Grand Theft Auto Led Teen to Kill 1311
Varg Vikernes writes "FOXNews reports on a lawsuit that claims the video game 'Grand Theft Auto' led a teenager to shoot two police officers and a dispatcher to death in 2003, mirroring violent acts depicted in the popular game. 'What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin... to kill three men,' attorney Jack Thompson told The Tuscaloosa News, which reported the suit's filing. Thompson is also filing suit against Wal-Mart, Gamestop, Take-Two and Sony." Gamespot has coverage of this story as well. Thompson has made something of a career out of lawsuits of this nature.
I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
When will the blame be placed where it belongs, with the people who's job is to raise this child until he is old enough to support himself?
What the hell happened to being responsible for your own actions?
If I ever rob someone at an ATM I'll sue NBC because I saw someone on Law & Order do it once.
What the FUCK is wrong with this country?
Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't get America.. "Violent video games cause kids to commit crimes, we should ban them." Yet every motherfucking person in the Bible belt owns at least one Gun. Perhaps the kid wouldn't have shot the cops if he couldn't have got access to a Gun.
Before you moderate me flamebait.. please bear in mind that around fifty eight thousand [guncite.com] Americans are killed by guns every year. Yes, that's around eleven times as man as in 9/11 and that is EVERY year. Bush would do a better job of protecting americans by removing firearms than countering terroism. You're more likely to be killed by a pig than a terrorist - and your around a million times more likely to be killed by a gun than by Osma.
America needs to stop living in fear and start addressing the real threats to society - one of them being the gun culture.
Yours Sincerely,
AC
Wow! (Score:1, Insightful)
aqazaqa
Does anyone know... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Training (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure the parents did plenty of training too.
There's gotta be some emoticon for rolling your eyes.
Who cares? (Score:2, Insightful)
We keep seeing a repeat of the same thread every 6 months, with nothing new to add. Whenever an interesting thread does come along, it's usually dominated by .
We've discovered the cause... (Score:5, Insightful)
one quote sums this up (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
But mainly you. You have to teach him to handle other influences appropriately; that's in fact your main job once the pooping/feeding part is self-sustaining. YOU have to equip him with the tools to differentiate right from wrong, reality from fantasy, exciting electronic offers from spam, etc.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
At this point, I think it's more fair to ask "What the fuck is wrong with this kid, and his parents?"
We know what's wrong with the lawyer. He has no ethics and thinks there's money to be made.
Now, if he consisently succeeds in winning these lawsuits, then we can ask what's wrong with this country. The answer is already ' a lot of things'
GTA inspiring violence (Score:3, Insightful)
Inevitably, parents will buy this for their children, then complain about gaming companies when they notice little 10 year old jimmy is beating up hookers, forming gangs with other 10 year olds, and killing cops online.
Games? Alcohol? Any Difference? (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems rather odd that if video games influence poor decisions, it is the fault of the game manufacturer and/or distributor, but when people make bad decisions and drive when drunk, its just the fault of the person.
I love double standards.
Scapegoat (Score:1, Insightful)
Whatever happenned to... (Score:3, Insightful)
Get a better lawyer (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Maybe if we removed the criminals that are using the firearms we'd have a better result.
A shitload of people die from car wrecks too, should we ban those?
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery....now it's the company you work fors fault. lame. The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:1, Insightful)
What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not the guns that's the problem. The people that want guns to use them, will get guns.
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:-1, Insightful)
Communism doesn't theoretically work either. I can see you making the argument to say that theoretically works as well. It doesn't. People are not equal.
If suing video game developers is fair game.. (Score:5, Insightful)
..then so is suing priests, politicians, and Dr. Phil.
If I said the President of the United States taught me that solving problems with violence was appropriate, which is why I shot my next door neighbor, I'd be called a lunatic. But if I say video games made me do it, I'm just a victim?
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
The parents either did a crappy job raising him, or he was born with or developed a severe chemical imabalance, or he's just a bad guy. Either way, it's not the gaming companies fault. It's the kids and possibly his parents.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
This is an absurdity of the greatest kind. And fully indicative of the litigous behaviour that has infected Americans. It makes no sense. But this foolishness has been going on for years.
