Rhode Island Affiliates Banned From Amazon.com Sales 532
Rand Huck writes "Amazon.com has now added Rhode Island to its blacklist of affiliates in response to its proposed budget changes to enforce a tax on Internet sales, which includes commissions on their affiliate program by content providers based in Rhode Island. The first state to be blacklisted was North Carolina, for the same reason. If you go to a Rhode Island-based or North Carolina-based website that advertises Amazon.com goods as an affiliate, that website will no longer have the goods available because otherwise Amazon.com would be forced to pay sales tax to the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations or the State of North Carolina. The state's rationale is, if someone clicks to buy a good from Amazon.com via a site based in Rhode Island, it's equivalent to buying a good from a brick and mortar chain store located in Rhode Island."
I fear that pretty soon... (Score:2, Funny)
...the only Amazon.com affiliates left will be in The Amazon.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's really no big deal for me. I pretty much ONLY buy stuff that Amazon sells itself, so I can get the 'free shipping' with orders over $25..and of course, no sales tax.
I generally trust Amazon more than I do the small fry sites they 'affiliate' with.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I fear that pretty soon... (Score:5, Informative)
What exactly do you mean? When someone clicks on one of the recommended books on my Amazon affiliate page*, they are taken to Amazon.ca where they can buy the book directly from Amazon. I don't handle any of their transactions, or ship any books; all my affiliate page does is give me a commission on any book that a visitor to my site may purchase if they access Amazon.ca through the links on my site. There's no additional 'trust' needed.
*which I am not going to link here, because that would be affiliate link spam. My site is in my sig if anyone wants more information on responsible products.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I always get the free shipping thing myself...and deliveries don't take all 'that' long for me. I don't live in an Amazon occupied state.
Re:I fear that pretty soon... (Score:5, Informative)
I think you're a bit misguided here. The "small fry sites" you're referring to are sites, like mine [gorobotics.net], that link to Amazon products in exchange for a cut from Amazon. It's huge marketing for Amazon, and a tidy revenue for me and others. But not now. I'm in NC and I got screwed. Amazon hasn't killed people *selling* products, they've just cut off people that are doing free advertising for them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
>>I generally trust Amazon more than I do the small fry sites they 'affiliate' with.
I agree. I remember the first time I unwittingly ordered 5 things from 5 different vendors. I sat there for over two weeks wondering why one package showed up two days after my order while another took 15 days. And the quick package did me no good because all the things were for one project.
Nowadays I either order everything from Amazon proper, or I go directly to the affiliate's storefront since they probably speciali
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
MOD PARENT DOWN. God, how the hell did this get so high? Read all the other replies, this is about Affiliates and not the Market place.
Re:I fear that pretty soon... (Score:4, Informative)
You mean "it's easy to not pay sales tax and get away with it".
You are required to pay the sales tax to the local government where you live.
Actually, it's unconstitutional for any state to charge sales tax on goods bought from another state. What you're describing is the "use tax" that many states have as a "work-around". Sadly, the days when people cared about the constitution seem to be behind us.
The only reason that online retailers don't charge you is because they would need to know and keep up with the tax laws of hundreds or thousands of locations, and set up payments to them. It would be prohibitively complicated.
Actually, that's trivial - you just buy software that does that for you. Plenty of "whole store" turnkey computer systems manage this, both the local sales tax and the local income tax by store address (you'd think it would be by ZIP code, but Philly has tax districts smaller than ZIP codes).
Re:I fear that pretty soon... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hawaii is close...
It's not passed yet (but this is the best time to catch it).
If you're in Hawaii get on the phone lines to your state senator and harass them about this.
http://www.starbulletin.com/business/20090627_Amazon_poised_to_cut_affiliate_program_in_Hawaii.html [starbulletin.com]
Inconsistent behavior (Score:3, Informative)
These are not the only states to impose this type of tax. NY requires collection of sales tax, but Amazon isn't shutting out those affiliates. If they want to make a stand, they should at least be consistent about it.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, this was my first reaction as an NYS resident.
If given a choice between collecting tax and booting all affiliates within a given state, why has Amazon chosen "boot affiliates" in NC and RI, but "collect tax" in NY?
