Prison Bans D&D For Mimicking Gang Structure 496
Trepidity writes "In a case that has been winding its way through the courts for a while now, a Wisconsin prison banned inmates from playing Dungeons & Dragons, using the justification that 'one player is denoted the Dungeon Master... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.' The prison also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of non-inmate D&D players once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their D&D playing. On Monday the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the regulation (PDF) against challenges from inmates. The court appeared skeptical of the ban, sarcastically referring to it as the 'war on D&D,' but upheld it nonetheless as having a 'rational basis.' Law professor Ilya Somin suggests that the court may have had no choice, given how deferential rational-basis review usually is."
Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Interesting)
What if they played any other sort of RPG?
Or is the law so nutty that they'll ban boardgames like Clue because it features a murder? Or Colditz, because it features escaping from a prison?
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Insightful)
So it's a stupid rule that just happens to be upheld by a fairly reasonable law.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Funny)
They don't want the prisoners to learn black magic rituals [chick.com].
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Funny)
You bastard!! That just brought back some memories of my childhood. This was a real conversation:
"So who is the dungeon master."
"Well, Jonathan is usually the dungeon master."
"Who is Jonathan?"
"He's my friend."
"So you can see him?"
"What do you mean? Of course I can see him."
"And he's the dungeon master?"
"Yes, he's the dungeon mater."
"Obviously this game is playing tricks with your mind if you think you can actually see this dungeon master."
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Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Informative)
It took me until the end of the comic to realize it wasn't a joke. WTF?
THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Informative)
"Fundamentalist" is not an inherently negative term. The term actually originates due to a series of essays entitied "The Fundamentals" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentals [wikipedia.org] published around 1900 which argued for a return to fundamental forms of Christianity. They were actually surprisingly modern. For example, they were more or less ok with an old earth and somewhat ok with evolution. So just because someone self-identifies as a fundamentalist does not mean they are a raging nutcase.
More generally, just because someone considers themselves to be a fundamentalist in a general sense is not a reason to stop being a fundamentalist. They may simply understand that their beliefs are classified as such and also think that those beliefs are simply correct. The fallacy of equating fundamenalism to being wrong is the same as equating extremism in general to being wrong. How extreme a view is is not intrinsically related to how correcr it is. In 1820 anti-slavery sentiment in the United States was an extreme belief. In 1600, heliocentrism was an extreme belief. Arguments of the form "X is extremist or fundamenalist so X is wrong" simply don't hold water.
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How can you be rational and be a self-described fundamentalist at the same time?
This is only a paradox for you because you're holding one word firmly (fundamentalist) while allowing the other one to be fluid (rational).
For example, your question becomes a lot more obvious like this:
How can you be obsessively rational and be a self-described extreme fundamentalist at the same time?
Clearly you can't.
On the other hand, an extreme amount of reason leads to paranoia and eventually insanity. At some point we have to assume that we can rely on previous conclusions and stop second-guessing everything. We use a little faith to believe that gravity will hold our shoes to the floor, and we wa
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Christian Fundamentalism is basically "Let's strip off all of the ritual, tradition, cruft, and bloat that's crept into Christianity over the past 2000 years, and get back to what was preached and practiced back in the First Century". It's like clearing a machine of all the spyware and unused programs to get back to a pristine state. Why would you NOT want to do that? A lot of what gets labelled Fundamentalist isn't. It's whack-jobbery.
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I had to laugh out loud so hard...
Table: "Only Jesus can save"
Poppycock. I have a Will save modifier of +18.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Funny)
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I never knew the full depth of Jack Chick's disconnect with reality until now... 7 gamers - 4 of them attractive girls and not a single one - of any them - overweight!
I know. It's like an advertisement for D&D. "Play Dungeons and Dragons! Meet cute girls! Spend your evenings with domineering sexy women DMs! Learn black magic and get that sourcebook you've always wanted!"