Recall the outrage at D&D and the overreaction when a teen killed himself "because his charcter died". It was crap then and crap now. That poor kid killed himself because he was filled with crushing depression and his parents did not help him. BUT someone had to be held responsible, that was D&D.
In this case, a stupid jackass kid killed three police officers and that is horrible and he should be punished but the notion of complicity for a video game company is preposterous. There is violent material readily available for all sorts of people, the GTA series is taking the brunt of it. (Although I suspect they make a shit load of cash out of it too, like Marilyn Manson did after Columbine). The GTA games do not deserve this. The violence that is so pervasive in entertainment can not be overlooked and singling out a specifuc source is just dumb. If he dropped and anvil on their head would Warner Bother's be sued? I think not. Video game player are not confused about the lines of reality and fantasy. This kid was confused and that should have been spotted and he should never have had access to the game. The culpability lies with the merderous son of a bitch and his parent or guardians for farsaking his sorry ass. Not Sony or Rockstar.
Or: Mental Illness Led Teen to Kill (Score:2, Insightful)
Video games don't make people kill. People kill becuase they don't know right from wrong or because they cannot exercise self control. Think about that...they're broken people. They're sick.
A normal and healthy person will not be swayed by a game, tv show, book or movie to kill. One who has had traumatic experiences or who has delusions might be inspired to kill by a game. But, whats really at fault, the game or the disease?
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:2, Insightful)
And we all know how well this policy is working with illegal drugs.
Making stuff illegal is not the solution. The solution is figuring out how to make people less dumb-assed and more humane. I personally believe this starts with better education in the humanities but YMMV.
-Pinkoir
What a scumbag (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't believe he can seriously make this argument. I've played the same game and seen the same things in that game as this kid did. I have no desire to commit violent acts because of that.
What happened here is that an individual who was predisposed to violent behavior saw some other violent behavior and (perhaps) modeled it.
According to this guy's sick logic, we should not report crimes in the newspapers or on television because the details of those crimes will motivate other people to commit them. While it is true that people do copycat crimes, they do them because they are criminals, not because of what they saw.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Heres the next thing you need to know, Americans are grown up taught that they're *special*. They deserve to be rich and famous. And when that doesnt happen they are disappointed. Lawsuits like these *are* bullshit, but they're a way to be important (and maybe rich). Combine that with a completly broken legal system (where you can get more time for copying a DVD than murder, or you can get millions for cancer caused by smoking even though you knew it was bad for you), throw in our completely unscrupulous lawyers and corporations who have used lawsuits as weapons against the people for years, and people think its ok to sue for things like this.
Just about *EVERYTHING* here in the US needs an overhaul... and nothings getting it
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it immoral to play these games (Score:3, Insightful)
As much as I want to, I didn't play GTA:San Andreas. I simply think its something I don't want to do. Its like rap too, with negative stereotypes toward blacks(demeaning towards women,praise about guns, drugs, excessive use of curse words). I was into rap for a while, thinking its a good way to bring people together... But they people they're brining together...
I'm not suprised at a GTA player killing people. Or a quake person going on columbine. Or a columbine obsessed person killing people at a mall. Nor am I suprised at someone who obsesses over Friday the thirteeth to go out on a rampage either. Some people make horrific icons their heros. Then they want to be like them. So they'll try and come off all dark and evil. But if people just make fun of them, they'll take it one step further and take out the act to show they're really like their hero.
Its all in whats in your heart. People's desires and values are what make us human.
This is only half the story (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to defend the GTA games, because they ARE disgusting. Let's face it...the gameplay rewards sadistic behavior. The more cops you run over, the more points you get. The game may have given this guy ideas, but realistically, he was probably open to criminal behavior anyway. If he's an adult, it's his responsibility.
Question (Score:5, Insightful)
Would the thoughts of the freedoms we enjoy come back and haunt us? Ever?
Would a society where its children drink two or three soda's a day, eat a hamburgers several times a week, watch various degrees of violence on TV, listen to on radio or music with phrases like "pimp my ho" and "nasty bitchs" and other choice "Ghetto is good"(TM) phrases, or entertains via internet or games with violence the only option, be destined for self destruction?