For some purchases it's actually cheaper for me to ship to my parents' in NJ and then drive down there.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
NY's AG started this whole thing and I think it's still being litigated. If Amazon stops doing business with NY affiliates then it may be seen as evidence of admission of guilt or whatever and NY's AG wins. If they continue to litigate and win they can then go back and start up their other affiliates
Re:Inconsistent behavior (Score:5, Informative)
So if you lived in NY and you wanted to buy something from an online affiliate located in RI, you would have to pay tax in both NY and RI.
And that's the problem with it. The Commerce Clause was put in the constitution to prevent things like this double-taxing for interstate commerce. If it's not as popular in some states to tax purchases made by residents, then they're going to try to get tax money from outside the state. It shouldn't hold up to constitutional standards on the issue, but that doesn't mean it will be overturned if challenged.
States don't get it. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, and you dont even need to do that. afaik (I'm not from usa) you can just set up company in another state or country and work thru it with amazon.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Amazon is trying their best to avoid having to collect sales tax (and compete on a level playing field).
Wrong. RI and NC are trying to expand the definition of nexus to force mail order companies not located in their state to collect sales tax from citizens in RI and NC.
At present the playing field is level. Businesses outside RI and NC don't have to collect RI and NC sales tax, and business inside RI and NC don't have to collect tax for the rest of the country. That's pretty fair.
Catalogs (Score:5, Insightful)
This is difficult, because an internet retailer is a lot like a catalog retailer, who might have 80% of their business out of state and isn't set up to take 50 states' differing tax rates and does not have the accounting muscle to pay 50 different state taxes each quarter. I think that's the main problem. And then you have the issue of ship to in one state (NC for example) and bill to (non-taxable like Oregon) etc etc. It creates a lot of headaches. Catalogs typically only pay/charge sales taxes for the state their accounting division is in. Multiply this by millions and millions of customers and you can see why Amazon would oppose this merely on the accounting issue. Most accounting software simply isn't set up for taxation in all 50 states, especially automatically.
Re:Catalogs (Score:4, Insightful)
Doesn't have the accounting muscle? Why can't they use their cloud computing cluster?
The "acounting muscle" argument is pure BS - they have enough accounting and computing horsepower to run the rest of their business ... and they do a lot of calculations for every shaopping cart on every page refresh. Since they CAN cut off specific states, and they also calculate shipping by state, they can certainly do sales tax by state. They're just doing this to get their affiliates to lobby for them.
Re:Catalogs (Score:5, Informative)
Since they CAN cut off specific states, and they also calculate shipping by state, they can certainly do sales tax by state.
It's not that simple.
You can't just assess sales tax according to the destination state. In many states, there are local taxes as well, and it varies based on the locality. A merchant calculates sales tax based on the MERCHANT's location, and the various taxing authorities make sure he/she knows what should be collected.
The shipping companies provide rate tables based on ZIP code, and it's a simple lookup. But, you can't even use ZIP codes to determine tax rates, because ZIP code boundaries don't necessary follow political boundaries.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The consumer is certainly governed by the laws of the state of their residence, and is required to pay consumption taxes on all purchases (a sales tax IS a consumption tax). When you buy something out-of-state,you're supposed to pay your local sales tax, and apply for a reimbursement from the originating state. Small purchases have been ignored, but try buying a new boat or car in one state and taking delivery in another - when you go to register the vehicle, you'll be required to pay the sales tax. The o
Re:Catalogs (Score:5, Insightful)
This is where the Federal Government actually has the authority per the Constitution to step in and regulate interstate commerce. Congress needs to dictate ONE tax rate for all Internet purchases.
That is a VERY good idea! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That is a VERY good idea! (Score:5, Informative)
The State of South Dakota charges a different rate per city. PER CITY. Each city's rate ranges from 2-6% if I recall correctly. Also some states (NJ, Indiana in 2007) change their rate on occasion. And then dealing with non-profit (non-taxable) institutions? That means waiting for an official tax exemption certificate, of which every state has different rules. Schools and Non Profits buy a lot of junk. A Lot. You have no idea how much man power it takes to explain why, to Betty at Podunk Baptist Church, Rural, IL - she needs to find, fill out and fax/mail a tax exemption certificate before you can process her order. And then deal with her angry pastor three months later when their order never arrives because she didn't/forgot to/sent the wrong form. This is a huge, huge bitch to deal with for companies beyond Amazon.