Especially since the alternative seems to be "Become a Christian! Pray! Dress up! Hang around with older men and only a few depressed- or bored-looking people your own age! Burn books! Pray... again!"
(I almost said "Hang around with domineering sexy women DMs!" in that last one, completely uninten
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I just think the Warden doesn't want them having FUN.
And when you get down to brass tacks, it is a fucking PRISON.
When I looked at this from that perspective, it makes quite a lot of sense. Prison isn't supposed to be fun, folks.
"Hey! I never have to work again, my room and board are provided for me and I get to play D&D all fucking day!" This is most old-school gamers wet dream. The only thing missing is Mom cleaning up the basement for you once a month.
C'mon folks. We have to make it a deterrent, not something to look forward to. The only reason this is fucked up is because they don't just come out and state it that way. Instead, they rationalize and tie this shit up in a courtroom. They could have just said "No fucking games" and been done with it.
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I hate to be a me-too here, but you beat me to making a comment.
I see all these people going "Waa waa they won't let prisoners play D&D in prisoner." What the fuck? It's prison. It's punishment. You're crying about not being able to play a game? What if another story came along and said "Prisoners are banned from playing Grand Theft Auto because it encourages gangs." It doesn't matter the fucking justification, it's prison. Prison isn't supposed to be fun.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no one specific reason for putting people in prison, although generally people see it as being for protection of others and punishment of criminals (some would add to discourage other criminals). Personally I think protecting others is the most important of these reasons, and if letting the inmates play D&D in anyway improves the generally negative prison enviroment Ive got no issue with it.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Informative)
Do these elements show socialization skills? Cooperative ability? Evaluation of morals? Imagine if the prison ruled that all players must be Lawful Good. All these scenarios acted out in imagination helps decision-making, provided there's a good GM in charge of player role accuracy. I actually think role-playing games could be very useful. Role-playing is quite useful in psychological counseling, is it not?
If I were imprisoned, I'd consider it a significant investment in an opportunity to work hard on improving myself, so as to no longer be a detriment to society. I would certainly not expect to be permitted to write Mein Kempf, or plot my next Una-Bomber attacks, much less communicate with folks on the outside to plot the next tragic act in my Jihad against the Great Satan.
Prison should be about rehabilitation, not detention. In there, it is a battle for hearts and minds on an individual level, and the treasure of redemption. I say someone takes the fight into the dungeons, and helps slay the dragons on the inside of every man's heart.
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> Do these elements show socialization skills? Cooperative ability? Evaluation of morals? Imagine if the prison ruled that all
> players must be Lawful Good.
Then players will secretly be chaotic evil, masquerading as lawful good. Let's see them stop that!
> If I were imprisoned, I'd consider it a significant investment in an opportunity to work hard on improving myself, so as to no
> longer be a detriment to society.
I am not sure that I am comfortable with the assumption that being in prison means
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Do these elements show socialization skills? Cooperative ability? Evaluation of morals? Imagine if the prison ruled that all
players must be Lawful Good.
Then players will secretly be chaotic evil, masquerading as lawful good. Let's see them stop that!
I'd think we would all know by now that there are basically two 'batcrap insane' alignments in the game: Lawful Good and Chaotic Neutral. It would be arguably better for these to be banned from play, before someone gets shanked.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Insightful)
With an attitude like that, good luck ever getting into prison.
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Because imprisoned automatically means guilty.
Oh, wait! We have a fallible legal system, that falsely imprisons people all the time!
Because imprisoned automatically means "monstrous anti-social demon."
Oh, wait! We have a variety of laws that are punishable by prison time, meaning that such things as repeated misdemeanors, "victimless" crimes like drug use unconnected to other crime, and all sorts of other crimes not involving violence or high theft can result in incarceration.
Basically, you're full of crap.
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How does going out into the rec yard to play basketball contribute?
How does having a library contribute?
How does having windows, lights and environmental control contribute?
