New York to Implement an 'Amazon Tax' 411
theodp writes "NY Governor David Paterson is expected to sign a bill requiring online retailers to collect sales taxes on purchases shipped to the state, even if they have no operations or employees working there. The so-called 'Amazon tax', which applies to Internet retailers who derive sales through affiliate programs, would end what for many New Yorkers had been tax-free shopping and generate an estimated $50M in revenue this fiscal year. Experts predict that other states could follow suit with similar provisions."
they can pass it all they want... (Score:5, Insightful)
but I repeat myself (Score:5, Insightful)
As much as I hate taxes . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:they can pass it all they want... (Score:5, Insightful)
Relevant sections of the constitution state:
"The Congress shall have Power To
"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."
Pretty much sounds like states can't make me pay a tax when passing goods from one state to another, right? Yet states have somehow subverted this by declaring it a 'use' tax, not a 'sales' tax. They claim that they are not taxing the sale of the item, but rather, the use of the item in their state. This would almost be a plausible argument, except for two tiny problems:
1. The use tax rate is the exact same as the sales tax rate.
2. The use tax only applies to all items used in a state, but ONLY items brought in from another state.
If this were a REAL use tax, every item 'used' in the state would be subject to it. The use tax is so obviously nothing more than an interstate tax by a different name. And the courts, almighty protectors of our constitutional rights, have gone along with this bullshit argument.
Let your government know what you want (Score:2, Insightful)
Did you ask to be taxed more? No? Well, your politicians seem to be confused. Please set them straight.
Remember, they are supposed to represent you. It's not as if the government should do whatever it wants to do and you have no say in the situation. It's only that way when you keep quiet.
There's this thing called the Constitution (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:they can pass it all they want... (Score:3, Insightful)
Free Lunch is Over? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't believe it's right to tax us this way however, nor do I think it's truly enforceable at this time since tax rates in various states are so complicated and if this actually passes it will be a big precedent for other states and local governments the follow suit, further complicating the situation.
It will be interesting to watch this play out. Sadly, the American people are gonna have to start paying taxes from somewhere. We have a huge debt and a lot of immediate things the government simply needs to take care of.
Re:but I repeat myself (Score:4, Insightful)
No, seriously. The EU is the ironically more successful implementation of the ideals laid out by our founders. It's missing as firm a constitutional backing, which I imagine will be rectified eventually, but cooperation through the EU combined with shared defense forces through NATO has basically given the exact situation the founders wanted the US to become. A large number of varied states with different philosophies under a shared infrastructure for commerce and dealing with legal issues, with minimal overhead over those member states. And the EU "federal government" is tiny, indeed.
States are facing dropping tax revenue (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:but I repeat myself (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:they can pass it all they want... (Score:3, Insightful)
I suppose that since others have committed murder before, It's okay if I go out and kill someone.
Re:they can pass it all they want... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:TAXED TO DEATH (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it is precisely because the government spends way too much money. If our government spent less, there would be less need for taxes.
As a practical matter, it is always going to be difficult as a matter of practicality to tax the rich, or the corporations for their "fair share", as the more you raise taxes, the more profitable using offshore tax havens, etc. become.
Corporations, for example, must be able to deduct business expenses. If you don't, any business with razor-thin profit margins (a good thing, competition) would be bankrupt. A 5% flat tax would be wonderful for my software company with 95%+ margins, but "unfair" (and lethal) to someone making 1-5% doing manufacturing. They would have to raise their rates, making it difficult to compete with imports, requiring more taxation on imported goods to maintain a "level" playing field.
So, it's relatively easy for modern businesses to structure relationships with other companies (not in the US) by licensing technology (for a hefty fee), borrowing money, etc. Payments can go into trust funds, foundations, etc. outside US jurisdiction. To stop these kinds of games, you would need to ban:
- owning, managing, and receiving payments from foreign corporations
- banking by private citizens using banks located outside the United States
- ownership of US corporations by foreign corporations and vice-versa
- prior approval by the US government for all business transactions between US companies and foreign companies, in order to ensure that all contracts are "fair", and not allowing money to be funneled outside the US
- use of foreign-based prepaid debit cards/gift cards, and purchase of us-based cards by foreign nationals and corporations
Even if all this did happen, unscrupulous people would simply conspire with those outside the United States to act fronts. Long story short - the more you attempt to raise taxes on these people, the more profitable it is to be a "tax cheat", and the less revenue you actually bring in.
Besides, I don't know about you, but I'd rather not live in a world like that. On the other hand, reducing spending by the government would go a long way towards fixing budget problems. How about starting with the illegal/unconstitutional ones?
That being said, the simpler and easier the tax code is, the harder it is to dodge taxes. The problem isn't the rich, it's the insane inefficiency and incredible waste of government. A simple straightforward sales tax applied to imports and domestic sales (with a prebate to avoid screwing over the poor) would eliminate most loopholes, practically eliminate the need for the IRS (saving a decent amount of money), and save so much time and effort it's scary.
No "tax day", as your taxes are always paid. No itemization, no deductions, no worrying about whether this is an acceptable business expense.
Re:they can pass it all they want... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. If we place any value on the rule of law, amending the constitution is the proper response, not ignoring (or reinterpreting) it.
Do you think they ever conceived that people would be able to buy everything they needed, easily from another state?
This has always been feasible for people who live near the borders. Not so much for others.
Nonsense (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:they can pass it all they want... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Free Lunch is Over? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you honestly believe, even for a moment, that one cent of this additional revenue will go towards debt?
No, it will go to fund new programs, which will then incur even more debt, of course. It will pad and line the pockets of industries that do not exist yet, further complicating the problem.