$1.5B Fine Overturned For Microsoft 134
ddrichardson writes "Following up on an earlier story, Microsoft's $1.5bn fine in the case with Alcatel-Lucent has been overturned. Microsoft are claiming a "victory for consumers". From the article: 'A US court has overturned a decision ordering Microsoft to pay phone firm Alcatel-Lucent $1.52bn (£777m) for infringing music patents. The federal judge in San Diego reversed a jury's decision which had ruled that Microsoft's Media Player software infringed on two Alcatel patents.'"
A good thing for the software industry (Score:5, Insightful)
It wouldn't take many cases like this to start a financial recession in the entire software industry and send venture capitalists scurrying away from any software startup.
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Still let me be an optimist and hope that in the long run at least, the amount of new useless patents will diminish with all the recent victories of common sense.
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Still let me be an optimist and hope that in the long run at least, the amount of new useless patents will diminish with all the recent victories of common sense.
Why even say more than this? The previous paragraph just reads like nonsense. How many lawyers represented each side? How many interns did each have? Dollar for dollar, what did each company spend on the legalities? You don't really know any of this. The very weight of the evidence may be enough, sometimes. Geesh.
/. articles that come down the pipe end up going to IIS hosted sites when anyone who actually gave a shit would have used an Apache p
Keep on hating M$, while blind to the fact that most of the AP
No, Patents Suck Because of This. (Score:4, Insightful)
This case had ramifications WAY beyond any hassle for MS. Such a sizeable and far-reaching ruling over a couple of obscure patents would have sent a shockwave through the software industry--scaring the hell out of developers and encouraging the patent trolls even more.
This is really more of the same arbitrary justice that make software patents a bad idea in the first place. M$ can and does use the same threats anyway. Their prowess in court only strengthens their position as lord and master. Business method and software patents cover things that are not really inventions, so the results will always be arbitrary and manipulable. The court has decided to promote business rather than justice and such decisions have favored M$ more than once. On these grounds, M$ will violate the patents of other with impunity while threatening everyone else with ruinous legal costs.
What you have to understand is that M$ itself is a patent troll. Almost all of their software has come from predatory acquisitions but the market has dried up because people are no longer willing to risk their money in the business where M$ can crush them. You must have noticed that all of the innovative companies, Google, Wikipedia, Facebook and others are all using gnu/linux and avoiding the desktop in order to make money. M$ has built themselves a patent warchest to assail those businesses, and has been instrumental in setting up business method and other stupid patents. Others have taken advantage of the situation, but that does not make M$ any less culpable.
No additional certainty has been added to the market that can benefit anyone. The case is far from settled but it has already cost both companies boatloads of money. Only the largest companies could weather that kind of storm and this will keep investors and small companies out of the business.
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On that list are IBM, Linspire and Sun. The original decision was bad for everyone, though it obviously didn't knock you off your pedestal.
Yes, It's bad for everyone. (Score:3, Insightful)
On that list are IBM, Linspire and Sun. The original decision was bad for everyone, though it obviously didn't knock you off your pedestal.
I fail to see how that makes software patents good for anyone or that there is any justice to their administration. It does make current advocates of software patents look foolish.
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Under the current system, this decision is good for everyone. Is it really that hard to read what I wrote?
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Oh and for the record, I argue it is YOU who is the unwitting Microsoft shill. Your extremist arguments are easy to refute
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Hopefully the same thing will happen in that stupid touchscreen keyboard troll case.
Patent trolls can suck it.
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Your churlish use of "M$" obviates any intelligent conversation we could be having about this.
Ah, so like a M$ rep, using a hypocritical insult to promise what they can't deliver.
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No, this has nothing to do with why patents suck.. (Score:1)
This is really more of the same arbitrary justice that make software patents a bad idea in the first place
How so? MS paid Fraunhoffer for the patents (as did the rest of the tech industry) which were co-developed by Fraunhoffer, Alcatel-Lucent, AT&T. If Fraunhoffer was not the right authority to license these patents, Alcatel should have sued them for falsely representing themselves as such. That makes sense, and that's the nutshell version of what the Judge ruled.
Their prowess in court only strengthens their position as lord and master.
Your hatred of MS is blinding your objectivity, and even your desire to seek the truth. MS adopted patents as a defensive strategy (see this
M$ patent truth. (Score:2)
MS adopted patents as a defensive strategy (see this 1991 memo from Bill Gates .... [insipid praise of M$] ... The honesty of his stance and clarity of vision is something his critics here should take note of.
