Court Rules GIS Data Can't Be Kept Secret 269
Silverbear writes "In an update from a Slashdot story posted in January, The Connecticut Supreme Court has ruled that there is not a significant security risk to the town of Greenwich in making its GIS Data available to the public, and therefore must do so. Greenwich had claimed that the data could compromise personal and national security, and was sued under CT Freedom of Information laws. The legal ruling is available."
In this era of paranoia (Score:5, Interesting)
===
Not that I think we should be paranoid, I think this hysteria over terrorism is exactly what both sides want (the government gets to take more control and the terrorists get to disrupt our way of life and our happiness)
This is excellent. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:GIS info is sensitive? Give me a break! (Score:5, Interesting)
What is it with the "this time" stuff? After a case goes through the full process of being heard, being appealed, and being heard at higher courts, it's reasonably certain that the outcome is correct according to the law. If the courts produce a decision you don't like, then you probably need to look to your lawmakers, not your justices.
Of course, most of the "decisions" that people complain about around here never go to court. i.e. The case procedes as:
1. Person get cease and desist or notices a rights violation.
2. Lots of complaining about how bad the courts are, and how they're all in Bush's/Clinton's/Jimmy Carter's pocket.
3. Case never goes to court, despite the law actually stating the "correct answer".
4. More complaining about how bad the courts are.
Yeash people. Believe it or not, the US court system does tend to work correctly.
Ok, I'm done with my rant now. You can mod me offtopic. (Because I am.)
Re:As as GIS guy, I kinda expect some limits (Score:2, Interesting)
Restricting access to information is retarded. Rules should deal with actions, not with information.
Don't worry -- the data's already been "cleansed" (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:GIS info is sensitive? Give me a break! (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, you're thinking, "but my tax dollars paid that bill!"
Probably, yes. However, the tax dollars are apportioned in different amounts to different groups within government. Some group has to fight hard to justify a budget allocation big enough to cover their GIS software licenses... and they don't want other government groups to reap the benefits without helping to pay for it.
Around here, government departments tend to charge one another huge fees for their GIS output, thus sharing the cost of the software licenses. If they were required to give it to citizens for free (or, for $900), then obviously they wouldn't be able to charge another government department more than that.
So... they might actually have been worried about security. It seems more plausible to me that some guy was just worried that the folks over in the other department would get his data, and he'd be footing the bill with his budget allocation. Passing it off as a security concern just seems like a better way to get higher-ups on board.
Re:GIS info is sensitive? Give me a break! (Score:3, Interesting)
i doubt it was the property line that concerned... (Score:1, Interesting)
Now i'm suprised they tried to restrict it as this stuff need to be frely available with little inconveince so that you don't have somebody sticking a bloody great digger through one of them. Trust me, contractors can be lazy and if there is an added inconvience to them getting neccisary health and safety information they might skip it if three is a time/money pressure on.
And it would be nice if they had this collated in a single document. In the UK most infrastructure supplies are considered statutory authorities and hold this infomation themselves which means you have to approach about 60 companies to ensure that a parcel of land does not have any hidden dangers underneath. Which is why we have the odd powerline cut etc.
The data should be public (Score:1, Interesting)
More than that. (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically, think of it as a new kind of database. One that is capable of generating maps.
And just like any other database, it could have who knows what in it. Some information is very private, and some isn't.
Re:Cue the Classists, Please... (Score:2, Interesting)
Generically, Greenwich is one of about 169 municipalities in the state of CT.
Specifically, it has become overrun with the sort of rich people that give rich people a bad name. The sort of charicatures that leftists and arachists always speak of. Snotty, snobbish, self-important, "do-you-know-who-I-am?!" types. The town is firmly in the political hands of these people and the police could care less if you're a renter in an apartment on the main drag (they exist, more of them closer to the NY border), but if you live in places like Belle Haven, they are practically your private soldiers. I used to be harassed by their police as "not looking like" I "belong here" every single night I had third shift maintenance to do on a telecom co-location. Corporate van, uniform, badge, cell phone, manager's contact info, and they still insinuated I looked like I shouldn't be there.
I would take claims of their PD doing racial/ethnic/economic profiling as a given.