If the goal of prison is just to punish and deter, why don't we just start lopping off extremities or torturing them? Perhaps because the goal of prison was more than just to punish and deter but narrow minded vengeful nitwits have decided that getting their just deserts was more important than reformation.
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Well, from another viewpoint, the whole prison system "mimicks gang structure". So, where would be be then?
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You're a fucking genius, I tell ya
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Insightful)
When I looked at this from that perspective, it makes quite a lot of sense. Prison isn't supposed to be fun, folks.
"Hey! I never have to work again, my room and board are provided for me and I get to play D&D all fucking day!" This is most old-school gamers wet dream. The only thing missing is Mom cleaning up the basement for you once a month.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but this is ridiculous.
So...having 99% of you civil rights taken from you is not punishment enough?
So...becoming institutionalized to the point that many cannot function in society for any amount of time is not punishment enough?
So...not being able to see you friends and family except for in extremely controlled circumstances is not punishment enough?
So...becoming stigmatized by society to the point that it is extremely difficult to get a decent job, get a decent apartment, or to some extent have any interaction with the public without being pre-judged is not punishment enough?
So...getting beaten and or raped on a regular basis is not punishment enough?
So...eating prison food isn't punishment enough?
So...being forced to spend large amounts of time surrounded by sociopaths isn't punishment enough?
I could go on and on...
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with you on principle, but I'd like to make one side point - prison rape is not intended as part of the punishment/rehabilitation program, and is a huge PROBLEM, one that modern U.S. culture in particular insists on treating as a joke.
It's not funny - people don't deserve to be raped, regardless of their crimes; and given that the worst offenders tend to be the ones most prone to violent, impulsive behavior, it's usually the less violent inmates that bear the brunt of it.
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OH! You must be the other rational person on Slashdot!
I've been looking for you, you know. I've got some of your mail ;-)
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"one player is denoted the Boss... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other employees... [which] mimics the organization of a gang."
Integration at its finest !
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*blink*
Fuck! You're right! Let's outlaw companies and corporations!
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Ok, but turn it around and let's take a look at it from the prisoner's eyes. You know what a prisoner's biggest problem is, at least in medium-low security wards? Not drugs, not gang wars, not being locked up. It's the ultimate torture for the human being: Boredom. Prison life is utterly, mind numbing boring. Did you know that working is a privilege in most prisons? For good reasons, you finally get to do something with your time. Yes, being allowed to work is a fuckin' privilege. It sure as hell beats sitt
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Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Informative)
A commonly held misbelief.
According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, crime levels are at about 79% of what they were in 2006. Or about 84% of what they were in 2005. There was an uptick in crime in 2001, but other than that, crime has been declining pretty steadily since 1986.
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So we should throw the whole basis of appeals by wrongfully sentenced prisoners out the window? Or just their ability to protest abuses and mismanagement of the system. Sure, maybe this doesn't constitute those, but your suggestion would cut those down just as severely.
who should these "outsiders" be? How do you decide whether they are being impartial? What are you paying them?
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Sounds like a winner.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Funny)
What if they played any other sort of RPG?
Maybe the prison would prefer it if they played Shadowrun? Violent, gun-toting hoodlums breaking in and out of places sounds like just the thing to play when you're in prison.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Insightful)
As the article noted, lots of games might come under their "mimics gang structure" argument:
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Not to be too elitist, but would it be a bad thing if they did ban other games like football? I mean, I don't mean to be harsh here, but these people are in prison. I'd like a fair, equitable, just applications of principles here. But at the same time, anything more than educational reading and meditation in a prison seems like it's a reward not a right.
Perhaps someone here with more experience in this sort of thing can comment on how rights like these apply when you're in jail.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Interesting)
I think this comes under socialising and if you don't let people people socialise to a minimum extent it can screw up their minds.
In other words if you lock someone up in a room with nothing but a pile of food,books and some weights equipment for a few years they probably come out more than somewhat messed up in the head.
