV news or the local newspaper.

    • It always happens in these sorts of situations. Australia's clean feed filter, Iran, the list goes on.
    • by DinDaddy (1168147)

      Unfortunately, only on sites like /.

      Mainstream press and mainstream people are oblivious.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      does anyone else find it comic and rather ironic that almost exclusively
      because the countries involved have tried to keep this a secret, that ACTA
      negotiations now get far more attention online than they would otherwise?

      Fixed that for you.

      Your point would hold if the major news outlets in the US are reporting this story. Instead they focus on what high-profile individual is having extramarital sex with whom.

      There is no liberal media; there is only the corporate media, and ACTA serves to further their interes

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01, 2010 @07:23PM (#31323998)

    Business culture has saturated government to the point where it can only communicate via the means established by business. People in government are more comfortable in business meetings and negotiations than they are listening to and communicating with the electorate.

    When they have to communicate with the electorate they resort to pure pr or advertising strategies.

  • Boycott (Score:3, Insightful)

    by korpenkraxar (1731280) on Monday March 01, 2010 @07:34PM (#31324132)
    I fear this is the only action that content owners will pay any attention to, and I do not mean, stop buying and continue pirating the media. Ignore their new products, on the Internet and in real life. Put pressure on your favorite artists and writers. Tell your friends.
  • by Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) on Monday March 01, 2010 @08:09PM (#31324494)

    I've been following the whole ACTA fiasco for a while, and was getting increasingly nervous about the whole "behind closed doors" thing. Of course, many of the proposals, particularly from the US, are obviously big-corp-funded crazy talk, and the secrecy of the whole process is abhorrent. However, now that I've seen an official document for the first time, I'm actually pleasantly surprised, in that it's not as bad as I expected.

    I find it reassuring that there are quite a few notes where the EU has explicitly disagreed, apparently even indicating that this is not a point on which they will give way in some cases, e.g., on restricting any damages for infringement to actual damages and rejecting any notion of punitive damages entirely, or where they want to insert wording with the anticircumvention provisions to provide for safeguarding the benefits of certain limits on IPR (which would presumably leave open the door to excluding otherwise fair use from the anticircumvention protection).

    • On the other hand, the U.S. and Japan governments should be quarantined from the rest of the world.

    • 1. Make good decisions regarding rubbish law in public. Gain public trust. This was the DNA retention laws and the ISP Deep Packet Filtering decisions in the UK, maybe others in other European countries.
      2. Make good decisions regarding rubbish law in private, and leak those decisions. ACTA.
      3. Make good decisions regarding rubbish law in private, and let the law reflect them when applied in court.
      4. Make mediocre decisions regarding rubbish law in private, show leniency.
      5. Make poor decisions regarding rubb
  • This article has been posted more than 2 hours ago and only 60 comments so far.

    That leaves me voiceless.

  • I've contacted my Senators on a variety of issues and almost every time I get a response. On this issue, however, I have sent the EFF form in to them about 20 times and have not once received a response. I take that back, the first time I sent it, one of them responded with an email about health care.
    • by winwar (114053)

      "On this issue, however, I have sent the EFF form in to them about 20 times and have not once received a response."

      And you were expecting a response to a form letter why? I'm sure an aide put a tick mark in the appropriate column, assuming they even know about the issue.

      "I take that back, the first time I sent it, one of them responded with an email about health care."

      So you actually did get a response. Obviously the aide sent the wrong form letter but heck, what's one form letter for another. If you wan

      • I receive responses on other form letters.
  • It makes me proud that of the whole world apparently we are the ones fighting this.

    I imagine various EU members have the most to be pissed about looking at this document. The birthplace of PyratBiran and no outcry? Lots of liberal countries there that have remained silent. I'd be pissed.
    • by hibiki_r (649814)

      You'd be surprised at which European governments actually support what. For example, the Government of Spain, which call themselves Socialists and everything, are big fans of IP rights, if just because the big media groups help them win elections. They lack the balls to put an actual ban on P2P, but they have no qualms in setting up a rather large tax on pretty much anything that could copy media. Then, they wonder why piracy is rampant over there.

    • Typing? Why not use OCR? I was able to convert the PDF to text in less than a minute (losing formatting.) If I wanted to preserve formatting, it would take maybe 20 minutes.

  • I think we need to make sure the general masses are aware of these closed-door shenanigans, and one vector is the likes of social networking sites. I assume there's already something like a "Stop ACTA" group on Facebook? If not, someone should make one.

    It might be one instance where geeks have legitimate cause for using such marketing-demographic-trawling sites as Facebook, twitter, bebo, etc.

    • by sowth (748135) *

      Then join one. A quick facebook search turns up a couple groups (apparently there is a namespace collision with ACTA). Two "Fuck ACTA" (created by same guy?) and one "ACTA Awareness"

  • Here's how to restore real democracy world wide. First, we need to create a web-based lobbying organisation to lobby for our views. What we need are lobbyists world wide who will actually go in a bribe the senators and congress people like the corporate ones. Not meaningless PACs that send in worthless petitions. We need a system where all of us could contribute say, $30, and that hires the lobbyists. That's the carrot. Now for the stick. There are scandals everywhere in politics. There are likely scandals
    • by Tuoqui (1091447)

      Trying to fix democracy by utilizing everything that is bad about our current system is not the answer. Although people respond more to mudslinging and scandals which is probably why it works.

"How do I love thee? My accumulator overflows."

Working...