I used to work in broadband/telecom down there and when they make impossible demands on "the help" they aren't mere stupid common users. They already pointedly KNOW what they are asking for is improper, they simply expect the laws of physics and reality to be bent for their benefit on their command.
I lost count of the times I was asked to enter through "the servant's entrance" when working there.
You can say this is too harsh, but unless you've experienced the insulting and condescending stares and words from these people yourself, you have no idea. The worst part is, they absolutely do not care about dispelling this image and work very hard to reinforce it.
And are they really this paranoid? Yes. I've been to homes where I was escorted by paid security guards from the front gates through the building and was pointedly told not to look in certain directions. They actually thought they could continue their personal activities in the house right in front of visiting technicians, and MAKE the technician not look in certain directions as if a horse wearing blinders. Several homes even had their man friday duct tape sheets over alarm panels and sensors around the house so I wouldn't see them and thus be able to break in later with that knowledge.
That's what outsiders need to know. If you want examples of really horrendously crazy paranoid snobs like something out of Caddyshack, Greennwich is your place to look.
GIS info really *IS* sensitive. (Score:1, Interesting)
GIS indeed contains sensitive data. Our layers contain information about where the high-pressure gasoline transport pipelines run thru our city, also where the high-pressure natural gas pipelines run. The natural gas in these lines is not the diluted stuff, with the mercaptain odorant added, like you get from the pipes at your house. It is the pure concentrated stuff straight from the wells and distribution pumps. From our GIS data, a terrorist (gack! I said the "T"-word. Ugh!) could find the most vulnerable places where to sabotage these pipelines and wreak havoc. He could also find out where the achilles heels of the public safety communications systems (buried fiberoptics and copper lines, microwave sites, etc) are located and sabotage those at the same time as his buddies blow up the gasoline pipelines. Oh, and they'd also be able to more easily find out where to most effectively cripple the water lines too, and on a smelly note, could also find out where to cause the most damage to our sewage pumping stations, most of which are underground too.
"Stolen" ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this a first? Authorized and legal duplication of information is being called "theft" here.
"Especially since GIS people put so much work in the converges, then see it taken and abused by the public."
And here is the other thing wrong with your statement. Government road crews put a lot of hard work into building and maintaining roads, don't they? And yet, if it is not a toll road, you will be shocked to find that there are businesses that actually have company cars and trucks using these roads. Such an abuse! And libraries? There are legions of nonfiction authors who research those free library books and then make a profit from the information when they sell their books. I bet you agree that it would be a great improvement if libraries charged $10 for each book checked out! Stop those profiteers from stealing information!
Re:GIS info is sensitive? Give me a break! (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, the funny thing is that much of what they do is done in the open. Over the years, I have worked on several projects the involved various groups (DARPA, CIA, NSA, and DOD). In several cases, the work was attributed in one context, but was actually used in another. The first time that this was done was at a major university. The 2'nd at a quasi regular job.
Lowers the costs and with all the noise, it makes it hard to tell that it was anything interesting.
As to concern about what they do, I would worry less about what they do, and worry more about allowing the tech. to flow to DOJ( and by extension the FBI). Now, we are moving from what was professional groups (and down the road more autonomy will be restored) to politically-controlled groups. The tools that were available to NSA and CIA just a couple of years ago, will allows for total abuse under Patriot Act (I, II, and future).
Re:GIS info is sensitive? Give me a break! (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, some parts of the patriot act have been found unconstitutional [washingtonpost.com].
Re:Are they serious? (Score:1, Interesting)
My favorite--rough floor plans with rooms labeled. Pertains to the tax assessment of the property when the fellow walks around your home, given the square footage comes into play with tax assessment, as well as data supposed for the fire fighters.
Not saying the information should be protected outright, but you should know what you are talking about. This info was always available; that's not really the issue to many people, but how readily is. Before, you went to a court house to request the info. Now, you can sit at your computer and pull up this data from around the world. There is no gatekeeper.
Mapquest has nothing on it. I know. Mapquest was started a few miles south of where I am. The information Mapquest has on this county pales in comparison to what the county has up online.
Re:In this era of paranoia (Score:3, Interesting)
What do the cops do to you if you look at FBI buildings or oil refineries in satellite images on Google maps?