It's much uglier than that (Score:4, Informative)
A couple of examples: I live in a suburb of Chicago that gets much of its revenue from sales taxes on malls, etc. within the city limits. Its tax rate is different from the next municipality over, but my zip code overlaps that suburb. Another example: my office is in a town that straddles the border between Cook County, IL and Lake County, IL. The Zip code at my office (in Cook) and at the hospital where I have customers (in Lake) are the same, but the tax rates differ by 3% (Cook has among the highest sales taxes in the nation, if not the highest).
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That is a VERY good idea! (Score:4, Informative)
Well, there's 50 state sales tax rates, plus thousands of county and tens if not hundreds of thousands of city sales tax rates. Plus special districts. And not all of them line up on ZIP code boundaries, in many places part of a ZIP code's inside a city (subject to city sales tax) and part is outside (exempt from city sales tax). And then you have the fun of exactly what items are taxable (and it's not binary, in many places items are classified differently by the different taxing authorities so just because an item's subject to state sales tax doesn't mean it's neccesarily subject to city sales tax). And those rules change, so just because the rules say one thing this week doesn't mean they'll say the same thing next week.
So how does a business get an authoritative answer (one it can rely on in a court of law) for any arbitrary address? And how does it get notified by all those taxing authorities when the rules it needs to follow change? One of the principles of law is that the people who have to obey the law must be able to know what they need to do to obey it, and while I see all these states making lots of noise about businesses being obligated to follow the law I don't see them setting anything up to tell those businesses what the law actually says. And it's the responsibility of the goverment involved to tell the businesses what the law requires, it's not the business's responsibility to guess at it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And that tax rate should be 0.00%.
Not just because I'm greedy either. Lower prices due to not having to maintain a brick and mortar store are the only things that allow online stores to compete against local stores. Because if you buy it locally you get the product instantly. And they have to be sufficiently lower including shipping costs to beat out brick and mortar stores. If you take away a huge portion of their tax advantage, they start to become tremendously less profitable, and thus less viable.
Re:Absolutely not (Score:5, Insightful)
Equally bullshit is your state trying to tax me for a purchase when I've never set foot in it.
Re: (Score:2)
Having worked on ERP accounting systems, I can say that sales tax should always be calculated based on the ship-to address. That said, smaller accounting packages may not be set up to support taxation for all 50 states.
However, any large corporation should understand that using a system that IS capable of handling multiple tax jurisdictions is an expected cost of doing business.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
These are not impediments to Amazon doing business, as they do enough business in all the states to pay for the software that would allow them to pay sales tax. If a vendor did hav
The trucks that deliver the products pay taxes. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure the gasoline and other annual taxes to deliver the products to the customer cover the wear and tear on the roads.
Amazon is not using sewer, electrical, police or road services locally as brick and morter store would.
Tax 'em! (Score:2, Interesting)
I run a brick and mortar store AND an online store. No more than 5 minutes ago I was talking to a customer in the store, and she was asking what the sales tax was to see if she could buy the product cheaper online. That's ridiculous. People are short sighted and selfish. If this continues, we will have very little retail anywhere in the country in a few years, because everybody will be trying to avoid the sales tax. The gov't needs to close this huge loophole. Amazon needs to compete on a level playin
If they don't use local resources why should they (Score:5, Insightful)
pay taxes?
Are internet retailers using your sewer? You schools? Your police?
Then why should people living in another state fund yours?
Tax them where they reside.
Whats next? Taxing people for giving gifts to people in higher tax states? Hell, lets tax people's medical benefits - oops.
Re:If they don't use local resources why should th (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Stop. Just stop. You're making too much sense.
There was a bill introduced in the Maryland General Assembly this session that sought to charge title taxes on off-road vehicles - figure that one out!
Really, though, we should all just realize that for the most part these kinds of taxes aren't supposed to make sense, they are just supposed to raise revenue.
Re: (Score:2)
add a bit of code to my web site to collect sales tax correctly all over the country
Don't forget that quarterly, you'll have to file and submit all those pennies to 50 different locations.
Then, what if the city and county steps in and says, "you know what, all these people are in our city are buying stuff outside our city, we want taxes for that." Do you think you would still be in business if you had the overhead to deal with taxes for 50 different locations, let alone how ever many cities/counties would start wanting taxes from you.
There is already a solution for this. The taxes are th
Re:Tax 'em! (Score:5, Informative)
People are short sighted and selfish. If this continues, we will have very little retail anywhere in the country in a few years, because everybody will be trying to avoid the sales tax.