I have taken note of M$'s use of patents as a weapon:
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I have taken note of M$'s use of patents as a weapon
Taking notes is fine, but understanding them is important too. All your links prove my point:
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What you have to understand is that M$ itself is a patent troll. Almost all of their software has come from predatory acquisitions but the market has dried up because people are no longer willing to risk their money in the business where M$ can crush them. You must have noticed that all of the innovative companies, Google, Wikipedia, Facebook and others are all using gnu/linux and avoiding the desktop in order to make money. M$ has built themselves a patent warchest to assail those businesses, and has been instrumental in setting up business method and other stupid patents. Others have taken advantage of the situation, but that does not make M$ any less culpable.
The rest of your post is mostly just noise (some truth, some not, but hard to tell the difference) but this is just incorrect.
For a start, Microsoft has only ever used patents as a threat. Never have they actually sued anyone over one. That said, the OIN does the same thing - it's called Sabre-rattling. It frightens other companies (whether it's an ethically sound practice or not is entirely your perception. To me, it's not).
It should be noted that Google itself is doing very similar things. It defini
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A ringing endorsement from the usual AC losers:
It's no wonder that even the pro-Linux posters here hate you. You drag them down by association.
As usual, the AC is not "pro-Linux". Asking the AC to understand free software [fsf.org] is almost hopeless. Such clueless hatred along with the usual M$ PR drones, who have great memories when it comes to tracking and troubling me, means I must have said something right. Thanks AC!
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My AC friend has more fun, I mean "steaming bullcrap":
I'm pretty sure Microsoft have better things to do than troll a Linux website waiting for you to show your face only to - and this is the most horrible part of all - disagree with you?!
I think they have better things to do too. M$ has been trolling news groups forever and their time and money did not show up in Vista [slashdot.org]. They do seem to have fastened a large part of someone's time to me personally, which is flattering in a way - I'm getting something o
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They praise M$, insult "competitors", crapflood where they can, and harass genuine conversation.
So, basically, just like you do regarding "free software", Linux and the like ?
This raises an important question. Who's paying you ?
SOOOO much effort (Score:2)
Watch in amazement as the power of the Slashcode Engine provides anybody who gives a fuck with a complete history of every word you've ever posted in this forum.
I get a kick out of this sort of thing. Imagine a summer intern at some M$ PR firm having to read and make a report on all 7000+ plus Twitter comments. If you credit me with eris posts, I'm a member of the ten thousand club. Keep reading! You get 15 minutes to crap, 30 minutes for lunch and must be here between 8AM and 8PM to earn your five f
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It is too funny for words that someone would go through your comment history to find posts they don't like - so why did you do it to me?
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Yes because if it wasn't overturned then one of these might be next when Alcatel runs out of money: http://mp3licensing.com/licensees/index.asp [mp3licensing.com]
Re:A good thing for the software industry (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, that's exactly what needs to happen in order for the Powers That Be(TM) to realize that the patent system is way broken. A few big companies paying through the nose to patent trolls will be the wake-up call to Congress. Then maybe, just maybe, method patents can be abolished.
I can almost hear the conversation.... (Score:4, Funny)
This Bill G. calling, yes, that Bill G.
I was browsing a bit into our files and reports and I happened upon a funny browser history forwarded to me by ehh... someone in my team.
You know what ? When thinking about the term "Dwarf Tossing" i would think of dimly illuminated pubs with a midget in a footbal gear. I had to turn my monitor 90 to really understand what the pictures wer...
Ah, yes, yes, I understand, it is late and you have a judgement to overturn early tomorrow, yes, better I let you work now, sorry for disturbing. Bye"
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The overturn is not good for those of us who own this stock.
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You're in the wrong place to be talking about how you bought stock in a company based on it's desire to litigate over software patents (a touchy subject as it is) they have n
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Software should not have patents. Software is nothing but mathematics and since math is freely taught you can't patent it. If it could be patented then everyone would have to pay someone for the right to learn in sc
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Prepare to be assimilated. Microsoft will add your technological and biological distinctiveness to its own. Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been... is over.
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Re:A good thing for the software industry (Score:5, Funny)
Five digit id, username CTalkobt
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I'd be willing to bet that your first computer operated at >1GHz, although there is nothing wrong with being young - it just means that you have lots more chaff to look forward to.
There are only 100,000 five digit Slashdot numbers.
Shame, eigh!
Trull
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You don't need anything faster than the ZX81's 3.25MHz processor with a full complement of 1Kb of RAM.
http://oldcomputers.net/zx81.html [oldcomputers.net]
Read that and weep.
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Although I must admit that I had the 16k expansion cartridge for mine.
