Google Attackers Identified as Chinese Government 651
forand writes Researchers, examining the attacks on Google and over 20 other companies in December, have determined 'the source IPs and drop server of the attack correspond to a single foreign entity consisting either of agents of the Chinese state or proxies thereof.'"
World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
Coming to a planet near you.
No, Seriously... (Score:5, Interesting)
If a foreign government had attacked non-digital assets of any US corporation, you would expect some kind of formal reprisal. Maybe not an airdrop of Marines, but certainly something more than Hilary Clinton threatening to write a stern letter.
What I have not doped out yet to my own satisfaction is whether the tepid response from Washington is the fault of the current administration, confusion regarding the digital nature of the breach and assets, or a little of both.
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/u_s_condemned_for_pre_emptive_use [theonion.com]
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't the use of Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi against the Geneva convention? We could get in a lot of trouble.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Especially after she proved herself so cool under sniper fire in bosnia. Look how quick she was with that sidearm!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHVEDq6RVXc [youtube.com]
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)
If a foreign government had attacked non-digital assets of any US corporation, you would expect some kind of formal reprisal. Maybe not an airdrop of Marines, but certainly something more than Hilary Clinton threatening to write a stern letter.
What I have not doped out yet to my own satisfaction is whether the tepid response from Washington is the fault of the current administration, confusion regarding the digital nature of the breach and assets, or a little of both.
I think it has something to do with Chinese savings now being the foundation of much of the western economy, and the fact that China is a major nuclear power.
What China realised and the USSR didn't, IMO, is that they could forget the cold war and essentially buy the west with the west's own money.
/crazy theory
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with this theory of winning the new cold war simply by buying the opponent is that it doesn't, and can't, lead to any kind of victory. By investing in US debt China has bound themselves in an unholy blood pact to the U.S. economy. We on some level need them to continue pouring money into the economy to pay for poorly thought out foreign policy, they on the other hand need us to continue to prosper or all of their investments become worthless. If one side wins both sides win, if one sides loose both sides loose. The Chinese have already shown their realization of this in their effort to keep interest rates low to prevent inflation from devaluing their assets.
Was that a long winded post for "The US is facilitating a Ponzi scheme, with China being the the bottom rung contributors."?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure I agree with several of your premises. They're the popular views, but I'm not sure if they're actually true.
The first supposition is that China owns a large portion of our debt - this one I can factually dispute based on numbers from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt [wikipedia.org]
Foreign and international own approximately 28% of our debt, and China owns 24% of the international debt. This means China only holds about 7% of our total debt.
Second, and this is just my own supposition, I
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Informative)
Sure in the future they might try to call the debt
This seems to be a common misunderstanding. Holders of treasury bonds cannot "call the debt."
When China buys US debt, they buy treasury bonds (or one of the half-dozen other names the same basic instrument sells under). A treasury bond is a promise to pay a stated sum of money on a given date.
So, today I might buy a $100 treasury bond with a maturity of 2040. In 2040 I can turn in that bond for $100 in US dollars (cash or whatever) from the US government. In 2039 it can't be turned in for a dime. Now, in 2039 you could almost certainly sell it to somebody else for very close to $100. The way China makes money is that the $100 bond might have only cost them $20-30 or whatever to buy today. Bonds may also pay interest as well.
The only thing China can do is stop buying new bonds and cash in their existing ones as they mature. The US never promised to give them money before the maturity date, so they are under no obligation to do so.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
What do they loose? The dogs?
Personally, I'm more worried about one side or the other losing.
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And of all of the debt they own it is only 23% of the total foreign debt, and IIRC foreign dept is just under half of the total US dept.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, foreign debt is about 25% - so that makes the Chinese total portion about 5%...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In circulation, maybe.
But, they hold the vast majority of the U.S. federal debt obligations. The federal government is reliant on China to finance it's operations because of the massive deficit in the budget. If China were to stop buying the federal debt instruments, interest rates in the U.S. would soar and the value of the dollar would drop.