Mail order has *always been there* and always presented the option of letting people purchase out of state and duck paying sales tax. If your state has a confiscatory sales tax rate that makes mail order 7-10% less expensive, then move your business somewhere else or let your legislators know that sales tax is ruining your business.
Oh, and it's not a loop hole. It's called the commerce clause of the US Constitution. It protects your business from being subject to the laws of all 50 US states as well as preventing states from creating tarriffs and anti-competitive laws to keep out of state competitors like you out of the market.
What BS their logic is (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm in Massachusetts. If I happen to visit the website of the Trinity Repertory Theater (www.trinityrep.com), a theater located in Providence, RI, then my internet traffic doesn't even pass through Rhode Island, much less end in Rhode Island. Their website is hosted by a low-cost provider out in California. The only tie to Rhode Island is that the website was created by an organization in Rhode Island. If I visit that website I don't "visit" Rhode Island. So why should Rhode Island have ANY claim on anything I might purchase from an affiliate program hosted on that site? I'm visiting a website hosted in California and if they were an Amazon affiliate then that would involve a company located in Washington. RI doesn't have any valid claim to tax such a transaction.
By their own logic, I'm buying goods from a brick & mortar store in California (or more appropriately Seattle), NOT Rhode Island. If anything, the company in RI is simply acting as an advertising agency. They designed an advertisement (the website) that's on display in California for a company that actually does business in Washington.
Out of state phone orders (Score:3, Interesting)
By the very same reasoning they use for Amazon, if anyone goes to a phone located in Rhode Island and makes a purchase of anything, it's the same as going to a brick and mortar of that shop in the state and is also subject to equivalent taxes. Even ordering by US mail out of a catalog would reason out to the same logic (providing the catalog and/or mailbox is physically located in R.I.). Amazon might even be able to use that to force R.I. to either include phone orders across the board or drop the bill/law.
Sale origin difficult to pinpoint (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazon is basically screaming (Score:5, Interesting)
Amazon is basically screaming: "Taxation Without Representation" and taking a stand against what it believes is unconstitutional taxation. (ie being taxed by a foreign (different state) government) This is exactly what happen in the mid-late 1700s and the reason the US is it's own country rather than part of the United Kingdom.
I completely agree with Amazon. I happen to have an Amazon shop (I'm not located in either of those states) I know it screws the webstore owner, but Amazon is doing the right thing and THEY need to stand up to their own state's goverment and let them know that they are hurting their own people by being greeding and trying to tax people that don't even live in their state.
Re:Amazon is basically screaming (Score:4, Interesting)
Sales tax should be that of business location (Score:2)
Sales tax for interstate domestic commerce should be based on location of business not the location of the consumer, the sale happens where the business is located.
Amazon is incorporated in delaware, delaware has no state sales tax, hence the tax you owe is 0%
this sounds self defeating (Score:3, Interesting)
So the store doesn't get a sale, doesn't pay the stakeholder, who was presumably going to spend money in the state on taxable goods and services. The state still loses. The original sale doesn't generate revenue and the seller won't be purchasing anything that generates tax revenue with the proceeds of the sale that didn't happen. Sorry states, there will always be at least one state that will take advantage of this and host amazon friendly affiliate websites. This is kinda like how you can incorporate an LLC in any state you have an "agent" in (100 bucks a year gets you agent representation in any state) but no one in their right minds incorporates an LLC outside of Nevada or Delaware because of the incredibly low taxes and business friendly body of case law they've produced. You still have to pay personal income tax in the state you perform work but you get a credit for taxes you pay to other states for your state of residence taxes.
old world, meet new world (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not that they're being unreasonable, per se. It's that they're applying and old model to a new technology. It's a bit like trying to do rocket science with the math available to Aristotle.
Physical location matters little on the Internet. But our countries and states are defined by physical location. So it's not a trivial problem, but applying solutions that simply don't fit will not solve anything.
Every breath you take... (Score:3, Funny)
Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every click you make
Every step you take
I'll be taxing you
Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
Every night you stay
I'll be taxing you
Oh, cant you see
You belong to me
How my poor RIDT aches
With every step you take
is our education system really this bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
It truly amazes me how few people understand even basic economics.
Amazon does not have brick and mortar stores. So it's not the same. In fact, when the tax laws where written that apply to "mail-order" they understood this basic concept. Based on those laws you only have to pay sales tax if the company you're ordering from has stores(brick and mortar) in your county.
