Indian Call Centre Worker Sells Customer Details 425
lxt writes "A British tabloid newspaper managed to buy the personal details of over 1000 bank customers from an off-shore call centre based in Delhi. An IT worker at the call centre handed over details at £4.25 per customer, as well as credit card numbers and account passwords. He claimed could sell over 200,000 account details every month. The British police force has passed on details to Interpol and the Indian authorities, in an attempt to prosecute the individual. The BBC is also covering the story."
So thats why... (Score:2, Interesting)
Lowest bidder indeed (Score:5, Interesting)
In other words, "the jig is up".
I'm not saying "people from India are criminals". I'm saying someone [anywhere] who is paid like shit to do a job is likely going to try and supplement their income. This could [and has] just as easily happen in Canada or the states.
Tip of the iceberg...
Tom
Damn. (Score:2, Interesting)
Happens here too. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Lowest bidder indeed (Score:5, Interesting)
At the peak of the outsourcing boom, people were outsourcing to just about any random company without running through their credibility or history.
As a result, they ended up having contracts with people who didn't care all that much about their data, or what it meant. This is another example of why that's so screwed up.
Now, things will even out. All the smaller outsourcing firms will lose out and only the big players will remain - they may charge more, but they also pay more and will usually have procedures in place that will prevent this sort of thing.
This is a good thing, because things will even out, some may choose to go to another firm, or some may come back here to the US. Either way, the market will eventually stabilize.
Not Just in India (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Lowest bidder indeed (Score:5, Interesting)
The second guy had a girlfriend who worked at a neurologist's office. Most of the patients are old with degenerative conditions. When a patient would die, the girlfriend would pass on the info, and he'd get some cards, max em out, and throw them away. He's actually a pretty successful guy now. don't think he's with the girl anymore though.
All of which is to say - the problem is ubiquitious. Corruption is inherent with the humans dealing with the data, but I can't help but think that there must be a better way of dealing with financial data to prevent theft.
I'm torn, because with increased attempts at security come fewer freedoms. Pretty soon you'll have to give up the Gattaca drop of blood in order to buy movie tickets. I'm not sure if that makes the world a better place.
Re:The Sun (Score:3, Interesting)
And the prices seemed to be predetermined, and the guy from the tabloid just had to ask. It was not that he was offering too much money per record. Validated postal addresses have been sold for more on a regular base. And you got the credit card information thrown in for free with this guy.
Normally bribing someone to give you sensitive information costs much more.
Re:The Sun (Score:3, Interesting)
It demonstrates most simply, that the price of harvesting people's information is much less than the rewards you will reap after having paid for the files.
Approx £4 sterling per account, withdraw £100 per account on average.....PROFIT!
And once the 'authorities' find out who did it, what can they do to that person? Put them in gaol. What can the buyer of the call centre service do to the company that provided the service? Put them out of business. Niether of these things will do much to compensate the millions of poor account holders whose data is being traded all over the world.
The best thing is to not use these external services at all, and pay more for better internal security. That could even be a unique selling point.
running from a guy with a gun (Score:5, Interesting)
well, before you think that it was your average latino guy that carries a gun i have to tell that it was a US businessman who operates a casino here
well I think if instead of the police, some big guy chases you down the street with a gun every time you touch data that does not belong to you - really makes the point
"where there is gambling, there are criminals"
I've worked in a call center (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, at one point, a guy used someone's credit card to buy roses for his girlfriend. That's below criminal, and into the "just plain stupid" range.
After that, the company locked down everything. No cell phones on the floor, etc. Reps who regularly deal with sensitive e-mail don't even have access to e-mail. Access to sites like Yahoo is blocked from their computer and I'm not sure what else
While all activity is monitored, last I heard they were looking for a way to automate their search for suspicious behavior. (scanning logs for when a user opens notepad and types a credit card number. Probably not too hard in Perl, but I don't know the language.)
People talk about lower standards of living in other countries, forgetting that this is partly made up for by the fact that it's a lot CHEAPER to live overseas than in the United states. So while poverty in 3rd world countries is rampant, if you pay someone a halfway decent wage, the money goes a long way there.
