Pentagon Creating A Database Of Students 1014
needacoolnickname writes "The Washington Post is reporting that the Pentagon is working with a marketing firm to create a database of students ages 16 through college to help them identify recruits. A little chuckle from the Pentagon in the article: '...anyone can opt out of the system by providing detailed personal information that will be kept in a separate suppression file. That file will be matched with the full database regularly to ensure that those who do not wish to be contacted are not, according to the Pentagon.'"
You are expendable pawns. (Score:5, Insightful)
to create a database of students ages 16 through college to help them identify recruits.
It will start similar to "Student A has a rich family, pass. Ahh.. Student B is lower-middle class, offer Student B a scholarship attached to a term in the Reserves." and end with "Draft Student B."
1992 Called.... (Score:1, Insightful)
New World Order (Score:5, Insightful)
Just when I think our society can't get any more Orwellian [wikipedia.org], we see this:
It's a hat-trick of privacy violation.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, too...soon this will be expanded to all americans eligible for military service...then all americans, period. Refusing to submit your info for this database will automatically label you as a dissident, although what with the new national IDs coming out, you'll be in that database whether you like it or not.
Welcome to the New World Order.
(P.S.: Here's a link [epic.org] to the various privacy advocates' letter to the Pentagon referenced in the article.)
Opt out (Score:5, Insightful)
dom
This costs money... I don't want to pay for it (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe the government could get more recruits if they didn't sound like such a fascist organization:
"You believe in America. Strength. Integrity. Dedication. Making a difference for the nation.
This is from a job posting for the DIA. The kind of people that would be attracted to this are the kind of sheeple that would ignore the non-existance of WMDs in official reports.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:2, Insightful)
What nonsense. Rich kids join the military all the time (although usually as officers). Military experience is seen as an asset if you're planning to become politically active. Notice how much of a hot-button the issue was in Clinton, Bush, and Kerry's respective campaigns. While it's difficult to project the value of a military career out into the next generation of politicians, it has certainly helped both past and present office-runners.
Re:New World Order (Score:2, Insightful)
To opt out, you give them all of the information they need. The 16-17 year olds don't even have much of a say on this. I just turned 18, so at least I can annoy my Rep and Senator about it.
This war on terror isn't going to end, even if the war on personal freedom succeeds.
Draft needed for upcoming Iran invasion. (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, Iran is not like Iraq. Iraq was a very splintered social and religious community, while Iran is far more coherent. Iran is well armed. Considering how poorly the Americans have fared in Iraq, Iran is out of the question for anyone with half a mind. Unfortunately, such people are not at the helm of the United States.
I'm praying for all the American youth who may get mislead into dying in some desert battlefields in third-world nations.
My how things have changed (Score:4, Insightful)
- I didn't have a social security number
- I didn't have a driver's license
- I certainly didn't have any credit cards
But I did have a:- Savings account. Paper passbook. I imagine that all the numbers were in some computer somewhere but it sure wasn't networked with anything else.
- Student info folder at school. All the grades etc. were kept track of by secretaries and typewriter.
- Selective Service registration (I turned 18 my senior year).
The place where I did finally interface with some national databases was when I took the PSAT's. All of a sudden a bazillion colleges were sending me mail. (No, not E-mail!)Of course, now all my kids got Social Security numbers at birth. If you don't get them one, you can't use them as a deduction...!
Every Army Recruiter Already Has A Database (Score:3, Insightful)
It's called (or was called ca 1993 - 1997) a "P-card" (Prospect card)
A P-card is what that poor bastard uses when he calls you or your slacker kid every freakin' night of the week, trying to get the two "sits" (appointments) his staion commander told him he had to get before he could go home for the night.
P-card databases are built from a variety of automated and non-automated sources. The armed forces have bought mailing lists targeting the male 18-24 year group for years. Recruiters also use high school year books, phone books, mailing lists provided by schools, and the ASVAB test you took to get out of PE for the day, and other students to build their P-card database.
The Penatagon building another database is redundant as any recruiter will tell you. Most of the leads it will generate will likely be useless, but recuriters will be forced to refine them, adding more work to an already never-ending day on the bag.
I imagine many army recruiters are wishing they were in Iraq right now instead of cold-calling people with little to no interest in volunteering to serve in the military.
At least in Iraq they get to shoot back at the bastards.