I'm sure I will be attacked as a troll or zealot or religious fanatic or something of that sort, doesn't matter. What does matter is the simple thought of society training children and students with everything they don't need for a healthy life style. You teach your children to talk through example. You teach your children to dress, act, and interact through example. Why cant a teenager wait to drive, cause he wants what has been around his set as an example.
Same thoughts apply to violence. Everything is set through example.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes fingers need to be pointed.
In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery...
Oh? And what if you were doing nothing more than operating it the way it was supposed to be operating, and because it was poorly maintained, it malfunctioned and took your arm off? Or killed you?
I think people have a reasonable expectation that the machines they're expected to work with won't injure or kill them, and that the owners of those machines have a responsibility to ensure that's the case. Much as I think people have a reasonable expectation that spilled coffee shouldn't inflict third-degree burns over their genitals through two layers of clothing. Hence the McDonald's coffee damages.
This lawyer is a douchbag. But there are legitimate reasons for tort lawsuits. I for one don't want to live in a world where companies choose lax safety standards because its cheaper that making sure their products don't maim or kill, and I can't imagine why you would. Tort lawsuits keep that in check.
The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."
Because a surprising number of times, it is someone else's fault.
There will be civil war, unfortunately. (Score:1, Insightful)
I believe in equity between all people, regardless of race, creed, religion, sexuality, or gender. I protest against social injustice and volunteer my time and professional services (IAAL) for those in need. I am a very reasonable, forward-thinking, and fairly intelligent individual. However, when people start clamoring for the government of the United States to start behaving like Hitler's Gestapo, then I take offence. While it's cliched to say so, the government will take my guns out of my cold dead hands.
Since 9/11 enough of our rights have been curtailed. Without the second ammendment, the constitution is just another piece of paper. The second is the only guarantee we have for the all of the other ammendments. Without it, none of the others are worth squat.
YOURS sincerely right back,
AC
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
I play a video game called Rome: Total War [totalwar.com] . In that game, I control armies with hundreds (sometimes thousands) of men. Those men march across open fields armed with swords, spears, bows/arrows, etc. Then, they kill each other in massive violent battles. I can actually see hundreds of dead bodies on the field when I am finished with a battle. When I capture an enemy city, I am given the option of Enslaving Half of that cities populace, or killing 90% of the populace in an effort to maintain control.
My game, which I love, is rated T (for Teen). Nobobody complains about the violence in my game. Why are you complaining about the violence in GTA?
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
The real problem is that we've become a nation of buck-passers.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh, says who? The kid? The DEFENDANT?
Yeah, let's go ahead and make public policy based on the statements of someone trying to stay out of JAIL.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good parenting doesn't start durring the trouble years, it starts day 0. Well, day -270 or so, but you get the point.)
So, if you have raised a kid who can play a video game, and think it's okay to go do this, you've lost. Many, many years before, though.
do video games train kids to fire a gun? (Score:2, Insightful)
Some like to point out that video games give the player the same thrill. Firing a weapon and even 'killing' with no consequence. They marvel at how interesting it is that many kids have the same ability to fire several hundred rounds, without even thinking. This is what soldiers are trained to do, and the video games seem to give children that same ability.
The problem with this is two fold. First, if a child knows how to fire a weapon, they likely did not learn it from a video game. Guns tend to be heavy and have a quite different feel from a joystick or even gun mockup. If a child can go into a school have the dexterity and stamina to fire off a few hundred rounds, and in the process take out a dozen or so people, it is likely because they have experience doing so with a real weapon, not a joystick. It really is the case that bowling will more likely develop the strength to fire a gun than a video game.
Second, there were a fair number of soldier during WWI that were happy to kill the enemy at point blank range. There are a fair number of common of criminals on the street today that are willing to kill a person at point blank range for their tennis shoes. There are a fair number of people that will doom hundreds of families to starvation to satisfy a personal lust for stuff.