If China dumped all the U.S. federal debt instruments it owns on to the open market, it would take a hit in the wallet, but the United States would experience hyperinf
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Funny)
it will take thousands to millions of dollars to buy a cup of coffee.
I see you frequent Starbucks too.
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Informative)
Secondly, china selling it's bonds would not lead to hyper-inflation. The only thing that causes that is a rapid increase in the supply of currency. So for that to happen, the treasury would need to make more capital available (such as we saw during the insane bail-outs that have been happening). But, as is now known from the bailouts, even dumping 2 trillion on the market will not cause significant inflation (and China has less than 800 billion).
What's the difference between Zimbabwe and the US? The problem in Zimbabwe is that the government was trying to overcome an actual shortage in resources by printing currency. Since printing currency in no way counteracted their actual food shortages prices rose endlessly as they printed more money. But, since there are no shortages in actual supply in the US, things didn't happen that way here. Banks were showing huge paper losses, so the government bailed them out to meet investor expectations. Basically, the shortage was only really numbers on paper, and raising those numbers counteracted the shortage.
Don't get me wrong, there are real problems in the US. But those are problems of expectations, not supply. People expect to be able to retire, but we soon won't have the workforce to let them. So either the government will force younger generations to work harder for less benefit (there are various ways of doing this) or they will let wall-street shrink retirement accounts and scale back social security. Right now it looks like they prefer the former, but I'd say the latter is the safer option. The real danger is that when the government takes these steps (and they will have to) it may cause social unrest.
Re: (Score:3)
This is a circular argument. Supply of basic consumer goods in the US is at this point nearly entirely based upon imports (a bulk of it from China, incidentally). So a collapse in the US currency's purchasing power would also lead to collapse of supply of goods and thus their shortage.
The world's economy is at these days pretty much a gigantic Ponzi scheme whereby "value" of currencies and goods is in its enti
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a circular argument. Supply of basic consumer goods in the US is at this point nearly entirely based upon imports
Yes and no. The US produces quite a few basic consumer goods - food in particular. A plastic toy supply shortage will not cripple the US. Granted, the US does depend on imports for a number of fairly critical practical things. But...
The world's economy is at these days pretty much a gigantic Ponzi scheme whereby "value" of currencies and goods is in its entirety based on make-believ
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hyperinflation, though likely in my opinion, is still not inevitable, nor can any foreign power unilaterally cause it; it is caused by massive and accelerating expansion of the money supply, which is completely within the control of the Federal Reserve and hence the federal government. The reason we will likely get it is that it is the politically easier of the only two options available for addressing the massive debt, including off-book future liabilities, of the U.S. government.
The other option would be for the central government to accept that in order to survive, it must accept an eventual return to rule of law and to Constitutional principles. It must accept a much smaller role in the economy. It must accept that the only way for its share of the pie to grow bigger is to let the pie itself grow, which requires, at least in the short term, getting its hands out of that pie, and allowing the economy to grow bereft of any regulations at the federal level save, at most, those that are necessary to protect basic human rights. It must forever give up its present role of purposely enriching some at the expense of all others. It must forever give up its alleged "right" to manipulate the economy through the Federal Reserve. None of this seems likely to happen on its own, but, like all institutions, governments value their own survival above all else, and as the economy collapses and the prospect of widespread revolt and even civil war looms large, it will adapt (or it will die, and the states will take over).
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Interesting)
he reason we will likely get it is that it is the politically easier of the only two options available for addressing the massive debt, including off-book future liabilities, of the U.S. government.
Oh, for mod points. This person gets it. Historically, one of the major drivers for government laxity towards inflation (Argentina, Mexico, Pre WWII germany, etc) is that the government owes more in nominal terms than it can fund through taxes. Allow a few years of 10% inflation, and that burden is eased significantly, as tax revenues rise with inflation, while the size of the debt remains the same. We will see 6-10% inflation for 3 to 8 years sometime in the next 15 years, because that is the ONLY way the US government can get out of the financial hole we are in. This will in turn hurt the Chinese, who are holding vast amounts of dollar demoninated debt.