There's nothing like having to turn the screen off to make calculations run faster
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Mine always had the tendency to spontaneously combust if you bumped them a little bit and they broke contact with the socket. Then it was back to the glory of 1K.
Let's not forget the magnificent storage on compact casettes, that would then never load again.
I still have my ZX81. Somewhere. I think it is in one of the cupboards under a pile of crap.
*sigh* Those were the days...
One final thought on this one: Did you buy Kit or Assembled?
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I had the same problems with bumping it....
Mine was assembled when I received it, but I'm not actually sure how I came into possession of it - I was somewhere between 8 and 10 at the time.
I think my grandfather may have given it to me (he used to be an electrical engineer, and playing with technology was his favourite hobby).
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There are actually 90,000 5-digit IDs (in any ID system where IDs can't start with 0). The IDs below 10000 are >= 4 digits.
And while my UID is fairly high, the first computer I can remember the processor speed of (actually my second or third) was a 333mhz.
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The screws holding Microsoft's moral compass together may be loose but to lose your comments here at
I think he meant as in "let loose". Like as in "release". Like... eh, whatever
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Never thought I'd see myself typing this.... (Score:2, Funny)
Ho Hum (Score:5, Insightful)
Any time that a patent troll, anywhere, is defeated, its a victory for all, not just consumers. More judges need to rule that software patents of the obvious are unconstitutional (i think it was covered by the suffrage amendment) so that slashdot can return to reporting on google and the iphone instead of these patent stories.
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Well, I hate to say, there was a time where Slashdot was really about "news for nerds, stuff that (doesn't) matter (all that much but we love it)". I guess the nerds have become working professionals, supporting families, concerned with their mortgages and 401Ks, because it's been literally years since Slashdot has stopped being funny, insightful or interesting. I mean sure, regularly there's the occasional good story, but it's nowhere near as
Re:Ho Hum (Score:4, Insightful)
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You must have missed the story about patent trolling against the iPhone.
Sure. (Score:3, Insightful)
More judges need to rule that software patents of the obvious are unconstitutional (i think it was covered by the suffrage amendment) so that slashdot can return to reporting on google and the iphone instead of these patent stories.
It would be a great thing to eliminate business method and software patents. Until that happens, the costs of them should be shouted from the rooftops. Cool gadgets are not hard to make, but the business is impossible because of crap like this. M$ is the bad guy because th
Who to cheer for? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not a case of "Microsoft VS Patent Troll,"
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I'm not sure Alcatel-Lucent is what most people would call a patent troll. They tried to take advantage of a broken system to the tune of 1.5 billion dollars. If the money is on the table it is not easy to resist. This is the same behavior that you might see from any company that sees that amount of money is possible by spending
I think this is probably a GOOD thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Prolly good for us as well.
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I'd say that when it comes to patents, M$ is pretty fair player (in M$ish sense of word "fair"): they did spread some FUD, but didn't sue anyone.
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Sorry thats a myth.
Microsoft hat threatend to sue several players for software patent infringments by sending their laywers after them.
Since open source developers have no money to defend themselves with people like the creator of VirtualDub has been forced to remove support for Microsoft video formats from VirutalDub.
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While it was a legal "win" for Microsoft, it's hardly a win in normal terms. They spent a lot of money defending themselves against a frivolous patent lawsuit and while that is a drop in the bucket compared to what they make, it would only be a true win if Alcatel-Lucent were made to pay up for bringing it in the first place. As long as Alcatel-Lucent can keep doing this, and I'm not sure how deep their pockets are, this is not over by a long shot. Microsoft needs to push to try and recoup legal fees, thoug
hmm. (Score:3, Insightful)
However, if this means I can still use my MP3 player then I guess its not all bad.
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You Americans. 'As long as I get what I want I'm OK with ________.'
It's not your opinions that amaze and piss off the world, it's your reasoning behind them.
I agree Americans can be like that. I, however, am British.
Also, look at the facts. Two large firms are suing each other in a case that might impact MP3 players. Whilst I am by no means not a MS fanboy - in fact I would not shed a tear if they were to lose
Re:hmm. (Score:4, Insightful)
Moreover, what else are we supposed to think? As long as you get what you want, I'm OK with ____?
Self-interest is not only a fundamental feature of human nature, it's a perfectly rational way of approaching the world. If you don't like the fact that someone (in this case, not an American, as it turns out) is OK with this because his MP3 player will be protected, rather than complaining that he shouldn't want an MP3 player, maybe you should try to explain why he should want something else.
Bitching that someone wants something isn't helpful. Maybe if you explained why his MP3 player isn't worth the price that's being paid, it would be helpful. Most people are open to new information.