This is not new . (Score:5, Insightful)
Plastic Army Men
----------------
Remember the great deals on plastic Army men that you could get on the back covers of comic books? This was back in the early '70's. My friend and his brother weren't satisified with their "one per customer" offer, so they made up a bunch of fake siblings with silly names and sent orders it their name.
About 10 years later, the brothers were getting a ton of military recruiting junk mail. As were their fake siblings...
Riflery Team
------------
I was a member of the Riflery team in high school, circa 1981. I lived in a pretty liberal place at the time.
At on practice, I looked down at the bucket of spent
I asked the teacher-coach. He looked at me funny, and said: "The Army pays for the bullets".
It took me a second to absorb this, and I asked what the Army was getting back in return. The teacher-coach said: "Your target scores".
Now, my parents hadn't agreed to that, and neither did I. I quit that day, not wanting to be "special need" drafted as a sniper.
jh
Re:Not Meeting Recruiting Goals = Desperation (Score:1, Insightful)
By stopping all their stupid wars, duh! That, and stopping to call themselves silly names like "world power" and "leaders of freedom and democracy". Give us a fucking break, 20th century called and they want their cold war back.
Nothing New (Score:1, Insightful)
Huh? You mean like this [sss.gov]? Man, Americans don't know shit about how their own government works. No wonder why you freaked out like you did. Ignorance leads to fear and all that.
Look, for whatever reason, the military was unable to get this info from the SSS, they had to go to a marketing firm in order to solicit their own citizens. Christ on a cracker, you think this is Orwellian? Military service was mandatory for a very long time in the US. It's mandatory in a huge number of countries, many of which you'd probably even consider liberal democracies.
Re:the draft (Score:1, Insightful)
Not likely. Drafts aren't as easy to obtain now as they were in the 1960s. The president can request a draft but Congress has the final word on whether or not a draft will be in effect.
With that said, you have to keep in mind one thing. Humans love cushy jobs. And from what I understand about being a congressman, it is a pretty cushy job. You know go travel, get paid a (at least) six figure income, and do a vote every once in a while just to make it look like to the people that you are actually doing something.
So if todays Congress decides to pass a draft, you can bet on them not keeping their cushy jobs for every long afterwards.
There is not going to be a draft (Score:4, Insightful)
Committing to a draft would actually hurt the military more than help. A dramatic increase in personnel would strain existing logistical resources and money allotted to the department of defense. There would have to be a extreme increase in military funding before any drafting would occur.
Re:your infosec on file (Score:3, Insightful)
you can call : 1-888-5-OPTOUT to get out of this, there is a website, they give it to you in the phone number, i did it 3 months ago, i barely get any now (tehy have to work you out of the system, some places have purchased your info from the credit bureaus like 3-4 months ago)
http://www.ftc.gov/privacy/protect.htm [ftc.gov]
Impressive... (Score:5, Insightful)
But that was deep past in the totalitarian communist era. Today it would be illegal to keep such data for any reason. What's exactly going on in the USA??? Is it a precursor to conscription?
Perspective of a US Marine (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:1, Insightful)
Clinton - dodger. two-termer
Bush Jr. - dodger*. two-termer
Kerry - decorated war hero.
Gore - served.
Bush Sr. - decorated war hero(?) One termer.
* Family connections got him into (at the time) Texas Toy Army. Then never fulfilled his commitment.
Re:In Soviet America... (sorry, couldn't resist) (Score:2, Insightful)
Ignore the fact that it's the same plan that Our Glorious Leader had Five Years ago
Re:Well, Duh. (Score:2, Insightful)
If the war is "unpopular with the majority of Americans", it won't go on.
Simply because you, or even most of Slashdot, don't like the war, doesn't mean that's the way most of the country feels.
Personally,
1) while I feel that some of the details of the original plan have become confused, the overall effort is good, and
2) I have friends in Iraq that are glad to be there, because they have a sense of national pride, and a commitment to something other more than themselves.
Don't apply your opinion to the rest of America.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:2, Insightful)
Not likely. Can you see your local Colege Republicans running off to fight the war that they cheer? Have you seen any of the War Pundits, War Preachers, or War Politicians ask for all of their able-bodied supporters to enlist? No, you won't, because they're chickenhawks who want others to die for a plank of their party's platform (the War on Terra). Therefore, the ones to fight and die will continue to be almost exclusively lower to middle class with no particular religious affiliation.
Must be fun to be an American Now (Score:2, Insightful)
This is getting sadder and sadder. It seems that the American ppl keep on loosing their freedom and right to privacy every time.
It seems that the US be becoming a big brother policed state funded by Greedy Corporations.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrible.