Facts: Amazon pays taxes. They pay taxes on their employees, properties, income, purchases, etc. The shipping companies also pay taxes. In order to pay all of these taxes the price of their products and services get marked up.
So, when you order an item from Amazon, a surprising amount of what you're really paying for is indirect tax. Including local taxes paid by the shipping company.
The gross tax lean across the US is over 50%. It's insane. Anyone who agrees that there should be any new and/or more taxation is a complete and utter moron. More taxation increases the cost of living, which increases poverty, which increases crime rates, which has the end effect of idiot politicians stating that we need more tax. It's a corrupt cycle that killing this country and needs to end.
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would I or Amazon have to pay taxes twice or more for something? First Amazon would need to pay taxes at whatever locale they're at, then I would need to pay taxes on the same product in my home state, then also every state it goes through as it is getting shipped from Florida to Rhode Island?
There is a reason intra-state purchases are not taxed. Read the constitution or so, you know the part where it says: The Congress shall have power . . . To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Funny)
Do you know how much superhighways take to maintain? The Internet is the information superhighway, so the taxes go to pay for travel on it. When you drive to Amazon, you're putting wear on the superhighways of the state Amazon is based in, and then Amazon has to drive your order to the affiliate, which puts wear on the superhighways to the affiliate's state. That's a lot of virtual wear!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And also putting wear and tear on the physical highways, which are used to ship the goods.
That is what the Federal tax on fuel is supposed to pay for.
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:4, Insightful)
Not that they get any better when you do that. You can just pay more for them. It helps you get re-elected. What, you're not in Congress? Oh, well disregard everything I just said...
LOOK, SEX SCANDALS!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Then the government needs to fix its tax structure, not try to charge us more sales tax.
It's simple: fuel tax pays for roads. If it's not enough, then raise the fuel tax. Instead of hobbling the economy by taxing everyone for purchases, it would make a lot more sense to tax road users for their use of the road, and let that cost be passed on as appropriate (i.e., someone shipping lots of heavy stuff will be forced to raise prices, whereas someone selling digital goods won't).
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Insightful)
No, this is no more than another reach where states are trying to end run the commerce clause which has prevented them from successfully taxing out of state mail order purchases. This one is especially stupid because they are saying "because Amazon does business with contractors in our state, they have to act as a tax collection agent for us." This is a change in two ways:
* The state is extending the definition of "nexus" to include the use of contractors. Historically, a nexus includes employees and/or property.
* The state is basically telling mail order merchants to not spend a dime in the state or you have to become a tax collection agent for the state.
Basically, N. Carolina and Rhode Island are shooting themselves in the head and preventing mail order operations from using any in-state contractors to do things like print catalogs, mail catalogs, provide call center services, freight forwarding, delivery services and so on. In other words, no jobs for your state from any mail order company.
This is why there is a commerce clause in the constitution - to prevent one state from taking actions that unfairly burden a business or citizen in another state. Why should I care what sales tax is in California? My business is in Indiana. Eventually this will go to the supreme court and get tossed just like every other attempt by one state to make businesses in another state collect taxes for them. This has been building up for a while and we're due for another 8-1 decision in favor of the Federal Government having EXCLUSIVE jurisdiction over interstate commerce.
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Informative)
income and sales taxes (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe all sales taxes should be abolished in favor or progressive income taxes
And I believe just the opposite. The federal income tax should be abolished, then the size of the federal government cut back to it's Constitutional limits. Once that's done if user fees aren't enough them have a federal sales tax. People should not be taxed for their hard work, just for what they buy and or use and the pollution they create.
Amazon should charge sales tax on those states that pass these laws.
Why should Amaz
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:4, Insightful)
You wouldn't. Amazon doesn't pay (sales) taxes at whatever locale they are at. And no state can charge a tax for shipping goods through the state (as mentioned in your Constitution excerpt), except as a fee for using the road system. That only leaves the final point of sale.
Why should ordering something over the internet and having it delivered to your door result in you paying less sales tax?
First, the word you are looking for is interstate. Intrastate purchases are taxed. Secondly, the interstate aspect of the transaction is not being taxed, rather it's the purchase in Rhode Island of a good that is.