One must base one's opinions on something, and personal satisfaction is a good start. I fail to see why there's some moral imperative for me to be miserable, absent evidence that my personal satisfaction is harmful to someone else (or, even, my own longer-term satisfaction).
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There are also some things called principles and doctrines. If everyone stops giving a damn about them, this world will end up a different place.
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My problem with the statement was that it implies that I'm somehow ethically bankrupt because I'm an American who wants his MP3 player to work. I don't buy into that; it's crap. If the AC wants to explain how my working MP3 player causes harm to society, the economy, the rule of law, whatever, tha
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Interesting point of view. I must say that I completely ________ with your opinion, you ________. In fact, if I could I would ________ your ________ until ________. So I beg you to ________ or ________.
And one further addendum: ________. Do we have an agreement?
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--
You will be assimilated
Fine? or Judgement? (Score:4, Informative)
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It's the EXACT same BS you get on CNN! It is just as ego centric, just as biased, and just as much false information as anything on US TV before Fox News(which of course, got the US back in the lead for biggest amount of BS on a news program).
Worse yet, the interviews they had with world leaders were complete set ups to make one gro
Dupe (Score:1)
At least this dupe is buried under the "read more" link and not as blatant as past dupes.
Victory.... (Score:1)
Since when has Microsoft been an advocate for consumer's rights?
When they got their wrist slapped. (Score:2)
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Why is everyone so apologitic? (Score:4, Insightful)
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So emerged MS. As much as by "right place right time" as anything else. And soon this MS had their software on basically every single user's PC out there.
But alas, MS got caught with their pants down and did not have an OS
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Good decision (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good decision (Score:5, Insightful)
So it's not so cut and dried. There are plenty of things to be for or against in this case.
Making a habit of ignoring juries has far wider implications than just patent trolls.
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How about just ignoring juries' damages awards? Really, I don't know why the US uses this system. It's one thing for a jury to look at a serious criminal case with a good amount of evidence and decide Guilty or Not Guilty (actually that should be Not Proven, but that's another matter), but for them to decide on damages seems ridiculous. They invariably seem to pick ridiculously high figures. Why not leave that to a judg
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So if A rents out B's house without permission for 1 dollar per month to C, then C should be able to pay B 1 dollar per month for the place, after the mistake (that it is B's house, not A's) is discover
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It's more like: 'A' rents out a large community of apartments to 200 customers(http://www.mp3licensing.com/licensees/in dex.asp) for a decade or so for $750/month. Everybody in the world has long acknowledged that 'A' had the rights to rent out that property. Then, out of nowhere, 'B' steps in and claim
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If Alcatel-Lucent do own MP3 patents, then they can start to assert them whenever they want, and at whatever price they want... that is the (stupid) system.
Do they actually own the patents? I don't know. Certainly it does seem like they might not. But if they do, the price they charge for them is up to them.
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Yeah, part of my response was venting against submarine patents. It's almost as if we need a form of adverse possession for patents, where if a company doesn't assert its patent rights after a reasonable period of time they lose the rights to offensively use that patent.
Submarine patents just remove too much choice on the part of the person or compa
It's a victory (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that we should expect MS to do otherwise. We fine them? They fine us.
Wrong (Score:2)
No, they wouldn't. Business aim to charge the most money that the customers are prepared to pay. If Microsoft are able to raise the price of their product and still sell it they would have done it already and made more money.
The extra cost from the fines would have cut into their profits and so it is the shareholders that would be harmed, not the end users.
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If you must purchase a certain company's product in order for your business to survive, you wont pay a fair market price. Market distortion can prevent you from voting with your wallet if it forces you to pay whatever is demanded, lest your business perish. That, my friend, is called monopoly rent.
Now, if you worked from the unquestioned assumption that Microsoft is not a monopoly, what you said could have been re
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A Victory for Consumers (Score:3, Funny)
Patent Thoughts (Score:1)
1. Patents seem to have turned from being a reward, incentive or recognition for inventors and innovation to being a bludgeoning weapon for business. In many ways, the patent system seems to be used as a legalized method to facilitate anti-competitive pra
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But I believe that in order for a patent to be enforceable, the patent holder must:
A. Make a good faith effort to market a product using the technology in question.
AND/OR
B. License the patent at reasonable prices in a timely manner. (That is, no waiting for years for someone else's product that might infringe on your patent to become popular, then popping-up out of nowhere demanding billions.)
C. If a patent holder discovers at a late date that some pop
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Basically, it's like having the house you're renting inherited by the land
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LOL.
The courts are collaborators [catb.org] with obvious evil.