We do want patriotic people in the armed forces. But we need people who are bright, can understand local politics and react intelligently to the nasty tactical issues urban combat involves.
Alternatives? (Score:3, Insightful)
Any organization which advertises attempts to reach the target most narrowly suited to the message being generated (in this case, preferable to military service). So what is scary about this? What is wrong about this?
Are you arguing that the military shouldn't recruit? If so, are you further arguing that the military shouldn't exist?
If the military should exist and should recruit, what is the problem with the military using the same techniques that every private organization from CocaCola to MoveON uses?
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One step beyond.. (Score:5, Insightful)
The fake diploma thing is downright dishonest, but I've had employers tell me before a drug test "just drink a whole lot of gatorade a few days before and take a b12 tablet the day of the test". It's not like the kid was a crackhead, and these folks figured, probably rightly, that the army might clean him up.
Before shipping him off to get him killed for the commander-in-chief's personal vendetta of course.
By the way, it'd lead to less stories. They'll be able to screen out those pesky journalists. Word to the wise student: take journalism.
Re:the draft (Score:2, Insightful)
In addition, standoff weapons, drones, robot warfare, and other systems will greatly reduce the size of force required to terrorize the planet.
Draconian (Score:5, Insightful)
I went from a 2.4 GPA in highschool to operating a nucleap power plant in two years. When I did finally go to college I was at the top of my class. I credit the Navy for gettign me where I am today.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:5, Insightful)
What nonsense. Rich kids *used* to join during the Vietnam era, mostly in nice safe officer slots when the alternative was risk being drafted.
Safe officer slots? 7,877 officers of all grades from O-1 all the way up to O-8 died in Vietnam. Compare that to ~58,000 KIAs in the war. Officers made up 13.5% of the deaths in the war. I'd suspect that if you go back and research other wars in modern times that the percentage of officers killed/wounded in action is at least equal to if not greater then the percentage of officers in the armed forces overall.
In fact both commissioned and non-commissioned officers are more likely to be targeted by enemy action (especially snipers) then enlisted personal as a leaderless force is much less effective on the field of battle. If you knew anything about the military you'd know that.
You know you can be opposed to the war (Vietnam or Iraq) without putting down the military or the men and women serving in it. I have a whole lot more respect for them then I do for some nameless face running his mouth on Slashdot.
OK... I'll bite (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, whatever you say about the benefits to poor people for joining the military, is it really fair that during wartime our most disadvantaged citizens are the ones who get killed? That's not a very nice option... "Be poor, or risk your life."
Re:OK... I'll bite (Score:5, Insightful)
> serve the country that has provided them with the most freedom and liberty of ANY government in the
> history of man
-nod- This is one of the areas of damage done by the Bush administration that I think doesn't get nearly
enough attention. With the current state of affairs, there is arguably no way for a conscientious American
to serve their country through the military.
When the military is being misused and abused by the civilian leadership in ways that demonstrably
hurt this country and make us less safe, nevermind needlessly sacrificing the soldiers themselves,
what choices is a patriotic American left with in order to serve their country in this way? All I've been
able to come up with is to vote, be politically active, and volunteer for and donate to good organizations
like the Red Cross, the ACLU, BlackBoxVoting.org and Operation Truth.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Well, Duh. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not applying my opinion to the rest of America. I'm deferring to The Gallup Organization [gallup.com].
I'll readily grant that polls aren't perfect--I used to work for a pollster, and I'm well aware of the pitfalls involved in this kind of thing--but I invite you to direct me towards a better metric of American popular opinion. I also invite you to refute the notion that the war in Iraq is losing, not gaining, support.
1) while I feel that some of the details of the original plan have become confused, the overall effort is good
"Some of the details"? We went to Iraq because we were told that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that an attack on the United States was imminent. Which part of that reason turned out to be right?
The overall effort, while rooted in good intentions, has been abysmal. Can you point to a single pre-invasion document or plan for what we would do once we had deposed Hussein and defeated the Iraqi armed forces? What about the disbanding of the Iraqi army--was that a good move? What of the aggressive de-Baathification of Iraq--was that a good move? What of the fact that Iraqis still do not have reliable electricity--is that a good sign? What of the fact that our policy on detainees and interrogation became so muddled and laissez-faire that we ended up with hundreds of documented cases of prisoner abuse and torture at US detention facilities around the world--is that a good thing?