Taken together this tells us that for many people regard for human life and suffering is non existent. These kids and adult are just looking for an excuse to kill and main and steal. Any excuse will do and trying to rid the world of excuses is not a useful endeavor. It is much more useful to identify these miscreants and enemies of civilization and attempt to put them to useful work, such as the CEO of a corporations, or isolate them.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, wait, I was doing that for years before we got the Playstation.
But I couldn't agree more. I've got to say, it seems like 75% of my daughter's phrasing choices and cultural interests come from what she's heard people other than us say. Grandparents, teachers and friends at pre-school, Arthur, all seem to have rubbed off on her (granted, she's only three, but the pattern is already VERY noticeable.) And taken at face value, that could make it seem like society is raising our kid. But the ability to determine right from wrong, use the appropriate references to infer the proper information from the world around her, and treat other people with kindness and compassion regardless of the cultural references she uses to do so are all up to my wife and I. As is the ability to stand up and take responsibility for his actions rather than listening to some lawyer who wants to make him a pawn in his little windmill-fighting crusade against game companies.
This is not to say that I think this kid should be strung up by his thumbs for this - he's obviously ill and needs help. Let's assume for a minute that this dunderhead lawyer is right - the game did influence him. That indicates a very unhealthy and imprintable mind, not a game that needs to be removed from stores.
While this is kind of an absurd correlation, think about what would happen if all movies were censored that contain objectionable behavior (Blockbuster tried that a few years ago, as I recall, and it was met with some glee and mostly outrage). Trying to strike any reference to the bad parts of society leads to ignorance, not security.
No difference at all. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Alcohol is associated with a substantial proportion of human violence, and perpetrators are often under the influence of alcohol." -- Eighth Special Report to the U.S. Congress on Alcohol and Health
So, it's no secret that alcohol can be abused to the detriment of society. But, the counterargument is this: most people who consume alcohol commit no crimes at all. Thus, alcohol does not cause violence, it simply makes violent people more violent.
This applies equally to movies, video games, rock/rap music and other targets of these self-proclaimed "moralists."
This kid was already violent. And mort importantly: one out of millions does not prove causation between GTA and violence.
At The Risk of Being Flammed (Score:4, Insightful)
Having said that, I wonder where games like the GTA series have in our society? I am honestly asking: what is the appeal of these games? We've had games before were you're the hero defeating "the enemy" (whether it's in Wolfenstein, Doom, etc.), and I don't have a problem with that. My question revolves around games where the object is to steal/kill innocent people. You have to admit that something like that could influence someone's behaviour.
I bring this up becuase, back in university, I did research on how porn videos affect male sexual response, and there were some men who wanted to "do it like that bitch in" whatever movie, and their sexual response was based on what they saw in the videos (the feeling that this was "normal" behaviour). This was documented research by a scientific study. So, it cannot be denied that whatever a person interacts themselves with can have an effect on their behaviour.
So, I am asking what is the appeal of these games?
Oh, and before anybody asks: yes, I've tried playing GTA, but couldn't get into it.
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
However, doing a good job does not 100% assure that your kid will grow up to be a good person and not a murderer. Some people are who they are despite the best efforts of caring parents.
It's BAD PARENTS and LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY (Score:2, Insightful)
I wish someone with no sense of personal responsibility would shoot that fuckin' lawyer UT2000 Style "Headshot" then claim that the combination of ranting from the lawyer, and the videogame made his dog talk to God and tell him to do it!
I'm sick of everyone fobbing the consequences of their actions off on some third party (The drunk driver in the recently announced 21M dollar victory against a beer vending company at a stadium: I didn't hurt that kid when I sideswiped their vehicle, it was the vendor's fault for allowing me to go to different vending stands and buy beer," the owners of Ford Explorer SUV's that flip over: "It's not my fault my family's dead, just because I bought a light-duty truck, overloaded it, didn't like the ride so decreased the air pressure to under the stated minimum -- nope, it's the tire company's fault, and Ford!".) It's time these whining pukes started sucking it up, and taking responsibility. To quote Jeff Foxworthy (will this rant, or quoting Jeff be what get's me modded into oblivion again?) "Just once, I'd like to hear someone go on Operah and tell the truth. Nope, My mom was great, my dad was great, I had a wonderful childhood -- I'm just a shithead."