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)
What did Google and the rest of them expect, they got in to bed with a country that has little to no regard for the privacy of its own citizens, did Google honestly think they would be treated any different? I surely don't feel sorry for them. Google compromised so much in order to "compete in the world economy", and now they are shocked that they got bit?
The Scorpion and the Turtle.
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought it was a scorpion and a frog (how does a scorpion sting a turtle in the back?)
Re:No, Seriously... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
It's time, my friends:
10 years ago, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as hackers of fortune. If you have a problem with crackers, if no one else can help track them down, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The G-Team.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
"I love it when a LAN comes together."
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
Like 9/11, this was actually organized by the US Government to foster dislike of China to facilitate favorable actions by the US military,
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks, I hate waiting.
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:4, Funny)
Thanks, I hate waiting.
unlike osama bin laden, saddam hussein, al-qaida and others, we can be pretty confident that the USA CIA has not trained and sponsored the Chinese government.
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Insightful)
We can credit the corporations, the banks, and bonehead economists for this one.
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry, no. In response to the changing technological and political landscape all international conflicts must now be run through battle.net.
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
ah, but what about a LAN war? Thats good to go right?
You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a LAN war in Asia"!
- Stealth Dave
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
World War WAN? That might be confusing
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
The Cybermilitary, get it right. We're facing an ipv4 shortage, haven't you read peak ipv4?? We must reclaim all of the ipv4 resources that China has been hoarding these years!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean everything will start pointing towards the Great IP of China?
Great....
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The Cybermilitary, get it right. We're facing an ipv4 shortage, haven't you read peak ipv4?? We must reclaim all of the ipv4 resources that China has been hoarding these years!
We've got to close the IP address gap! We can't let those commie bastards take all the IP addresses!
We'll build bunkers in the mountains FULL of ISP's all requesting tens of thousands of IP addresses!
-Taylor
Re:World War III - The Cyber War (Score:5, Funny)
Of course it is. Don't you find it just a LITTLE bit odd that if you convert "don't be evil" to Hexidecimal, move some of the numbers and letters around, and do a few arithmatic operations on some of the numbers, you can get the Hex for "osama bin laden"! Seriously sheeple, wake up!
It all started years ago with King Henry the 8th and his second wife Anne Bolyn. They had a plan for a new world order under the Church of England (Anglican) but too few of the populace wanted to convert away from Catholicism. Later they started turning Lutheran which kind of pissed him off. So he went back in time and told his ancestors (Like King Richard the Lionheart) to go and Crusade Jerusalem which was and still is one of the worlds religious centers. Using the power of Religion he was able to pull the hood over everyones eyes and secretly worship the Pagan Gods, because that is somehow important, but I'm not sure how, I heard it on Zeitgeist. And then while banging his 5th or 6th wife (evidence isn't sure which) King Henry drafted up a plan to assassinate whatever political leader of the new world had the most power, a hundred years or so later. Using his time machine he was able to get to America and pick off JFK from the Grassy Knoll.
He has now gone into hiding, using nefarious agents to do his bidding. Rumour has it that it was HE who convinced Ronald Reagan to go into acting, thus ruining the lives of many people across the globe. This severe depression mutated into a heireditory trait, which started the spawn of Emo kids. This is also part of Henry's plan, as he is training the youth of tomorrow to where lots of black clothing and makeup - both male and female, making them more difficult to see as assassins. Secret schematics have discovered that tight pants have been introduced to help reduce the noise created while moving stealthily.
Up until recently, everything was going according to plan. Little did King Henry expect that computer technology would be such a huge influence on the world of tomorrow. With the free flow of information it was highly likely that someone would stumble across his plans. He sent his emo-assassins after Steve Ballmer, who failed. With this failure he visitted Ballmer at a conference, who was shocked and dismayed. Ballmer was so shaken up that the only word he could say was "Developers". Ballmer rushed on stage to warn everyone about this nefarious plan, but couldn't deliver the message. He was brainwashed shortly after.