It occurs to me that it's like someone found that making their child go sit in the corner alone for 10 minutes when they were somewhat bad was a decent punishment and then tried to just sort of scale up the time and how far away the corner was for more serious offences and didn't consider that some things don't scale well...
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:5, Funny)
If you replace the word "weights" with "computer" you have a good definition of the stereotypical slashdoter.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes but if you go too far in that direction then you put a kid in for shoplifting and get a psychopath back.
Which is likely to cause more crime.
Making it scary sounds good but once you get to the point where you're maiming the minds of the people exposed to it you start to be self defeating.
We could forget rehabilitation and just punish all crimes with severe public torture with whips, flails, acids, electrodes hooks and knives which I'm sure would be very scary but I doubt it would do much to keep people s
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sorry to break it to you, but no. Nobody breaking the law thinks of the consequences.
Take bank robberies. About 90% of the culprits are caught within the first 48 hours. Another 9% within two weeks. This is basically common knowledge, at least around here. Yet still people go and rob banks. Few of them with any sensible preparations. It's a spur of the moment thing, often and usually based on desperation. You can see that in the statistics because the cases get more and more just before Christmas and usually the annual peak is in the week before.
Do you think anyone of them thought about the 10 years of prison waiting for him?
The repetition rate is stunningly low, that's true. Mostly because in prison they learn it's much easier (and possibly even more profitable) to rob gas stations and 7/11s.
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Those people are ignoring several facts, notably that negative reinforcement loses power when the object is out of sight, and that people in prison will eventually get out in all but the most severe of cases.
The pure deterrent model doesn't work. In fact, once sentences become uniformly harsh, it actually serves to increase criminal activity. Once you're locked up for twenty years whether you've stolen a loaf of bread or a car, you can logically rationalize stealing big, since the punishment is the same.
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Who the fuck isn't scared of going to prison?
People who've been there before.
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So, torture, followed by brainwashing. Repeat after me - "Cruel and unusual punishment is outlawed by the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution, Amendment 8."
Or, with more accuracy and less hyperbole, stress followed by re-socialization. The GP is talking about a few months of high-stress conditions. The conditions need to be low-stress enough so that the convict can handle it for a few months, but finds it really unpleasant.
The issue you need to consider is, when does increasing unpleasantness cross the
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Insightful)
"..anything more than educational reading and meditation in a prison seems like it's a reward not a right."
Right on! I want people coming out of prison extremely bitter and angry that the last few to several to many months to years of their lives were joyless and unrewarding. I want them walking around free society having no fresh recollection of what it meant to feel happy or satisfied. I want them to be suddenly forced to interact with functioning members of society immediately after they have been denied any forms of entertainment or amusement in an otherwise hellish living situation.
How could there possibly be a downside to this?
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think prison is bad enough; and if you make it really terrible, then you get screwed up people coming out the other end.
Also, it may be that you actually get a lot of enjoyment and refreshment out of "educational reading", and don't particularly enjoy football. But not everyone is of that bent: Imagine being sent to a prison where you *weren't* allowed educational reading, but *only* playing football. A little bit of "release" can change an unpleasant situation from unbearable to bearable.
Disclaimer: I'm certainly no expert, but I have visited a prison at least once. :-)
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You've got it mixed up. Prisons in the US are for rehabilitation, not punishment. The sad fact is that they aren't very good at the former, probably due to being run by private companies that don't give a shit & are paid by headcount.
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Everybody knows that the "Dungeons and Dragons. Satan's game!" shtick is pure comedy; but it is based on a real undercurrent of hysteria.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Interesting)
I did a couple year stint for a drug crime and we played D&D all the time. We made different sided dice out of paper and cardboard. The guards only issue was when we made maps. They would often take our maps and make sure they weren't of the facility I was in. The dice were another issue as they were officially contraband, and when some guards were on duty we couldn't play.
D&D was an awesome time waster and great fantasy get away.