People need to either quit complaining about government intervention in every little facet of their lives, or start taking responsibility for every action. To do, or claim to want, anything less is pure and unadulterated hipocrysy. It's also showing the lack of personal responsibility that we've created in generations with the "Self esteem is the be-all end-all, no child must be told 'you are doing wrong' but must be told 'you are doing something unique and special.'" We are reaping what's been sown over the past 30 years of emotional based (verses facts based) living, child-rearing, discipline, and education
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's the most bizarre twisting of the phrase 'personal responsibility' I have ever heard. Bravo. Most sane people actually use it to mean standing behind your actions, not "you are responsible for everything that happens to you."
Or Marylin Manson (Score:3, Insightful)
In Bowling for Columbine, Manson made exactly this point: the government tells people to be violent, by for example bombing Iraq or Serbia. "And who's a bigger influence: The president? Or Marilyn Manson?"
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Personal responsibility could conceivably be extended to justify murder, with "well, he didn't have a gun and didn't defend himself when I shot him dead, so it's his fault he's dead".
That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.
Re:If suing video game developers is fair game.. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's like he was just the Boss on the first level - Who's on Level 2, Kim Il-Jung?
GTA (etc) have sold MILLIONS of copies. How many kids have gone out and blown people away? And please don't (not you specifically, people in general) even bring up friggin Columbine. They tried that lame excuse there and blamed Doom for causing those two to carry out the crimes.
If they really played Doom and were any good, their frag count would have been a hell of a lot higher than it was.
Quit blaming video games. Video games didn't cause your kids to be violent. Judas Priest didn't cause your kids to shoot themselves. Elvis didn't cause your kids to be promiscuous.
When the hell did people stop being responsible for their own actions?
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:3, Insightful)
No, he'd run over them instead.
Solve the problem, not the symptom.
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Personal responsibility could conceivably be extended to justify murder, with "well, he didn't have a gun and didn't defend himself when I shot him dead, so it's his fault he's dead".
This is what qualifies as +5 insightful? That's... breathtaking.
Killing a defenseless person is that act which, in an atmosphere of personal accountibility, most directly and immediately demonstrates your willingness to give up your own rights. You take someone else's away, or attempt to do so, you lose yours. It's as simple as that. You are a trolling, flamebating ass, and you know it, even if the drive-by moderators think that this is some high qualtiy, if tangental, anti-libertarian bash worthy of modding up. Nonsense.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
That is an extremely weak argument. Hanging around a felon isn't a bad influence, but playing video games is. Ugh. What about the millions of other kids who play the same games, how come they don't all go berserk?
Similarly (Score:5, Insightful)
People also think a game that allows
- taking a rocket launcher and shooting someone in the face is 'fun'
- taking a broadsword and hacking off an opponents arm is 'fun'.
- driving at triple digits on public roads is 'fun'.
- building a rollercoaster that is designed to crash is 'fun'.
- having a giant ape throw boulders at you is 'fun'.
Games are escapism. Deal with it.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:1, Insightful)
Until people begin to realize that it's OK not to have the highest standard of living you can possibly stretch yourself to afford, the problem won't get better.
Re:Frivilous Lawsuits (Score:4, Insightful)
Most lawyers do not work on contingency. most lawyers are paid per 10 minute or 15 minute interval of work. Personal injury attorneys are paid in contingency, but not in most other law.
If a suit is trivial, it is thrown out of court. It is only heard by the court if it is NOT trivial. A judge wouldn't hear a case like this unless he deemed it a worthy thing to hear. SO perhaps the judge is wrong, but that's another issue entirely. It's not the fault of the system at that point, but the fault of the lame-o judge.
It's human instinct. (Score:3, Insightful)
Humans, like most higher order animals have fighting in their blood. When we're little boys, we playfight. Puppies playfight. Kittens playfight. My ferret playfought. Nobody has to teach you to do that, we do it on their own. How many little boys do you know that never playfought?
People love to fight. Even if we don't participate in it, most people like to watch it. How can you tell when there's a fight? Look for the crowd of people watching. They might say how horrible it is, but they can't stop watching, because deep down inside it's something that they want to see.
Violence is a part of human nature, get used to it.