I fail to see the distinction between paying sales tax on goods purchased at Amazon and goods purchased in a local Walmart (when discussing non-Washington/Arkansas residents). In either case you're purchasing an item in, e.g., RI and accepting delivery there. The actual charges are applied from a credit card company in Deleware to an account, which you will then pay later with a check drawn on some other corporation. Why should the Internet be magical?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And my infrastructure pays for parks I enjoy, roads I use, schools which educate the people around me so that they don't all turn to street crime, police to deal with the ones who do, etc. Taxes buy me civilization.
I don't believe that is true, at least not according to this:
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Just imagined what that'd be: a tax collector approaches, I grab my shotgun. Sounds fun!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Please understand how sales taxes work before you submit nonsense like that.
I'm not going to explain the whole system, but suffice it to say that if I pay sales tax in one jurisdiction, then that tax paid is a cre
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I doubt its amazon links you see spammed, they're pretty strict about bad practices. If you see such for amazon links, you can report it and they will look into it (and disable the affiliates account without payment if he has violated terms of services)
The ones you see spammed are usually something shitty like "get 1000's of your friends click this link and earn $0.001 per click!"
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Let them pay their fair share of taxes,
They already do, considering that they're consuming approximately 0% of the state's resources.
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
Sales taxes are taxes on CONSUMPTION. The CONSUMER isn't paying their fair share, and Amazon is the enabler. Consumption taxes help pay for your local schools, etc. Your local retailer does their share, and so do their customers. Since Amazon's customers aren't paying their fair share of consumption taxes, your local retailer is paying MORE than their fair share. Your
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What is taxed twice is your return. Your tax return for paying to much in taxes is counted as income and taxed the following year. Even though those monies were taxes collected.
You have the world's crappiest accountant.
Re: (Score:2)
They pay taxes on fuel when in the state.
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Insightful)
You really want to go down that line of reasoning?
The customer pays for his/her bandwidth.
FedEx and UPS pay their taxes for road use(fuel).
Et al, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
If every state does it, Amazon will start charging the sales tax as part of the sale, and the referral program will remain.
They're only blocking these states to try and prevent the practice spreading. If everywhere charges sales tax, Amazon have nothing to gain and lots to lose by blocking referrals.
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
State revenues have fallen through the floor. California how has the worst credit record around, and on July 2nd will start issuing IOUs instead of cutting cheques, because they're out of money.
They have to do this because lenders won't take California IOUs (bonds) because California can
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Insightful)
And I suppose the person with 50k in credit card debt and a house in foreclosure is also in that situation because they can't raise enough income?
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the million dollar house and their insatiable desire for new goods. A good rule of thumb for people (and states for this matter) in debt is to first create a budget that reduces spending below ones income. Not to figure out a way to make more money. This is not rocket science.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What nonsense. You will never be foreclosed on if you're making your mortgage payments. What ever gave you the idea that a house could be forclosed because it's theoretical resale value fell?
There is *no overlap* between "living frugally" and "house you can't afford". House prices here are stupid so I *rent*. Fuck all the assholes too proud to rent.
The only possible reasons for forclosure are "irresponsible living" and "two disasters" (merely losing your job or unexpeced medical expenses are no excuse,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Or they could just cut back. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. This is just as important for States as individuals.
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, they could stop spending. They could start to consider that this massive govt. run healthcare (regardless of your views on it) is something we absolutely cannot afford right now. They could stop with the pork in bills.
Why can't the govt. do what a 'sane' normal household does when it is having budget problems. The first thing is to cut spending!!
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, from everything I'm seeing and hearing now...this current govt. healthcare thing will cost aobut $1Trillion additional money, and still leave about 35 million people uncovered.
How about just starting with regulating that insurance companies can't deny you for pre-existing conditions. How about broadening the HSA (Health Savings Account) to be more flexible and allow more citizens to save MORE of their own money pre-tax for their routine health needs, and only need insurance for catastrophic needs?
I did that for awhile and it was great. Why should people not budget for routine health needs like they budget for other things in life (food, shelter, etc)? Hell, when I was doing that and told Dr. and labs I had work (even an MRI) I was paying on my own, they gave me at least a 15% discount right on the spot.
I found that I could shop around for Dr. and what all for best price and service. That puts true competition back into the system...that would lower costs, it also cuts out the bean counters and other middlemen.
Trouble is...that wouldn't allow the govt. to have a heavy hand in the midst of it all, and with the current govt...that isn't a goal of their apparently.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Proposition 13 isn't the problem, it really isn't. The problem is the state legislature which continues to add socialist benefits to socialist benefits.
