Japanese ESRB Bans Rape Depiction In Games 662
eldavojohn writes "The Ethics Organization of Computer Software (EOCS), now 233 companies strong, and met in Tokyo yesterday to ban a controversial title from Japan known as RapeLay, an eroge game (something much more adult than the more popular dating simulators). It's gotten a lot of press as reviewers have noted at one point the player must force sex on a 12-year-old. More importantly, the large ($353 million annually) adult game industry in Japan will now need to stay away from rape in their games if they wish to remain a member of EOCS. RapeLay seems to be available on Amazon's UK and JP sites, sparking outrage and causing a former US Ambassador to Japan to write an editorial criticizing Japan, saying, 'Only Japan allows people to possess these hideous images without penalty. Six of the G-7 countries have found ways to protect the innocent from being prosecuted for possession of child pornography. Is it not time for Japan to find a way to punish the guilty?' Singapore's Straits Times has more details, pointing out that it's still not illegal to possess these materials in Japan. We discussed this and other games last month in an editorial."
Penn Jillette speaks about Rape Lay (Score:3, Informative)
Penn Jillette speaks about Rape Lay:
http://www.crackle.com/c/Penn_Says#id=2473058&ml=o%3D12%26fpl%3D360812%26fx%3D [crackle.com]
I think I agree with him, especially on the parts about fantasy game violence.
Thank God (Score:1, Informative)
it is not true!
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/05/29/media-invents-eroge-ban/ [sankakucomplex.com]
Only thing worst than a prude America, is a prude Japan!
Where will I get my rape-themed H-games and H-Anime from?
If it is ok to murder in games it should be OK to rape. Nothing wrong with it, and I have no reason to be anonymous!
Nothing changed really... (Score:2, Informative)
From the Kotaku article:
What kind of changes can we expect? Ero game maker Syrup Soft is delaying its upcoming game Gang raped by the entire village ~girls covered in milky liquid~ to re-moniker it The trap set by the entire village ~bodies covered in milky liquid~. So, yeah, expect more creative ways of masking rape and rape iconography as well as possibly more "amateur" or unlicensed games.
So "rape"-related content will still be released in video games but it will simply be masked as something else. This is just like having characters in anime that look like little kids, but claim they are actually adults.Additionally, this right's group might think they have one a victory, but there are still tons of magazines and independent comics (and games) released that are focused on the topic rape.
Re:ESRB? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:ban them both (Score:2, Informative)
Do you even know what the term "false dichotomy" means? Because you sure as hell did not use it correctly here.
Custer's Revenge, anyone? (Score:4, Informative)
"Let's go back to the old NES days. The only thing that ever made people do was eat mushrooms and beat the shit outta turtles. Those were the days, young prepubescent CGI girls could safely wander the streets."
You must've missed the game "Custer's Revenge", a game where you specifically went around raping native american women tied to a stake.
- Custer's Revenge game play clip [youtube.com]
Disturbing stuff...
Re:Protect the innocent! (Score:3, Informative)
Those who have those urges towards children may feel prodded seeing the depicted acts to try them in the real world.
Maybe. Although nobody has come up with any convincing evidence yet; most studies find no [wiley.com] effect [nih.gov]. And some psychologists have suggested the effect could be the opposite (i.e., not being able to see the acts they already fantasize about may push them to do them themselves, rather than watching somebody else do them), although I have yet to see a study examining this hypothesis explicitly.
I.e., we don't know whether the effect of limiting access to such material is to reduce or increase the number of offences that are committed. Therefore, IMO, it is hideously irresponsible to act based on hunches and guesses of what might be the case.
Re:Protect the innocent! (Score:5, Informative)
This is Japan. You can maybe sort-of convince them to give up their rape porn. But schoolgirl porn? No deal. It's a cultural tradition, don't you know?
Re:Morals and all that jazz (Score:3, Informative)
"banning guns in the US causes violent crime rates to rise (see: Washington DC)"
Speaking of rape, you just managed to rape some statistics quite spectacularly.
Slashdot of all places, where the mantra "Correlation does not imply causation" is repeated regularly is somewhere I would not expect to see quite such a spectular bastardisation of statistic.
I agree with the sentiment of your post, but please, if you're going to make a point actually use firm evidence to back it up rather than simply resorting to speculation based on mangled statistics else you're effectively no better than the politicians you talk down.
I know a lot of Americans are touchy about their guns and gun control but come on, that doesn't give you an excuse to stoop to the level of politicians and rape statistics to claim something as fact when it may well not be. Please, you're better than that.