Re:Is it just D&D ? (Score:4, Informative)
If you can't use dice, you can make pages of the numbers 1-n repeated in a matrix and have the roller close his eyes and point to a number with a pencil. Change sheets regularly so they can't memorize locations. Just as random and no problems due to lack of dice (which I assume were contraband to avoid craps playing?)
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It's not just D & D; they banned all fantasy roleplaying.
Now that I've read the decision, I'm a little more annoyed.
The prison officials provided evidence in the form of testimony, from one of the prison officials who claims to be a gang expert. The court appeared to find his testimony regarding gang structure unchallanged, so let that stand.
They found that regulating gangs was reasonable, that Singer could play other games instead, that if it does lead to gang activity, that will put a strain on priso
Big Brother (Score:4, Funny)
Soon, the game Paranoia will be outlawed.
Re:Big Brother (Score:5, Funny)
That could give ideas to inmates.
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Don't forget to ban "Snakes and Ladders" as well.
It isn't why you think... (Score:3, Funny)
Work Programs (Score:5, Interesting)
In other news ... (Score:5, Funny)
Uh-huh (Score:2)
There might be evidence that some inmates go on to commit crimes that are related to their spell in prison. So ban prison.
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Here's a better idea... ban crimes!
Nip the problem in the bud.
What A Flawed Premise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly, no-one involved in the case has ever played a decent game of D&D. But why bother with facts when prejudice and hysteria will suffice ?
For the 0.0001% of Slashdotters who've never played, a good "dungeon master" (just like a good computer game programmer) creates an interactive environment for players to explore.
What the players decide to do from there is what can make the game an interesting vehicle for self-discovery and excercising one's imagination and problem-solving abilities.
It no more mimics the structure of a gang than someone attending a lecture or watching a play.
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'one player is denoted the Dungeon Master... [who] is tasked with giving directions to other players... [which] mimics the organization of a gang.'
Of course, the prison may just have banned D&D because it was causing trouble, much as a school might ban trading cards because they were causing fights and aruments, and the above nonsense could just be some post-hoc rationalization that their lawyers came up with to defend against the frivolous lawsuit.
I mean, ye gods, if the most heinous offense against human dignity in this place is that you're not allowed to play D&D, then US prisons have been receiving some very unfair press...
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If the prison had actually just said, "we banned D&D because it was causing trouble", the whole thing would've seemed a lot more reasonable to me, and probably not really worth commenting on. I'm not quite sure why they didn't just say that, actually, unless it really wasn't causing problems, so they couldn't anyone to testify that D&D-playing prisoners were causing problems--- so they had to resort to the more hypothetical rationale, bolstered by testimony from a "gang expert", that D&D might p
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Dear Madam,
On behalf of the People's Correctional Facility of North Korea, we are most sorry to report your son, while playing a banned D&D game, failed his dexterity roll against a spellcast as well as a critical hit save, the monster involved was level 20, and the spell involved resulted in a permanent Invisibility curse. We lack the ability to detect your son, however we do
My Crime (Score:5, Funny)
"The prison also cited some sparse evidence that a handful of non-inmate D&D players once committed some crimes that allegedly were related to their D&D playing."
My only crime was to CAST FIREBALL at LEVEL 6 and do 6D6 damage to everyone in a huge sphere in front of me...except the ones who made their saving throws.
I wouldn't even be here except I rolled a 4 on my SAVING THROW VS. JUDGES
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I wouldn't even be here except I rolled a 4 on my SAVING THROW VS. JUDGES
are you a dwarf ? maybe you should add [CON/3.5] to that.
Freedom of speech (Score:5, Funny)
Beyond prison reach
Societal deportment
So hard to teach
Burma shave
Oblig.: Guns don't kill people, ... (Score:5, Funny)
... magic missiles do.
This is jive, man. (Score:5, Funny)
Competition (Score:2)
solution (Score:2)
They should ask a prison guard to be the Dungeon Master :)
You know what else mimicks gang structure?? (Score:3, Interesting)
HUMANITY!