The overall effort is without direction. The overall effort is based on a nebulous concept of how the current administration would like to see American power exercised around the globe. The current plan is, as it has always been, rooted in the basic hope that things will magically right themselves with just a little more perseverance and muscle. While the overall effort is decidedly good--our troops are performing incredibly well under extremely difficult conditions--the actual planning and execution is utterly abysmal. That is what has my hackles up--our leaders sent our finest into a situation that they didn't have any real plan for, beyond "make it all better". That is what disgusts me.
2) I have friends in Iraq that are glad to be there, because they have a sense of national pride, and a commitment to something other more than themselves.
As well they should be proud--they're fighting a noble cause! Ask your friends, though, if they feel like the powers that be know what they're doing. Ask your friends if they know what the road to victory is. Ask your friends how one distinguises friend from foe. You may find that, while they are justifiably proud of what they're doing, they feel some very real trepidation as to where the war is going, and what needs to be done to actually win the war.
The road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions. The simple and infuriating fact is that we're in Iraq with a wonderful, noble goal in mind--but without a plan as to how to get there, because our leaders assumed that the wonderful, noble goal would simply achieve itself once we removed Saddam. It could have worked, if only our leaders had planned for the day after. Now, we'll be genuinely lucky if Iraq doesn't sink into a protracted civil war and the rest of the region doesn't sink further into instability.
How does this not infuriate you?
Re:In other words (Score:3, Insightful)
You say "Military recruiters recognize the more limited future of these kids and that they have something to offer them. Military recruitment is usually a win/win proposition." If we had responsible leaders who used war as a last resort, you might be right. But in the current debacle, it's atrocious the some people justify getting poor Americans to fight a war led by hawkish politicians who won't put themselves or their families in harm's way.
About 1700 young Americans have been killed in action thus far, it shouldn't be only the poorer families be the ones to risk their children's lives in order to have a better future. Do you support these 1700 deaths, along with tens of thousands of cases of physical and psychological injuries, such that other soldiers have a chance to lead a better life?
When you say the military takes care of you, that sentiment is greatly questioned [cbsnews.com] by those in active duty. Where were you stationed during your service, and how many of your fellow soldiers were killed on the front line?
Also due to the current recruiting crisis, military recruiters have resorted to unethical [brenhambanner.com] practices [alternet.org] to get people to enlist. Shouldn't these potential recruits make the decision to join on their own, without pressure from the recruiter?
The current class gap recruiting policies are nothing more than a technique to allow poor soldiers fight a war that the rich politicians support but don't want their own family members fighting in.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:3, Insightful)
> local politics and react intelligently to the nasty tactical issues urban combat involves.
Who in his right mind would moderate this insightful??? The military wants people who can take orders WITHOUT thinking. Officers maybe, but not grunts.
jfs
Re:OK... I'll bite (Score:3, Insightful)
Freedom and liberty are NOT "gifts" from the government, but inalienable rights bestowed by the creator! Governments do NOT serve the interests of man, but their own self-interests! True freedom is defended from government and paid for with the blood of patriots and tyrants!
Love freedom, not government.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:3, Insightful)
the minute they said they believed an invisible man in the sky that manipulated world events?
You're confusing "country" with "political party". (Score:5, Insightful)
No. You're wrong. There is a REASON that this war is BECOMING unpopular.
And tracking kids so the government can pressure them into fighting such a war is the PROBLEM.
No. Look up "Boston Tea Party". Our country was founded upon the belief in certain Rights.
Only recently. Before that, it was because of our vast natural resources and distance from the established armies of the other nations.
You might want to look at the Founding Fathers' views on a standing military.
That sounds a bit too much like "the ends justify the means".
Here's the flaw in that claim.
... but they still don't allow women to vote.
Because some people joined the military and fought and died for Freedom does not mean that everyone who dies in the military furthers Freedom.
Check out Kuwait. We "Freed" them from Iraqi invasion
This "Freedom" thing is a bit tricky, no?
So people who didn't vote for Bush are exempt from this database?
And now you're into "blaming the victim".
Why not just make it illegal for those companies to collect that information on me?
That can mean anything from filing a patent on your new, effective, cold fusion generator to filming your neighbor in the shower.
This is not about "defense of the country". Iraq was no threat to the USofA.
Getting a sample box of Tide == tracking kids to target them for recruitment
Right.
No one "gives" anyone else "Freedom".
And tracking kids is the OPPOSITE of Freedom.
That is correct. But this isn't about forcing them to sign. This is about tracking them to specifically target them.