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:5, Informative)
There's a translation patch though, but that doesn't matter because I can't get it to work under Wine, and it won't run under VirtualBox either because it's 3D. :(
Not posting as AC because I don't really care if Slashdot knows I like rape eroge.
Re:And in real life... (Score:3, Informative)
Good post, all of it.
But I would like to extend it by saying that Japanese culture is very different from that of almost any other country. The low crime-rate is attributed to (wait for it.....) shame! That is, people will refrain from crime because of the social stigma in their community.
How does this influence the number of rapes AND the number of reported rapes, it's hard to say, but I would guess that the incidence of rape is comparable to the incidence of crime, which is rather low. But it's very likely compounded by under-reporting.
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:5, Informative)
It's not Slashdot's fault.
The mainstream media picked up the "RapeLay controversy" some time in early 2009 when some focus-on-the-family groups in the US noticed it and started complaining about it.
But the game is years old, and I think it was mostly a popular Bittorrent target after this 2007 Something Awful review [somethingawful.com].
Ah, 2007. George W. Bush was president, the Dow Jones Industrial Average was above 12,000, credit was cheap and homes were expensive, and no one but forum goons knew about RapeLay. Those were good times.
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:2, Informative)
I'm quite aware of the SA review, however I specified that I was talking about the shitstorm over it, not some humorous review on some website that nobody in the media or government noticed and raged over.
This, however, all started with an article [belfasttelegraph.co.uk] back in early February, almost exactly four whole months before now. Slashdot is very much late to this.
Re:ban them both (Score:3, Informative)
The term for the fallacy you describe is not false dichotomy, but assuming facts not in evidence, namely that child porn simulations decrease child rape.
A false dichotomy is when two choices are presented, and others are ignored. In this scenarios, there really are only two choice: ban or not ban. Those are both mutually exclusive and exhaustive.
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:2, Informative)
Huh? Most japanese programs run fine under wine. Many of them better than they do under modern windows. Are you setting your locale right?
The demand for such games?? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita [nationmaster.com]
Hence the need to relief these urges virtually. That would be a good thing, no??
Re:Protect the innocent! (Score:2, Informative)
And who are you to judge what?
A prophet? A god?
There are no such things as right and wrong. Nothing deserves to be destroyed. This is ridiculous.
Sure, that must be it. Only the USA knows the holy pure way, the others that aren't the same must be sinners.
Morale is artificial. Human nature is not.
It makes more sense to simply allow perversion, since it's part of human nature, than to prevent it by following artificial puritan ways.
Let people be perverts if they will, period.
I'd rather say the dangerous ones that ought to be watched by the police are creepy judgmental people like you. Spreading that kind of shit hurts people more than simply playing an eroge on your own.
Perspective (Score:4, Informative)
"The right to fantasize, daydream, and drool over violating people and committing crimes? I'm pretty sure I missed that right when reading the constitution."
The right to breathe isn't in the US Constitution either, but people have the right to do it. Lawmakers decide what people can't legally do, however they don't list everything that a person can legally do. The probable reason for the right to fantasise about crime being absent from the Constitution is that its authors couldn't comprehend the existence of a society where people tried to dictate what others could fantasise about.
"Things that depict abuse."
Violence and other abuses are frequently depicted in video games, on TV, etc. The UK media recently showed images of a baby who had been beaten to death by his parents.
Millions of African children die each year from a lack of food and water, however you seem to be more concerned about people who play video games where depictions of non-existent people are harmed. Please stop trying to dress prudism as a genuine concern for childrens' welfare.
Re:They should ban with our laws... (Score:3, Informative)
Just remember which country occupied Japan about, oh, sixty-four years ago or so, and dictated a constitution.
women are so frequently groped (Score:3, Informative)
on trains that they've taken to running female only trains
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car [wikipedia.org]
Re:Protect the innocent! (Score:3, Informative)
That being said, I'd say "rape simulator" rates right up there with "torture for dummies" as something that really doesn't need to exist. On the other hand, I'm loath to suggest censorship in even such an extreme case - I'm of the opinion that the act of censorship is generally worse than the thing being censored. So in this case I'm torn...
Why do people keep referring to it as a 'rape simulator'? I think it's really just pornographic material that involves rape.
Hell, even in the US you have cheesy professional porn involving porn stars being 'raped'. And I'm sure everyone has encountered the usual Japanese hentai with a storyline that features some guy getting revenge on a chick by raping her, or whatnot. It's a fairly common theme.