And when you get down to it, it would be pretty tough to run a call center in the US staffed with college grads, like you could do in the Philippines, and keep it open 24 hours a day.
The fact that it's harder to prosecute people overseas is a problem. The company I worked for was based in the US, though, so it was still liable under US law. And I think that the company's potential liability was a selling point with potential clients.
Of course, one element in every crime is opportunity. The black market in the Philippines seemed much bigger than in the states which should increase the opportunity to sell things a person shouldn't be selling, be they pirated DVDs or CC#s
Re:DPA (1998) Breach (Score:4, Interesting)
" in addition to the laws currently on the books, that they should get extended to provide real penalties to companies and people in breach."
Absolutely. A law without enforced penalties is a waste of time and money. There *has* been an offence against the DPA here, the customer data is evidence. The law requires proactive implementation of safeguards to stop it happening, though it doesn't specify what those safeguards should be.
At the moment, people found guilty of an offence can only be fined a maximum of £5000 (Per offence?). I think that we need prison as an option.
Re:Ah... The benefits of outsourcing (Score:2, Interesting)
I could have replied to any of the "you're wrong/a bigot/unaware/uneducated" replies that have been posted in reply to my comments, but I've chosen yours... No special reason other than yours was one of the least insulting replies (Gotta love those one-line "You're a XXX" replies that
While I can understand everyone's knee jerk reaction, I think that y'all are the ones in the dark about this kinda stuff. I've included some links for your reading pleasure. If you're really bored, you might try this sparkling new service called "Google", and type in something like "India anti-american". You'll find a lot more than the few that I've provided.
Not that these links are comprehensive of the entire situation, but they should provide you with enough reading material to show you that I'm not labeling all Indian people as anti-American, nor am I saying that everyone in the Middle east is out to get us. I'm simply pointing out that India, and a lot of the countries we outsource to, are not the USA-lovin' countries that you are assuming they are.
If you want to prove me wrong, drape yourself with an "I love America" T-shirt, and go walking down the streets of these countries, and send me some pictures. If you come out unscathed, then you have my apologies.
http://www.cnn.com/video/world/2001/10/22/mr.indi
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1411733/
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3
http://pd.cpim.org/2003/0330/03302003_protests_re
http://www.getcustoms.com/2004GTC/Articles/ga-200
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0519-06.h
Everybody has it sort of sideways (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a problem exacerbated by outsourcing and also one reason FOR outsourcing this sort of thing. But it is not a problem particular to _offshoring_ - the problem is with companies' belief that contracting the work gets them free from responsibility for managing the safety of their customer's data - which they aren't very good at anyway. Offshoring makes legal enforcement trickier, but that's really not nearly the prime problem here.
What you need is a legal system providing substantial penalties to the banks - or anyone else collecting similar information - if they "lose" your data. These penalties should start with statutory minimum class-action penalties which automatically increase over several years and then add corporate officer liability in cases of negligence, not just malice.
Then, offshored or not, outsourced or not, they'll FIND a way to keep your information safe.
NOT the first time this has happened! (Score:3, Interesting)
Link [sfgate.com]
So anyway, a worker with all those medical records contacts the hospital and ransoms their records. Great fun.
Re:Lowest bidder indeed - about your own morals (Score:3, Interesting)
Besides, those may have been childhood friends. You don't rat out a mate especially when you know he'd be facing +10yrs and shower rushes.
I had my place broken into once and completely trashed while I was on vacation. They caught the kids (well, over 18) and put one of them on trial for it. I had a chance to speak before sentencing and the prosecutor had told me the judge was a hardass who hated vandalism and this guy was looking at 2-4yrs. But when I saw him - skinny, poor, terrified - I just couldn't do it. Got up and asked the judge to give him a community sentence and downplayed the effect it had on me and my gf (boy, was my gf furious w/ me). The punishment had to fit the crime and I didn't want this guy getting raped (bad prisons in my area) over a couple of thousand dollars. Long story short, kid got suspended sentence, I forget about it until nearly 10yrs later when I met him on my university campus where he enrolled after eventually pulling his life together. I've got no regrets and would/will do the same again.
