Judge Orders FBI to Release Abuse Records 56
Spamicles writes "A judge has ordered the FBI to release agency records about its abuse of National Security Letters (NSLs) to collect Americans' personal information. The ruling came just a day after the EFF urged the judge to immediately respond in its lawsuit over agency delays. This is the same case in which an internal FBI audit found that the bureau potentially violated the law or agency rules more than 1,000 times while collecting data about domestic phone calls, e-mails and financial transactions in recent years."
Great! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure this'll get results. The current executive branch has been pretty respectful of legislative and judicial checks on its power thus far.
And while I'm at it, I'd really like a pony.
Re:Great! (Score:5, Informative)
Given past practices, I have to say that I agree with that sentiment. I think the chances are good that the administration is just going to ignore the demands.
That's it, yes. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Then again, I sometimes think that I have have cynicism down to an artform. Somehow, though, I still hope it turns out better than I think it will. Go figure.
Re:Great? (Score:2)
I'd say that qualifies more as cynicism than apathy. He's not saying he doesn't care, just that he doesn't think it's going to be actually followed through on.
Given past practices, I have to say that I agree with that sentiment. I think the chances are good that the administration is just going to ignore the demands.
Past practices... 'I can not recall' any past practices...
FWIW, chance has nothing to do with it--its completely intentional. I apologize for being so blunt, but I'm tired of walking on eggshells that are neither red nor blue.
{soapbox} (Assume ethnocentric American remarks when "us" used:) I am cynical about the situation (if I weren't I'd be non-functional), I am not apathetic at all. Its easy to just post or whine about it. Slashbots have proved good about modkilling/promoting the messengers
Re:Great! (Score:5, Informative)
While the above might seem like cynicism, but the truth is that the FBI has been abusing its power for a long, long, time.
in 1971 the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI [wikipedia.org]raided an FBI office and published over 1000 classified FBI documents, revealing domestic political repression campaigns such as Operation [wikipedia.org] Cointelpro [whatreallyhappened.com] A year later the FBI officially terminated the program.
The public outrage led to an official Congressional investigation of the FBI which gave a report in 1976 that had this [icdc.com] to say:
The report goes on to say:
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And look at what a widespread change in the corrupt culture of governance that report effected.
Exactly. I'm not being cynical. I'm just betting the odds.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
The current executive branch has been pretty respectful of legislative and judicial checks on its power thus far.
I hear you there. I doubt this'll actually get anywhere; at least, it won't any time soon.
The real problem isn't that the FBI is unlikely to comply with the judge's order; it is that these sort of issues happen in the first place. What country allows stuff like this? What country shrugs its shoulders when the president pushes the Patriot Act through Congress (not that he had to push very hard)? I hope that 2009 might bring a repeal of this bill, and the reversal of many injustices of the previous ei
For the love of god noooooooooo (Score:5, Funny)
Re:For the love of god noooooooooo (Score:5, Funny)
You mean "Under Pressure"?
Great! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Great! (Score:4, Interesting)
C//
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Great! (Score:4, Insightful)
And who, exactly, would arrest them, huh?
The DOJ? Only if the DOJ were independent of the executive branch. Thanks to GWB, it's not anymore (if it ever was). The DEA? Executive branch. The ATF? Executive branch. The military? Executive branch.
The court's power is enforced through the executive branch. If the executive branch decides it wants to ignore the court, what can the court do?
Not a damned thing, that's what.
He who controls the guns controls everything. Power over life and death is the ultimate power. The executive branch has that. The judicial branch does not.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Someone with a gun can take away the press from its owner, but the reverse isn't as true. That said, as long as the guy with the gun answers to the guy with the press, the guy with the press wins. That's the situation we have right now, and the only reason it remains that way is that we hold elections. If the elections stop, all bets are off.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I believe that responsibility would then rest with the U.S. Marshals.
From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
and
Re: (Score:1)
From the same Wikipedia link [wikipedia.org] you referred to:
In other words, the executive branch. So my statement unfortunately still stands. :-(
Excellent points, Courageous poster (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
To add to that, if the president were found guilty of a crime and sentenced to immediate impeachment, removal, and imprisonment... who would carry out the order to do so? The police? The military?
Who is going to follow the orders of a judge over those of the FBI, or others in power?
Good. (Score:1)
obligatory (Score:1, Funny)
It's just a matter of time. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's just a matter of time. (Score:4, Insightful)
We know that there are records of this activity by the FBI. Now it is just a matter of time until these records come to light. The beauty of computers and email and automatic logging is that this administrations actions will be very difficult to hide. It's really amazing that the FBI and other Gov't agencies went hog-wild on peoples civil rights, and that they thought somehow that this was OK, that they would get away with it. How blind to the future consequences of their actions are these people? Seriously it's like watching the stooges play gov't.
Well, they felt that they had fixed the process enough that they had a "permanent majority" starting about 6 years ago. Fixed via either hosting sessions with DOJ and other Government officials on how they can do their part to fix elections, or getting easily edited digital election machines, or just restricting our rights to the point that we can't do shit to stop them.
Ergo, why bother holding back anymore? They are "The Government" (Tm), now and forever, right? Right?
I fear we're going to find all too many abuses of power in the upcoming decades. I've heard tell of us using White Phosphorous as a chemical weapon on civilians in Iraq, of using siege tactics on civilian cities, of all sorts of horrid crap that the US Media just won't acknowledge -- but is easily available information in the European and Asian news.
Well, until the Democrats take full control in 2009 -- then suddenly the suddenly reformed US Media will "discover" all this bad stuff, just in time to find an excuse to blame it on President Obama.
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
The government they deserve. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. The danger of the expanding executive power occurring during this administration are not limited to how much Bush can abuse power. These new powers will be available to the next president, Democratic or Republican. And the next, and the next, and every future president of this country, unless these powers are specifically taken awa
The judge... (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Why the delay in turning over the records? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
how can their possibly be _so_many_ terrorists? (Score:4, Insightful)
And criminals! With 2,186,230 in jail and thousands investigated without due process, Americans are either the most criminal or the most oppressed people on this earth.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
What the Guys at the FBI just heard (Score:3, Funny)
Paraphrasing President Jackson... (Score:1, Interesting)