You use that word a lot, but I don't think you understand what it means.
Okay, but shouldn't I also thank the people who funded the school system and paid the teachers' salaries?
You are, of course, aware tha
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:2, Insightful)
Off-topic, but: as far as I'm concerned, being "a person of faith" (as you put it) has always deserved ridicule. You would ridicule a grown man who believed in the Tooth Fairy, wouldn't you?
But what else will be done with the information (Score:2, Insightful)
But as someone else said, this information could, and most likely will, eventually be shared with other agencies. That, I think, is the real evil here.
Re:Draconian (Score:2, Insightful)
Am I the only one who finds that fact slightly disturbing?
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:4, Insightful)
Every grunt involved in clearing a house in Iraq needs to be perceptive, creative, and analytical to do that job well. More than just reacting intelligently, the warfighter needs to be innovative, because repetition leads to getting killed.
But what would you know about it?
Re:Perspective of a US Marine (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Perspective of a US Marine (Score:5, Insightful)
>freedoms is because of the blood spilt by hundreds of thousands of
>Americans who paid the price for you.
I've never believed this sentiment to be anything other than a
self-serving lie spoken by bullies. Given that there is no economic
model that I'm aware of that posits freedom in terms of price, it's
equally probable that we enjoy our freedoms *in spite of* the wars the
government has engaged in.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe somebody who has walked the walk, and it's obvious to be that you don't have a fucking clue who grunts are, what we do, or why we would take offense at a pansy-ass like you using the term. Taking orders without thinking maybe fine for soviet style penal-infantry, or Argentinian style shoot'em in the foot so they don't run military, but if you think that you can your personal ass out into mortal combat without thinking, feel free to demonstrate to me that I'm wrong. This isn't a video game, you don't get a "free life" for passing a stage.
Re:Article Content (Score:4, Insightful)
If the terrorists extract another drop of blood for 20 years they have already won if you put stock in the most idiotic statement since 9/11 "They Hate Us For Our Freedom" - GWB Fall 2001. If this is REALLY what our administration believes why turn away from that chartet to adopt domestic policies to erode personal liberty, detain people (even US citizens) indefinitely without charge or trial, prop up undemocratic governments in Egypt and Lebanon for fear of "unfriendly" Islamist leaders that would likely win a free election?
Re:One step beyond.. (Score:1, Insightful)
The Army would "clean him up"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is that the same Army whose recruiters attempted to commit two clear ethical violations just in the process of getting him in the door? You're right, sounds like a good influence.
I've had three pretty close friends enlist in the services -- two in the Navy, one in the Marines. The levels of alcohol and drug use they described were frighteningly high. That's anecdotal, okay -- but these were straight arrows going in, and they weren't anywhere near clean while they were in uniform. One at least was more Boy Scout than was maybe good for him before he joined. Two of them have returned to those selves after leaving, but the third is a hard drinking, hard smoking, heavily-tattooed and generally scary fellah now. Wants to talk about how cynical he is about "how things work," mostly.
(This story is basically "The services are desperate to recruit, and they got this 'in' in Bush's education bill to do it with." Why are they desperate to recruit? Because W., having talked so much about the armed forces not being ready for confict during the 2000 campaign, has spent his term in office making those predictions come true on his own watch. Everything the guy claimed about Clinton decimating the military's ability to fight, he's done himself in spades.)
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:3, Insightful)
What I was trying to say is that rich kids selectively occupied safer-than-average positions, such as journalist, or flight instructor, or defending against the dreaded mexican air force.
That's a bit more fair and it certainly seems to hold true in the current Administration. Has anybody of importance still in the Bush Administration served in combat? Has anybody even served? Who was the only person in the first Bush Administration that most people looked up too and did he not serve and warn against Iraq? (I am of course referring to Colin Powell)
But still, to serve both sides of the discussion, I would point out that a fair number of people from relatively privileged backgrounds did serve in Vietnam. John Kerry for example. Criticize somebody for being a spoiled brat, coward or hypocrite -- don't criticize them just because they happen to be rich. Lots of rich people have served and lots of them are opposed to this war.
Re:Not Meeting Recruiting Goals = Desperation (Score:3, Insightful)
We have enough people and equipment in the military to do lots of missions like humanitarian and peacekeeping. We can still destroy any other conventional army in the world. We just don't have the people (or the stomach) to do an imperial occupation. Call it what you will, that's the mission now.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:4, Insightful)
If all the young people who wanted this war would join up today, there'd be more than enough boots on the ground. You'd help the soldiers who are stuck there today, undermanned, live.