Pac-Man was a prophet! (Score:2, Insightful)
we'd all run around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music..."
--- Kristian Wilson, CEO, Nintendo Gaming Corporation, Inc, 1989
Re:Cheap Labor Conservatives (Score:3, Insightful)
Really, criticizing the President for holding lots of T-Bills? It's practically the only investment he can hold which is completely free from any potential conflict of interest. Any domestic decision he makes can be seen as favouring some group, and holding stock makes it politically dangerous to make any decisions that may help a company whose stock he holds, regardless of merit. The left has been on Cheney's case for his connections to Halliburton with all kinds of righteous fury. Do you think it would be different if Bush was holding stock in American Airlines, Ford, or Microsoft?
Hell, at least he's buying stock in our government. The contension that he's making a mess of the deficit (and he IS
Come on, people. There are good reasons for holding any number of various (and conflicting) political beliefs, but at least take the time to find them so you don't look like a moron in public.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Question (Score:3, Insightful)
A video game is not an example. It is a diversion. Daddy coming home and saying "I got stuck behind a bunch of ragheads in traffic today" is. I'm from Santa Cruz and am now in Marysville (both in California, USA) and the difference in attitudes toward foreign cultures is absolutely appalling. There's actually people younger than I am who won't go shop at the nearest gas station/food mart because it's owned by "ragheads". What the fuck year is this anyway? The point is that people's parents and peers teach them this shit, they don't learn it from a video game.
Lawyers and Ethics (Score:3, Insightful)
A lawyer is ethically required to represent his client as best he can within the bounds of the law. He should never lie, but working within loopholes is perfectly fine. They do not swear to uphold any particular morality, though, so a suitably inclined lawyer should have no professional problem with getting a murderer, tax collecter, or copyright infringer off the hook if he can do so legally. So what happens if you really don't believe your client is right? Well, most ethical and moral lawyers would ask to be removed from the case, as they would not be able to properly defend the client. A lawyer lacking morals might defend the client regardless, seeing it as just business as usual. A lawyer who is moral but not ethical might stay on the case and ultimately sabotage it, although that's tricky business as if he's ever discovered to have under-represented his client, it can become a mistrial and he'd likely be disbarred.
Of course, this also doesn't deal with that the average lawyer often has to overcome their moral objections because not every client will be innocent and the lawyer has to eat. *wry grin* Lawyers are like actors or athletes. The topmost ones rake in far too much money and most of them are just barely scarping by. Additionally, to get out of the lower ranks, you have to play the political game and if you're in a firm, refusing a case could easily rule out you going anywhere with your career.
Re:Question (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:1, Insightful)
Will someone fill me in... I've played GTA3, and there was no raping involved. You could beat a person to death, pick up a hooker, snipe cops from the roof of a building, but there was no raping.
This is all leading towards a future with virtual reality (like a holodeck from ST), but we're not going to use it for the productive and tame uses that they used it for - we're going to use it to live out our fantasies, and some people fantasize about being into organized crime, being a hitman, etc. Why do you think people watch the sopranos? It's escapism. Being able to control the action yourself is the next logical step, and it's going to move towards a totally immersive simulation.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll take a overly litigous society over one where citizens have no recourse against the weathy anyday.
I don't enjoy BS lawsuits wasting taxpayer dollars, but there are tradeoffs with everything in life.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
When a kid grows up to be a murderer it's usually something that triggered it.
Re:Jan 22, 1973 (Score:2, Insightful)
But perhaps you don't understand the concept of 'responsibility'.
If I want to play games or have an abortion, I should be able to take responsibility for my own actions. I don't care how many nuts think these actions promote murder on some abstract/metaphysical level.
Re:Americans need to get themselves straight.. (Score:3, Insightful)
You must be a cheap-labour conservative...
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
Grandparents, teachers and friends at pre-school, and Arthur are all things that are within your control. If your child's grandparents are vulgar, talk to them about being vulgar around your child. If your kid is picking up bad things from preschool - work with the teachers, or find another preschool. TV shows are up to you to turn on and off.