Re:Gimme a break (Score:2, Interesting)
I never joke about international trade (unless its funny, in which case, I am laughing with you).
"And you seem to think that being nationalistic is something bad?? Why would anyone NOT want their country to come out on top? This life is a constant struggle, a perpetual contest to see who can win. Life IS competition, and frankly, I'd like to be on the winning side as often as possible."
Right, but you seem to believe that the world owes you special favors because you were born in a wealthy country. Is it the responsibility of the government to guarantee your employment? To safeguard your business from foreign competitors? To subsidize your exports? Such action leads to long-term stagnation and high unemployment, as indicted by the performance of the French economy. Freer economies, like those found in the UK and US, benefit in the long-term from increased specialization (In The Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith relates the size of the available economy to specialization of labor), and a higher standard of living. The poor benefit proportionally.
"And while I don't advent keeping anyone down, I certainly am not altrusitic enough to want to give to others 'till it hurts'."
Altruism has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with the long-term gains of opening markets to transparent international trade.
"I not only don't want others to succeed at our expense, but, I can't stand the fact that our country is actively hurting our citizens by thoughtlessly shipping our tech jobs overseas for a short term gain, but, losing sight of the long term detrimental effects....
Actually, the problem is the inverse: there are long-term benefits and short-term costs of jobs. History has proven this, time and time again.
the main one being that if we don't have tech people working here, how will we continue to innovate? Already, we see the effects in that our young people are NOT working toward computer and other tech degrees as much as in the past.
The opposite is also true: if we close our borders, how will our companies have the incentive to innovate?
to a point, you are right. Sure, there are criminal types all over the world. However, different cultures have different degrees of what they consider to be crimes. It does seem that India does not view privacy ideals, and minor theft of such as great of a crime as it is in the US by statute. Sure we have people that will do the same here in the US. However, we can catch them here and prosecute them. I doubt the same can be said of India.
You're absolutely right here. The United States is the best country in the world when it comes to transparency and combating visible corruption. Corruption and creative accounting are actually one of the largest barriers to international trade and the developing world.
And lets face it...people in a country are going to be a bit more careful with treating their own people and their information than they will that of peoples of other countries. Someone that might be on the 'brink' of doing something wrong like this might think twice if it is a fellow countryman's info, rather than a foreigner's information.
Perhaps. I would suppose it has more to do with not associating #13442 with a real person who can be harmed than anything else. I will concede that was probably foolish to leave sensitive information in an unsecured facility.
And finally....you and others keep saying "In the long run, it will be better". Better for who?
For the motivated, educated worker, the future will be of fantastic opportunity. But of course, I, The Economist [economist.com], and countless others, could be lying to you. Protectionism seems to working ok for Scandinavia and France, and it worked out ok for Japan, and China, right?
"I cannot see how this benefits the US at all....shipping off jobs and creating u
Re:Crime and Punishment (Score:2, Interesting)
You know, India is a wonderful country, a place of amazing beauty and incredible social and cultural contrasts. I can't really say I've ever met an Indian I dind't like (and I've met a lot of them). That's not something I can say for people from other countries. There's something about Indians that is just outgoing, engaging and nice. I've spent many evenings talking with Indian friends, listening about religious festivals, food, customs and other aspects of their lives (I'm also an 'expat' of sorts).
But people like you need to lighten the fuck up. The parent was making a joke. I can't believe how many times I've seen this shit here on Slashdot where someone from India gets all huffy because of some stupid comment and trots out the "India is the biggest democracy" bullshit argument, as if that meant anything. You are still essentially a third world country. No amount of posturing will get you out of there, and you shouldn't fly off the deep end when someone points out that maybe India (as China and so many other emerging nations) is not such an absolutely hot place to live. All countries have problems and issues. But you guys have made ignoring and denying those into an art form, especially to foreigners.
BTW, I have Indian friends who could not point out the Netherlands or Sweden in a map of Europe. Generalizing about the ignorance of a group of people based on their nationality is stupid.
Cheers.
Re:Lowest bidder indeed - about your own morals (Score:3, Interesting)