With Microsoft under control King Henry then targetted Google. Employing a new strategy he tried corrupting them by posting links to a Michelle Obama Monkey picture on his blog, forcing them to censor images. When Google went into China, Henry didn't like the idea of Google becoming more powerful then his pawn Microsoft. As such, he hired hackers to infiltrate the Chinese government and then attempt to Hack Google, thus removing any suspicion of an American company attacking Google, as well as forcing Google out of China.
And here we are in the present day, STILL with the hood pulled over our eyes, because all of the media outlets are controlled by the worlds greatest ruler, King Henry the 8th.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
King Henry drafted up a plan to assassinate whatever political leader of the new world had the most power, a hundred years or so later.
Henry VIII planned to assassinate Louis XIV?! The plot thickens!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I blame the Juice, and I predict he'll get away with it again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson [wikipedia.org]
But... (Score:4, Insightful)
It couldn't be them. China would never do anything wrong.
That... or they'll just blame it on their status as a "developing nation" and that they shouldn't be held to the same standards as everyone else.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
(Yes, I do know that when South Park did this joke, they were really Japanese)
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:But... (Score:4, Insightful)
They traced it to Chinese government IPs. Unless China comes out and says they were hacked, and are working with Google to find the nature of the attack, that's pretty ironclad.
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
There's botnets running on government computers in most countries, China is probably not an exception. I'm not saying they didn't do it, just that IPs are not complete proof.
Nor does it have to be. China's government is screwed either way. If they claim they are not the attackers, but were working from owned machines, then their "perfection" and "infallibility" are gone. Given the inherent insecurity in authoritarian cocknozzles, that will hurt them where they live.
OTOH, if they don't cop to being hacked themselves, they have no other defense to being the source of the attacks.
Either way, they've gotten taken down a notch (and I bet you they are PISSED about it), and I'm betting that our own cocknozzles in DC are hoping they opt for the second approach. Nothing heavy will come from it, but we'll get a few more of their chips in the big game.
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
It couldn't be them. China would never do anything wrong.
That... or they'll just blame it on their status as a "developing nation" and that they shouldn't be held to the same standards as everyone else.
The original official notification of this from Google's Chief Legal Officer [blogspot.com] where he mentioned human rights advocates and human rights issues causes this to seem above the average security breach:
Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.
I can understand how "We can't enforce copyright on software and music when we're busy lifting hundreds of millions of citizens out of poverty as a developing nation" works but I can't understand how "We need to arrest and persecute human rights activists because we're a developing nation" works.
Re: (Score:3)
Works great if you're a stand up comedian.
Re:But... (Score:5, Informative)
Hacking Google does not help China develop its industries.
Yes it does. At least according to the Wall Street Journal, the compromise goes far beyond a Gmail compromise of a few accounts belong to some human rights activists. Google is claiming that they've suffered an intellectual property loss due to a server compromise. Any time that China steals research from someone else, they've improved their industry without having to invest in the R&D. Beyond Google, the official count is up to 34 companies far that have suffered severe breaches.
We are in an era where China is being more and more restrictive on foreign companies. China was open when it was beneficial to them. They were open when it brought foreign expertise into their country. They welcomed foreign companies with open arms because they stood to benefit from the knowledge those companies have. Now that the Chinese have the knowledge, they are becoming more nationalistic (as if that were possible). They are heavily favoring national companies. A recently passed government procurement process contained a provision that government agencies must find local suppliers for IT systems and software. The Chinese have stolen enough technical know how from HP and Dell and IBM and Cisco and the rest that they can produce hardware that is good enough for their needs. China is now the largest automobile market on the planet, and they're building cars based on designs and with processes stolen from American and Japanese manufacturing firms. I read a story last year where Ford or GM was suing a Chinese company for selling a car that was more or less based entirely on a design and manufacturing process that was stolen whole sale from (Ford/GM).