These years before regular school (where you have less of a choice about where they go) are very important. Your child is still fully attached to you and your spouse and wants to please you. You are laying the groundwork for how school and the world will affect your child. It starts very, very early, and I think that's what most people don't realize.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Only three men?
Praise the game maker!
Imagine what would have happened if the little bozo watched "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" or "Hitler: The Rise of Evil" instead!
How'd he do it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to be morbid, but, the game trained a kid to do all that, I'd say the POLICE need to be playing more GTA themselves.....
Guns guns and more guns (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:1, Insightful)
This is idiotic thinking from Democrats/socialists. At least that is where I keep hearing it from. Don't say any of their policies are wrong, blame someone else. Teach social intollerence at school as tollerence, teach them to rely on suing, teach them there is no God. Yea, real bright.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:2, Insightful)
It's something that Lt. Col. Dave Grossman [killology.com] calls "distance." This means simply as distance from the violent act increases, the psychological resistance to committing that violent act decreases.
For example, I used to throw Tomahawk Cruise Missiles at people. I have probably killed, or caused to be killed, hundreds of people. While I'm not really thrilled about that fact, I don't lose sleep over it. On the other hand, a friend of mine knifed a sentry in Vietnam (a "personal" kill in Grossman's words) and has nightmares about it to this day.
Now, I'm not saying that GTA or Rome: Total War is liable to cause an otherwise normal person to go on a killing spree. But GTA, due to the desensitization to the personal kill, is much more likely to push a sociopath over the edge than other games.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
You're dead wrong. (Score:3, Insightful)
Think about it. What the media wants you to know is that they caught a serial killer whose life was all fucked up because he had a hard life. The media wants a story that makes sense, that people can revel in, but not feel TOO bad about, and mostly that they can understand.
How many of the stories that have almost no explanation do you think make it to the 6 'o clock news? Very few. But there are a lot. Like I said, go spend some time in a mental institute, or at least talk to someone who has.
And just so you know, off the top of my head here are a couple examples of killers whose lives don't follow the typical media portayed serial killer "norm":
Philip Badowski: killed his parents because God told him to. No signs of abuse, and by all accounts a normal childhood. Supposedly his parents scolded him for some thing he did wrong and on the "spur of the moment" he did what God told him to do.
Lucian Staniak: One of Poland's most notorial serial killers. Had a fine childhood, although was apparently traumatized by the death of his family... still not a victim of abuse, and he was eventually found to be schizophrenic.
That's actually the most common tie to most serial killers, not any environment factors such as parents... mental disease.
I understand that you want to believe as a parent you can produce a "good" child just be being a "good" parent, but that's not always the case. Most of the time you don't have a choice if your kid has down-syndrome, or schizophrenia... these things just happen.
And just so you know, I do agree with you, parents SHOULD be accountable for their kids, especially while they're not within the age of majority, but despite that you simply can't make blanket judgements like "they didn't do everything right, or their child wouldn't have become a serial killer."
That is the statement that is simply not right.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
The computer analogy is a good one, especially if your computer is functioning correctly... what you get out is what you put in, but what if you've got a bad capacitor, or what there's a bug in the CPU that makes it spit out incorrect floating point numbers. But that could never happen right?
It can, does, and has! And what happens when it does? You get totally unpredictable results. Maybe the kid goes off and paints pictures of bunnys and vows never to wear shoes. Or maybe the kid stabs his kid bother in the eye 14 times and drinks the resulting slush through a straw.
All in all, my only point was not that we shouldn't hold parents accountable... just that we all use this "parental upbringing" as an excuse to make ourselves feel better about our world. You know "that'll never happen to me." mentality.
Well you know what, it might, and it might happen due to no fault of your own. People should be ready to face that possibility. This is part of the problem of our society, we don't account for all potentialities and in the process we continue to create a society based on something other than reality.
It's like we're writing an operating system for a certain architecture but there's this one instruction we don't like. So we just pretend it's not there. Then when the randomness of life comes along and some process actually uses that instruction we all freak out and blame the programmer.
We can't really fix the problem until we fully define it.
Re:How'd he do it? (Score:2, Insightful)
First off, when you're on your home turf, you aren't quite as attentive as you would be in on the beat.