RapeLay is the same - it just follows the storyline of a guy who gets pissed off at some girl, so goes and rapes her family, and they end up enjoying it and becoming his sex pets, or whatnot. You don't really do much in raping so much as following the so called 'plot', and then right clicking in the sex scenes about what you want to do.
I dunno, it just sounds like TFA and comments are making it out as a lot more 'vile' than it really is.
~Jarik
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:4, Informative)
A lot of people here seem to be saying that drawn Japanese porn or Japanese porn in general is mostly rape, but they (and you) are all quite wrong. It's certainly popular, but the majority (and it's a very large majority) is still very much consensual.
As for the ban, it's a half-assed ban by a voluntary industry organization. It will affect absolutely nothing at all (besides getting people to back off) and likely won't lead to any sort of real action at all.
Re:Morals and all that jazz (Score:3, Informative)
That being said, I think his argument rests more on a "It's not right, but self-censorship like this may just be human nature" kind of nature. Again, I don't really think I buy that, since I think nature can be overcome, and his argument strikes me as a fix the symptoms, not the problem, kind of solution.
I guess ultimately this is a question of "How far does the freedom of speech go?" Obviously in the US we have already restricted violent speech, and speech attempting to cause panic (such as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre with no fire). While J.S. Mills would argue that we shouldn't ban speech/expressions because of their morally repugnant nature, are there any other side effects that we should consider? I'm inclined to say yes, because we probably will never know everything about sociology, but I oppose bans like this because I feel that limiting expression is generally more damaging than whatever that expression could've been.
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, everyone fails to mention that Japan has the lowest rape rate per capita in the world. Perhaps it has something to do with the availability of such materials to quench the urge of would be rapists?
I thought the same thing, too. At first. Then I looked a little deeper: Far more likely is endemic bias [warwick.ac.uk] in the system, both in reporting and in prosecuting cases:
and
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:3, Informative)
So you want me to write a full article with references on every slashdot post?
I've worked with a Japanese company for over 8 years and have been to Japan a few times over the years. In addition I keep up on Japanese culture and news (I've studied the language as well). My roommate lived there for two years and I've talked to him about this before.
Here are links if you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frotteurism [wikipedia.org]
"Crowded trains are a favourite location for chikan and chijo, and a 2001 survey conducted in two Tokyo high-schools revealed that more than 70% of the students had been groped on them."
As for the prevalence of the school girl fetish just try looking at almost any hentai (or go to Japan sometime).
Here's an anecdotal link (there's plenty more if you want) written by a woman of Japanese descent raised in America visiting Japan:
http://www.nwasianweekly.com/2009/28_13/pages/travel_japan.html [nwasianweekly.com]
Now, don't get me wrong. I like Japan and Japanese people and like visiting Japan. But they have a long ways to go before they have anything like the gender equality here in the US (they are making progress though).
Re:I know what's gonna happen now (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, everyone fails to mention that Japan has the lowest rape rate per capita [nationmaster.com] in the world.
Besides the potential gender bias that other commentors have mentioned, it should also be noted that crime statistics in Japan should be taken with a very large grain of salt. This news article [latimes.com] from a couple years ago talks about how many deaths which were obvious murders were classified as things like "heart disease" to make police statistics look better:
Photos of the teenager's corpse show a deep cut on his right arm, horrific bruising on his neck and chest. His face is swollen and covered with cuts. A silhouette of violence runs from the corner of his left eye over the cheekbone to his jaw, and his legs are pocked with small burns the size of a lighted cigarette.
But police in Japan's Aichi prefecture saw something else when they looked at the body of Takashi Saito, a 17-year-old sumo wrestler who arrived at a hospital in June. The cause of death was "heart disease," police declared. ...
But Saito's case has given credence to complaints by a group of frustrated doctors, former pathologists and ex-cops who argue that Japan's police culture is the main obstacle.
Police discourage autopsies that might reveal a higher homicide rate in their jurisdiction, and pressure doctors to attribute unnatural deaths to health reasons, usually heart failure, the group alleges. Odds are, it says, that people are getting away with murder in Japan, a country that officially claims one of the lowest per capita homicide rates in the world. ...
Japan's annual police report says its officers made arrests in 96.6% of the country's 1,392 homicides in 2005.
But Saikawa, who says he became disillusioned by "fishy" police practices and in 1997 left the force in disgust after 30 years, claims that police try to avoid adding homicides to their caseload unless the identity of the killer is obvious. "All the police care about is how they look to people; it's all PR to show that their capabilities are high," Saikawa says. "Without autopsies they can keep their percentage [of solved cases] high. It's all about numbers."...