The Chinese are smart. Our year 2010 is the Chinese year 4707. They have an ANCIENT culture. All of the games that people play have been played, observed and pondered in China for A LONG TIME. For the past couple of decades they have been benefiting from American processes and technologies. Americans have benefited from a Chinese willingness to use our processes to provide us with affordable goods. At the same time, they have developed the knowledge to create goods for their own growing "middle class". One of their goals is to increase domestic consumption. As the years continue to go by, more and more of the world's resources are going to be going to China, for the good of the Chinese. There is a reason that the Chinese are playing such an active role in Africa.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is what I love about Slashdot. The collective intelligence here is superb. Despite the frequent complaints about /. being behind the times when it comes to news, I find that topics are discussed here often months before traditional media sources pick them up. Reading the Wall Street Journal these last two days has been like a rehash of months old conversations, so much so that I was looking for the "dupe" tag to scrawl across the story in the paper.
To quote Iago . . . (Score:3, Funny)
Oh there's a big surprise! That's an incredible - I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die of not surprise!
Finally above ground (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, if all the corporations become as scrupulous as Google is suddenly seeming, it might end up giving Fascism a good name.
Our response is? (Score:4, Interesting)
1. a body of corporations (those 20 or so affected)
2. a nation
3. a global community of nations (UN)
4. a cybercommunity
What can we do, and what is most likely to happen?
Re:Our response is? (Score:5, Insightful)
1. a body of corporations (those 20 or so affected)
Nothing of note. If they pull out publicly, they will continue to work with the Chinese through third parties. Shareholders don't give a damn about human rights or free speech. They just want their money.
2. a nation
They've already sold us poisoned toys and drywall. They've been using what amounts to slave labor for decades in order to provide cheap products. As long as the aforementioned shareholders are running things, you're not going to hear about the problems, and the American populace is too apathetic to sacrifice any amount of convenience.
3. a global community of nations (UN)
They'll pass some resolutions denouncing interference in the sovereign affairs of other countries. They'll slide in some language about Palestine or Iraq, and it will be vetoed by the US and Israel and maybe a pacific atoll that happens to have a bathroom.
4. a cybercommunity
Learn Chinese and troll MSN Spaces?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Corporations will leave China, and forgo any possible profit there, or they won't. Up to them. Google seems to have made their choice.
2. The nation has some soul-searching to do. I expect that the US government will do exactly nothing for a long time, while pleading that other crises are taking up all their attention. (Which, actually is a pretty good excuse right now.)
3. The UN will do nothing. Cyberwarfare is not something the UN is chartered to police, and not something they care about, and ev
SHOCKING (Score:5, Interesting)
Who didn't see that one coming from a mile away? I called it the moment I read that there was a sophisticated attack on Google.
Whether its all fabricated or not, I like the idea of Google pulling out of China. Google is one of the leading innovators in the western world - and by keeping their services out of China it sends a message to the government: Stop Oppression.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think your observation is apropos but could be strengthened a bit. Let's take it as writ that China's government is stealing. No doubt they have been stealing from Google as well. So in a world where information and its flow is your breadbasket, stealing information is like poking holes in the pipes leading to Google (1) losing control of information they are monetizing, (2) losing control over their own IP which is all that keeps them a step above their competitors (such as Baidu and a Chinese governmen
Write Google (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Write Google (Score:4, Insightful)
It's easy to say that all corporations are faceless entities, but the truth is they are run by people, in this case, a major person running the company is Sergey Brin. He grew up part of his life in the communist USSR, so he has first-hand experience with oppressive governments. It seems he's thought seriously about whether he should do business in China, and you may not agree with their decision, but it doesn't matter what they do, not everyone will agree with it.
In this case the result has seemed quite good, people in China are taking notice. As soon as the announcement came out, people starting putting flowers on Google's Chinese corporate office [wsj.com]. One of the cards pictured:
The card below was signed in English and Chinese by a group of self described Twitter and Google fans. An English note said "Thank you for holding values over profits!" Another note, in Chinese, reads, "Google, the mountains can't stop our contacts, and we'll get over the wall [a reference to the "Great Firewall"] to find you!"
It seems some people in China are mocking Google for having 'lost,' so this sentiment doesn't cover everyone, but it has surely had a surprising effect.