The Political Beast eats its own, creates an unsustainable welfare state, paid for by exorbitant taxes. We currently have Sales taxes fast approaching 10%, chasing the merchants from the state. Brick and Mortar shops cannot compete with Amazon's sales tax free setup, even if the prices are the same, and you include shipping!
We wouldn't be in this problem if
Re: (Score:2)
If they have to pay taxes, and if we have to pay sales tax on such things, it increases the costs for everyone.
Amazon does pay taxes in the places they have physical facilities. They do not want the expense of having to collect and pay sales tax in every jurisdiction in America. There's more to this than just state tax, there's county, city, township and even school district level sales taxation in different states in the US.
Re:Hopefully it will cut down on affiliate-link sp (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong, as with most of the rest of your post. There is no such "reimbursement". If a resident of Maryland physically goes to Pennsylvania and buys something, the sales tax on the transaction is owed to Pennsylvania. There is no reimbursement, even if Maryland also demands a "use tax" on the item.
The Supreme Court decided some time ago (in a mail order case, not an Internet case) that companies could not be required to collect sales taxes for states in which they did not have a "nexus". It's not a matter of a "tax holiday" or of Congress sitting on their behind; Congress has no obligation to act for the states in this matter. It's not a matter of enforcing state law. It's a matter of states trying to widen the definition of that "nexus" beyond what the courts have accepted in the past. It probably won't work, but Amazon isn't willing to get into a court battle over it. Newegg, on the other hand, after initially collecting New York tax, ceased doing so after consulting their lawyers. NY has apparently not taken them up on the challenge.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't speak for anyone else, but providing yet another source of revenue for government is the last thing I want. The US government already spends more than any other government in the world, and (surprise) the result isn't even close to ideal.
No, what the US government needs is less spending -- or even a change in where the money goes -- certainly not more revenue.
Re:Every state needs to step up. (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazon is taxed. They aren't getting a free ride. Everyone is already required to pay a sales tax on the items they buy out of state anyway. In your state tax filing it is usually listed under Use tax.
So amazon isn't going to pay any more in tax, the people that are evading taxes would be paying for the tax.
Re:Every state needs to step up. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is absolutely correct! In fact, you are supposed to report and pay use tax on everything you purchase - even used stuff from garage sales, (not that anyone does).
Re: (Score:2)
even used stuff from garage sales
I'm not sure about that. I thought there was something about the equivalent of "trade" vs. sales? Sort of like craigslist? I didn't think those sorts of "sales" counted as a sale, and thus didn't have to be reported for tax by the use tax.
Re:Every state needs to step up. (Score:5, Insightful)
No. Amazon is simply not collecting sales tax for states they are not located in. Why should Amazon (an out of state company) have to pay to do the job of the RI Department of Revenue? Since when did they delete the commerce clause from the constitution?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
How are they not taxed like everybody else? As with catalog ordering, they aren't responsible for state sales tax.
They pay corporate taxes, no free ride there.
Am I missing something?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean once ten percent of the population no longer has to pay ninety percent of the taxes?
You mean when fifty percent of the population finally pay more than zero net tax?
You mean when the vast majority stop getting more benefits than they are paying for then maybe we can spend less?
Yes that sounds great.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They DO get taxed, their company HQ has a physical location and they MUST pay business taxes. Boeing and Nvidia pay LESS taxes than Amazon.com does.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Found an article about companies and taxes.. it was one of the sources in the Amazon.com WP article i think.
Nvidia at 2.2% tax: http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/04/0423_corporate_taxes/22.htm [businessweek.com]
Boeing at 3.2% : http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/04/0423_corporate_taxes/18.htm [businessweek.com]
Amazon.com at 4.1% : http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/04/0423_corporate_taxes/15.htm [businessweek.com]
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
So how do you propose we pay for roads/police/fireman/military etc..... you are saying we are ALWAYS worse if the government takes some money to pay for these things? I think we would be much much worse if we weren't taxed and these things weren't paid for.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Of course it's legal. It's called "collecting sales tax," and it's legal everywhere in the US for a retailer to do so.
And let's not call it anything else, because we do not want to confuse the issue.
Hawaii now banned also (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They are taking the position they have in other States, partly because the States are smaller, and partly because they would be forced into more litigation over the same issues they are fighting in New York. I would bet their lawyers believe they will eventually win in SCOTUS and then they will restore their old practices