Second, the sound of a gun going off is the sort of that that startles people. If the other two cops weren't looking at the kid when he stole the gun / shot the first cop, they probably didn't react as quickly as they needed too. They were too busy going "what the hell was that?"
I'm not saying that it would be easy, or that I'd recomend trying it (shooting police officers is a really good way to get yourself shot) but with a lot of luck and good timing, you could pull that sort of thing off.
All this said, the cops should have been paying more attention the kid.
Re:How'd he do it? (Score:4, Insightful)
1) still cuffed right up to being dragged into the booking room
2) brought into a locked garage or contained area before they open the doors to the crusier to let you out
3) (this one I can't quite remember) cops check their guns before bringing the suspect into the booking room and uncuffing them.
Those procedures are in place to minimize your chance of having a suspect jumping you, killing you, and/or getting away of which this kid seems to have done all three.
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd agree that most people don't realize this - I think a lot of the confused kids (and current and future adults) in the world can be attributed to the indescriminate bombardment of their little minds with unranked or unscreened data. This is why we're being as careful as we can about what goes into her little brain. And while I do believe that we shouldn't try to remove all reference to objectionable things, I don't think a three-year-old needs to see news footage of tsunami-strewn bodies or car-bombed markets or whatever else. There's an element of common sense that is often very easy to ignore for the comfort of hard-and-fast rules or an anything-goes mentality.
As it happens, she hasn't come home with anything objectionable from school (outside of a couple of very typical testing-her-weary-parents things she's doing) or her grandparents (outside of some fart humor from my dad that is clouding [har har] the burp humor I'm teaching her). It's just that she calls things "cool" and has picked up some other mannerisms and conversational ornaments like that.
As it pertains to this kid and the video games though (it just occurred to me that there was a reason I started yammering on about my kid), there may well be an element of lax parenting there. Or, as another poster correctly pointed out, he could have done it anyway despite any amount of good and conscientious parenting. And if the latter is the case, I'd imagine that if it hadn't been GTA, it would have been something else (news, TV, other kids, history classes, behavior at home, or something else). But that says significantly more about this kid's malleability than it does about Grand Theft Auto.
And really, sometimes bad things just happen. Now that it's done and can't be reversed, all the money and effort being spent to find someone large and sue-able to blame for a very tragic event would be better spent trying to fix an obviously broken kid and help the families of the officers he killed.
(For the record: Personally, I stopped playing Grand Theft Auto: Vice City because it creeped out my wife. But that's more along the lines of reward-based behavior modification than it is censorship. Also for the record, I hope I don't sound like the self-proclaimed perfect parent: for every thing I think I do right I do twenty things that backfire. I just hope to do it all with mindful good intentions. My wife, on the other hand, is a perfect parent.)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:3, Insightful)
> A company should be responsible for the content of the product that they're marketing.
And they assume that responsibility with massive kickbacks to the government. That's all Big Tobacco is doing now. The only reason cigarettes and cigars aren't outlawed outright is because the government is making money hand over fist on taxes.
As soon as game companies start funneling money into the IRS and padding congressmen's pockets .. well, nothing will change really. They'll just ignore all their criticism like the tobacco companies are and keep raking in the dough.
What I am waiting for are public service messages from EA and other major game companies about the hazards of video games on young impressionable minds. "Play responsibly." Angelina Jolie in Lara Croft regalia: "Remember kids, it's just a game." The day is coming ...
Re:First off... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm pissed. (Score:2, Insightful)
I've played GTA and the thing I like best about the game is that it allows me to do things I wouldnt do in realy life. Run from the police in stolen cars et al
Re:This is only half the story (Score:2, Insightful)
Wait a minute, wait a minute, WAIT A MINUTE!! Am I the only one who realises that GTA is a parody of the criminal lifestyle?? It doesn't glamorise it! In fact, GTA makes it abundantly clear that crime is not a viable solution.
It's a double-edged sword. Morons (ignorant, often violent, self-serving types) see GTA as a point for their team. Intellectual types--like myself--see GTA for what it is: a SATIRE. I love Vice City and will continue to play it long after I've beaten it (if I ever get AROUND to beating it :-).