Consequences? (Score:4, Insightful)
Been complaining about this for years (Score:5, Informative)
Working for a Defense contractor, one of our systems was compromised. Fortunately, the idiot who gained access screwed up SSH which alerted us to what was going on, and prevented them from erasing their tracks. All SSH connections were from computers in China. They've been doing this for years, and no one has really called them on it until now. It takes Google to make a big enough splash before anyone really pays attention to it.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Unleash the hounds (Score:5, Interesting)
The Wall Street Journal had a great article about some of the details behind the scenes of this particular incident, and also another article that did a good job of summarizing what has been discussed here over the last couple of years. The main stream media is openly stating that the People's Liberation Army is actively encouraging "citizen cyber militias" to conduct "cyber attacks" (good Lord how I hate that term) against foreign (read, United States) corporations. Although they haven't gone so far as to state that those militias have active backing of the government, they have said that the government is turning a blind eye to their activities. Furthermore, the WSJ goes on to state that there are United States agencies involved in similar espionage activities.
Given that background, it seems like hacking Chinese companies should be fair game for up and coming "security researchers" here in the United States. In the 1990s the United States government made it quite clear that they were going to come down hard on people who mess with government and Fortune 500 systems. Given the option between really securing the systems and punishing those who exploit the lack of security, they went with the latter. A lot of people, myself included, decided that once we turned 18 and faced the threat of real Federal prosecution, the wise move was to turn off the war dialers, stop snarfing ESN/MIN pairs out of the air, and stop trying to run exploit code against computers that we don't control.
We can't hone our craft in the United States anymore. Although there is a whole market for securing IT resources against attack, there isn't a playground to pick up skills in. My suggestion is that China is that playground. My suggestion is that Chinese corporations in the United States are the targets. I mean lets face it, there are hundreds of thousands of compromised computers in the United States. The United States government can't be held accountable for malicious activity directed toward Chinese corporations. It would be unfortunate for those entities to be DDoS'd. It would be unfortunate for their internal workstations to be the target of vulnerability research.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Who said anything about being malicious? I'm simply suggesting that there are a few subnet ranges that might contain systems upon which one might explore and experiment.
WTF are you talking about... suicide attacks? How did we go from digital commerce to fanatical extremism that results in the loss of life?
Where is the report? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't find the link to the actual report in TFA.
I don't doubt that there's a strong suggestion that the Chinese government was somehow involved in the intrusion attempts mentioned by Google, and generally it isn't Google's habit to lie or deceive in these high profile matters.
But two days after the Google announcement a report comes out saying "yes it's the Chinese government, yes it's them!"? Without obvious links to the actual report?
I just sense it's just the "security companies" trying to ride the PR bandwagon. I mean, it's just on everybody's mind, and "somebody had to say it out aloud". So you cobble together related bits and pieces and make a grand pronouncement, making everybody happy. But does it prove anything? Not until we find the evidence. Until then it's all just hearsay.
Besides, would you really base your conclusions on findings from "VeriSign's iDefense security lab"? From the company who tried to f*ck up NXDOMAIN?
This is not the end of the story. I suspect more juicy bits will come through.
Why would China do this? (Score:4, Interesting)
The premise is that China hacked Google to access the accounts of these Chinese Human rights activists. Given that Google already complies with Chinese law, why did China not openly contact Google over this?
Re:Why would China do this? (Score:4, Informative)
The premise is that China hacked Google to access the accounts of these Chinese Human rights activists. Given that Google already complies with Chinese law, why did China not openly contact Google over this?
Because the attack's targets go beyond the authority of their laws: a coordinated effort to target specific human rights advocates not just in China but around the world [arstechnica.com] .
It says they located the Command and Control box. (Score:4, Funny)
In the article it says they located the Command and Control box. I did a little investigation of my own and see what they mean. It's oh so obvious this was perpetrated by the Chinese government. Just look at the facts!
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Created On:05-Oct-1997 04:00:00 UTC
Last Updated On:11-Dec-2009 20:14:46 UTC
Expiration Date:04-Oct-2010 04:00:00 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:Bob@PRC.gov
Registrant Name:Host Master
Registrant Organization:People's Republic of China, duh!