This is pure hunter/gatherer humanity: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/12/hadza/finkel-text [nationalgeographic.com]
Tell me that does not prove that the natural structure of human society is that of gangs!?
Man, stupid, stupid, STUPID.
The Benefits of D&D for a prisoner (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a DM someone who sets the rules of the game and make sure everyone plays with in the imaginary boundaries. The DM is an authority figure and the players must acquesce to his/her rules. This is basically a model for prison life and some would say life as a "good citizen".
If the rules are in dispute you negotiate and resolve the issue before moving on. Negotation is definitely something you want to teach to violent offenders since they may not have had any 1st hand experience with it.
Basic mathematics and reading. Playing a game and being good at it requires one to learn the rules of the game. You want to find that numbers advantage? the DM isn't going to hand it to you on a silver platter. Many small gamers learn to read so they can figure out what to do next or what the screen is telling them and the same can apply in a prison setting with low literacy rates and math skills.
Abstract problem solving skills. Ok this makes the criminal more dangerous but it could be a skill set that could be used for good and finding a respectable job. (yes I know about job aps and disclosure of arrests/prison time)
As some one said before socializing with others as well as team work to accomplish goals together.
Heh (Score:4, Insightful)
My bet.... (Score:3)
$10 says that when you boil this down there is a silly bible-thumper at the root of this.
Having worked in a prison (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, if you have been an AD&D player (or a player of any number of other RPG games), think about the dynamics of game play. Games often include more than two or three people. Players often carry a stack of papers (e.g., maps, character sheets, game manuals) to and from game sessions. The group might get loud, but some members of the group might have a secret side conversation with another player or the DM. Notes might need to be passed (e.g., "I want to pickpocket the baron", "I want to move into the shadows behind the paladin"). Table conversation will include various weapons and tactics. Althought talk of some medieval weapons could easily be discerned as fantasy (e.g., "I'll run him through with my halberd"), others could easily match a contemporary context (e.g., "I'll knife the guard while you try to get his keys"). Most groups with which I've played held the DM in high regard; it was as if the DM had his own cult following or at least a lot of resepect. That behavior, to the untrained observer, would appear to mimic some gang behavior. Prison guards have no way of knowing if such a behavior is just a game, overt gang activity, or a game being used to hide gang activity. To strive for safety and control, they must err toward interpreting events as the worst possible scenario.
If you are an RPG player, think through things that were said around your game table, and try to imagine hearing them as a prison guard or corrections officer. How might you interpret them?
People who really got into their game playing often would talk about the game anywhere and everywhere. Can you imagine a guard in a lunchroom overhearing AD&D players discussing a plan to escape the tower by feigning illness before attacking the guards when they come to investigate? Can you imagine players discussing plans to dig an (in-game) escape tunnel while having recreation time in the yard? The game could easily be used as a veil to allow the player to communicate real escape plans out in the open while the rest of the facility thinks they are just a bunch of RPG geeks. I can't say I fully agree with the decision to bar AD&D, but I can say that I understand the reasoning behind the decision.
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Thanks for your perspective.
What sort of alternative collaborative storytelling game would you propose for a prison setting?
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Re:Playing games in prison (Score:4, Funny)
They could be learning to post on /. - the pinnacle of civilized interaction with other people.
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They should think of their career!
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Why are inmates playing games anyway? They have lots of time - shouldn't they spend that time learning pottery/cooking/raising kids/social skills/programming so that they are fun people by the time they get out of jail?
That's the ideal - at least in the UK. The reality is overcharging consultants providing mediocre services to a system that is fundamentally unable to cope. Strangely - it is only the offenders who seem to care anymore...
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I don't know. They're still not free, you know. And you don't want to send inmates into a deep depression either. Yes, learning useful skills sounds like a good way to pass the time there, but there's a lot of time in prison, and they need to relax every once in a while too. Besides, RPGs can also teach useful skills.