There is no excuse. You think the invasion and occupation is worth dying for? You think Bush and Rice and Cheney didn't lie their asses off?
JOIN. That's what war is about, sacrifice.
When are you sacrificing yourself?
If you don't think the occupation and asset seizure is worth your career, your education, your reproductive organ's attachment to your nether regions, or your very life -- then you have no right to support this war, demand its continuation, or demand that OTHERS SERVE IN YOUR PLACE.
Join, and help a private contractor making a thousand dollars per diem in the Green Zone see another day.
JOIN. Or oppose the war. You have no other options, Young Republicans.
Operation Yellow Elephant [blogs.com] Help a Young Republican Join Today!
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:In other words (Score:2, Insightful)
Now lets say I am a poor kid from a place like Flint, Michigan, or the rustbelt and just eeked my way to a high school diploma. I have a few options:
A.) Work in a physically stressful, probably menial and dirty job such as fastfood, custodian, or retail worker. Live paycheck to paycheck, narrowly escaping poverty, maybe one day get promoted to shift supervisor or find a steady factory worker, or civil service job and make $15/hr.
B.) Join the Army, gain valuable skills, earn salary on top of getting basics (food, shelter) paid for. Have the advantage of having the respect of being in the US armed forces on my resume, for the rest of my life.
Downside(today): There is a solid chance that I will get shipped off to war and get disabled for life or killed. Note that only 15% of actively enrolled people in the military are deployed overseas in military operations, and of those 15%, how many are actually on the front lines?
What is an attractive choice to you?
Re:The Army would "clean him up"? (Score:3, Insightful)
How exactly is this different from all my friends who were clean-cut, straight arrows in high school, and then turned into similar beasts as you've described above once in college and on their own?
Re:Why are most military personel middle class? (Score:3, Insightful)
College costs big money. It's not an easy thing for most lower-middle and midde-middle income families to take on the kind of debt that is required to obtain a college degree.
The reality is the United States has a draft today.
It's just an economic draft.
Kids who can afford to pay for college do so. Those who can't afford to pay for it and still want an education go into the military.
Re:OK... I'll bite (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't get down to Gitmo too often do you?
I've never been that patriotic, but I did believe that the US was in the top tier of nations that respected human rights and individual freedom. I think we've begun to fall in those regards.
Re:Opt out (Score:4, Insightful)
While logically true, too many take advantage of the logic. Many of the fields can be deleted, for example, everything but SSN (a unique identifier) and a 'not interested' flag. Since they are provided SSN to enter data in the database, they will have enough to know that the record in question shouldn't go in, even with duplicates.
Re:The Army would "clean him up"? (Score:5, Insightful)
PS: also the one that don't go to college or the military. I think this has more to do with being on one's own for the first time, and learning one's limitations. A cross section of all people age 18-22 is going to show a hefty portion of them partying more than one reasonably should.
Vote Libertarian, or it won't really change.... (Score:3, Insightful)
If the L.P. could garner enough voter support to be viable, their political attitudes and agenda would finally break the cycle. But with the "Republican" vs. "Democrat" status-quo we're working under today - no matter who gets elected, indiividual rights and freedom gets further trampled on. Under the Clinton administration, you had acts like the D.M.C.A. signed into law. With Bush, you have soliders being sent off to die for a war that seems no more likely to ever be won than the "War on Drugs" of the 80's.
Just today, I believe a Supreme Court ruling decided that states DO have the rights to take away individuals' property for ANY reason (not just if they can show it is in the greater public interest to do so). These types of changes happen right under our noses all the time, slowly chiseling away at those grand concepts like "Freedom" that we supposedly fight for in the services.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:2, Insightful)
Who's demanding anything? The only ones who want to force anyone to serve are your friends in the Democratic party. Us free-market types believe in paying soldiers sufficiently well so that enough people will voluntarily sign up.
JOIN. Or oppose the war. You have no other options, Young Republicans.
Donate all your assets to the poor, or oppose welfare. That's an idiotic argument, but still better than yours, because people actually are forced to pay for welfare, while nobody is forced to serve in the military.
Re:You are expendable pawns. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's okay to ridicule people who stubbornly believe something that is wrong. In this case, yes, it's also different from what I believe, since I construct my beliefs based on evidence and not nonsense.
Are you suggesting that belief in the force of gravity and belief in invisible pink unicorns are both deserving of the same amount of respect?