Registrant Street1:Main Street
Registrant Street2:HQ for Cyber Warface against Capitalistic West
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Bejing
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code:
Registrant Country:CN
Registrant Phone:+1-800-Yur-Pwnd
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:Bob@PRC.gov
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I dunno, give them some credit, Hillary Clinton might talk at them again. I'm sure they'll care deeply about that.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:can't say i'm surprised (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:can't say i'm surprised (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, the "Christmas Bomber" is in prison right now, being prosecuted, and probably, at the end of the day, going to prison for a large number of years. I doubt the Chinese will help us do the same thing to their "warriors". Or did you just fumble a rather irrelevant (and stupid) slam against the current administration?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:can't say i'm surprised (Score:5, Interesting)
What did China do when they found all the bugs the US government put in the plane we sold them?
Nothing.
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/20/news/mn-23796 [latimes.com]
Re:can't say i'm surprised (Score:4, Funny)
What did China do when they found all the bugs the US government put in the plane we sold them?
They debugged it?
Re:Honestly (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
This question is repeated endlessly at almost every major world event, "Does this come as a surprise to anyone?"
Stop already, its just a useless waste of bits.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
What kind of /.'r do you think I am to have a girlfriend?
Pshh I snort at you sir, now excuse while I go back to my parents basement to play WoW.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Google was never ambiguous that the reason they are threatening to leave is because the government was hacking their servers. The removal of the filtering was just an extra "fuck you!" to the Chinese government. They tried playing nicely with the Chinese and they still took advantage of them.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry, I don't think it's likely Google will switch to Microsoft IIS anytime soon.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry, I don't think it's likely Google will switch to Microsoft IIS anytime soon.
I believe that you seriously misrepresent Microsoft IIS. I have significant experience proving that IIS does not require Chinese seizure in order activate its self-destruct sequence.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Gmail, the aspect of Google that was being hacked is not available in China.
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Re:Fight China -- the capitalist way! (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't have to pull out, but removing "Most Favored Nation" trade status might help.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you need to give the Chinese more credit. As you've said, they have a billion more people than we do, yet those people are living on a similar sized landmass with similar resources. If there were a billion more people in America tomorrow, you can bet your ass that the interests on Wall Street would be aligned with Washington and implementing some serious production and other controls on the population. Look at what a big deal illegal immigration is. Americans are already stingy with resources an
Re:Overloards (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, China
The reason China is able to compete is because of a handful factors:
* Enslavement/enticement of foreign countries to utilize their natural resources (see: Africa)
* Cheap-as-fuck labor
* Wanton IP theft
* A docile populace
* Totalitarian state able to push all this through to the populace
* UN complicity towards Chinese abuse of standards which everyone else "has" to abide by. (See: pollution/global warming crap)
Re:Overloards (Score:5, Informative)
The government/culture of The People's Republic of China has only been in existence for about 70 years. Before that, it was the nationalistic Republic of China for about 35 years. And before that, it was an hereditary monarchy or thousands of year.
Maybe you should pick up a history book some time.
Re:Overloards (Score:5, Insightful)
Western culture began in the ancient Mediterranean thousands of years ago. You would find most aspects of modern western culture in ancient Greece, but a lot of it was around even before that. The major elements are government by representative democracy, the rule of law and emphasis on scientific legalism (I don't know what else to call it) in the fields of science and philosophy. Also the belief in the right to personal liberty for land owning males remains intact even today. Your claim that western culture is young is patently absurd.
You're trying to make a comparison between the age of the USA and the age of eastern culture. That comparison makes no sense.
Re:Overloards (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the current government, it's only been around for sixty or so. During that time they killed millions with famine caused specifically by poor government policy (the great leap forward: people were literally eating their own children. It was horrible). Then they killed and tortured millions more, in the temper tantrum of the youth known as the Cultural Revolution. This was once again encouraged and caused by poor government policy.
Furthermore, I don't think I need to go over all the things the government currently does that violates human rights. Let's just say when the torch came to San Francisco, protesters had to color coordinate so they could keep track of what exactly they were protesting.