Re:Should they be playing games in prison, anyway? (Score:5, Informative)
Most prisons have some leisure time alloted, which wasn't really at issue here--- the warden had no problem with there being leisure time, he just didn't want D&D played during that leisure time. The prison appears fine with inmates watching TV or reading books or playing chess or whatever during that time.
Mostly what caught my eye is the absurdity of "D&D has a dungeonmaster who gives orders, which is like a gang" rationale. There might be some good reason prisoners should have less leisure in general, or should be prohibited from playing D&D in particular, but that particular reason is pretty absurd.
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They are now all playing Mafia Wars.
Why are so many people playing that game? Is it modern day D&D?
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That rationale would ban fiction novels, too, though (well, except maybe gritty realist fiction), which prisons don't generally do.
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Being in prison is not just about removing a dangerous element from society, it is about taking someone's freedom as a punishment.
Actually prison as "punishment" is now a violation of human rights. Prisons are supposed to be entirely for the purposes of "rehabilitation".
Of course the people who wrote the human rights have no understanding that most of the people in prison have serious anti social personality disorders, probably can't be "rehabilitated", and probab
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little side tangent, if you suffer from some mental disorder which makes you dangerous to others is it's societies duty to punish you for being sick or to try to cure you?
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I doubt that is the case. Unless you believe that a very large percentage of Americans have personality disorders and don't qualify as humans.
You present a non sequitur. First of all, that's not what I said. Only around 3% of the general population have anti social personality disorder. Secondly I made no comparison to other countries. However Up to 80% [jobaccess.gov.au] of prison populations have this disorder (the cited article says 75%, in med school I learned 80%). This is logical since the people w
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You may have thought that you'd escaped for a few hours, but you didn't escape at all, and that taste of imagined freedom turns to ash.
Th cruelest prisons always have a window to the open sky...
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Wrong. Beeing in prison is about BOTH of it. And in addition, it's also about receiving training on how to fit into a mainly non-criminal society.
You know... some three pillars -stuff..... the thing you would present with three overlapping circles in a powerpoint-slideshow.
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I don't really know what you're saying here, I don't see any readers implying (other than in jest) that fantasy games have anything to do with criminality. The implication is very strongly that a spurious link to criminality was used to justify a ban on something the prison authorities just don't like.
As to your claim that the only options are either fantasy games allow criminality or have no effect on criminality, I'd repudiate that absolute claim unless you can provide evidence that playing games which en
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I openly admit to not reading ALL comments prior to posting this, but.... I think the top level posters so far are missing the real issue here. These people are in Jail for a reason. Let's not treat them to things they do not deserve.
Jail should be a place to serve a sentance and to hopefully let the the criminals reflect on their crime and hopefully learn a lesson. It SHOULDN'T be a place where criminals get to hang out and play board games. That's just ridiculous. Yes, D&D and any other aformentioned board games are harmless, but enabling someone to have fun in a place of punishment is just downright absurd. I know people who have been to jail, and while they say it was absolutely no fun at all, their behavior after their sentance really didn't change.
The system is broken. We can't let people forget the reason they're being punished...
If they are not treated to any entertainment at all, they will become depressed and kill themselves. Clearly, this is not the intention of jail either, is it? I understand that you have some sort of sadistic need to see these people suffer, but there are limits to how you can treat people (yes, inmates are people too), both stemming from psychology and international law.
Re:Absurd (Score:5, Insightful)
How does that help? The only thing you'd ensure would be that those who do make it out have a justified hatred towards society and will definitely commit more and worse crimes. And, of course, everyone who does commit a crime would have a strong incentive to kill all witnesses as prison would be designed to crush the inmates' soul and capital punishment wouldn't offer much of an additional threat.
And all of these observations are besides the fact that the very statement that inmates don't deserve to be called human is a sign of complete moral bankruptcy and nothing short of appalling.
Re:Absurd (Score:5, Insightful)
Prison is also supposed to rehabilitate.
And even if you think this is nonsense: Prison should under no circumstances produce better criminals.